Crackdown On Alcohol On Retail Display

[jaideeguy]

Having lived here for 10+ yrs allows me to make the following statement that may 'piss off' the 'pissed'.

let's face it......Thailand does have an alcohol problem!~! and most [that i have met] expats as well. i can say this as an xperienced bar man that has settled down and can now look at the 'scene' with different eyes. i had my fun and don't regret it, but it does make me a little ashamed to see falangs making asses out of theirselves and it makes me feel sorry for all the insanity that goes with alcohol abuse with the thais as well. drunk driving, fights, stupidity, boredom and general bad behavoir.

so, i am in favor of any measures that will seriously reduce alcohol abuse. I'm not sure if these token measures will have any effect as the thais will always be able to find a drink around any corner. TIT [for better and worse]!!!

MODERATION is the only solution, but that is contrary to the Thai culture [as well as the expat [drinking] culture].

my 2 bhatt!!!

[marquess]

Having lived here for 10+ yrs allows me to make the following statement that may 'piss off' the 'pissed'. 

let's face it......Thailand does have an alcohol problem!~! and most [that i have met] expats as well.  i can say this as an xperienced bar man that has settled down and can now look at the 'scene' with different eyes.  i had my fun and don't regret it, but it does make me a little ashamed to see falangs making asses out of theirselves and it makes me feel sorry for all the insanity that goes with alcohol abuse with the thais as well.  drunk driving, fights, stupidity, boredom and general bad behavoir. 

so, i am in favor of any measures that will seriously reduce alcohol abuse.  I'm not sure if these token measures will have any effect as the thais will always be able to find a drink around any corner. TIT [for better and worse]!!!

MODERATION is the only solution, but that is contrary to the Thai culture [as well as the expat [drinking] culture].

my 2 bhatt!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have always drunk in moderation, and have rarely been drunk. However I would not like to force other s to do as I do. For everyone should have the freedom of choice. Education, as to the dangers of excess consumption of alcohol is the only way forward.

[britmaveric]

Simple - if you are drunken/disorderly - you get arrested/heavily fined. Personal choice is to act responsible and if you don't then you end up in jail and out of pocket. This concept seems to be foreign to the lawmakers.

[RamTodatry]

Here is something that I ran into from the BBC. I have just repoduced a small section of the news item that I read, and not the entire article.

----------------------------------

Sweden is due to launch an advertising campaign to try to convince the EU that Scandinavia's restrictive alcohol policies produce health benefits.

Sweden's state-controlled alcohol retail system is at odds with EU free trade rules.

Sales are restricted by its alcohol retail monopoly - a system of shops with shorter opening hours and higher prices than in most other EU countries.

As a result, alcohol consumption in Sweden is relatively low.

Anyone buying alcohol in Sweden must be prepared to plan ahead and spend a lot of money.

----------------------------------

If you are interested in the entire article, go to the link below:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4458622.stm

[Upcountry]

Well, it may be "their country", but for some of us, powerless though we are, it's where we live.

I recently wished that they would close liquor sales outlets on Sunday instead of in the middle of the day. I hate stopping in at Big C and finding out that it's after 2pm, so I have to wait till another day to get something I want. But now I still get that problem, plus having to remember what day it is! I don't care if it's beer or soap or lettuce. I'm not addicted to any of them (except may be soap )

My home state in the US had 'blue laws' that prevented alcohol sales on Sunday, etc. It was annoying having to plan ahead. So, for me, these restrictions are a real pain. I'd like to believe that they would help, but it doesn't seem clear that it will.

I still think an education campaign to make things like public drunkenness, driving on the wrong side of the road and burning everything everywhere unacceptable, would be better. But who knows, maybe government laws like this a regarded in Thai culture in the same light as NGOs like MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) in the US. I mean, maybe in this culture a law to curb drinking hours has some moral authority.

Now, hiding the stuff: How will Big C and Lotus, etc., do that? Build walls, I guess. And pass the cost on to you and me.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Upcountry

[Roger_JG]

Now, hiding the stuff: How will Big C and Lotus, etc., do that? Build walls, I guess.    And pass the cost on to you and me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's very simple... like they do in the UK before 11AM in the mornig and after 10:30PM or in Morocco during religious holidays and festival:

Just put down a curtain over the shelfves....

~R

[astral]

I am glad I now live in a partly Muslim country.

Here I can buy booze any day, and it is cheaper than Thailand.

No joking!!

[Canadianvisitor]

Well, I guess this is an effort to encourage people to do other things.

I wonder what the black market will do.

Maybe some structure will help people respect Thailand a little bit more.

I myself drink a lot, selfishly I was opposed to the first "crackdown", but I wonder now what effect this law will have.

What about wine with dinner at a restaurant?

