Thai Police To Question Ex-Pm Over Protest Deaths

[DP25]

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

A lot more. The first time near Khao San when they tried that dozens of soldiers were shot by the protestors and their commander killed, the army repulsed, and their trucks captured. The entire red strategy was to provoke a blood bath, hoping that it would force an immediate collapse of the government. If launching grenades at the sky train and lobbing bombs at crowds of counter protestors didn't do the trick they would have continued to kill larger numbers of people until the army was forced to act.

As it happens their immediate strategy of bloodbath forcing a collapse of the government didn't work. But a year of unrelenting lies and propaganda about what happened did help in the election

[ThaiOats]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

The government of most countries use lethal force against criminals every day. Sometimes those associating with the criminals get caught in the cross fire and sometimes innocents do too.

Correct.

I do however agree with philw that the truth be found and be established. Which I suspect is that in some cases the Army did make some errors. Of course the others who need to be questioned for their major roles for leading, funding and enciting the terror and what could be called a civil war should also be hauled in by the police for questioning for the numbers of deaths they are responsible for. But then the convicted crim responsible for the whole mess is absent due to a lack of manhood.

That's something you'll never hear from philw, phiphidon, tlansford, scotbeve, geriatrickid and the other usual suspects. According to them, Abhisit's government were the only one wrong and the Reds were never wrong and should never be held accountable for any mayhem they have caused. They just focus on the deaths at the protest and ignore everything else including why in the beginning the Army were NOT using live rounds so why did they feel the need to? Simple. It's because the Red shirts were using weapons, causing deaths and injury to other human beings. Had they continue to hide behind "oh, we're civilians, they can't do anything to us", more would've joined the fray and MORE people would have died.

You want Abhisit's government held accountable you must also hold the Red Shirt leaders and Thaksin accountable for propelling the riots. Fair is fair but fairness cannot be achieved when one of the main culprit is hiding in Dubai. You'd never hear any of the Red shirt supporters calling for Thaksin to come back and face his trials like a man.. they'll just make excuses. Same ole, same ole.

[yoshiwara]

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

A lot more. The first time near Khao San when they tried that dozens of soldiers were shot by the protestors and their commander killed, the army repulsed, and their trucks captured. The entire red strategy was to provoke a blood bath, hoping that it would force an immediate collapse of the government. If launching grenades at the sky train and lobbing bombs at crowds of counter protestors didn't do the trick they would have continued to kill larger numbers of people until the army was forced to act.

As it happens their immediate strategy of bloodbath forcing a collapse of the government didn't work. But a year of unrelenting lies and propaganda about what happened did help in the election

[MrChangers]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

The government of most countries use lethal force against criminals every day. Sometimes those associating with the criminals get caught in the cross fire and sometimes innocents do too.

Correct.

I do however agree with philw that the truth be found and be established. Which I suspect is that in some cases the Army did make some errors. Of course the others who need to be questioned for their major roles for leading, funding and enciting the terror and what could be called a civil war should also be hauled in by the police for questioning for the numbers of deaths they are responsible for. But then the convicted crim responsible for the whole mess is absent due to a lack of manhood.

That's something you'll never hear from philw, phiphidon, tlansford, scotbeve, geriatrickid and the other usual suspects. According to them, Abhisit's government were the only one wrong and the Reds were never wrong and should never be held accountable for any mayhem they have caused. They just focus on the deaths at the protest and ignore everything else including why in the beginning the Army were NOT using live rounds so why did they feel the need to? Simple. It's because the Red shirts were using weapons, causing deaths and injury to other human beings. Had they continue to hide behind "oh, we're civilians, they can't do anything to us", more would've joined the fray and MORE people would have died.

You want Abhisit's government held accountable you must also hold the Red Shirt leaders and Thaksin accountable for propelling the riots. Fair is fair but fairness cannot be achieved when one of the main culprit is hiding in Dubai. You'd never hear any of the Red shirt supporters calling for Thaksin to come back and face his trials like a man.. they'll just make excuses. Same ole, same ole.

waffle waffle waffle sounds like the old US 50's crap about commies under the bed. Get real boys

[BigBikeBKK]

Are the police in charge of this "investigation" the same police who DISAPPEARED from Bangkok during the terrorist armed occupation of the capital by armed and violent arsonist Red Shirt thugs?

Politics as usual- is it any surprise this investigation is launched mere weeks after fugitive criminal Thaksin directs his Yingluck "clone" to appoint his brother-in-law to the position of National Police Chief?

