Bangkok's Patpong Is Losing Its Sex Appeal

[Cats4ever]

Patpong kicked off in the 70s, sort of, and those were simpler times. Most of the farangs were on R&R from Vietnam, hippie trail youngsters and business people. Almost no crabby old bastards. It was great and a whole lotta fun from the bars to Bobbie's Arms, which then operated like a pub. If you can get a copy, have a look at Patpong by Alan Dawson which was published in 1988. Printed by Thai Watana Panich Press Co. Ltd. I last went there about 18 months ago. It was O.K. but not great and I avoided the upstairs bars.

[Oberkommando]

A few years ago myself and a few friends made the mistake of going into one of the upstairs bars in Patpong and were told only 90thb for one beer, then the bill came and they tried charging us 400thb each! I'd heard of this scam before so one of us paid (the total for 6 beers at 90thb each) and the rest refused. We were all big lads and we walked downstairs and left without paying a Baht more. The 'bouncers' whoever and wherever they were didn't come to confront us as I think they knew it would get messy. A couple of the lads wanted to have a go anyway but they were calmed down and we continued drinking in another bar.

Just a couple of months ago I returned to Patpong after many years hiatus and one of the downstairs go-go bars hit me with a bill for 4000thb after I had only 2 drinks. I refused to pay, was threatened and I stood outside, called my contact in the Police and let him speak to the old mamasan. After about 20 seconds of discussion she nastily told me to go and I left without paying a single Baht.

It's the only place I have been threatened with physical violence after refusing to buy something from the market too, way back in about 2001 I had a problem with a vendor there as I had to go to the ATM for some cash and he lost the rag with me, started shouting and cursing and poking his finger in my face.

A thoroughly nasty and horrible place it is these days but it is indicative of the way the whole of Thailand is becoming IMO.

[hansnl]

This is actually good news for Thailand. A tourist pointing out that there are other places to go rather than girlie bars.

Splendid news, I am afraid.

Because those tourists go indeed to other places.

Outside Thailand

[Beetlejuice]

This has happened all over Thailand within the adult entertainment scenes, including the North.

These places are no longer user friendly. Greedy business owners, greedy staff and the use of aggressive methods in order to obtain money.

The whole thing has become mechanical and the good humour and fun atmosphere has disappeared. And before anyone says; it`s always been that way, I will disagree. I can remember when these establishments where more sociable and not the aggressive purely for business institutions they have become today.

In the end the grab as much money, for doing as little as possible, in the shortest possible time attitudes, doesn't work.

I just see this as more nails in the coffin for the Thai tourist industry and whether some dislike the sex scene in Thailand, it did bring in the dollars.

I would love to see some statistics in real terms of how much money Thailand is losing year by year with it`s every dwindling tourist industry.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[BigJohnson]

HOW DARE THESE GIRLS LOOK BORED AND WANT MONEY! PERHAPS IF THESE ESTABLISHMENTS RAISED THEIR HIRING STANDARDS AND RAN A WANTED AD SUCH AS THE ONE BELOW THAILAND CAN BRING ITS SEX REPUTATION BACK UP TO THE GOOD OL'GLORY DAYS..

WANTED: Very young girls (daughters of expats welcome to apply) to perform sexual acts and degrade themselves for the pleasure of the humanitarian upstanding gentleman that come to engage in intelligent conversation and bless these girls with their presence. All girls must be genuinely enthusiatic and they should NOT apply for this illustrious position if they are just looking to make money. Most imporantly, girls must be happy that they are recieving attention from these fine gentleman whose only interest in these girls is to educate them and perhaps throw them a baht or two.

Now...Every expat who has young daughters at home raise your hands if you are interested in signing them up. No takers? I guess it could be a bit awkward to walk into your favorite establishment and watch your daughter performing for your peers.

[Oberkommando]

This has happened all over Thailand within the adult entertainment scenes, including the North.

These places are no longer user friendly. Greedy business owners, greedy staff and the use of aggressive methods in order to obtain money.

The whole thing has become mechanical and the good humour and fun atmosphere has disappeared. And before anyone says; it`s always been that way, I will disagree. I can remember when these establishments where more sociable and not the aggressive purely for business institutions they have become today.

In the end the grab as much money, for doing as little as possible, in the shortest possible time attitudes, doesn't work.

I just see this as more nails in the coffin for the Thai tourist industry and whether some dislike the sex scene in Thailand, it did bring in the dollars.

I would love to see some statistics in real terms of how much money Thailand is losing year by year with it`s every dwindling tourist industry.

