German Tourist Fatally Injured After Falling From Elephant's Back

[Markaew]

Amazing to read these insensitive posts, I used to own a restaurant bar in Phuket, so many complaints about Thailand this and Thailand that, I would get so disgusted! Why live here if you all have to complain so much, maybe you can't go home so your sentence is come to Thailand and slander it as much as you can. What a pity...just because we choose to live here what gives any foreigner the right to cut it up so much...I enjoy my time with the Thai people more than most of the cry babies who are just visitors anyway...

My deepest sympathy to this poor man who lost his wife in such a tragic way...may you find peace in your heart as soon as possible.

I can answer that one newbie.

People first come here expecting smiles and courtesy that thais generally bestow to each other. Unknowing to the average farang, thais will never accept foreigners and will never give foreigners the courtesy/acceptance they give one another. Foreigners are treated as outcasts and eventually that shows up in the foreigner's behavior. Foreigners expected something good and get something bad. Simple.

Edited December 3, 2011 by Markaew

[KKK]

People first come here expecting smiles.....Foreigners expected something good......

And isn't that what the TAT advertise.....

.... and courtesy that thais generally bestow to each other.....

....the courtesy/acceptance they give one another.

I'm not so sure of that......they may not give farangs much respect but I don't think they give their own people much either....just look at all the corruption..is that respect....

[Markaew]

If a Thai died in an accident similar to this in the west he or she would sue us for every dollar they could get. In Thailand there will be no accountability. The Thai owner is living in Singapore or Hong kong and not available for comment... Case closed... Dead farangs family will have to pay morgue fees as well before its released to Thai air cargo....more money !! Thanks farang.

Why do people on this always have to be so quick to bash? Its frankly pathetic and xenophobic.

I guess these are the poeple that in their home country, complain that the 'immigrants' do not mix with locals and become part of the community.

Unfortunately Thailand is full of these selfrightous "know it all" farangs. Grow up!

Yes Farangs. SHUT UP!! So we abuse you without you complaining.

I personally don't believe this is the moment to promote your belief in the Thai culture. I genuinely feel for this German man that just lost his wife. This happens too often in Thailand to people that are innocent and ignorant of the dangers of the Thai culture.

[Markaew]

If you don't like it here, why don't you move to another country ?

Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

I'm guessing you have that comment saved and you can copy and paste at will.

[cowslip]

I"d say that you can't read what i posted.

If an elephant is born in captivity I used the term "domesticated", I then pointed out that I'm not sure of the technical definition of :domesticated - (so in captivity may have been better) - however It seems a lot of people are making generalisations about breaking inn animals when they really haven't got the background knowledge to make a reasonable assessment - nor are they aware of that.

you do not seem aware of the implication or have drawn a reasonable inference.

Cowslip...you can't seem to make up your mind....

I believe that the situation is different for domesticated elephants - in that wild and domesticated require different sorts of "breaking"

I"m not sure but I'd wager that elephants are not really a domesticated species and as such have a different set of problems.

Anyway the way I see it is like this:

Some but not all elephants have been abused or mistreated. I've no idea on the percentage. Trouble is how can we tell. I don't think we can, so should we then have nothing to with elephants at all, not ride them, not bathe with them, not feed them in case one of them happens to have been an abused one and we could then be seen as "supporting" that abuse. There maybe some elephant camps that say they don't or never have abused their elephants but we only have their word on that. Without proper regulation, licensing and regular checks being made by some 'authoritative' agency we really can't be sure.And if we stay away from them all we end up with more 'unemployed', as cowslip puts it, elephants creating even more of a problem....Doesn't seem to be a solution does there...well I can't think of one....

[bigbamboo]

Sadly this appears to have been a tragic accident that as with many involved more than one element. The truth with come out in time. Personally I find it sad that such magnificent animals are used in this way in the first place and anyone who takes advantage of them, owners or customers, should realise what they are doing.

[monkeyboots]

Jesus, have you heard what some of you sound like? Despite the floods there are plenty of flights out of here if you feel this is such an unworthy place to live. Hard done by farangs versus cheating Thais is the attitude that unfortunately pervades too many of the posts on this site. It's as if you had invites to live here. Don't pollute what can be interesting and informative forums. And no, I'm not a newbie to Thailand - 15 years in and loving it. Thank you.

Edited December 3, 2011 by monkeyboots

[koto]

Condolences to the husband and the whole family of the poor woman. RIP.

As with every such post, I can only note with disgust the various comments... Thai bashing in 90% of all posts... "Thai to be blamed for accident".... "would be treated differently if it would be a Thai"... "would be treated differently in Europe"... "no money to be made, case closed"....

I'd like to ask a question to the Admins: Why do you allow comments on such "news" items? You know what will be coming... you could as well add the standard blaming comments yourself and close the item for comments.... did not see a single comment that add value to the post... probably mine included...

No sir, yours is the only mature post, most of these other knuckle heads should be barred from posting.

It is a shame that there are so many cheap jokes made on truly sad situations, all of the time.

[koto]

Jesus, have you heard what some of you sound like? Despite the floods there are plenty of flights out of here if you feel this is such an unworthy place to live. Hard done by farangs versus cheating Thais is the attitude that unfortunately pervades too many of the posts on this site. It's as if you had invites to live here. Don't pollute what can be interesting and informative forums. And no, I'm not a newbie to Thailand - 15 years in and loving it. Thank you.

11 years in and agreeing with you, Mahalo Nui Loa

[cowslip]

Jesus, have you heard what some of you sound like? Despite the floods there are plenty of flights out of here if you feel this is such an unworthy place to live. Hard done by farangs versus cheating Thais is the attitude that unfortunately pervades too many of the posts on this site. It's as if you had invites to live here. Don't pollute what can be interesting and informative forums. And no, I'm not a newbie to Thailand - 15 years in and loving it. Thank you.