TiT- will this nonsense ever end?!?! :jap:

[Babcock]

And you watch the video above claim it was the redshirts what had snipers shooting other redshirts. Well spotted Watson. There were snipers in the school.

Really the soldiers were "unarmed" and then they were "armed". 1000 people were injured that night as well as 19 deaths.

Crowd control late at night hardly.

The orders were given to drive the redshirts out but they failed.

[Buchholz]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

The government of most countries use lethal force against criminals every day. Sometimes those associating with the criminals get caught in the cross fire and sometimes innocents do too.

Correct.

I do however agree with philw that the truth be found and be established. Which I suspect is that in some cases the Army did make some errors. Of course the others who need to be questioned for their major roles for leading, funding and enciting the terror and what could be called a civil war should also be hauled in by the police for questioning for the numbers of deaths they are responsible for. But then the convicted crim responsible for the whole mess is absent due to a lack of manhood.

That's something you'll never hear from philw, phiphidon, tlansford, scotbeve, geriatrickid and the other usual suspects. According to them, Abhisit's government were the only one wrong and the Reds were never wrong and should never be held accountable for any mayhem they have caused. They just focus on the deaths at the protest and ignore everything else including why in the beginning the Army were NOT using live rounds so why did they feel the need to? Simple. It's because the Red shirts were using weapons, causing deaths and injury to other human beings. Had they continue to hide behind "oh, we're civilians, they can't do anything to us", more would've joined the fray and MORE people would have died.

You want Abhisit's government held accountable you must also hold the Red Shirt leaders and Thaksin accountable for propelling the riots. Fair is fair but fairness cannot be achieved when one of the main culprit is hiding in Dubai. You'd never hear any of the Red shirt supporters calling for Thaksin to come back and face his trials like a man.. they'll just make excuses. Same ole, same ole.

+ 1

.

[rubl]

It's good the police asked k. Abhisit and k. Suthep to drop by to answers a few questions. No doubt the two gentlemen will comply. I assume the statements of some other worthy gentlemen, like k. Jatuporn, k. Nattawut, Dr. weng, et at have been taken already?

In this case, which will see a (Pheu Thai) MP travel all the way to The Hague, the Netherlands to inquire about the case filed with the ICC on the 31st of January this year, anyone involved should, will and must tell their side of the story. Two foreign reporters killed, 91 death in total! We, the people, democracy minded, etc., etc., we have a right to know.

BTW those this include those killed by grenade lobbing fanatics, grenades which just by pure chance (of course) seemed to only targeted non-red-shirts?

[Buchholz]

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

A lot more. The first time near Khao San when they tried that dozens of soldiers were shot by the protestors and their commander killed, the army repulsed, and their trucks captured. The entire red strategy was to provoke a blood bath, hoping that it would force an immediate collapse of the government. If launching grenades at the sky train and lobbing bombs at crowds of counter protestors didn't do the trick they would have continued to kill larger numbers of people until the army was forced to act.

As it happens their immediate strategy of bloodbath forcing a collapse of the government didn't work. But a year of unrelenting lies and propaganda about what happened did help in the election

Excellent display of the Red Shirt arsenal and their tactical operations

[Roadman]

It's good the police asked k. Abhisit and k. Suthep to drop by to answers a few questions. No doubt the two gentlemen will comply. I assume the statements of some other worthy gentlemen, like k. Jatuporn, k. Nattawut, Dr. weng, et at have been taken already?

In this case, which will see a (Pheu Thai) MP travel all the way to The Hague, the Netherlands to inquire about the case filed with the ICC on the 31st of January this year, anyone involved should, will and must tell their side of the story. Two foreign reporters killed, 91 death in total! We, the people, democracy minded, etc., etc., we have a right to know.

BTW those this include those killed by grenade lobbing fanatics, grenades which just by pure chance (of course) seemed to only targeted non-red-shirts?

Totally agree. Well done to this Pheu Thai MP who wants to get the truth. I am mostly keen on the findings of the deaths of the 13 soldiers who were murdered by armed insurgents, and for the ICC to find who was responsible for funding, leading and enciting this act of war against Thailand. Once the ICC rule on this then it will be very easy for the Thai government to be able to file the appropriate charges against those responsible.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Roadman

[yoshiwara]

It's good the police asked k. Abhisit and k. Suthep to drop by to answers a few questions. No doubt the two gentlemen will comply. I assume the statements of some other worthy gentlemen, like k. Jatuporn, k. Nattawut, Dr. weng, et at have been taken already?