Good post and exactly why I enjoy drinking in Phnom Penh much more than Bangkok these days; friendlier locals and less pushy.

Hun Sen also banned go-go bars a while back so it doesn't seem as sleazy as Patpong, Cowboy or Nana.

While we are on the topic of red light areas losing their appeal, anyone remember the red-light area at Saphan Kwai? Used to be several bars there.

[alanferdi]

A hot spot for the sex trade?

" "It was a "must see" part of the Bangkok culture for visitors to Thailand." <deleted>........

The seady side of Thailand is a must see for visitors...... Isn't prostitution ilegal in Thailand? This article seems to be promoting the ilegal activity. Come to Thailand and visit our bargirls. Nope I think the Dancing man option is a better idea promoting the real cultural heart of Thailand.

Well, Positive note isnt it! Well the question is who are the tourist nowadays? Its the "groupers" They go in a group to buy booze from a 7 Eleven, They go in a group to visit a mall. They go in a group to visit the bars...so the bar girls nowadays spread open their arms to the groupers who would like to get a photograph as a group with a Thai lady scantly dressed women looking "sexy" in a group photo. But I am happy its changing.... so are the chinese, Indian and Japanese who have a chance to be a part of the photo.

[falangjim]

HOW DARE THESE GIRLS LOOK BORED AND WANT MONEY! PERHAPS IF THESE ESTABLISHMENTS RAISED THEIR HIRING STANDARDS AND RAN A WANTED AD SUCH AS THE ONE BELOW THAILAND CAN BRING ITS SEX REPUTATION BACK UP TO THE GOOD OL'GLORY DAYS..

WANTED: Very young girls (daughters of expats welcome to apply) to perform sexual acts and degrade themselves for the pleasure of the humanitarian upstanding gentleman that come to engage in intelligent conversation and bless these girls with their presence. All girls must be genuinely enthusiatic and they should NOT apply for this illustrious position if they are just looking to make money. Most imporantly, girls must be happy that they are recieving attention from these fine gentleman whose only interest in these girls is to educate them and perhaps throw them a baht or two.

Now...Every expat who has young daughters at home raise your hands if you are interested in signing them up. No takers? I guess it could be a bit awkward to walk into your favorite establishment and watch your daughter performing for your peers.

Now you blame the customers? Rich...rich indeed.

[BigBikeBKK]

Nana and Cowboy can be good for a laugh, Patpong is just gross.

But if you really want to go whoring, Pattaya is hard to beat

[BigBikeBKK]

No surprise that with dwindling farang sex tourists the farang red light districts are in decline.

Fortunately the red light districts that cater mainly to Thais and other Asians are still in full swing!

Party On!

[Beetlejuice]

This is actually good news for Thailand. A tourist pointing out that there are other places to go rather than girlie bars.

I agree 100%...Why would anyone want to have the first impression of Thailand as a sex hole...? A shaved "gash" between some mindless womans legs dancing in front of my face, IS NOT THAILAND...! If that is what you come here for then just stay home...It's obvious that these guys that DO come here for that, have the mentality of a 14 year old...When I arrived here for the first time I too was taken for a tour of the girly bars and thought it was a really bad PR move on the person that hosted me...I have better and more worthwhile things to do here than watch some hard up women perform for even more ugly,overweight, sex starved, hard up idiots...Good luck to all of you that promote this crap...But I can do without seeing a farm girl shove objects up and into places in her body that don't belong there...Not to mention the amount of money those idiots spend to satisfy some unfulfilled childhood fantasy there mothers could not provide...

I totally disagree.

The sex scene in Thailand is only there for people who go and look for it, it`s definitely not in your face or the first thing that hits the tourists as they land in Thailand, although the Western media with they’re hyped up reports would have us believe otherwise

It is still possible for tourists to visit and enjoy Thailand without even seeing these places. So for those good decent wholesome folk, who believe these places are the houses of sin, can easily avoid them. It`s that simple.

I do hate the prim and proper merchants who preach the immoralities of the adult entertainment industries of Thailand. Most of them are hypocrites. Those who allege that they only went because a friend took them is BS. Why did they go, was it for research purposes or because they were naive or just curious? What did they expect to see in those joints, girls taking choir practice?

Many tourists and expats are over 21, footloose and fancy free and have the right of choice, whether to visit these places or avoid them, instead of being constantly reminded of the errors of their ways.

You will find that these establishments are beneficial to Thailand as they bring in the coffers. For those that the adult entertainments of Thailand are not their scene, there are plenty of other pursuits available in the kingdom.

