A Female Luk Kruengs Viewpoint

[sbk]

I don't know if you are actually a woman with a view or simply trolling, but do keep in mind that while you are quite free to express your opinion

As is she, and with the right to not be abused, harassed or vilified for it. Not that you have done so but many feel that any opposing opinion that they don't think is "right" is open to insults. It is not. So I thought I had just better remind people of that before this goes the route it usually does on this forum.

[tonititan]

Anywhere in the West would be a truly horrid country to be raised female in my opinion.

As a western woman, I can tell you, it's not. I have an awesome life. I'm happy. My "independent" (whatever that is supposed to mean?!?) female friends are happy too. I'm guessing that I wouldn't fit your definition of having a "good life," but I can guarantee you, I'm quite thrilled with the way I've lived my life, and in the direction it is headed. Don't assume that all western women are miserable, man-hating bitches....because we're not.

[nocturn]

SNIPPET

Total rubbish in my opinion. She is just another feministic hi so decency freak preaching her so called moral standards to what she considers as the perverted over here.

She`s got it completely wrong, it`s not so cut and dry as she believes.

Live and let live is my motto, provided we are not doing any harm to others.

please don't blame feminists. I believe it's official at the last Feminazi meeting we're actually for legalizing prostitution and cutting out the various pimps such as the bar owner you pay the fine to. This would also help those women trafficked and betcha they are around too, though you can pretend not.

I have to agree, the worst of the worst of masculinity flock to SEA for the all too nauseatingly usual reasons.

What effects the future adversely is raising daughters to be as reliant on others as their mothers were. to clean house and serve meals and act as sex servants is about the only interest th average sexpat holds in women- any women. (I swear more men would be openly gay if only they would clean their own houses.)

However I don't think the rest of the world is populated by men with their consciousness raised much above the waist, either. They, too have a real aversion to doing housework. Western women have learned to say no thanks, to this chambermaid deal.

She is a disappointed romantic.

What horrid country to be a young women in. I am thankful for my age as I really lived it up in women's heyday which I fear has passed and is in full descent to a middle-ages mentality.

I for one will be raising my daughter to understand the importance and the value of traditional feminine roles. Anywhere in the West would be a truly horrid country to be raised female in my opinion. Independent women are truly nauseating to me. I want someone who is as dependent on me as I am on them. I want someone with whom I can share a bond that is not easily broken by either of us. The movement towards strong women is not a plus. It is a huge net negative and indicative of why the West is in decline.

My wife leads a life every bit as rich as anyone in the West, but she also understands that she does need a man, and I need her. That is why we have been happily married for 10 years, and we will remain happily married until we die. Contrast this with the 50+% divorce rate in the USA and you shouldn't need any more data to see the picture.

Western women believe independence is a good thing because that is what social norms have taught them to believe. Western men go along with this because they need to fit into society. Somewhere deep in everyone psyche they know this is wrong. We evolved to form family units that were dependent on each other for a reason. Being a strong, independent woman may make you feel powerful, but it won't help you have a family. That is what my daughter will learn as she grows up.

The Middle Ages had much to offer us that we have forgotten in our quest for progress. I truly feel sorry for all of us that we are living in the diseased culture we are today. While I do not look forward to the coming collapse of industrial civilization, I do know that many good and necessary things will come of it, chief among them is the reestablishment of social norms where dependence on the opposite gender is considered positive.

I don't know if you are actually a woman with a view or simply trolling, but do keep in mind that while you are quite free to express your opinion, you must realize that many of us moved to Asia because we believe strongly your position is wrong. And I for one am thankful that the idea of strong, independent women is almost finished with its course of destruction.

i for one pity your daughter. will she have to wear a tinfoil hat too?

[Gary A]

I much prefer the traditional man/wife culture. I provide for my wife and she takes care of me. I certainly don't treat her as a slave but she feels she has traditional duties. First is to take proper care of her husband and second is to help her family.

There are certain things that I am forbidden to do. I could elaborate but it concerns typical household chores. I have finally convinced her not to worry about me when she is in the fields working. She would rush home at noon to cook for me. I am perfectly capable of cooking for myself.

