Expats With Yellow Book To Prove Residency

[Soutpeel]

My 3 children carry British passports, as well as Thai. Should they too be denied free medical treatment based on not being 100% Thai?

Err no...they are are 100% Thai...even if they carry British PP...its called dual nationality...I have it myself...

[jrtmedic]

Sinbin

Time to give it a rest old chap !

[sinbin]

The interesting thing about Sinbin's account is that he says he has to renew every year. It would be interesting to know.

1. What is the date (year) of his most recent gold card?

2. What is the first digit of the 13 digit number against his name on the tabien baan?

3. Does the same number appear on his gold card?

1. 1 October 2012

2. 6

3. Yes exactly the same 13 digit number.

So what does this show?

Edited May 21, 2013 by sinbin

[sinbin]

My 3 children carry British passports, as well as Thai. Should they too be denied free medical treatment based on not being 100% Thai?

Err no...they are are 100% Thai...even if they carry British PP...its called dual nationality...I have it myself...

[sinbin]

Best ask other posters as they seem to have all the answers. I'd be interested to know myself.

Sinbin,

since you have a medical card for use at your local hospital and your doctor there says you need a heart by pass, but his hospital can't do bypasses. he will then refer you to another Govt. hospital that can do it for you.

Edited May 21, 2013 by sinbin

[sinbin]

The "Thais who issue the cards" are the National Health Security Office (NHSO). Website http://www.nhso.go.th/eng/Site/Default.aspx Call center 1330 (Thai speaking). Tel 02-141-4000. Since you do not believe me, I suggest you call and ask them.

Why would I question them? As you say my card was issued through them. So they being the issuers they must be correct in their issueing of it.

[swissie]

30 Bht health-program: See today's post of mine under:

"General-Topics, 30 Bht health........"

Cheers.

[citizen33]

30 Bht health-program: See today's post of mine under:

"General-Topics, 30 Bht health........"

Cheers.

I'm sorry to see Swissie draw a blank, but I'm afraid it was fairly predictable.

Sinbin's case on the other hand continues to throw up intriguing questions. Now I have to preface my remarks by saying that I am not an expert in the finer details of the registration process, but it appears that the '6' prefix in his 13 digit ID number indicates that he has been classified as a stateless (or more properly nationality-less) person, under the first of four subcategories that exist - in this case, ethnic minorities (as opposed to rootless persons, irregular migrants from Cambodia, Laos or Myanmar, or displaced persons from Myanmar).

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/CMW/docs/DGD/MMC_3_DGD2011.pdf

At the risk of boring everybody I quote from the document:

(A) Categorised in the Tor-Ror 13 Registration since 1972

The parent generation of this group have 13-digit ID numbers beginning with ‘6’ while children born of this group have ID numbers beginning with ‘7’. Previously holding colour-coded group-specific cards, these people now have ‘non-national ID Cards’. Most are nationality-less but not stateless as their parent’s generation has been granted certificates of residence or ‘alien cards’ which entitle them to permanent residency in Thailand but not Thai nationality. Children of this generation born in Thailand are to be given Thai nationality. However,some groups are only given temporary residency without time limits yet it seems likely that they will eventually be granted permanent residency and their children born in Thailand will receive Thai nationality.

Now interestingly this group are not covered by the UCS proper but a kind of extension of the scheme funded by the MoPH in 2010.

http://www.nhso.go.th/eng/Files/content/255503/2bbcebc6-b148-4f05-93fd-04463ca40597-129775522503960000.pdf

So assuming that I am correct regarding the '6' prefix, Sinbin is not actually regarded as a Thai male but an ethnic minority male. Of course, given that he probably has a UK passport and legally entered Thailand as a UK citizen this is also a mistake, and he would face the same problem we mentioned before if he went too far upstream in the system. It would not surprise me though if he could continue to receive treatment at his local health centre or community hospital without discovery. This seems quite an esoteric case, but perhaps this was one way that some got gold cards.

If anybody knows more than I do about the registration process I'd be pleased to be corrected.

Edited May 21, 2013 by citizen33

[swissie]

30 Bht health-program: See today's post of mine under:

"General-Topics, 30 Bht health........"

Cheers.

I'm sorry to see Swissie draw a blank, but I'm afraid it was fairly predictable.

Sinbin's case on the other hand continues to throw up intriguing questions. Now I have to preface my remarks by saying that I am not an expert in the finer details of the registration process, but it appears that the '6' prefix in his 13 digit ID number indicates that he has been classified as a stateless (or more properly nationality-less) person, under the first of four subcategories that exist - in this case, ethnic minorities (as opposed to rootless persons, irregular migrants from Cambodia, Laos or Myanmar, or displaced persons from Myanmar).

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/CMW/docs/DGD/MMC_3_DGD2011.pdf

At the risk of boring everybody I quote from the document:

(A) Categorised in the Tor-Ror 13 Registration since 1972

The parent generation of this group have 13-digit ID numbers beginning with ‘6’ while children born of this group have ID numbers beginning with ‘7’. Previously holding colour-coded group-specific cards, these people now have ‘non-national ID Cards’. Most are nationality-less but not stateless as their parent’s generation has been granted certificates of residence or ‘alien cards’ which entitle them to permanent residency in Thailand but not Thai nationality. Children of this generation born in Thailand are to be given Thai nationality. However,some groups are only given temporary residency without time limits yet it seems likely that they will eventually be granted permanent residency and their children born in Thailand will receive Thai nationality.