11 years in and agreeing with you, Mahalo Nui Loa

actually I think the pair of you have failed to read most of the posts and don't seem to understand th background of this sort of accident. As it is not a "one off" and this sort of thing repeatedly happens in Thailand (and of course elsewhere) so it generates a certain amount of ire.

I agree that there have been some bizarre prejudgements and assumptions but your posts do not contribute in any way to the points raised, in fact you seem to advocate not having an opinion.

Edited December 4, 2011 by cowslip

[Markaew]

Jesus, have you heard what some of you sound like? Despite the floods there are plenty of flights out of here if you feel this is such an unworthy place to live. Hard done by farangs versus cheating Thais is the attitude that unfortunately pervades too many of the posts on this site. It's as if you had invites to live here. Don't pollute what can be interesting and informative forums. And no, I'm not a newbie to Thailand - 15 years in and loving it. Thank you.

11 years in and agreeing with you, Mahalo Nui Loa

actually I think the pair of you have failed to read most of the posts and don't seem to understand th background of this sort of accident. As it is not a "one off" and this sort of thing repeatedly happens in Thailand (and of course elsewhere) so it generates a certain amount of ire.

I agree that there have been some bizarre prejudgements and assumptions but your posts do not contribute in any way to the points raised, in fact you seem to advocate not having an opinion.

Nicely put.

Although justice is a missing component in Thailand, it doesn't mean we can't fantasize about having it.

[NowImEasy]

Posting again but only as requested to answer a question.

What did YOU do about the incident of abuse YOU witnessed?

Sorry KKK, I presume this was the question you asked me to answer?? My not answering was an oversight.

I risked the wrath of the mahout and his hook, walked the 50 metres or so and tore strips off him, verbally, to the cheers of many of the westerners who saw it. He didn't understand the content but he certainly understood the tone, my gestures, and my attitude toward him. I don't think it will make any difference long term, but it immediately made me feel a hell of a lot better, although my blood pressure took a serious hit for a few minutes. The two methods I've seen for training animals are cruelty and food, both, regrettably involving subjugation in different forms.

I've lived in a number of Asian countries over many years, and they don't have the same attitude toward animals that most western countries do. It's sad, and I hate it, but the best thing I can do is not put myself in situations where I witness it. I also contribute to a couple of animal welfare organizations. I see too many organizations such as zoos, which I will never visit, hiding behind the mantra of 'captive breeding programs', but it seems few animals born to such programs are released, and more likely sold or traded to other zoos for public display so organizations can make money and CEO's suck fat salaries and bonuses out of them.

I think the methods of training are probably more race related KKK. I saw horses being broken as a kid in western Queensland, and cruelty was a part of it, just as killing cattle didn't first require stunning back then, but I think we've evolved here, largely because of the activities of animal rights organizations.

Recent publicity around Indonesian abattoirs cruelly killing cattle imported from Australia, in spite of education programs, shows that they place a different value on animal life from what we do, and before anybody accuses me of being racist, I'm not. I saw the same when living in Japan where fish are filleted whilst alive so 'toxins aren't released into the flesh' so making it less tasty. I would have thought that subjecting an animal to terrible pain, rather than a quick death, would be more likely to release toxins??

Thank you for finding the time to reply. You got the right question. I commend you 'attacking' the mahout and generally agree with you on most of the other points you made. I'm honestly ashamed of myself in not knowing the abuse that an elephant goes through so that it can be ridden. But elephant riding still seems to be widely available in Thailand; sometimes with a seat sometimes bareback. Not sure which way is better or if either of them can be called OK. My only hope is that those places that do offer elephant riding do train their elephants in a non-abusive way. I would think that current non-abusive methods of training horses would probably work but I'm no expert. If the only way is the awful method of 3 days of beatings that apparently can be found on google videos, I couldn't bring myself to watch it, then elephant riding should be banned. I will certainly avoid it and advise friends/family to do the same.

Problem is that we tend to only see the juicy steak on the plate waiting be be consumed and don't think of all the things that happened to get it there.Education, education, education, the key to any society that wants to call itself civilised.

Please! You promised no more replies! My eyes are bleeding.

[grumpyoldman]

As a regular contribtor to this Forum and a regular in Krabi, I've been hesitant to pipe in here on what is the longest running thread I have ever seen on this sleepy Krabi Forum.

But now I will and I must say how inconsiderate and insensitive the group is here, really amazing.

Tragic, fatal accident occurs and the lynch mob is out pointing fingers, claiming it wouldn't have happened if they weren't so fat etc. Astonishing really...........

May the lady rest in peace, may the gentleman overcome what must be massive sadness and regret, find forgiveness for himself and may the rest of you keyboard warriors find some better way to spend your time.

[cowslip]

As I said before this sort of thing arouses passions - but I would say that MOST people on this forum are although obviously saddened by this tragedy, also angered by the fact that Thailand is seemingly oblivious to the health and safety issues involved, has no concern for animal welfare and in situations like this repeatedly try to shift the blame or cover up.

[Rooo]

I have deleted a couple of posts. I am sure that if I go back through the topic I will be deleting several. As mentioned before by another moderator, please keep in mind that people associated with the accident victim might be reading this topic.So please do curb your off topic discussions & personal attacks.

A couple of members here are way out of line, first & only warning.

[ALFREDO]

www.welt.de/.../[/color]Deutsche-stirbt-in-Thailand...

German News channels write from a punctured lung.