I really hate it that she works in the fields because there is no reason for her to have to do that, but again, she says it is her duty.

She is MUCH different than my lazy ex-farang wife. I am quite content and happy for the first time in my life. Of course time will tell. We have only been married about seven years so I am still on my honeymoon.

ADDED - I should add that she really has no need for my financial support. She makes her own money and could do quite well without me.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Gary A

[F1fanatic]

SNIPPET

Total rubbish in my opinion. She is just another feministic hi so decency freak preaching her so called moral standards to what she considers as the perverted over here.

She`s got it completely wrong, it`s not so cut and dry as she believes.

Live and let live is my motto, provided we are not doing any harm to others.

please don't blame feminists. I believe it's official at the last Feminazi meeting we're actually for legalizing prostitution and cutting out the various pimps such as the bar owner you pay the fine to. This would also help those women trafficked and betcha they are around too, though you can pretend not.

I have to agree, the worst of the worst of masculinity flock to SEA for the all too nauseatingly usual reasons.

What effects the future adversely is raising daughters to be as reliant on others as their mothers were. to clean house and serve meals and act as sex servants is about the only interest th average sexpat holds in women- any women. (I swear more men would be openly gay if only they would clean their own houses.)

However I don't think the rest of the world is populated by men with their consciousness raised much above the waist, either. They, too have a real aversion to doing housework. Western women have learned to say no thanks, to this chambermaid deal.

She is a disappointed romantic.

What horrid country to be a young women in. I am thankful for my age as I really lived it up in women's heyday which I fear has passed and is in full descent to a middle-ages mentality.

I for one will be raising my daughter to understand the importance and the value of traditional feminine roles. Anywhere in the West would be a truly horrid country to be raised female in my opinion. Independent women are truly nauseating to me. I want someone who is as dependent on me as I am on them. I want someone with whom I can share a bond that is not easily broken by either of us. The movement towards strong women is not a plus. It is a huge net negative and indicative of why the West is in decline.

My wife leads a life every bit as rich as anyone in the West, but she also understands that she does need a man, and I need her. That is why we have been happily married for 10 years, and we will remain happily married until we die. Contrast this with the 50+% divorce rate in the USA and you shouldn't need any more data to see the picture.

Western women believe independence is a good thing because that is what social norms have taught them to believe. Western men go along with this because they need to fit into society. Somewhere deep in everyone psyche they know this is wrong. We evolved to form family units that were dependent on each other for a reason. Being a strong, independent woman may make you feel powerful, but it won't help you have a family. That is what my daughter will learn as she grows up.

The Middle Ages had much to offer us that we have forgotten in our quest for progress. I truly feel sorry for all of us that we are living in the diseased culture we are today. While I do not look forward to the coming collapse of industrial civilization, I do know that many good and necessary things will come of it, chief among them is the reestablishment of social norms where dependence on the opposite gender is considered positive.

I don't know if you are actually a woman with a view or simply trolling, but do keep in mind that while you are quite free to express your opinion, you must realize that many of us moved to Asia because we believe strongly your position is wrong. And I for one am thankful that the idea of strong, independent women is almost finished with its course of destruction.

Great post! My father taught me that I should go to University etc. etc., but at the same time should cook, clean etc. at home.

Unfortunately (in your opinion), being able to provide for myself, I saw no reason why I should work full-time AND do all the housework at home....

You clearly don't have the faintest idea about Western women and have a romantic notion that women should stay in the kitchen whilst the man goes out to work . This works for some couples, but not all.

[ludditeman]

Unfortunately (in your opinion), being able to provide for myself, I saw no reason why I should work full-time AND do all the housework at home....

You clearly don't have the faintest idea about Western women and have a romantic notion that women should stay in the kitchen whilst the man goes out to work . This works for some couples, but not all.

The western approach

Didn't work for you, and it didn't work for me.

[eslteacher]

I can't vouch for the veracity of the article's authorship, but I gotta say...I've banged loads of "good" Thai girls on the first date. (And without the involvement of alcohol or any other "substances".)

Maybe they weren't as good as you thought.