Thailand has always been renowned for it`s anything goes image, especially the girly scene, like it or not. Dismantling these establishments would be like taking the gambling out of Las Vegas, what’s the difference?

In the end it`s all about business, money and bringing in money to the country.

Welcome to the real world.

[DocN]

HOW DARE THESE GIRLS LOOK BORED AND WANT MONEY! PERHAPS IF THESE ESTABLISHMENTS RAISED THEIR HIRING STANDARDS AND RAN A WANTED AD SUCH AS THE ONE BELOW THAILAND CAN BRING ITS SEX REPUTATION BACK UP TO THE GOOD OL'GLORY DAYS..

WANTED: Very young girls (daughters of expats welcome to apply) to perform sexual acts and degrade themselves for the pleasure of the humanitarian upstanding gentleman that come to engage in intelligent conversation and bless these girls with their presence. All girls must be genuinely enthusiatic and they should NOT apply for this illustrious position if they are just looking to make money. Most imporantly, girls must be happy that they are recieving attention from these fine gentleman whose only interest in these girls is to educate them and perhaps throw them a baht or two.

Now...Every expat who has young daughters at home raise your hands if you are interested in signing them up. No takers? I guess it could be a bit awkward to walk into your favorite establishment and watch your daughter performing for your peers.

Good one!

[blackthorn2005]

How did this article get published? It's terribly written, it's basically a series of bullet points. News.com.au travel section isn't real news, it's mostly advertorials.

Totally agree about the way it is written, she says she went with 5 women and 2 men and then states "There were more women guests in the bar than men, something that surprised me" Must be blonde!

[tamsom]

Pat Pong was originally named after a Han businessman in the 1960s. I had the misfortune of going to an upstairs bar in 1985. 60 baht Sings were on the menu, but 1000 baht for the show. Luckily, I was with 2 other amigos. The door was locked so I told the bouncers that I was not put on the earth for this crap; they backed down and we left without a sip of beer, but did leave 200 baht on the table.

Change, decay, and growth are recurrent themes in Earth's history. Patpong is a dump! Patpong is finito! The Gay scene is the only rivet along with Soi Taniya(Yipoon). Bobby's arms was a great place. Go to the river for cuisine and honest conversation.

Adios

[FunkyGuru]

OMG, what do we do now?

What will happen to all those tourists who would be disappointed when they will come to visit Thailand to experience the 'world famous' night life? Gees did anyone think about that? Those poor more than middle age pot bellied gents from around the world, would be so disappointed. Add to the worries, Phuket is run over (or is it run down) by Lady Boys. Pattaya is anyway is leading the pack in the category of most confused, freak town of Thailand. With all sorts of stories coming out of Pattaya, oops I don't think anyone wants to be there.

I don't claim to be some saint and holier then thou so all those eager to bash me, drop your trout. I remember my first visit to this legendary Patpong, in 2001. Not at all impressed. In fact it was depressing already in those days. Someone suggested to try other alternative venue. Nana was top of the list. Then there were interesting other names around in those days. One was funnily called 'Clinton Plaza' aptly named after the US president Bill Clinton and his white house scandal.

Ok cutting the long story short, none of those places were exciting at all. Maybe I was hoping/expecting something else. All those culture cops, hold your guns. Understand and remember, these places are legally operational as they fall under legally accepted 'adult entertainment' class. What transpires between two consenting adults is none of our business. Also please do keep your views very clear. I do not support or promote exploitation and or prostitution. So hold your thought before you start bashing.

Back to what I was saying. Between End 2001 and till mid 2002, I covered almost all the 'touristy' centres of Thailand. None, to be honest, was exciting. All of them has this tone of boredom, exploitation and misery painted all over it. There was tragedy to be seen everywhere. There was sadness everywhere. Not really fun! in my view. Yes to say it plainly, the girls dancing on the pole were bored to death. Music was just noise and waitresses were not interested in you at all. When you looked around, it was sight of seeing some farang, local who is there because he is either part owner of the place or the place belongs to his mate. He is probably drinking away because his Thai wife has just annoyed him beyond tolerable limits (or something like that). The other farangs, yes indeed you guessed it. Were those hopeful tourists who wanted to see the 'action' part of Thai culture. They too were disappointed.

Refreshing your memories, the renegade prime minister of Thailand Mr. Thaksin, around this time/period, when he was still popular PM, brought in some rules that curbed the night activities. I think the rules like 02:00 hrs strict shut down etc were implemented then. This was one move that was made under the pretext of cleaning the image of Thailand. It also sort of fuelled the death of farang dependent night spots. Since then I have seen the whole business going only one way. Down, down and down.