Now interestingly this group are not covered by the UCS proper but a kind of extension of the scheme funded by the MoPH in 2010.

http://www.nhso.go.th/eng/Files/content/255503/2bbcebc6-b148-4f05-93fd-04463ca40597-129775522503960000.pdf

So assuming that I am correct regarding the '6' prefix, Sinbin is not actually regarded as a Thai male but an ethnic minority male. Of course, given that he probably has a UK passport and legally entered Thailand as a UK citizen this is also a mistake, and he would face the same problem we mentioned before if he went too far upstream in the system. It would not surprise me though if he could continue to receive treatment at his local health centre or community hospital without discovery. This seems quite an esoteric case, but perhaps this was one way that some got gold cards.

If anybody knows more than I do about the registration process I'd be pleased to be corrected.

Now a basically simple issue get's even simpler: Translate the above into Thai, present it to the hospital-administrator. All set.

Chances are, one will get a blank stare at first and a nice smile upon leaving. But that will be all.

Cheers.

[citizen33]

Well, yes. All I am saying is that it looks as though the amphur and/or CUP indeed made a mistake, but a rather different mistake than we first thought. This isn't a way Westerners as a group can get free health coverage. The scheme concerned is intended for disadvantaged minorities such as hill tribes and persons of unclear nationality from neighbouring countries.

[Mario2008]

So assuming that I am correct regarding the '6' prefix, Sinbin is not actually regarded as a Thai male but an ethnic minority male. Of course, given that he probably has a UK passport and legally entered Thailand as a UK citizen this is also a mistake, and he would face the same problem we mentioned before if he went too far upstream in the system. It would not surprise me though if he could continue to receive treatment at his local health centre or community hospital without discovery. This seems quite an esoteric case, but perhaps this was one way that some got gold cards.

In the past only stateless people etc would have a Thai ID-number, but now any foreigner can be on a yellow household book and thus have a Thai ID-number starting with a 6 (or 8 if they have permanent residency), male or female.

My understanding is that the system didn't take in to account that all foreigners now can be on household book, thus in the beginning they got a gold card with the registration. That loophole has since been corrected, with gold cards already issued being honored. Sometimes mistakes seem to be made and people still get a gold card, that is as far as I know not honered as that is a mistake, where old cases where issued within the rules.

[citizen33]

In the past only stateless people etc would have a Thai ID-number, but now any foreigner can be on a yellow household book and thus have a Thai ID-number starting with a 6 (or 8 if they have permanent residency), male or female.

My understanding is that the system didn't take in to account that all foreigners now can be on household book, thus in the beginning they got a gold card with the registration. That loophole has since been corrected, with gold cards already issued being honored. Sometimes mistakes seem to be made and people still get a gold card, that is as far as I know not honered as that is a mistake, where old cases where issued within the rules.

I think we are now getting closer to the answer on this point. It seems that the '6' prefix now applies to all persons entered in yellow books (Tor-ror 13) but that only stateless persons with IDs starting with 6 were thereby entitled to free health care. Prior to 2010 this applied only to limited ad hoc government programmes, but this was then extended by the initiative in my link above. Where I think you are incorrect is in the idea that any non-stateless persons who were given a gold card will somehow be 'grandfathered'. I put this point to one of the Deputy Secretary Generals at the NHSO and he said that such persons would have no entitlement to coverage. Incidentally the 8 prefix would never have given somebody UCS coverage as permanent residents are not eligible - only Thai nationals and defined categories of stateless persons covered by add-on schemes. Edited May 21, 2013 by citizen33

[Mario2008]

I can't say I'm sure on the grandfathering thing, that is my understanding from discussions on the forum. And I can't remember having seen post of people having their cards revoked.

But what the official policy is a deputy Secretary general would certainly know much better than me.

[Sheryl]

I have seen reports of people being denied coverage when referred to higher levels of care and at that point told they should not have been issued the card to begin with.

Sooner or later a directive will go out to all the hospitals telling them not to issue cards to non-Thais and to revoke any already issued. how soon depends on how many cases come to the attention of the powers that be. Noising a lot about having gotten a card (on the part of farang) apt to help make it sooner.

[Sheryl]

P.S. those few of you with UHC cards would do well to take note of post # 13 here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/640147-30-bht-health-scheme/

[sinbin]

If someone is wrong in allowing myself and 100's(?) of other farangs the privilage of obtaining a Thai Medical Card then who was/is it? Was it the issuer of the 13 digit number number or is it the local local hospitals? I don't see it being the fault of the hospitals, as Sheryl keeps on indicating.

Edited May 21, 2013 by sinbin

[Langsuan Man]

The government, any government, erroneously sends you a tax refund check, you cash it knowing full well that you don't deserve the money

Do you really think that you are not guilty of fraud because your defense is: Well they sent me the check so I must deserve it

[sinbin]

Langsuan Man, if the government sent me a tax refund I'd gladly accept it as they are the boss. Who am I to question them and tell them they're wrong? Also you really kneed to know what fraud means. The government "erroneously" sends me money so I'm committing fraud?

Edited May 22, 2013 by sinbin