Bad Blood Floods Thai Parliament

[lannarebirth]

If a 102 people died from electrocution, governments other than the current one are probably equally culpable. The Thais' approach to the dangers inherent in using electricity is as cavalier as it is to that of any other potentially lethal activity, and I wonder how many of those deaths were caused by indoor wires and cables being utilised outdoors.

How many of those 102 people died during the tenure of a prior government? Which government left power on in flooded areas that these 102 people died in? BTW. I expect that is a gross underestimate of electrocutions, just as I expect six hundred and something is a gross underestimation of the total deaths caused by this flood. It seems they've stopped posting the death toll a few days ago. Probably because that was contrinuting to the "bad blood" feelings that exist.

[webfact]

Thai minister survives flood censure vote

BANGKOK, November 28, 2011 (AFP) - A top Thai government minister easily survived a no confidence vote in parliament Monday as lawmakers threw out claims that official flood relief work had been plagued by corruption and mismanagement.

Justice minister Pracha Promnok, responsible for overseeing nationwide relief efforts in the wake of Thailand's worst floods in half a century, received 273 votes of support, against 188 votes in favour of the motion.

Of those present, five lawmakers abstained and 15 did not cast their votes.

Pracha emerged as one of the most visible faces of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra's fledgling government, which faced criticism for its slow response and confusing public advice about the natural disaster.

The opposition had claimed Pracha's work as director of the government's Flood Relief Operation Command was inadequate and that the state's flood aid budget and private donations had been embezzled by ruling party officials.

"The widespread floods were not only caused by nature, but also by a failure of the Flood Relief Operation Command to deal with the situation," opposition Democrat Party lawmaker Jurin Laksanavisit told parliament Sunday.

Pracha went straight into a parliamentary meeting after the vote and was not available for comment. The current parliamentary session ends on Tuesday.

Pracha had defended his record and denied the corruption allegations, telling parliament that ruling Puea Thai lawmakers had worked tirelessly to help constituents during the floods, which have left more than 600 people dead.

The government had been widely expected to win the no confidence vote.

The Puea Thai party holds 265 seats in the parliament, and has formed a coalition with five other parties, giving them an absolute majority of 300 lawmakers out of a 500-seat parliament.

Yingluck, the younger sister of fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, was a political novice before taking office in August and has at times appeared overwhelmed by the flood crisis.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-11-28

[SICHONSTEVE]

If a 102 people died from electrocution, governments other than the current one are probably equally culpable. The Thais' approach to the dangers inherent in using electricity is as cavalier as it is to that of any other potentially lethal activity, and I wonder how many of those deaths were caused by indoor wires and cables being utilised outdoors.

And just what control has the government got on how someone with 'no money to talk about' wires up their ramshackle shed of a home in the middle of the forest or in the slums on the outskirts of Bangkok????

Get REAL please and don't bore us with your stupid remarks and rediculous thiinking!!!.

What do expect??? The government to have a task force tour the country examining every single connected cable in Thailand!!!

Everybody knows what would happen - "slip us 300 baht and I'll deem your "deathtrap of a home as being all ship-shape and proper gov, OK"??? Yet another corrupt "mafia body" to contend with and there's more than enough of those in the LOTF!!!

[Soutpeel]

"In other words, Pracha alleged that the Democrat government knew it was going to lose the July 3 election and knew about coming storms, so it let the dams be filled up to sabotage the Yingluck administration"

and to spice things up a bit lets throw in some tin foil hat/conspiracy stuff as well

[rubl]

The PM is the one in charge. Everything leads back to her. She is responsible for selecting her cabinet and enacting decisions. End of story. For HER failure during this flood debacle, she should at least express her apologies by shaving her head. But to really accept the consequences of her actions, she and her ministers should follow the time honored examples of the past and do the "honorable thing".

Transfer herself to an 'inactive position'?

Isn't she in one now?

I haven't watch the show, didn't want to get my Sunday spoiled. So, please excuse this question: "was the PM present during the censure debat?"