The bigger question that baffles me is, as per to sources, this 'industry' or Patpong are just symbolic and have a spotlight as they are associated with farangs. What about the real shady side of this industry that caters to Thai's only. Those Karaoke bars, those VIP clubs, Massage Parlours, Lounges ... and all that is still tip of the iceberg. There is too much to it then what meets the eye. During my stay there, I was lucky to break the barriers and visit these places and more. The story is sad every where. The industry is dying for sure. Or maybe not. Yes it is losing it's luster. There is desperation. There is definitely lack of spending by customers.

What is attributing it? Lack of demand or lack of supply? I say both. Now with more opportunities of employment, so much of media footage spent on educating people on simple life and staying away from glamour and glory, I think it is working. The supply of poor isaan girls is dwindling. They are becoming smarter, wiser and more industrious. Finding employment elsewhere.

...

Sorry this is getting too long. So I till cut it here. The point is, why should a farang be sad when Patpong is losing it's luster?

Whatever I have expressed, is based on my personal experience and view. No offence meant or intended to anyone. I could have written an entire essay, but then again, this is not the place for that. Thank you for reading. :jap:

If you have question, intelligent ones, please do post/PM them to me. Don't bother if they are going to be comments or judgemental remarks on my character. Without knowing who I am and what was I doing exploring the 'industry', I think it would be unfair to pass judgement on me. Thank you.

[cpofc]

OMG, what do we do now?

What will happen to all those tourists who would be disappointed when they will come to visit Thailand to experience the 'world famous' night life? Gees did anyone think about that? Those poor more than middle age pot bellied gents from around the world, would be so disappointed. Add to the worries, Phuket is run over (or is it run down) by Lady Boys. Pattaya is anyway is leading the pack in the category of most confused, freak town of Thailand. With all sorts of stories coming out of Pattaya, oops I don't think anyone wants to be there.

I don't claim to be some saint and holier then thou so all those eager to bash me, drop your trout. I remember my first visit to this legendary Patpong, in 2001. Not at all impressed. In fact it was depressing already in those days. Someone suggested to try other alternative venue. Nana was top of the list. Then there were interesting other names around in those days. One was funnily called 'Clinton Plaza' aptly named after the US president Bill Clinton and his white house scandal.

Ok cutting the long story short, none of those places were exciting at all. Maybe I was hoping/expecting something else. All those culture cops, hold your guns. Understand and remember, these places are legally operational as they fall under legally accepted 'adult entertainment' class. What transpires between two consenting adults is none of our business. Also please do keep your views very clear. I do not support or promote exploitation and or prostitution. So hold your thought before you start bashing.

Back to what I was saying. Between End 2001 and till mid 2002, I covered almost all the 'touristy' centres of Thailand. None, to be honest, was exciting. All of them has this tone of boredom, exploitation and misery painted all over it. There was tragedy to be seen everywhere. There was sadness everywhere. Not really fun! in my view. Yes to say it plainly, the girls dancing on the pole were bored to death. Music was just noise and waitresses were not interested in you at all. When you looked around, it was sight of seeing some farang, local who is there because he is either part owner of the place or the place belongs to his mate. He is probably drinking away because his Thai wife has just annoyed him beyond tolerable limits (or something like that). The other farangs, yes indeed you guessed it. Were those hopeful tourists who wanted to see the 'action' part of Thai culture. They too were disappointed.

Refreshing your memories, the renegade prime minister of Thailand Mr. Thaksin, around this time/period, when he was still popular PM, brought in some rules that curbed the night activities. I think the rules like 02:00 hrs strict shut down etc were implemented then. This was one move that was made under the pretext of cleaning the image of Thailand. It also sort of fuelled the death of farang dependent night spots. Since then I have seen the whole business going only one way. Down, down and down.

The bigger question that baffles me is, as per to sources, this 'industry' or Patpong are just symbolic and have a spotlight as they are associated with farangs. What about the real shady side of this industry that caters to Thai's only. Those Karaoke bars, those VIP clubs, Massage Parlours, Lounges ... and all that is still tip of the iceberg. There is too much to it then what meets the eye. During my stay there, I was lucky to break the barriers and visit these places and more. The story is sad every where. The industry is dying for sure. Or maybe not. Yes it is losing it's luster. There is desperation. There is definitely lack of spending by customers.

What is attributing it? Lack of demand or lack of supply? I say both. Now with more opportunities of employment, so much of media footage spent on educating people on simple life and staying away from glamour and glory, I think it is working. The supply of poor isaan girls is dwindling. They are becoming smarter, wiser and more industrious. Finding employment elsewhere.