In this case, which will see a (Pheu Thai) MP travel all the way to The Hague, the Netherlands to inquire about the case filed with the ICC on the 31st of January this year, anyone involved should, will and must tell their side of the story. Two foreign reporters killed, 91 death in total! We, the people, democracy minded, etc., etc., we have a right to know.

BTW those this include those killed by grenade lobbing fanatics, grenades which just by pure chance (of course) seemed to only targeted non-red-shirts?

Totally agree. Well done to this Pheu Thai MP who wants to get the truth. I am mostly keen on the findings of the deaths of the 13 soldiers who were murdered by armed insurgents, and for the ICC to find who was responsible for funding, leading and enciting this act of war against Thailand. Once the ICC rule on this then it will be very easy for the Thai government to be able to file the appropriate charges against those responsible.

Such a pity Arisman is not available to answer a few questions.

[tlansford]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

The government of most countries use lethal force against criminals every day. Sometimes those associating with the criminals get caught in the cross fire and sometimes innocents do too.

First, they were protesters.

Second, what is your point?

Third, do you want to address the question in my post or not?

[tlansford]

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

A lot more. The first time near Khao San when they tried that dozens of soldiers were shot by the protestors and their commander killed, the army repulsed, and their trucks captured. The entire red strategy was to provoke a blood bath, hoping that it would force an immediate collapse of the government. If launching grenades at the sky train and lobbing bombs at crowds of counter protestors didn't do the trick they would have continued to kill larger numbers of people until the army was forced to act.

As it happens their immediate strategy of bloodbath forcing a collapse of the government didn't work. But a year of unrelenting lies and propaganda about what happened did help in the election

I find that to be a very very very unlikely result.

You might recall that the clash at KS road was the fall out of the army's attack - using lethal force. That reinforces my original point.

[waza]

Here some more peacefull Red shirt protestors being attaked by the Army,

[tlansford]

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

A lot more. The first time near Khao San when they tried that dozens of soldiers were shot by the protestors and their commander killed, the army repulsed, and their trucks captured. The entire red strategy was to provoke a blood bath, hoping that it would force an immediate collapse of the government. If launching grenades at the sky train and lobbing bombs at crowds of counter protestors didn't do the trick they would have continued to kill larger numbers of people until the army was forced to act.

As it happens their immediate strategy of bloodbath forcing a collapse of the government didn't work. But a year of unrelenting lies and propaganda about what happened did help in the election

Excellent display of the Red Shirt arsenal and their tactical operations

Perhaps you can then explain after this video how it is that the army killed more people by a ratio of over 17/1 to 21/1? Or why the army attacked the first time with lethal force? Or why the army fired directly into protesters (unlike this video claims)?

Again, had the army not used lethal force, how many would have died?

[tlansford]

Is it any surprise that there is now an investigation, since the appointment of the new national police chief who is related to Thaksin?

No, not a surprise.

But, that does not negate the need for a properly formed and constituted enquiry to establish who gave the orders to conduct operations the way they were conducted.

Somebody is accountable.

Somebody gave the instructions, orders and rules of engagement.

Maybe a group of people, it doesn't matter.

What does matter is that they should be known and held accountable.

An enquiry may well establish that it's perfectly Ok for the Government and military to use sharpshooters in crowd control and to target photographers, medics and passersby......

But it also may not.

It may also conclude that they were all shot by " dark forces" or itinerant Welsh rugby fans.

The point is the enquiry and how clear it is.

"engagement" is the key word. They were "engaging" with men that were shooting back at them.

Who the men in black? the Ninja Turtles? or do you mean people planted in the right areas? Get a grip son this is Thailand nothing ever dodgy goes on here

+1 : whenever there are protests, those opposing the protesters use "plants". Happens all the time. Happens in the US, too.

[waza]

A lot more. The first time near Khao San when they tried that dozens of soldiers were shot by the protestors and their commander killed, the army repulsed, and their trucks captured. The entire red strategy was to provoke a blood bath, hoping that it would force an immediate collapse of the government. If launching grenades at the sky train and lobbing bombs at crowds of counter protestors didn't do the trick they would have continued to kill larger numbers of people until the army was forced to act.

As it happens their immediate strategy of bloodbath forcing a collapse of the government didn't work. But a year of unrelenting lies and propaganda about what happened did help in the election

Excellent display of the Red Shirt arsenal and their tactical operations

Perhaps you can then explain after this video how it is that the army killed more people by a ratio of over 17/1 to 21/1? Or why the army attacked the first time with lethal force? Or why the army fired directly into protesters (unlike this video claims)?

Again, had the army not used lethal force, how many would have died?