[AleG]

"In other words, Pracha alleged that the Democrat government knew it was going to lose the July 3 election and knew about coming storms, so it let the dams be filled up to sabotage the Yingluck administration"

and to spice things up a bit lets throw in some tin foil hat/conspiracy stuff as well

So the Democrats foresaw three mayor storms hitting Thailand two or three months in advance and planned to use them to flood the country and blame the PTP government for the catastrophe, the government that seemed to be at a loss to foresee the flooding situation from one week to the next.

You know, that may make look the Democrats look devious, but they sure are a hell of a lot better at foreseeing things!

[CockneyGit]

Yingluck, the younger sister of fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, was a political novice before taking office in August and has at times appeared overwhelmed by the flood crisis.

Classic quote..!!

"Has at times appeared overwhelmed....."

"Totally inept" would be a more accurate interpretation..!!

[lannarebirth]

"In other words, Pracha alleged that the Democrat government knew it was going to lose the July 3 election and knew about coming storms, so it let the dams be filled up to sabotage the Yingluck administration"

and to spice things up a bit lets throw in some tin foil hat/conspiracy stuff as well

So the Democrats foresaw three mayor storms hitting Thailand two or three months in advance and planned to use them to flood the country and blame the PTP government for the catastrophe, the government that seemed to be at a loss to foresee the flooding situation from one week to the next.

You know, that may make look the Democrats look devious, but they sure are a hell of a lot better at foreseeing things!

And being so prescient about the certainty of future rainfallls I guess that also answers the question as to whether they would have done a better job managing the flood. Of course they would have, as confirmed by Pracha.

Edited November 28, 2011 by lannarebirth

[webfact]

POLITICS

Yingluck says no cabinet reshuffle

The Nation

Photo : Pramote Putthaisong

Justice Minister Pracha survived censure debate

There has been no discussion as yet about a cabinet reshuffle following the censure debate against Justice Minister Pol Gen Pracha Promonk, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said Monday.

Pracha, the director of Flood Relief Operations Center, survived the no confidence debate with 273 of the coalition voting in support of him and 188 from the opposition voting against. Five abstained and 15 others MPs did not vote, even though they were present at Monday's meeting.

Yingluck told reporters that no cabinet reshuffle had been discussed, as the opposition had failed to show any new evidence or information against Pracha.

The opposition accused Pracha of failing on several major counts in relation to the floods including management ability, honesty and public relations.

The censure debate was held on Sunday and the vote was held Monday.

Opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said while Pracha had survived and Yingluck was apparently not reshuffling the cabinet, he believed the opposition's move had not been wasteful.

"The mismanagement and the conflicts are still there. If the premier did not do anything about the matter, then this has to be her responsibility. Our debate is not wasteful because we presented the facts," he said.

The debate was disrupted by repeated protests from the government's side, which consumed the time available for the opposition, he said.

Abhisit said Pracha did not clarify the allegations against him; on the contrary his statement caused more confusion.

Abhisit also referred to Pheu Thai MP Jirayu Huangsab who claimed in the Parliament that he wrote his name on the boats and mobile toilets donated from a foreign country to facilitate their return. However, the opposition believed that the writing was aimed at conning the public into believing that the boats were from him.

Abhisit said Jirayu's name would not be necessary as the boats and the toilets already had the numbers on them.

-- The Nation 2011-11-28

[webfact]

Chuwit says Democrats narrow-minded in censure debate

The Nation

Rak Prathethai Party leader Chuwit Kamolvisit said Monday that the Democrat Party was narrow-minded for not allocating time to other opposition parties to join the censure debate against Justice Minister Pracha Promnok.

Chuwit said Matubhum Party leader Gen Sonthi Boonyaratglin and Rak Santi party-list MP Purachai Piumsombun abstained in the vote of no-confidence because the Democrat did not give them time to speak during the debate.

Chuwit said he joined the Democrat in casting a no-confidence vote against Pracha because he was broadminded enough.