...

Sorry this is getting too long. So I till cut it here. The point is, why should a farang be sad when Patpong is losing it's luster?

Whatever I have expressed, is based on my personal experience and view. No offence meant or intended to anyone. I could have written an entire essay, but then again, this is not the place for that. Thank you for reading. :jap:

If you have question, intelligent ones, please do post/PM them to me. Don't bother if they are going to be comments or judgemental remarks on my character. Without knowing who I am and what was I doing exploring the 'industry', I think it would be unfair to pass judgement on me. Thank you.

Ahh Nostalgia aint what it used to be.

I suggested to my Thai friends over 10 years ago that they should bulldoze Patpong into the ground and turn it into a Car Park.

For those, like me, who frequented this place during the days of the VN War, will have reasonably fond memories of it. Of all the R&R Detinations on offer at the time Bangkok was by far the most popular, I was navy and visited regulary in Warships, which berthed at Khlong Toei. Even in those days our Defence Attaches would come down for a visit and offer 'warnings' of places to stay away from. The Upstairs Bars such as the 'Missipsippi Queen' were notrorious for their Cover Charge. Where it cost nothing to get in, but could cost you an 'arm and a leg' (sometimes literally) to get down the stairs and out of the place. And there was also the infamous upstairs Kangaroo Bar! Even by the early 80's it was still a good place to visit. Still unbothered by touts and con men. Still able to walk up the middle of the street unhindered. The opening of the first full on Night Club - The Superstar Disco. There was the one and only 'King's Castle' Bar where on entry one would be asked if he wanted to 'roll the dice'. It was all good until the 'Castle Group' moved in and started buying up everything. People like Rick Maynard who opened the Grand Prix Bar in 1968, the first Go-Go Bar in Patpong saw the writing on the wall and baled out. Then came the hawker stalls that eventually filled the 'famous' street. Basically ruining the whole look, feel and ambience of the place.

I would even take my mother down there when she visited from Australia. it was a favourite of Embassy Staff and Foreign Correspondents - not to mention the odd Soldier of Fortune or two. A few drinks at the Australian Embassy Happy Hour on a Friday, then off for a feed at Bobby's Arms or the Bat Boat and finish off with drinks at the Grand Prix. It was a good night out and a very safe and 'unhindered' venue.

Today it is old, worn out and shabby. It smells. It exists on reputation only and is a very bad advertisement for the Kingdom of Thailand. I can can only but agree with the author of the article.

[jalansanitwong]

YES CPOFC..... you bring back memories of the embassy bar on a friday night bobbys arms, etc. all changed for the worse now or completely gone as in the embassy bar.

kao san road today is no longer a backpacker mecca.. grossly overpriced modern accomodation with KFC and Mcdonalds offering 199 b mac meals. kao san has been ruined by greedy developers who thought they could cash in on hippy farangs. its over now.. kaosan looks like any other boring over developed street in BKK...theyve ruined Thailand's rustic look in only 10 years.

[arthsch]

You've been here a while. It started losing its' appeal as soon as they changed the place into a 'market' with bars. That was a while ago and it has got worse ever since! In the last 20 years I have been there twice ... both times taking friends/visitors/tourists there, and believe me, I didn't want to be there!!

Everybody gets what he deserves. If you dont know how to speak with the girls, you should not go there. They don't like idiots.

[Ulysses G.]

No one on TV likes patpong yet there are currently 600 users reading this topic.

I LOVED it in the old days, but have not visited Patpong in quite a few years due to the bad reports and also general laziness.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[cpofc]

YES CPOFC..... you bring back memories of the embassy bar on a friday night bobbys arms, etc. all changed for the worse now or completely gone as in the embassy bar.

kao san road today is no longer a backpacker mecca.. grossly overpriced modern accomodation with KFC and Mcdonalds offering 199 b mac meals. kao san has been ruined by greedy developers who thought they could cash in on hippy farangs. its over now.. kaosan looks like any other boring over developed street in BKK...theyve ruined Thailand's rustic look in only 10 years.