A lot of civilians were killed when the Red shirts attacked the multi coloured shirts or granade attacked BTS stations ect.

[tlansford]

- snip -

A lot of civilians were killed when the Red shirts attacked the multi coloured shirts or granade attacked BTS stations ect.

A lot? I don't condone violence, but facts are useful...

On 16 April, Prime Minister Abhisit relieved Suthep from his 'security' responsibilities and replaced him with the Commander of the Royal Thai Army, General Anupong Paochinda.[77] In the subsequent week, several M-79 grenades were fired at government buildings, although no injuries were reported.

On the evening of 22 April, around 8 pm local time,[79] a series of explosions caused by Red-Shirts in Bangkok killed one person and injured 86 more, including at least four foreigners.[83][84] The explosions were caused by at least five M-79 grenades.[81] Three of the grenades were set off at Saladaeng Skytrain station (the elevated railway that is the main public transport), one near the Dusit Thani Hotel, and one near a bank.[81] It was the first time during the protests that a grenade attack occurred in a densely populated area and the first time that serious injuries occurred, although dozens of grenade attacks had occurred since the protest started.[78] The government did not blame to the Red-Shirt movement in itself, but to unspecified "terrorists" for the attack.

On 19 May, the Army launched an all out assault using APC's and defeated the Red-Shirts defences leaving at least five dead, including an Italian journalist and two soldiers were seriously wounded in a grenade attack. The protest leaders surrendered to police in a bid to avoid further bloodshed.

As far as facts go, those are the best that I can give at the moment. Grenade attacks, perhaps by the red shirts - although the govt itself did not blame the red shirt movement - killed one person. The army killed more than 86...

[OzMick]

A lot? I don't condone violence, but facts are useful...

As far as facts go, those are the best that I can give at the moment. Grenade attacks, perhaps by the red shirts - although the govt itself did not blame the red shirt movement - killed one person. The army killed more than 86...

Facts are useful for distortion, aren't they? " The army killed more than 86..." is a statement not backed by any proof of who caused those deaths. You previously stated a ratio based on this false assumption, without realising that a ratio of such proportions (civilian:military deaths) was necessary for the PR value. Take this into account and the much more doubt is added to the causers of many of these deaths.

As for those injured or killed, when protesters bring weapons they cease to be innocent and become criminals - and the blame for their injuries rests totally with themselves.

It is also a characteristic that those inciting the use of weapons have been rewarded by the granting of political immunity. How can the truth be revealed when one side cannot be brought to task?

[roiethome]

The red shirts were no more than terrorists seeking urban chaos to bring down the Government; as such they were treated correctly, i.e removed.

However, as said earlier the coward who hides in the middle east should also be investigated, but as he is really running the current government, this will never happen

[ThaiOats]

On 16 April, Prime Minister Abhisit relieved Suthep from his 'security' responsibilities and replaced him with the Commander of the Royal Thai Army, General Anupong Paochinda.[77] In the subsequent week, several M-79 grenades were fired at government buildings, although no injuries were reported.

on the evening of 22 April, around 8 pm local time,[79] a series of explosions caused by Red-Shirts in Bangkok killed one person and injured 86 more, including at least four foreigners.[83][84] The explosions were caused by at least five M-79 grenades.[81] Three of the grenades were set off at Saladaeng Skytrain station (the elevated railway that is the main public transport), one near the Dusit Thani Hotel, and one near a bank.[81] It was the first time during the protests that a grenade attack occurred in a densely populated area and the first time that serious injuries occurred, although dozens of grenade attacks had occurred since the protest started.[78] The government did not blame to the Red-Shirt movement in itself, but to unspecified "terrorists" for the attack.

On 19 May, the Army launched an all out assault using APC's and defeated the Red-Shirts defences leaving at least five dead, including an Italian journalist and two soldiers were seriously wounded in a grenade attack. The protest leaders surrendered to police in a bid to avoid further bloodshed.

As far as facts go, those are the best that I can give at the moment. Grenade attacks, perhaps by the red shirts - although the govt itself did not blame the red shirt movement - killed one person. The army killed more than 86...

Luckily the 86 injured didn't die right? God no, that would make the Red Shirts look like the bad guy. Are you seriously suggesting that just because the people were merely injured the Reds should get off easily? Really you need to look at what you're posting and think twice about it. The Red Shirts were using grenades, I don't care how many they've killed or injured, they were using explosives for god sakes. What the hell were protesters doing with GRENADES!? These terrorists hiding behind innocent Red Shirt civilians were instigating the Army to use more extreme measures. The hand was forced to the government otherwise how many more grenades were going to be thrown, injuring or perhaps killing people. You want someone to blame? Blame the Red Shirts for condoning violence without regards to the well being of their fellow civilians in order to achieve their purpose.

