Can Isaan People Think?

[endure]

I know a guy from an Isaan village who thought his way to a PhD from a major UK university. He now teaches material science at Khon Kaen University. I know another guy from Isaan who thought his way to a PhD in the US followed by a job at NASA. He now teaches at Suranaree University of Technology in Korat.

My wife thought her self all the way to the US, thought her self to a Green card and is now working on becoming a US citizen,Thought her self though owning her own business in the US, and property in Thailand.

And that prompts the question, how much of getting out of Thailand had an effect.

The educational system promotes non-thinking and a non-questioning attitude, yes there are some smart people here, but are they allowed to shine?

In order to get into a foreign university on a postgraduate degree you've got to be pretty bright in the first place but I do agree with you. Thailand is heaving with talent. It's just that most of them never get a chance to show it.

[endure]

The OP's overall premise is about "intellectual capacity" (please review his post). Therein lies the offensive nature of his post. There is a difference between "intellectual capacity" and differences between cultures about planning.

Thailand has always been a place where your next meal is five steps from the back door (chicken coop, banana or mango tree, the stocked rice hut, etc.) Your next material need is satisfied ten steps down the road (local shop).

You are probably from a northern country where your ancestors had to can veggies and fruit, dry or salt your meat for half the year just so you could survive the coming winter. Add to that, digging a root cellar, stocking up on firewood to keep from freezing, etc., etc.. You can't escape your cultural psyche to plan ad infinitum, which looks absolutely ridiculous and paranoid to your Thai friends, always wondering why you are so "up tight."

Ten trips to the convenience store 50 meters down the lane, where you can socialize, catch up on the village gossip, etc., just may be a less-stressful lifestyle than fretting over a grocery list once a week and trying to get all your shopping done in a couple hours at Big C.

Remember that even home refrigeration is a relatively recent development in Thai society, to enable them to keep their meat fresh for the next day's meal. Most still prefer to get their veggies and meat fresh daily, and use the fridge for keeping the drinking water or beer cold. Your fridge--or probably freezer--is undoubtedly full of a year's supply of steaks, sausages, frozen veggies and schnitzel.

Can Thai villagers plan ahead? Absolutely! Their long-term planning ability shines in their activities surrounding the annual rice cycle where they take great long-term pains to plant, irrigate, re-plant, weed, harvest, thresh, bag, build and stock the rice hut, etc. Fruit farmers, especially, plan long-term (years) and are quite successful at it.

Relax, all you stressed-out Dorothys out there; you're not in Kansas any more where the root cellar beckons you to fretfully plan your escape from hunger or tornadoes.

[sirineou]

The OP's overall premise is about "intellectual capacity" (please review his post). Therein lies the offensive nature of his post. There is a difference between "intellectual capacity" and differences between cultures about planning.

Thailand has always been a place where your next meal is five steps from the back door (chicken coop, banana or mango tree, the stocked rice hut, etc.) Your next material need is satisfied ten steps down the road (local shop).

You are probably from a northern country where your ancestors had to can veggies and fruit, dry or salt your meat for half the year just so you could survive the coming winter. Add to that, digging a root cellar, stocking up on firewood to keep from freezing, etc., etc.. You can't escape your cultural psyche to plan ad infinitum, which looks absolutely ridiculous and paranoid to your Thai friends, always wondering why you are so "up tight."

Ten trips to the convenience store 50 meters down the lane, where you can socialize, catch up on the village gossip, etc., just may be a less-stressful lifestyle than fretting over a grocery list once a week and trying to get all your shopping done in a couple hours at Big C.

Remember that even home refrigeration is a relatively recent development in Thai society, to enable them to keep their meat fresh for the next day's meal. Most still prefer to get their veggies and meat fresh daily, and use the fridge for keeping the drinking water or beer cold. Your fridge--or probably freezer--is undoubtedly full of a year's supply of steaks, sausages, frozen veggies and schnitzel.