[meom]

I for one will be raising my daughter to understand the importance and the value of traditional feminine roles. Anywhere in the West would be a truly horrid country to be raised female in my opinion. Independent women are truly nauseating to me.

One measure of independent women would be their participation in the work place which in Thailand is quite high actually.

I think Thai women as whole are much more independent than you are willing to give them credit for.

I also think that's a good thing.

[F1fanatic]

Unfortunately (in your opinion), being able to provide for myself, I saw no reason why I should work full-time AND do all the housework at home....

You clearly don't have the faintest idea about Western women and have a romantic notion that women should stay in the kitchen whilst the man goes out to work . This works for some couples, but not all.

The western approach

Didn't work for you, and it didn't work for me.

Depends on your definition of 'worked'.

From my POV, I have earned my own pension etc.

From your POV (presumably), Western women are to blame for marriages going pear-shaped as they are too 'demanding'.

[Thongkorn]

I Totally Agree with this post. I have said many times on Thai Visa There are many Good Thai Lady's about if you look for them, Where you look for them is a different thing. Maybe I was one of the Lucky ones, I met my wife outside Bangkok ,In the Industrial Area of Sahmut Sahkon. it took nearly two years to ge her Interested in me. Ironically she got the sack because she would not sleep with the Falang Manager of the Factory.Like most of the other girls had to do to keep there jobs,

[stoneyboy]

1323941268[/url]' post='4914070']

I Totally Agree with this post. I have said many times on Thai Visa There are many Good Thai Lady's about if you look for them, Where you look for them is a different thing. Maybe I was one of the Lucky ones, I met my wife outside Bangkok ,In the Industrial Area of Sahmut Sahkon. it took nearly two years to ge her Interested in me. Ironically she got the sack because she would not sleep with the Falang Manager of the Factory.Like most of the other girls had to do to keep there jobs,

Fairy tale ending,nearly brought a tear to my glass eye,what a nice story for a change.

[gregb]

I for one will be raising my daughter to understand the importance and the value of traditional feminine roles. Anywhere in the West would be a truly horrid country to be raised female in my opinion. Independent women are truly nauseating to me.

One measure of independent women would be their participation in the work place which in Thailand is quite high actually.

I think Thai women as whole are much more independent than you are willing to give them credit for.

I also think that's a good thing.

2 income households are a singularly bad idea. I have no problem with women wanting to work. The problem I have is the social issues this creates for the children and the family as a unit. There are times when it is justified. For example, the wife and the husband working together at a family business and bringing their children along to help and learn the trade. But the modern idea that both parents go off to an office for their "career" and leave the children in daycare or with the grandparents is just plain wrong. This is an inherent problem with the capitalist ideals as they exist today. If we could change to a distributist economic model more along the lines of what we had in the Middle Ages, then you might find that men and women would be inherently more equal than they are today, the family structure would be healthier, and all without this false ideal of independence. TigerWan has maligned the Middle Ages, but they seemed to escape many of the issues that plague modern society. We should all study that and try and learn from it.

Independence means different things to different people. When it comes to the household, my wife is as independent as anyone. She runs the house the way she wants, and nobody would make the mistake of calling her submissive. And taking care of our 2 kids is an extremely stressful job that is much more difficult than mine. In the remote chance we ever did split up, my wife would deserve at least half if not more of everything we have. She has earned it. The idea that housework is menial and unfulfilling is a modern idea that only came about in the last 50 years. The truth is that it is the backbone of what makes us all human. My children are what they are because my wife is the loving mother she is. That is more important than any job I may have.

What my wife doesn't have, and what I think is a bad idea for society to instil in impressionable young girls, is that you must have a "career", and that you must be capable of making it on your own. These are Western concepts which are slowly poisoning Thailand.

[Berkshire]

When it comes to the household, my wife is as independent as anyone. She runs the house the way she wants, and nobody would make the mistake of calling her submissive. And taking care of our 2 kids is an extremely stressful job that is much more difficult than mine.