Not sure quite what year it was 83? 84? I would like to spend quiet lazy afternoons having a Beer with 'Sam', and blokes like Alan Dawson, Jaques Kincaid, Etc, in the blokes corner of the Grand Prix Bar. With Johnny Murdoch making his famous 'Subs' in the kitchen. One afternoon there was a young man propped up at the bar whom I had never seen before. He was English. Apart from Sam there was just the two of us and we got to chatting, as you do. The 'young' man asked me if I had read the Bangkok Post this morning. Indeed I had read it. As I did every morning. No such thing as Sat Tv, Mobile Phones, and the Internet in those days and the Bangkok Post was a 'ritual'. Part of that ritual included reading column 8. It would be the first thing you turned to in the BP in fact. The young man then asked me if I had read Column 8. Of course I had. What did I think of it today? Well, I said, in all honesty, I thought it was very dull and unfunny, not the same as it usually is.

The 'young' man turned and thanked me for my brutally honest, but none to flattering appraisal.

My name is Roger Crutchley, he said,

I just took over the writing of Column 8 that day for the Bangkok Post.

He promised to do better. LOL

and he did!

Edited December 9, 2011 by cpofc

[MyFriend You]

P A T T A Y A

That's why I have lived in Pattaya for the past 20 years ! !

Here in Pattaya, no seedy freak-shows and what's more:

THE SAILING IS GREAT ! ! !

I've lived in both Bangkok and Pattaya - Owned a bar in Pats from 74-78 - Patpong has always been the 'rough & tumble' of ll th spots in BKK, The newest comer upper is Soi Cowboy - anyone remembers Washington Square and Buckskin Joes Village - they had class till someone decided it needed a name Soi Zero, its (rightfully so) closed now Washington Square has been torn down (could always get a fre BBQ Chicken lunch on Sunday) - back to PatPong - The Crown Royal, old Agency haunt, you can still see a lot of bottles with dead people's name on them around the bar, it has class, but it is also in the best part of PatPong, (the Entrance) and you are generally left alone - but lots of the gals(?) are older and normally 'husband'ed up' all have Thai or Farang 'thai' husbands, I know one that has four farrang husbands and three amer-asian babies - alwqays dropped of by her 'Pea Chai' for her shift. Sadly, I know one of the guys she is playing, but not ny business. Patpong has been the subject of many books, gun and heroin runners, remember the 'Buffalow Bar' spelled just like that, a lot of movies show that area, the ownwee was killed, hung by his feet and skinned (alive??) by some nasty Khmer 'business men' no fantasy here - BnB's called it a lover's spat, he was 250 lbs, his wife was about 90, Yep, she was able to haul him up by his feet alright, - Dont'cha know Thai girls are really strong?? - there was a time when you could travel from bar to bar without even going oputside, all the bars were connected by hallways, heard they had a big fire back in the early eighties. nd was the only poart of the ciy Katoi's could safely ply their trade - they were prety much persecuted anywhere else in town - Nope, haven't been to that part of PatPong in 20/25 years, no need, Nana Plaza and Pattaya are they only places I recommend - Oh, you can still have a great time in Soi Cowboy, till they close that place as well as Nana.

[DocN]

In Germany we have a saying, if someone goes on and on about how everything was better...back in the days. We just say "and we also used to have a Kaiser" (not talking about Beckenbauer, mind you!).

What kind of discussion is this?

Vietnam War??? That was the 70's, right???

I guess, if we go further back, Patpong was once a place where the mighty T-Rex roamed freely...

It's sure not the greatest place on earth, but there are still some places you can enjoy - any ping pong- show NOT being one of those.

Just a) use common sense (60 Baht a beer??? Yeah right...!) and b )don't act like a total jerk and I guarantee you, it is not the hell you describe!

Edited December 9, 2011 by DocN

[DocN]

P.S. ...I never really understood the fascination of a woman, moving stuff with her...ahm...downstairs department at high velocity....

[MyFriend You]

In Germany we have a saying, if someone goes on and on about how everything was better...back in the days. We just say "and we also used to have a Kaiser" (not talking about Beckenbauer, mind you!).

What kind of discussion is this?

Vietnam War??? That was the 70's, right???

I guess, if we go further back, Patpong was once a place where the mighty T-Rex roamed freely...

It's sure not the greatest place on earth, but there are still some places you can enjoy - any ping pong- show NOT being one of those.

Just a) use common sense (60 Baht a beer??? Yeah right...!) and b )don't act like a total jerk and I guarantee you, it is not the hell you describe!

Our PatPong favorite is the "Birthday boy, balloon popping party" where the performers shoot paper darts with needle ends and pop the balloons around your head and body - make arrangements ahead of time and surprise the Birthday boy with a B-Day gift he'll never forget, once in a life time experience. :whistling:

[philhal2]

Guess its a bit like a restaurant , to many steaks , to many customers , the quality of the steak drops , the prices go up , the service is non existant , the customers get jaded with really pathetic management , then the customers go find something more attractive , better value and service and so the merry go round goes on its merry way .