Can Thai villagers plan ahead? Absolutely! Their long-term planning ability shines in their activities surrounding the annual rice cycle where they take great long-term pains to plant, irrigate, re-plant, weed, harvest, thresh, bag, build and stock the rice hut, etc. Fruit farmers, especially, plan long-term (years) and are quite successful at it.

Relax, all you stressed-out Dorothys out there; you're not in Kansas any more where the root cellar beckons you to fretfully plan your escape from hunger or tornadoes.

I echo these sentiments, Fookhaht presented a well thought , eloquent assessment.

[Travel2003]

OP has spent years in a little village.

Obviously bored to death, he has started to "research" the village (including neigbouring villages).

He concludes his years of studies with the question whether the people in the region (about 25-30+ million of them?) can think?

Question to OP, what were you thinking???

lol

[cardholder]

Give me lots of mai bpen rai! The best way to avoid stress, anxiety, depression and all those associated conditions that plague the lives of so many westerners struggling with life in their respective countries.

I agree entirely - except when you want to get anything done.

[norwayeagle]

Feudalistic society.

Yes indeed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism

[norwayeagle]

OP has spent years in a little village.

Obviously bored to death, he has started to "research" the village (including neigbouring villages).

He concludes his years of studies with the question whether the people in the region (about 25-30+ million of them?) can think?

Question to OP, what were you thinking???

lol

Who are you to Jugde, lol

[Thaddeus]

I know a guy from an Isaan village who thought his way to a PhD from a major UK university. He now teaches material science at Khon Kaen University. I know another guy from Isaan who thought his way to a PhD in the US followed by a job at NASA. He now teaches at Suranaree University of Technology in Korat.

My wife thought her self all the way to the US, thought her self to a Green card and is now working on becoming a US citizen,Thought her self though owning her own business in the US, and property in Thailand.

And that prompts the question, how much of getting out of Thailand had an effect.

The educational system promotes non-thinking and a non-questioning attitude, yes there are some smart people here, but are they allowed to shine?

In order to get into a foreign university on a postgraduate degree you've got to be pretty bright in the first place but I do agree with you. Thailand is heaving with talent. It's just that most of them never get a chance to show it.

I don't want to sound flippant my friend, but most of the planet's population is heaving with talent, name any country where that is positively encouraged? not that many, but there are a few, name a country where it is repressed.... I can only name this one as that is all I have experienced in the last seven years.

It does pain me to say that I have never before inhabited a place were the difference between potential and prospect has been so vast.

[Gonsalviz]

I know a guy from an Isaan village who thought his way to a PhD from a major UK university. He now teaches material science at Khon Kaen University. I know another guy from Isaan who thought his way to a PhD in the US followed by a job at NASA. He now teaches at Suranaree University of Technology in Korat.

My wife thought her self all the way to the US, thought her self to a Green card and is now working on becoming a US citizen,Thought her self though owning her own business in the US, and property in Thailand.

I have never saved as much money in my whole life as since when I meet her, all due to her thinking.I wish I had met her twenty years ago, maybe she could have saved my from my forward western thinking.

My wife has got me well on the way to where yours took you. The green card and the job are already here and the money is pretty well rolling in.

[Gonsalviz]

I know a guy from an Isaan village who thought his way to a PhD from a major UK university. He now teaches material science at Khon Kaen University. I know another guy from Isaan who thought his way to a PhD in the US followed by a job at NASA. He now teaches at Suranaree University of Technology in Korat.

My wife thought her self all the way to the US, thought her self to a Green card and is now working on becoming a US citizen,Thought her self though owning her own business in the US, and property in Thailand.

And that prompts the question, how much of getting out of Thailand had an effect.

The educational system promotes non-thinking and a non-questioning attitude, yes there are some smart people here, but are they allowed to shine?

My wife just got out of Thailand this year. How long would you think it takes to begin shining?

[eek]

As my missus would say:

"Falang have thinking too mutt."

Your missus and my missus on the same wave length. I hear this from my missus regularly.... So I am on a long term program to learn to refrain from any provocative thinking what so ever.