I don't know, I hope this law is for the better.

The muslims seem to have stopped bombing all of a sudden.

I love Thai people it is after all why I love Thailand.

If this law helps them enjoy a better quality of life so be it.

Full moon on a Sunday will be interesting.

Ah, well I hope there is a good reason and a good result.

[pschef]

[

Do you think any thais actually take any notice of all these daft ideas? I have spoken to many thais about them and they see only us farangs as being concerned. They all just smile and say they will still be able to get access to alcohol 16 or 17 hours a day just as they do now. They just seem to be used to not taking any notice of any laws which affect them financially. The age old profession being a prime example

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No need to say any thing just go round to the local shop, ask for a bag any time of day. Mye pen rai

[jrincon17]

What's next, banning condom displays because they might encourage underage sex?

Do they actually employ people to think up thse wacky things!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think he was talking to Bush about these things . sounds like alot of states in the u.s. not the populated ones but some of them

[jaideeguy]

Having lived here for 10+ yrs allows me to make the following statement that may 'piss off' the 'pissed'. 

let's face it......Thailand does have an alcohol problem!~! and most [that i have met] expats as well.  i can say this as an xperienced bar man that has settled down and can now look at the 'scene' with different eyes.  i had my fun and don't regret it, but it does make me a little ashamed to see falangs making asses out of theirselves and it makes me feel sorry for all the insanity that goes with alcohol abuse with the thais as well.  drunk driving, fights, stupidity, boredom and general bad behavoir. 

so, i am in favor of any measures that will seriously reduce alcohol abuse.  I'm not sure if these token measures will have any effect as the thais will always be able to find a drink around any corner. TIT [for better and worse]!!!

MODERATION is the only solution, but that is contrary to the Thai culture [as well as the expat [drinking] culture].

my 2 bhatt!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have always drunk in moderation, and have rarely been drunk. However I would not like to force other s to do as I do. For everyone should have the freedom of choice. Education, as to the dangers of excess consumption of alcohol is the only way forward.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't agree with you more marquess, but where and who does the educating?? drunk expats are already educated and most thais get their education in the baan or on tv, where excessive drinking is tolerated. Moderation is the key!!

[bogart_sci]

Will the last person to leave please turn the lights out

Just what are the politicians trying to do to what was such a wonderfull country to live in.

It does not affect me as i am not a heavy drinker but i am not sure about the tourist trade, with Vietnam opening to more and more tourists it seems that the powers that be are on self destruct.

Mike.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am quite new to Thailand, but as everybody does, fell in love with the place on my first visit in the summer. i will be back at Christmas for 3 weeks.

On the otherhand, i am getting quite upset with all the new laws that seem to be getting passed by Thaxin. He seems to be taking the fun out of Thailand.

Anyway, in relation to the previous quote, i will be trying out Vietnam in the summer for a couple of weeks, then a last week in Thailand. It's begining to sound like a better option?

[BlackJack]

i can remember my dad being at the pub in OZ many years ago when 6pm closing was the go

On the last drinks call all the punters simply bought six more drinks

and over the next hour drank them

there was also no trading liquer on Sundays however most found a way to buy and consume liquer

the above goes to show that making things controled may result in binge drinking and breaking the law

So be it - breaking the law in LOS is more like sport for locals

[robsamui]

Let's register SIMM cards to stop terrorist bombings.

Let's close the gas stations after midnight so less petrol is used.

Let's make people watch less TV. Saves on fuel.

Let's hide the cigs so people will forget to buy them.

Let's ban alcohol on...erm...I know! Sundays! Less drunks and road accidents. Oh, and while we're at it, hide the booze so that less people will think of buying it.

Toy Town and Looney Tunes, or what.

My feeling is that some members of the administration are bonused per idea.

Not per good idea or useful idea. Just per idea.

What's the betting that they'll change their mind again next week, like they did with the cigs.

The Bush circus can sometimes look quite good.....

R

[britmaveric]

Should go 24/7 that has proven to keep things in order.

[Estrada]

Ther's going to be rioting on the streets over this one

Thursday's meeting in Lumpini is sure to mention this idea

Taksin's just provided the nails for his political coffin (even if he didn't dream up the idea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you think any thais actually take any notice of all these daft ideas? I have spoken to many thais about them and they see only us farangs as being concerned. They all just smile and say they will still be able to get access to alcohol 16 or 17 hours a day just as they do now. They just seem to be used to not taking any notice of any laws which affect them financially. The age old profession being a prime example

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's easy to dismiss new laws as having no effect. But look around you, actually they do make a big difference. Not overnight, but over months and years.

E.g. beer bars... do you notice that girls no longer dance around the pole on the bar? No totally naked girls in gogo bars? Sex shows? what sex shows?

