Returning Thaksin's Passport 'Would Be Illegal'

[wolf5370]

Everything the democrats do and did is legitimate, even creating life firing zones in the middle of Bangkok. Everything people with different views do are illegitimate. Last time I checked it was that attitude that decimated the no so Democrat party in Thai elections. (Elections were by the way also considered illegitimate when the army raped democracy to the benefit of the DP).

Don't be bother what the DP or the Nation say, they are preaching for their own community only.

This of course is always true, when there are two sides (or more) those on "our" side are right and the others are wrong - same with everything fromn religion to politics to cultural ideaology and everything inbetween where there is disagreement. Not quiote sure "raping democracy" is valid though, as those opposed to your views will say that had alrteady happened when the caretaker primeminister refused to leave office and used illegal snap elections to try and stay in power - not quite democratic either.

We are all at the mercy of the media and never was it used so blatantly and immorally as during those red shirt domonstrations, on Red TV, Red Radio and stages across the kingdom. Thaksin's government also did much to censor and gag the media too (including buy it and forcing the sacking of chief editors that wrote against the governement's line). If you believe your first paragraph, then you must also realise the bias of your last.

On a different note (based on some other comments here):

It is silly and simplistic to suggest that what can legal by done under a constitution can also be legally undone - this is often not the case. Each action is independant and may have laws governing legality and use. The Government has no right of pardon (outside of judicial appeal or royal pardon given that this is a constitutional monarchy) in its own right, but they of course have the power to enact laws that will send individuals to prison. Laws can be repealled, even back dated, but it would still be the judiciary that enacted pardons.

What goes up may not come down the same colour of shape.

Interestign thing is that the only stated (referenced) act was relating to the immigration officals ability to decide whether to accept a passport or not (nothing new there of course - and nothing most other countries do not also employ). The reference to other rules that dissallowed the return of his passport are left unnamed - why?

Someone notes that with his two (I think) diplomatic passports he can waltz in anyway - this is not true, and state can refuse to accept diplomats entry (and expel them too) at any time - its written into the agreement and does happen.

On a counter note: This is all purely symbolic anyway - he is still a Thai citizen and would be allowed entry even without a passport on proof of this (even if he was held whilst checks were made etc - doubtful in the case of someone so famous that is a known citizen). Of course, in theory he would (or should) still be arrested on entry whilst there is a warrant out for him - at least until they are quashed by the judiciary. Thai passport - he does not need one.

[wolf5370]

Everything the democrats do and did is legitimate, even creating life firing zones in the middle of Bangkok. Everything people with different views do are illegitimate. Last time I checked it was that attitude that decimated the no so Democrat party in Thai elections. (Elections were by the way also considered illegitimate when the army raped democracy to the benefit of the DP).

Don't be bother what the DP or the Nation say, they are preaching for their own community only.

Exactly and in the case of the Democrat party that is truly worrying as they are the main opposition party and should be a viable electoral alternative and to not even try to reach out to those who dont support them is a level of political idiocy that defies belief in a party that needs votes and lots more of them to bring it to power. Right now they seem more intent on buoying up the support of the more extreme among those who vote for them even at the cost of losing some peripheral votes who get bored with their constant confrontation and lauding it over everyone with their sense of entitlement and superiority complex

The next election is far away (assuming no snap election for big bro's return - which I doubt there will be anyway - maybe just a head change as part of a goverment reshuffle) - votes are not yet important, what is important (to them as opposition) is destroying the credability of the government by continually showing that their election promisies were fraudulent and that their statement of not being just about returning big bro to power, is actually a lie and the only real goal they have set themselves. To rub in their failuires with regards to the floods (ignoring warnings from the palace etc), lost foreign business (Japanese and Korean companies leaving because of false promises to protect their factories from the floods and then not meeting promises on how long it would take to return the flooded factories to production), lost tourism, broken promises on laptops, pay, and so on.

The Reds were very successful in tieing up Abasit's government and drowning out any good they did/proposed to do with rhetoric and (to really tie their hands) with demonstrations and rallies.

Edited December 7, 2011 by wolf5370

[Oberkommando]

The next election is far away (assuming no snap election for big bro's return - which I doubt there will be anyway - maybe just a head change as part of a goverment reshuffle) - votes are not yet important, what is important (to them as opposition) is destroying the credability of the government by continually showing that their election promisies were fraudulent and that their statement of not being just about returning big bro to power, is actually a lie and the only real goal they have set themselves. To rub in their failuires with regards to the floods (ignoring warnings from the palace etc), lost foreign business (Japanese and Korean companies leaving because of false promises to protect their factories from the floods and then not meeting promises on how long it would take to return the flooded factories to production), lost tourism, broken promises on laptops, pay, and so on.

The Reds were very successful in tieing up Abasit's government and drowning out any good they did/proposed to do with rhetoric and (to really tie their hands) with demonstrations and rallies.

The problem with that is the people still haven't forgotten the Democrats 'Bitter Medicine' policies of the 1990's, and they are still un-electable in the North and the North East as a result.