I know you mean well, Greg, but if you were to say this in a convention full of, shall we say, "modern women," you'd be mercilessly booed off the stage. Trust me, dude, this attitude will never catch on in the west. They're well passed that. Unless you're talking the Amish. And the funny thing is I don't necessarily disagree with you.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Berkshire

[cardholder]

I Totally Agree with this post. I have said many times on Thai Visa There are many Good Thai Lady's about if you look for them, Where you look for them is a different thing. Maybe I was one of the Lucky ones, I met my wife outside Bangkok ,In the Industrial Area of Sahmut Sahkon. it took nearly two years to ge her Interested in me. Ironically she got the sack because she would not sleep with the Falang Manager of the Factory.Like most of the other girls had to do to keep there jobs,

Fairy tale ending,nearly brought a tear to my glass eye,what a nice story for a change.

I have always had difficulty in differentiating between irony, sarcasm and truth.

[DocN]

Guys...I am dating a "bar girl" right now!

She is a good woman!

She has to make ends meet, that's why she took that job (spare me the "she is greedy, looking for easy money, a whore" - rant, please!).

She makes me laugh, we take care of and for each other, she is an all around nice person.

It's not WHAT you are- it's WHO you are!

Sorry, forgot the " and " at "dating"....in most TV-posters opinion , I am just "buying" her....

Edited December 16, 2011 by DocN

[morrobay]

This lady should be reminded that if it was not for the type of person she is criticizing - she would not be here now

[Boo]

Being a strong, independent woman may make you feel powerful, but it won't help you have a family.

doesn't seem to have hurt any of my friends or me.

I want to spend my life with my husband, I don't NEED to spend my life with him (11 years & counting). He is much happier, as am I with that knowledge, it stops either one of us allowing any blips to fester through fear of being left destitute. Something a lot of women so heavily reliant on their husband income for their comfort suffer.

So good luck with your lifestyle choice but get off your soap box about mine.

[soomak]

As far as the article writer's musings on farang men, she's right on several points but I think her lack of experience of one half of her heritage is obvious in some parts. Her generalization that Thai men are lazy, cheating drunks is seriously wide of the mark. It reads like grievances passed down from her mother or, perhaps, stories she's heard from other Thai women with a predilection for foreigners. The facts speak for themselves; if Thai women preferred farangs, there'd be a hell of a lot more "luk kreungs" hopping around.

As I said on another thread where the OP was seeking input with regard to impending nuptials with his Thai girlfriend, the overwhelming majority of Thai women would prefer a THAI man for obvious reasons including sharing same culture and language. Adolescent Thai girls don't fantasize about white or black men or pin posters of them on their walls; they have male idols who are distinctively Thai albeit covered with a couple of coats of Dulux Matt White emulsion.

From what I've seen, it is chiefly Thai women of a certain age who are, perhaps, raising one child or more alone that tend to give farang guys the green light since most financially-solid, respectable Thai men will be loathe to take on an over-ripe Thai woman and her spawn. Many farang guys, however, will.

Not true,

Thais definitely have a preference for white skin, narrower faces, and semi western looks.

(and of course tall people)

Almost all commercials I see here are with man or woman who are not typical Thais.

They are either very white Thais, or half Thai half Western.

The women magazines I saw are the same - very white models (relatively speaking..), and many who are definitely not pure Thais.

[Ijustwannateach]

Some Thais I have spoken with for awhile- and made comfortable with the knowledge that I was well aware of the high number of 'difficult' foreigners who visit or live in Thailand- have agreed with me that there are far too many dysfunctional visitors here. Since we're *mainly* talking about men, I'll generalise here a bit and say that the main problem is denial:

1. denial of one's actual age, body type, fitness, social position, medical health;

2. denial of one's financial condition, relative power and importance, or personal authority over others;

3. denial of one's responsibilities outside Thailand, or to non-Thai friends and family, employment, or especially to one's self;

4. denial of the real nature of one's relationships with Thais

These things are made possible here by the following factors, among others:

1. Politeness/reluctance to confront by Thais who notice or are affected by crazy behaviour

2. A mercenary sector of the tourist industry which is willing to go to certain lengths to provide a fantasy existence for the right price(s)