Chuwit said he could have delivered severer attacks against Pracha had the Democrat allocated just 15 to 20 minutes to him to speak during the censure showdown.

-- The Nation 2011-11-28

[whybother]

Rak Prathethai Party leader Chuwit Kamolvisit said Monday that the Democrat Party was narrow-minded for not allocating time to other opposition parties to join the censure debate against Justice Minister Pracha Promnok.

Did anyone else besides the Democrats sign the censure request?

[whybother]

Jatuporn to file lawsuit against 154 Democrat MPs

Pheu Thai MP and red shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan Monday said he would take legal action against the 154 Democrat MPs who supported the recent censure motion against Justice Minister Pracha Promnok that also accused Jatuporn of involvement in irregularities.

Jatuporn said that later this week he would file his complaint with the Crime Suppression Division against the Democrat MPs including party and opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva for allegedly filing false information and defamation. He would also file a civil case but that he had not made up his mind about the amount of damages he would request.

The outspoken politician said that the Democrat MPs unfairly accused him during Sunday's censure debate.

"The Democrats were not well prepared for the censure debate. They made false allegations against me. I am not a Cabinet member but I was accused of corruption and embezzlement," Jatuporn said.

-- The Nation 2011-11-28

[whybother]

"... They made false allegations against me. I am not a Cabinet member but I was accused of corruption and embezzlement," Jatuporn said.

Is he saying that only Cabinet members are involved in corruption and embezzlement?

[KKvampire]

Yingluck does as shes told , The face to pull the wool over the Thai eyes in the election and now the puppet of the experienced PTP behind her soon to be infront of her, She's a complete novice at politics and she will be in tears for worse than flooding before she goes, Then the thugs will get who they really want as PM,

Jatuporn going to court ? If the courts were up to upholding the law he would have been filing lawsuit from a cell.

Edited November 28, 2011 by KKvampire

[anterian]

Leaving aside the politics, which are predictable and so boring. I was intrigued by this comment, " at least 102 people had died from electrocution in the flooding due to the government's grave negligence in failing to prevent such accidents.".

I will be very interested to hear how a government can, or could, prevent this. Until such time as RCCB units become compulsory in Thailand people will continue to get electrocuted in showers, swimming pools or anywhere that has been wired by a Thai electrician.

[whybother]

Leaving aside the politics, which are predictable and so boring. I was intrigued by this comment, " at least 102 people had died from electrocution in the flooding due to the government's grave negligence in failing to prevent such accidents.".

I will be very interested to hear how a government can, or could, prevent this. Until such time as RCCB units become compulsory in Thailand people will continue to get electrocuted in showers, swimming pools or anywhere that has been wired by a Thai electrician.

One way this could be done is by cutting off electricity to a flooded area. I don't think that would be feasible, because it could be denying electricity to people who either aren't flooded or have set themselves up to avoid electrocution. Cutting of electricity would also want to be done to only small areas, which would also make it difficult to manage.

Of course, announcements / information to tell people what to avoid doing could help ... but I don't think a lot of people would listen anyway.

[anterian]

Leaving aside the politics, which are predictable and so boring. I was intrigued by this comment, " at least 102 people had died from electrocution in the flooding due to the government's grave negligence in failing to prevent such accidents.".

I will be very interested to hear how a government can, or could, prevent this. Until such time as RCCB units become compulsory in Thailand people will continue to get electrocuted in showers, swimming pools or anywhere that has been wired by a Thai electrician.

One way this could be done is by cutting off electricity to a flooded area. I don't think that would be feasible, because it could be denying electricity to people who either aren't flooded or have set themselves up to avoid electrocution. Cutting of electricity would also want to be done to only small areas, which would also make it difficult to manage.

Of course, announcements / information to tell people what to avoid doing could help ... but I don't think a lot of people would listen anyway.

Cutting of electricity is normally up to the service company, not the government. At least it is in Britain. Equally, and as you point out, I have been flooded for 4 weeks and would have found it difficult to survive without electricity, not just lights but the fridge and one aircon (2 aircons were submerged). Perhaps even more important was communications, even mobile phones need charging.