Just because Dr. Weng came out and said he "didn't condone it" doesn't mean he wasn't going to use it. He did NOTHING to stop it. None of the Red Shirts did ANYTHING to stop the violence, but rather they welcomed it, displayed but their relentless cheering for violence.

[whybother]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

The government of most countries use lethal force against criminals every day. Sometimes those associating with the criminals get caught in the cross fire and sometimes innocents do too.

First, they were protesters.

Second, what is your point?

Third, do you want to address the question in my post or not?

Why were the protesters armed? Being armed makes them criminals.

If you look at the chronology of events of the protests, the red shirts stepped up the aggression at every point. When the army weren't armed, the red shirts attacked and over powered them. On the night of April 10, no one knows who started the shooting, but it is clear that the red shirts came prepared for battle with there grenades and high powered rifles.

How many people would have died if the army didn't use lethal force? I don't know, but you could ask yourself the same question about the red shirts.

[Buchholz]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

The government of most countries use lethal force against criminals every day. Sometimes those associating with the criminals get caught in the cross fire and sometimes innocents do too.

First, they were protesters.

And their insincere sign and insincere monks are rock-solid proof of that:

F

Second, what is your point?

That Red Shirt violence begets a strong reaction.

Edited November 29, 2011 by sbk
link removed- links back to inappropriate discussion

[Buchholz]

Here some more peaceful Red shirt protestors being attacked by the Army

Incredible restraint displayed by the soldier at 00:48 by not emptying his M-16's entire clip into his attackers.

.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Excellent display of the Red Shirt arsenal and their tactical operations

Again, had the army not used lethal force, how many would have died?

A lot more soldiers would have died.

.

[whybother]

<snip>

As far as facts go, those are the best that I can give at the moment. Grenade attacks, perhaps by the red shirts - although the govt itself did not blame the red shirt movement - killed one person. The army killed more than 86...

The protesters killed 5 army personnel on April 10, an innocent bystander at Silom BTS and a multi-coloured shirt protester. There's 7 for you.

Was there a journalist or soldier also killed by a grenade blast on May 19, or were they only injured?

And with all the shooting by protesters on April 10, you don't think that some of the deaths and injuries of other protesters weren't caused by them?

How do you account for your "more than 86"?

[BigBikeBKK]

Peaceful protesters my arse!

Let's not forget Arisman telling the Red Shirts to bring bottles of gas to Bangkok for use as petrol bombs.

The Thai government and military showed amazing restraint by allowing these terrorists to occupy Bangkok for as long as they did.

[ralphlsasser]

I am just a layman but isn't the fact that black uniformed AK47 armed in the crowd have something to do with it ?.

BUT the gov should have stopped the build up of stuff from the beginning, Police useless, don't know why/how they earn a living from the tax payer.

Abhisit is as guilty and corrupt as anyone and yet he tries to project the squeeky clean image. Sickening that many people believe him.

[AleG]

<snip>

As far as facts go, those are the best that I can give at the moment. Grenade attacks, perhaps by the red shirts - although the govt itself did not blame the red shirt movement - killed one person. The army killed more than 86...

The protesters killed 5 army personnel on April 10, an innocent bystander at Silom BTS and a multi-coloured shirt protester. There's 7 for you.

Was there a journalist or soldier also killed by a grenade blast on May 19, or were they only injured?

And with all the shooting by protesters on April 10, you don't think that some of the deaths and injuries of other protesters weren't caused by them?

How do you account for your "more than 86"?

There were two policemen killed, near Sala Daeng I think, by a drive by shooting, and one or two people killed by bombs planted around the city.

It's disgusting how Red Shirts wave around 91 people killed during the protests as if those were all Red Shirts and not also their victims.

[ralphlsasser]

I think you will find that many people can.

Yes which EX PM should be questioned the one who is Bnagkok or the one who is over the hills and far away, the one one who like video calls and * I am sorry I cannot be with you in person tonight but this is what I would like you to do."

Surely it's quite a good development for the country that there be an enquiry and that those responsible for authorising the use of snipers in "crowd control" be identified and called to account ???

Your introduction of the "Thaksin gremlin" is a red herring.

The events of last year need to be examined, responsibility all round determined and the truth established.

Who can argue with that ???

yes, those who don't want to know why the govt killed so many people...

Sickening that many people still blame the man in Dubai for all the faults in Thailand. In fact, very boring and sickening.