A predictable reaction from bemused Thais who wonder why foreigners are so repulsed by the "mai bpen rai," laid-back, relaxed, host culture they've voluntarily put themselves into.

Give me lots of mai bpen rai! The best way to avoid stress, anxiety, depression and all those associated conditions that plague the lives of so many westerners struggling with life in their respective countries.

All well and good unless something serious happens to you or family or friends. A mai bpen rai attitude with medical care/treatment, or in accident situations, is not a blase' attitude anyone should be faced with. It happens...a lot. If it hasnt happened with you or anyone you know, then im happy for you. Even with simple assembly things can bend your mind. "Official" brand name company mechanics being unable to find obvious problems with a bike for example (boyfriend fixed it himself)..and another time placing a back wheel on the front and when pointed out was met with a makes no difference mai pben rai attitude. (This was in CM though, not Isaan). Bad workmanship is pretty common and again met with a blase' attitude. Safety standards are practically none existent. In the biggest mall here in CM their "Lanna Village", which is supposed to stock traditionally made lanna crafts have labels they forgot to peel off saying "made in China". I also have to say i agree with Thaddeus. I do see many people who really dont wish to know anything much at all, let alone further themselves intellectually or academically.

Im not saying there isnt much that i love here too, im just saying what i generally see. I have no rose tinted glasses on and im not blind to the things that actually concern me. A mai pben rai attitude is great in many ways, but for me not with the important factors. I wish there was more of a balance.

[Jezz]

A mai pben rai attitude is great in many ways, but for me not with the important factors. I wish there was more of a balance.

I take your point about possible downsides to too much Mai pben rai attitude. I was referring light-heartedly to accepting it's something we live with here, and it's not a bad thing to adjust to it. On the subject of health, accidents etc; yes, I've had a number of those to face in my Thai family – F.I.L. months in hospital with badly broken leg following motorbike accident because both he and the youngster on the other bike used too much Mai pben rai and little attention to checking before making a turn. Both my young boys came unstuck on pushbikes recently after hitting a bad pothole in the road outside the house – fortunately only minor scratches and bruises. Despite my teaching, begging and pleading to take care, they ignored the advice. But if I lived life on the edge all the time worrying about what next, it'd only bring on stress, so I adapt to accepting a bit of Mai pben rai as a way of processing thoughts and retaining a degree of sanity when all else fails.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Jezz

[Thaddeus]

I know a guy from an Isaan village who thought his way to a PhD from a major UK university. He now teaches material science at Khon Kaen University. I know another guy from Isaan who thought his way to a PhD in the US followed by a job at NASA. He now teaches at Suranaree University of Technology in Korat.

My wife thought her self all the way to the US, thought her self to a Green card and is now working on becoming a US citizen,Thought her self though owning her own business in the US, and property in Thailand.

And that prompts the question, how much of getting out of Thailand had an effect.

The educational system promotes non-thinking and a non-questioning attitude, yes there are some smart people here, but are they allowed to shine?

My wife just got out of Thailand this year. How long would you think it takes to begin shining?

As her level of opportunity has now increased and level of repression has dropped, that is now dependant on her level of desire and your level of support.

And how hard you polish her

[mario299]

My wife just got out of Thailand this year. How long would you think it takes to begin shining?

As her level of opportunity has now increased and level of repression has dropped, that is now dependant on her level of desire and your level of support.

And how hard you polish her

She's Polish? I thought he said Thai wife...?

[Thaddeus]

She's Polish? I thought he said Thai wife...?

Small p dear chap.

[Travel2003]

OP has spent years in a little village.

Obviously bored to death, he has started to "research" the village (including neigbouring villages).

He concludes his years of studies with the question whether the people in the region (about 25-30+ million of them?) can think?

Question to OP, what were you thinking???

lol

Who are you to Jugde, lol

Ahh, there you are.

Was wondering when you would appear.

Let me see, Im pretty sure I was judging the OP.

Was that not clear to you?