Thais have a totally cavalier attitude to electricity, I have never understood why more Thais don't get electrocuted. But this is Thailand, where arc welders wear sunglasses, builders mix concrete by paddling in it with bare feet, and people eat fish from polluted canals, ride motorbikes without helmets, etc, etc.

[yoshiwara]

Chuwit says Democrats narrow-minded in censure debate

The Nation

Rak Prathethai Party leader Chuwit Kamolvisit said Monday that the Democrat Party was narrow-minded for not allocating time to other opposition parties to join the censure debate against Justice Minister Pracha Promnok.

Chuwit said Matubhum Party leader Gen Sonthi Boonyaratglin and Rak Santi party-list MP Purachai Piumsombun abstained in the vote of no-confidence because the Democrat did not give them time to speak during the debate.

Chuwit said he joined the Democrat in casting a no-confidence vote against Pracha because he was broadminded enough.

Chuwit said he could have delivered severer attacks against Pracha had the Democrat allocated just 15 to 20 minutes to him to speak during the censure showdown.

-- The Nation 2011-11-28

It would have been good to hear something from Chuwit.

[thaikahuna]

The PM is in charge..... REALLY? IT looks more like the BKK governor running the show. None of them has a bloody damned clue how to take care of business except the lining of their own pockets....just like politicians everywhere. No brains, no clues and most of all no cares about their countrymen and women.

[scorecard]

The PM is the one in charge. Everything leads back to her. She is responsible for selecting her cabinet and enacting decisions. End of story. For HER failure during this flood debacle, she should at least express her apologies by shaving her head. But to really accept the consequences of her actions, she and her ministers should follow the time honored examples of the past and do the "honorable thing".

she didn't select the cabinet.

That's very likely true.

But she didn't reject the line up gievn from afar. She could have, she didn't.

[expat4life]

she didn't select the cabinet.

Maybe not , but it is the PM that appoints the cabinet. So if someone else selected them and she approved , she deserves her fair share of shame and quilt .

Edited November 28, 2011 by expat4life

[whybother]

Cutting of electricity is normally up to the service company, not the government. At least it is in Britain. Equally, and as you point out, I have been flooded for 4 weeks and would have found it difficult to survive without electricity, not just lights but the fridge and one aircon (2 aircons were submerged). Perhaps even more important was communications, even mobile phones need charging.

Thais have a totally cavalier attitude to electricity, I have never understood why more Thais don't get electrocuted. But this is Thailand, where arc welders wear sunglasses, builders mix concrete by paddling in it with bare feet, and people eat fish from polluted canals, ride motorbikes without helmets, etc, etc.

Normally it would be up to the service company, but I'm sure it's something that could be ordered by the government if necessary.

But I don't think it's feasible for the reasons you give, and it probably wouldn't make a difference to the number of deaths - instead of electrocution, the deaths would be by asphyxiation.

[theanimaster]

This is why every parliament/government fails. If it were up to people, Pracha would be quartered, drawn and relocated to the 4 corners of Thailand. We're living in the Information Age goddamnit... governments the world over need to change. People need to be in charge, not scumbag politicians.

[Ricardo]

If it were up to people, Pracha would be quartered, drawn and relocated to the 4 corners of Thailand.

Is that what the slogan 'Red Across the Land' referred to ?!

[ThaiOats]

I feel as if the foreigners on here are like jury members (without any power to cast a verdict) but still, the majority would have started off as neutral. The prosecutors are the Democrats and the PTP, trying to convince them that the other side is wrong. Then it's up to them to start reading up on the history of Thailand and draw up their own conclusions about what's going on. From the consensus, it seems there are a lot more AGAINST this particular government (and Thaksin) than for. Why is it that the foreigners are more compelled to voice their opinion against this government? Anyone can choose to go read Robert Amsterdam's blog or Red Affiliated media but instead, prefer to stick to the Nation.