I think its time to find a good wife and start living the good life

[falangjim]

OMG, what do we do now?

What will happen to all those tourists who would be disappointed when they will come to visit Thailand to experience the 'world famous' night life? Gees did anyone think about that? Those poor more than middle age pot bellied gents from around the world, would be so disappointed. Add to the worries, Phuket is run over (or is it run down) by Lady Boys. Pattaya is anyway is leading the pack in the category of most confused, freak town of Thailand. With all sorts of stories coming out of Pattaya, oops I don't think anyone wants to be there.

I don't claim to be some saint and holier then thou so all those eager to bash me, drop your trout. I remember my first visit to this legendary Patpong, in 2001. Not at all impressed. In fact it was depressing already in those days. Someone suggested to try other alternative venue. Nana was top of the list. Then there were interesting other names around in those days. One was funnily called 'Clinton Plaza' aptly named after the US president Bill Clinton and his white house scandal.

Ok cutting the long story short, none of those places were exciting at all. Maybe I was hoping/expecting something else. All those culture cops, hold your guns. Understand and remember, these places are legally operational as they fall under legally accepted 'adult entertainment' class. What transpires between two consenting adults is none of our business. Also please do keep your views very clear. I do not support or promote exploitation and or prostitution. So hold your thought before you start bashing.

Back to what I was saying. Between End 2001 and till mid 2002, I covered almost all the 'touristy' centres of Thailand. None, to be honest, was exciting. All of them has this tone of boredom, exploitation and misery painted all over it. There was tragedy to be seen everywhere. There was sadness everywhere. Not really fun! in my view. Yes to say it plainly, the girls dancing on the pole were bored to death. Music was just noise and waitresses were not interested in you at all. When you looked around, it was sight of seeing some farang, local who is there because he is either part owner of the place or the place belongs to his mate. He is probably drinking away because his Thai wife has just annoyed him beyond tolerable limits (or something like that). The other farangs, yes indeed you guessed it. Were those hopeful tourists who wanted to see the 'action' part of Thai culture. They too were disappointed.

Refreshing your memories, the renegade prime minister of Thailand Mr. Thaksin, around this time/period, when he was still popular PM, brought in some rules that curbed the night activities. I think the rules like 02:00 hrs strict shut down etc were implemented then. This was one move that was made under the pretext of cleaning the image of Thailand. It also sort of fuelled the death of farang dependent night spots. Since then I have seen the whole business going only one way. Down, down and down.

The bigger question that baffles me is, as per to sources, this 'industry' or Patpong are just symbolic and have a spotlight as they are associated with farangs. What about the real shady side of this industry that caters to Thai's only. Those Karaoke bars, those VIP clubs, Massage Parlours, Lounges ... and all that is still tip of the iceberg. There is too much to it then what meets the eye. During my stay there, I was lucky to break the barriers and visit these places and more. The story is sad every where. The industry is dying for sure. Or maybe not. Yes it is losing it's luster. There is desperation. There is definitely lack of spending by customers.

What is attributing it? Lack of demand or lack of supply? I say both. Now with more opportunities of employment, so much of media footage spent on educating people on simple life and staying away from glamour and glory, I think it is working. The supply of poor isaan girls is dwindling. They are becoming smarter, wiser and more industrious. Finding employment elsewhere.

...

Sorry this is getting too long. So I till cut it here. The point is, why should a farang be sad when Patpong is losing it's luster?

Whatever I have expressed, is based on my personal experience and view. No offence meant or intended to anyone. I could have written an entire essay, but then again, this is not the place for that. Thank you for reading. :jap:

If you have question, intelligent ones, please do post/PM them to me. Don't bother if they are going to be comments or judgemental remarks on my character. Without knowing who I am and what was I doing exploring the 'industry', I think it would be unfair to pass judgement on me. Thank you.

I'd say the bar scene you describe and which I have been a willing participant in, is more of a tragic-comedy, not just a tragedy as you melodramatically state. You have to go to those places with a big dose that what you are getting is illusion, so play in the illusion, pay your bill and go home. I've had some of the funniest times laughing it up with tourists, seasoned ex-pats and goofy Thai dancers at these places. If all you saw was misery and tragedy around you, that feeling was probably emanating from you as well.

And just what exactly were these "barriers you broke" in visiting a Thai Karaoke club? Are you saying you simply made a Thai male friend to help you get in? Is that what you are saying? You made a friend? Well, bully for you. Gee, I'll have to remember that the next time I casually walk into a Thai Karaoke joint which are in plain view everywhere you look.