It doesn't really matter how bad this government does, they will still have a lot of support simply because Thaksin and TRT were the first political party to recognise the importance of populist politics.

The Democrats have come late to the table in this regard, and it explains why they tried to copy so many of Thaksin's initiatives and policies over the last two years.

[Skywalker69]

A passport is a traveldocument. Thaksin don´t need a Thai passport as he has at least 3 passports from other countries so he is free to travel.

He is even free to return to Thailand, maby he have to apply for a Thai visa, him beeing a Montenegrian.

Using his Ugandan diplomatic passport eliminates the need for a visa.

.

Whoops! i did forget that one.

[robertson468]

Thaksin will get his passport back. The Democrats will impeach Surapong. The government will vote for Surapong and defeat the impeachment. Thaksin will win!

Next: the Constitution will be changed. The Democrats will protest. The government will pass the changes. Thaksin will win and return!

The Yellow Shirts will demonstrate every day and occupy a section of Bangkok in protest. The Red Shirts will oppose the demonstrators with violence and intimidation. Violence will escalate and escalate. Eventually, someone will have to give way as the capital city will become a kind of battle ground. Will Thaksin give way? ... No. Will the Yellows give way? ... No. ... Stalemate.

What will happen then, is anyone's guess, but the country will be dragged down because Thaksin is home-sick and wants his money and power back.

Hopefully, Thaksin will lose his snap election next year and return to Dubai for good, taking his cronies with him.

I expect that's pretty much how it will play out, with a coup at the end to break the stalemate, same as last time. Then we start all over again

In the main, I agree with you except no one yet has articulated the likely deaths that could occur for the sake of one person. Love him or hate him, I find it exceptionally difficult to condone the actions of one person, to pursue a personal agenda knowing full well there is a high probability of people dieing as a consequence. As usual, the ordinary citizens are totally disposable for the ideology of the rich and powerful. This is the darkest side of human nature at work.

[hellodolly]

Everything the democrats do and did is legitimate, even creating life firing zones in the middle of Bangkok. Everything people with different views do are illegitimate. Last time I checked it was that attitude that decimated the no so Democrat party in Thai elections. (Elections were by the way also considered illegitimate when the army raped democracy to the benefit of the DP).

Don't be bother what the DP or the Nation say, they are preaching for their own community only.

Are you saying Thaksins brother in law was really not the legal PM. Why did Thaksin not do some thing about that then instead of waiting for a Government he did not like.

You were obviously not here the democrats did not create a firing zone in the middle of Bangkok.

A group of armed peaceful demonstrators wearing red and black shirts created it. They even invaded a hospital.

The Democrats closed it down.:jap:

Edited December 7, 2011 by hellodolly

[hellodolly]

Everything the democrats do and did is legitimate, even creating life firing zones in the middle of Bangkok. Everything people with different views do are illegitimate. Last time I checked it was that attitude that decimated the no so Democrat party in Thai elections. (Elections were by the way also considered illegitimate when the army raped democracy to the benefit of the DP).

Don't be bother what the DP or the Nation say, they are preaching for their own community only.

Exactly and in the case of the Democrat party that is truly worrying as they are the main opposition party and should be a viable electoral alternative and to not even try to reach out to those who dont support them is a level of political idiocy that defies belief in a party that needs votes and lots more of them to bring it to power. Right now they seem more intent on buoying up the support of the more extreme among those who vote for them even at the cost of losing some peripheral votes who get bored with their constant confrontation and lauding it over everyone with their sense of entitlement and superiority complex

The next election is far away (assuming no snap election for big bro's return - which I doubt there will be anyway - maybe just a head change as part of a goverment reshuffle) - votes are not yet important, what is important (to them as opposition) is destroying the credability of the government by continually showing that their election promisies were fraudulent and that their statement of not being just about returning big bro to power, is actually a lie and the only real goal they have set themselves. To rub in their failuires with regards to the floods (ignoring warnings from the palace etc), lost foreign business (Japanese and Korean companies leaving because of false promises to protect their factories from the floods and then not meeting promises on how long it would take to return the flooded factories to production), lost tourism, broken promises on laptops, pay, and so on.

The Reds were very successful in tieing up Abasit's government and drowning out any good they did/proposed to do with rhetoric and (to really tie their hands) with demonstrations and rallies.

I think what hammered is saying the Democrats should stop trying to make Thailand a better place and start lying to the people.

As he has pointed out they are not doing that.

I think you are rite let the PT destroy there own credibility and being as the next election is in all probability far away they can swing the voters over to thinking of people who care for Thailand rather than people who only care how munch money is in it for them.

To give a example What if Yingluck was not Thaksin's brother and he did not have all the money he has. Would they be trying so hard to get him back.

[elcent]

The Democrats did more in their short term for common folks than T in 6 years. Says it all. It took ONE and a HALF YEARS for fugitive T to come up with something for the people and not just for himself. Guess who scolded him.