Yes, it is possible to find exceptions to this, but there is no doubt that the scene has changed a lot.

Prostitution? of course it has not disappeared. Has it changed? definitely. Sometimes for the good - e.g. it's obviously less child prostitution now than before, even though it has not been completely wiped out.

Upmarket discos... they actually stop serving alcohol at 2am now. Not never, or when the last customer goes home. Things have changed.

Drugs? it is in fact more difficult to get recreational drugs in discos/clubs now than before. they actually do hold piss tests once in a while, frequently enough to discourage most people. not everyone is discouraged, but there is a clear difference to before. Things have changed.

The old ladies may still be selling beer from their coolers on the streetcorners all night long, but there is no doubt that all these laws slowly does change the entertainment scene in thailand.

Is it irreversible? I don't think so. We can see how in Europe countries change alcohol and licensing regulations back and forth, not just back.

-NM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, already back to normal in the bars, Girls dancing round poles naked and doing shows. Only thing missing at the moment are the live goldfish and budgies.

Been coming here since 1982, nothing really changes. The tightening up of the Laws are just to apply pressure to the Business Owners to pay the Police more undertable money. At the Politicians level they threaten to bring in these changes in the Law to be paid by the Businesses to drop their proposed changes in the Law.

Nothing here is what it seems, we say here that the Thais have a "Different Agenda". That is they are not concerend about changing the Law for the benefit of the People, but to gain Benefit in the form of cash payments to drop or ammend their proposed Laws.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Estrada

[jantrevor]

The proposal is for RETAIL sale, not pub drinks.

The question is can I buy a bottle of beer or whisky in the bar and then take it home?

[Guest fj2003]

two days ago at 1am and 2 am and 3 am and 4 am i went into a 7/11 and i got each time two bottles of beer

within 45 sec i was out off 7/11 include paying

happen 10 min walking away of khao san rd

my 7/11 in my soi

absolut thai area in non

will not sell me a bottle of beer 5 past 12 even they know i don t drive here and i will just walk 70 m back home

also was a brunch here in non first been visit by police

because of the cigaretes story and accused and claimed with 200 000 baht

but u are right all thai are just smiling and saying mai pen rai

just buy a chase 5 to 12 then you have beer the night long and get the ice at 7/11

they are happy because gov is doing something for the kids and this is important

and the alcoholics here around they get their lao khao at mamas and papaps shop always since they are alcos

so the stupid farang has onjly the problem because hwe does not know how to deal that

get rip of this always drunken tourist at papong nana pattaya phuket and where else they come together only for two reason _ girls and beer_ and the gov gets two bulls with one dart

family tourist and no stress with drunken extourist anymore and more and the same time no bargirls any more

but 30 % of national business and income is then gone also

get the country clean to be a first world member and to claim firstworld prices with same profit but less stress for all

[Guest fj2003]

btw it is not everythink only by mr T many want to show nowthat they are doing something even they don t know what they are doing like watana : police has to light in everyone eye who enter a hotel at loy khathong night

[britmaveric]

two days ago at 1am and 2 am and 3 am and 4 am i went into a 7/11 and i got each time two bottles of beer

within 45 sec i was out off 7/11 include paying

happen 10 min walking away of khao san rd

my 7/11 in my soi

absolut thai area in non

will not sell me a bottle of beer 5 past 12 even they know i don t drive here and i will just walk 70 m back home

also was a brunch here in non first been visit by police

because of the cigaretes story and accused and claimed with 200 000 baht

but u are right all thai are just smiling and saying mai pen rai

just buy a chase 5 to 12 then you have beer the night  long and get the ice at 7/11

they are happy because gov is doing something for the kids and this is important

and the alcoholics here around they get their lao khao at mamas and papaps shop always since they are alcos

so the stupid farang has onjly the problem because hwe does not know how to deal that

get rip of this always drunken tourist at papong nana pattaya phuket and where else they come together only for two reason _ girls and beer_  and the gov gets two bulls with one dart

family tourist and no stress with drunken extourist anymore and more and the same time no bargirls any more

but 30 % of national business and income is then gone also

get the country clean to be a first world member and to claim firstworld prices with same profit but less stress for all

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

baba bobo!

[Ajarn_Jonesy]

Public Health Ministry plans to remove alcoholic beverage from retail display shelves

(A draft law to control the consumption of alcoholic drinks has just been completed)

DRAFT being the operative word....

Wonder how many they had before coming up with this silly idea!

[opothai]

i really do not see the point of these idiotic laws

the thai's that i am aquainted with mainly from korat, most work, and when they do work it is six days a week.

no drinks on holidays and sunday's is not going to be popular with the natives let alone the tourists.

f+ck++g idiots

i wonder do these numpties realise what will bacome of thier country when in two or three years time thier will be less of the famous thai smiles as every body will become bloody miserable.