Finally, I think you did pretty much write an entire essay. Try giving it a title: "Bored No Matter Where I Go" would be a fitting one.

[KarenBravo]

The Upstairs Bars such as the 'Missipsippi Queen' were notrorious for their Cover Charge.

Your memory is failing you. The Mississippi Queen was never an upstairs bar and they never had a cover charge. It was an ordinary Ago-go bar.

[KarenBravo]

I would love to see some statistics in real terms of how much money Thailand is losing year by year with it`s every dwindling tourist industry.

Here are some statistics that show that you don't know what you're talking about. "Dwindling tourist industry" my arse!

2011 19,500,000 +22.00%

2010 15,936,400 +12.63%

2009 14,149,841 -2.98%

2008 14,584,220 +0.8%

2007 14,464,228 +4.65%

2006 13,821,802 +20.01%

2005 11,516,936 -1.15%

2004 11,650,703

Edited December 9, 2011 by KarenBravo

[enquirer]

I started to read this because over the last four years I have twice stayed in a Silom hotel around soi 3 and 5, once on my own (I am a grandmother), and then with my family and friends during the week of my son's marriage to my Thai daughter-in-law. Seven adults and four young children had a delightful week which no-one will forget (apart from the one year old....)

We went to the Patpong night market with our Thai family, looking for a watch and a leather handbag, and T shirts and toys for the children; bargaining took place with much laughter and friendliness and we still use what we bought.

On my first visit I had met a tailor down Silom whom I had learned to like and trust, and all our wedding clothes and much more besides were made on both visits - reasonable prices, courteous attention, prompt delivery. Even the Thai family, who spent their whole lives in Bangkok, were impressed by this tailor and he dressed my son and his fiancee beautifully. Further up the road we bought silk scarves to go with our new outfits from a lovely lady in her beautiful shop.

We looked round the Hindu Temple further down the road. We spent hours in Lumphini Park at the top of Silom. We ate street food, and went to several restaurants in and around Silom. We took Tuk Tuks everywhere and were never ripped off even when we did not have our Thai relations with us. One Tuk Tuk driver goodnaturedly managed the apparently impossible task of loading my daughter's immense double buggy as well as herself, her sister and four children.

The wedding reception was held in a comfortable hotel just west of Silom.

This is a rather irrelevant posting, I admit, because none of us were looking for sexual titillation. I can never redress the balance against all the people who are rubbishing this area, but I felt the need to try. As soon as my daughter-in-law has her ILR for UK, we will go back as a family, hoping to stay in the same place.

[Yes, I was approached by the usual man offering a Tuk Tuk ride to a jewel factory, but he was easily and politely sent on his way]

[Arkady]

The greatest loss of appeal, comes from the police allowing the scam operators to ply their trade, on the 2nd floor. I have had friends, who are savvy about Thailand get scammed for thousands of baht, after having one or two drinks. The waiter informs their valued patron that either you pay the amount we have asked, or you discuss it with 6 of our bouncers in the back, behind the bar. This is well known, and most people will not go near the place, for this reason. Since the mobs there seem to either control the police, or exert great influence over them, nothing gets done. And since there is zero fight against corruption or mod activity in Thailand, there seems to be little hope of change, or improvement. This is the unspoken reality of Patpong. It is indeed a sad place. I have NEVER, in all the years I have been going there had anyone try to scam me in Soi Cowboy. Of course the drinks are up to 150 baht (even for a soda water!), and the bar fines are up to 700 baht! At least in Pattaya one can get a drink for 70 baht all night long. When will the Bangkok bars get competitive on pricing?

They neither control nor are controlled by the police. They are effectively clients of the police protection racket. All bars pay monthly squeeze to Bangrak police station at a fixed rate. If you wish to threaten and assault customers as a way to charge them more for a substandard product, you just have to pay a higher fixed rate than the others. There is a price for everything and the job of commander of Bangrak is not a cheap position in terms of upfront cost and ongoing monthly rental fees. That a creates a lot of pressure on monthly quotas all the way down the pyramid.

Having said that the Tourist Police are not part of the Bangrak business model. If you are caught in one of these clip joints the best thing to do is to negotiate a lower price in a calm voice and then ask the tourist police to go with you and get your money back. Tell careful note of the name of the bar and what is in it in terms of fixtures and fittings as they will try to argue that you must have been in another bar. Expats should tell the tourist police they are tourists and give the name of a hotel. The tourist police will otherwise claim that you are not a tourist and that they have no responsibility to protect you.