Now he's a fugitive of justice and bail jumper

[risky11]

Thaksin will get his passport back. The Democrats will impeach Surapong. The government will vote for Surapong and defeat the impeachment. Thaksin will win!

Next: the Constitution will be changed. The Democrats will protest. The government will pass the changes. Thaksin will win and return!

The Yellow Shirts will demonstrate every day and occupy a section of Bangkok in protest. The Red Shirts will oppose the demonstrators with violence and intimidation. Violence will escalate and escalate. Eventually, someone will have to give way as the capital city will become a kind of battle ground. Will Thaksin give way? ... No. Will the Yellows give way? ... No. ... Stalemate.

What will happen then, is anyone's guess, but the country will be dragged down because Thaksin is home-sick and wants his money and power back.

Hopefully, Thaksin will lose his snap election next year and return to Dubai for good, taking his cronies with him.

I expect that's pretty much how it will play out, with a coup at the end to break the stalemate, same as last time. Then we start all over again

In the main, I agree with you except no one yet has articulated the likely deaths that could occur for the sake of one person. Love him or hate him, I find it exceptionally difficult to condone the actions of one person, to pursue a personal agenda knowing full well there is a high probability of people dieing as a consequence. As usual, the ordinary citizens are totally disposable for the ideology of the rich and powerful. This is the darkest side of human nature at work.

What if Thaksin were to die unexpectedly? Would save alot of lives and put an end to the never-ending drama. I'm just sayin'....

[Buchholz]

Using his Ugandan diplomatic passport eliminates the need for a visa..

A DP does not eliminate the need for a visa.

He could partner it with a Thai Elite Card...

[MaiChai]

Evading an arrest warrent for not serving jail time is a big hurdle. How can anyone talk that one away? 'Presents to the boss' don't wash in an elected democracy where the government is accountable to the people. Laws are debated, passed and people are expected to obay the laws which are fair and just and applied to all. Thats the theory and its generally applied.

Those closet red shirts amongst us may predict a civil war, but it won't happen. The military won't allow it. All colours of shirts need to respect and obay the laws.

Betime Thais started obaying the laws, and we will then get a fairer and just society.

[makescents]

The "country" wants him back? Well I guess you know the views of the"country"

Well the election was a good indication.

When the majority of the country votes for his proxy I'd say it was pretty clear they want him to return.

[whybother]

The "country" wants him back? Well I guess you know the views of the"country"

Well the election was a good indication.

When the majority of the country votes for his proxy I'd say it was pretty clear they want him to return.

So the fact that a majority DIDN'T vote for his proxy means that it's pretty clear that they don't want him to return.

Add to that, that some people voted for PTP for their "policies", including the one of "The return of Thaksin is not our priority".

Also, that some of the people that voted for PTP (according to many red shirt supporting posters on here) don't support Thaksin.

Finally, the election wasn't a referendum on one thing. It was an election to vote for a government to run the country.

So there are many reasons why a minority of the country voted for PTP. That makes it clear that a majority of the country don't want Thaksin to return.

[makescents]

The "country" wants him back? Well I guess you know the views of the"country"

Well the election was a good indication.

When the majority of the country votes for his proxy I'd say it was pretty clear they want him to return.

So the fact that a majority DIDN'T vote for his proxy means that it's pretty clear that they don't want him to return.

Add to that, that some people voted for PTP for their "policies", including the one of "The return of Thaksin is not our priority".

Also, that some of the people that voted for PTP (according to many red shirt supporting posters on here) don't support Thaksin.

Finally, the election wasn't a referendum on one thing. It was an election to vote for a government to run the country.

So there are many reasons why a minority of the country voted for PTP. That makes it clear that a majority of the country don't want Thaksin to return.

You're right. I incorrectly stated that the majority of people voted for Pheua Thai. They received the most seats though and that's all that matters.

I think it would be naive to think that people voting for PTP didn't know that the return of Thaksin would be on the cards, so to speak. Why else have some rookie with no political experience head the party?

Edited December 8, 2011 by makescents

[whybother]

The "country" wants him back? Well I guess you know the views of the"country"

Well the election was a good indication.

When the majority of the country votes for his proxy I'd say it was pretty clear they want him to return.

So the fact that a majority DIDN'T vote for his proxy means that it's pretty clear that they don't want him to return.

Add to that, that some people voted for PTP for their "policies", including the one of "The return of Thaksin is not our priority".

Also, that some of the people that voted for PTP (according to many red shirt supporting posters on here) don't support Thaksin.

Finally, the election wasn't a referendum on one thing. It was an election to vote for a government to run the country.

So there are many reasons why a minority of the country voted for PTP. That makes it clear that a majority of the country don't want Thaksin to return.

You're right. I incorrectly stated that the majority of people voted for Pheua Thai. They received the most seats though and that's all that matters.

I think it would be naive to think that people voting for PTP didn't know that the return of Thaksin would be on the cards, so to speak. Why else have some rookie with no political experience head the party?

That they received the most seats allows them to govern.

It doesn't allow then, or their supporters, to use "but that's what 'the country' wanted".