;-)

OP is judging 25 million people (generalizing), and Im judging one single individual (OP).

[Semper]

Wow!! Me thinks there was not a lot of thinking involved in the above OP

On the contrary.

[norwayeagle]

OP has spent years in a little village.

Obviously bored to death, he has started to "research" the village (including neigbouring villages).

He concludes his years of studies with the question whether the people in the region (about 25-30+ million of them?) can think?

Question to OP, what were you thinking???

lol

Who are you to Jugde, lol

Ahh, there you are.

Was wondering when you would appear.

Let me see, Im pretty sure I was judging the OP.

Was that not clear to you?

;-)

OP is judging 25 million people (generalizing), and Im judging one single individual (OP).

Hehe you wont get it do you .

[sirineou]

I know a guy from an Isaan village who thought his way to a PhD from a major UK university. He now teaches material science at Khon Kaen University. I know another guy from Isaan who thought his way to a PhD in the US followed by a job at NASA. He now teaches at Suranaree University of Technology in Korat.

My wife thought her self all the way to the US, thought her self to a Green card and is now working on becoming a US citizen,Thought her self though owning her own business in the US, and property in Thailand.

And that prompts the question, how much of getting out of Thailand had an effect.

The educational system promotes non-thinking and a non-questioning attitude, yes there are some smart people here, but are they allowed to shine?

That is actually a pretty good observation.But the original question was, "can people in Isaan think" . Obviously they can, In Thailand they think with in the constrains of their

culture, the same as we think with in the constrains of our culture, to do otherwise would be eccentric. When my wife came to the US she had different opportunities than in Thailand, and there was also a lot more expected of her, and she rose to the occasion.So part of the problem in Thailand might be , low expectations.But it is certainly not that they cant think.

Having said all that I would agree with you that the environment in Thailand is not conducive for independent thought and personal success.But given all the obstacles that Thai people face I am always amazed how much they do with so little.

If I was asked to use one word to describe The Thai people, I would say, Resourceful

Edited December 13, 2011 by sirineou

[TexasRanger]

Of course they can think, what a ridiculous question.

The people I know have no concept of the technology that I use at work and dont need to either, but the other day I saw a tool someone had made up there that was fairly simple but increased output by about 150%. Very smart. Of course they can think.

[Gary A]

Generalizing is never accurate. My farm girl wife has very little education, BUT, she doesn't think days, weeks or even months ahead. She thinks years ahead. I must admit that she also has much more patience than I do.

[Travel2003]

Generalizing is never accurate. My farm girl wife has very little education, BUT, she doesn't think days, weeks or even months ahead. She thinks years ahead. I must admit that she also has much more patience than I do.

Almost as I would have said it.

:-)

When I got married, she did not want to go on a honeymoon. She wanted to save those money for the future (and house).

She even didnt want to have a traditional Isaan wedding, because she wanted to save those money for the future as well, and not spend them on one big party.

Not highly educated, but smart.

Again, one can be intelligent without higher education.

One can think without a PHD.

[bobbysan124]

As the days go by here in the little Isaan village where I have temporarily put up for the last few years, I have been trying to understand the people who live here and work

out if they can really 'think'.

I spend a lot of time in the village and surrounding villages researching if the locals in one village have a intellectual capacity greater than the lot in the other. So far my findings are that they are all much the same, however you do have a few black sheep who can think past the next hour and one woman who manages to think to the week ahead. But that's as far as it goes.

I was wondering if other forum members have come across this and would be of interest how they managed to get these people thinking if at all?

Cheers

To be sure there's a fair few dunderheads around. But I've found that to be true for every single area of Thailand I've visited. But to cast a net over all Isaan folks just doesn't cut it (not referring to to you OP.)Quite a few posters on this forum who like to knock the Issanites most probably havean actual experience of Isaan commensurate with my experience of Kazakhstan pig farming. I personally know 2 Isaan business families whose assets make me and every other person on this forum look like paupers and my surgeon and specialist ( 2 blokes I admire greatly ) are both "Children of sticky rice" along with countless others successfully making their way through life.