[re_fuse]

Why not they ban the truth from Newspapers

[jayenram]

........... severe enforcement of the highway code ............

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now who might have a copy of this, may I ask?

[jayenram]

From what I've read on this thread, it appears that the law is intended to restrict alcohol sales from retail outlets only and not bars, etc.

As I buy my 'in house' beer wholesale and all other alcohol purchases are from bars, etc., I fail to see how it will affect me.

[Terminator]

One thing is amazing that over 5600 people have looked at this post, this must mean that after fluffy, alcohol plays an important part in peoples lives.

Its like drugs, all you do is, is driving it underground during restriction times.

So if you want alcohol the hard-core desperado's will find or steal it!

[mike uk]

tuktukmike after gary g episode in v/nam i am not sure it is a good idea to go thre. might get tarred with the same brush

[lomatopo]

Here is something that I ran into from the BBC. I have just repoduced a small section of the news item that I read, and not the entire article.

----------------------------------

Sweden is due to launch an advertising campaign to try to convince the EU that Scandinavia's restrictive alcohol policies produce health benefits.

Sweden's state-controlled alcohol retail system is at odds with EU free trade rules.

Sales are restricted by its alcohol retail monopoly - a system of shops with shorter opening hours and higher prices than in most other EU countries.

As a result, alcohol consumption in Sweden is relatively low.

Anyone buying alcohol in Sweden must be prepared to plan ahead and spend a lot of money.

----------------------------------

If you are interested in the entire article, go to the link below:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4458622.stm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Finland have a similar arrangement of government run (or authorized, I could nver figure it out even after 30 trips there) liquor stores, coupled with extremely high prices and/or taxes. I think alcohol used to cause a lot of public health problems there, but things seem to have improved greatly. It just goes to show that, despite the general opinion here to the contrary, a government can successfully address the public health issues caused by alcohol, and even tobacco.

Education, especially when started early, in the home, school, temple, on TV, radio, internet, in advertising, can have a positive effect.

One clearly successful method of modifying behavior is to provide either an incentive to reduce or cease smoking or drinking or a disincentive for those who cannot otherwise control their urges and addictions.

Incentives are definitely more difficult to implement but can take the form of reduced health insurance/life insurance costs for those who do not smoke, or drink to excess. There are even some programs that offer rewards for people who continue to no smoke. Obviously these require the "honor method". Lower auto insurance premiums are an incentive to not get in an accident, which seems likely to occur after drinking.

Disincentives are obviously quite easy to imlement. I should note that banning the sale of alcohol on a certain day, or even at certain times of the day, while certainly a disincentive, probably has little effect on overall consumption as has been pointed out here by many posters. People either stock up, go to a bar, or get their fix from some other source. (Note that an alcoholic never complains about these sorts of restrictions, we always plan ahead and have a stash or seven nearby and handy.)

Many believe that banning advertising of alcohol and tobacco is probably a good thing. These ads are obviously targeted at impressionable, younger (under-age for tobacco and alcohol) people who are just making their life's brand decisions. People who are already smoking and drinking are already aware of the brands/products so don't need further exposure.

Other disincentives have been mentioned here, enforcing, existing laws, be they motor vehicle or public drunkeness, by prosecution and heavy fines or incarceration can quickly modify behavior.

One major disincentive is to raise the price, and associated taxes, on both tobacco and alcohol. Others can debate the usages for this increased revenue; education, health care, breathalyzer equipment, whatever. Just recently there was an increase in the base alcohol tax rate here in Thailand, and the brewers here noticed an almost immediate flattening or slight decrease in sales (obviously), and of course their response was to increase their marketing (advertising) budgets.

It is a proven fact that people will reduce consumption, be it gasoline, tobacco, alcohol or Bordeaux, as the price increases. Yes, a few may turn to alternative souces to satisfy their needs, but the overall effect on society is a positve one.

Many people who post here on TV seem to have a strong negative opinion about

the capability of the Thai people and government to manage the affairs of their own country. In our desire to want the best for them we let our western experiences color our opinions. We think we know what is best, what works, what doesn't work, but in the end, unless we become citizens or otherwise become officially engaged in N/GO, our opinions, thoughts and experiences count for very little. Thailand has the opportunity to see how other countries address their own alcohol and tobacco-related public health issues, (many Thais have had the experience of medical or porfessional training in other countries,) and can implement those solutions best suited for their own citizens.

[Insight]

Why not they ban the truth from Newspapers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Already on the agenda...

[Rumpole]

Education, as to the dangers of excess consumption of alcohol is the only way forward. [/i]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately, education is another thing the Thais are not particularly good at.

Edited November 23, 2005 by Rumpole