All of which would seem to indicate some ability at "thought'

great post !! isaan is no different to many parts of the world ... travel through the USA it is an eye opener ...

Better yet, travel anywhere in the world and you'll no doubt find a fair share of the brilliant, the dull, the good, bad and ugly, and everything in between.

[bobbysan124]

Generalizing is never accurate. My farm girl wife has very little education, BUT, she doesn't think days, weeks or even months ahead. She thinks years ahead. I must admit that she also has much more patience than I do.

Almost as I would have said it. :-) When I got married, she did not want to go on a honeymoon. She wanted to save those money for the future (and house). She even didnt want to have a traditional Isaan wedding, because she wanted to save those money for the future as well, and not spend them on one big party. Not highly educated, but smart. Again, one can be intelligent without higher education. One can think without a PHD.

Right on the mark. I've met folks with degrees up the a_shole who could barely tie their own shoes. So, not impressed by paper of any sort - including money.

[eslteacher]

They got it all figured out then. Thats our problem, we think way too much and dont live the lives that we want to live as a result.

[bobbysan124]

They got it all figured out then. Thats our problem, we think way too much and dont live the lives that we want to live as a result.

Nobody has it all figured out.

[lovetotravel]

Generalizing is never accurate. My farm girl wife has very little education, BUT, she doesn't think days, weeks or even months ahead. She thinks years ahead. I must admit that she also has much more patience than I do.

Almost as I would have said it. :-) When I got married, she did not want to go on a honeymoon. She wanted to save those money for the future (and house). She even didnt want to have a traditional Isaan wedding, because she wanted to save those money for the future as well, and not spend them on one big party. Not highly educated, but smart. Again, one can be intelligent without higher education. One can think without a PHD.

Right on the mark. I've met folks with degrees up the a_shole who could barely tie their own shoes. So, not impressed by paper of any sort - including money.

So when you go visit the doc, you don't ask for their certificates? I could careless whether they can tie their own shoes, just whether they can take care of me and have the training and education to do so.

[craigt3365]

An off topic post has been removed from view. :jap:

[Travel2003]

Generalizing is never accurate. My farm girl wife has very little education, BUT, she doesn't think days, weeks or even months ahead. She thinks years ahead. I must admit that she also has much more patience than I do.

Almost as I would have said it. :-) When I got married, she did not want to go on a honeymoon. She wanted to save those money for the future (and house). She even didnt want to have a traditional Isaan wedding, because she wanted to save those money for the future as well, and not spend them on one big party. Not highly educated, but smart. Again, one can be intelligent without higher education. One can think without a PHD.

Right on the mark. I've met folks with degrees up the a_shole who could barely tie their own shoes. So, not impressed by paper of any sort - including money.

So when you go visit the doc, you don't ask for their certificates? I could careless whether they can tie their own shoes, just whether they can take care of me and have the training and education to do so.

When I visit the Doc, it is normally in a bigger hospital, like Bungrumrad, or Samitivej.

I never ask for any certificate from the Doc.

By the way, give me a few days and I will stop by Khao San road in BKK and get my "Brain surgeon" certificate made.

;-)

So much for certificates.

;-)

[lovetotravel]

When I visit the Doc, it is normally in a bigger hospital, like Bungrumrad, or Samitivej.

I never ask for any certificate from the Doc.

By the way, give me a few days and I will stop by Khao San road in BKK and get my "Brain surgeon" certificate made.

;-)

So much for certificates.

;-)

When I was at Bumrungrad, they noticed a potentially blocked artery and wanted to do angio....at a significant amount of money I asked for the doc's certificates before proceeding. He graduated from one of the lesser uni's here in Thailand. I searched around and opted for one at a different hospital and with training in the UK. From undergrad to med school. He looked at the data and said it wasn't worth the money to do the procedure.

He had better certificates...which can easily be checked via the internet.

Don't mean to argue, but degrees really do matter. Especially in cases like this. My life!