3. A community full of similar types who can reassure each other that they are not wrong/in denial/misbehaving/out of touch/downright barking mad

4. The delusional sense that one is not in the age/stage in life in which one actually is because of the various denial factors

5. Developmental levels providing enough relative foreign comforts and visa-friendliness which permits long-term exercises in delusion

To put it mildly, the foreign male population in Thailand- moreso even than that of many other countries in this region- have some serious problems- and the fact that denial is so easily fostered and maintained here makes it even easier for persons with those problems to think to themselves, 'Ah, well- it was those idiots back home who were wrong, not me!!!' There is little reward and much frustration in trying to challenge such delusional types, and the best thing is to avoid them. I have been in a mode where my foreign male acquaintance has either been holding at steady numbers (when one drops away, a new one may be considered) or even falling over time, because it is rarely worth the risk of getting to know new foreign males in Thailand- and that's said as someone who's not even considering (generally) relationships with most of them. Not recommended.

[richard_smith237]

Being a strong, independent woman may make you feel powerful, but it won't help you have a family.

doesn't seem to have hurt any of my friends or me.

I want to spend my life with my husband, I don't NEED to spend my life with him (11 years & counting). He is much happier, as am I with that knowledge, it stops either one of us allowing any blips to fester through fear of being left destitute. Something a lot of women so heavily reliant on their husband income for their comfort suffer.

So good luck with your lifestyle choice but get off your soap box about mine.

Strength and independence are some of the reasons (after looks of course) I was first attracted to my Wife.

I am now in perpetual fear that due to her strength and independence if I behave like an ass she can leave me and the only ones who can tolerate me are those who require my financial security !!!

[Patronus]

Some Thais I have spoken with for awhile- and made comfortable with the knowledge that I was well aware of the high number of 'difficult' foreigners who visit or live in Thailand- have agreed with me that there are far too many dysfunctional visitors here. Since we're *mainly* talking about men, I'll generalise here a bit and say that the main problem is denial:

1. denial of one's actual age, body type, fitness, social position, medical health;

2. denial of one's financial condition, relative power and importance, or personal authority over others;

3. denial of one's responsibilities outside Thailand, or to non-Thai friends and family, employment, or especially to one's self;

4. denial of the real nature of one's relationships with Thais

These things are made possible here by the following factors, among others:

1. Politeness/reluctance to confront by Thais who notice or are affected by crazy behaviour

2. A mercenary sector of the tourist industry which is willing to go to certain lengths to provide a fantasy existence for the right price(s)

3. A community full of similar types who can reassure each other that they are not wrong/in denial/misbehaving/out of touch/downright barking mad

4. The delusional sense that one is not in the age/stage in life in which one actually is because of the various denial factors

5. Developmental levels providing enough relative foreign comforts and visa-friendliness which permits long-term exercises in delusion

To put it mildly, the foreign male population in Thailand- moreso even than that of many other countries in this region- have some serious problems- and the fact that denial is so easily fostered and maintained here makes it even easier for persons with those problems to think to themselves, 'Ah, well- it was those idiots back home who were wrong, not me!!!' There is little reward and much frustration in trying to challenge such delusional types, and the best thing is to avoid them. I have been in a mode where my foreign male acquaintance has either been holding at steady numbers (when one drops away, a new one may be considered) or even falling over time, because it is rarely worth the risk of getting to know new foreign males in Thailand- and that's said as someone who's not even considering (generally) relationships with most of them. Not recommended.

Do these Thais that you have spoken to for a while (and who seemingly have great knowledge of the volume and demographics of Western visitors) just generalise about these difficult foreigners and do they have a view that it is widespread across all Thailand and is 'typical' of most foreigners.

The Thais, of course, do not experience 'difficult', 'crazy behaviour' or 'dysfunctional' people in their own kind. Perhaps all their village idiots are sent to one place - maybe Pattaya ?

I must be missing something in the part of Thailand that I live - there is a broad spectrum of the good, the bad and the ugly. Pretty much the same as the town I lived in the UK.

Perhaps you (or the Thais to whom you have been speaking) are just mixing in the wrong circles.

[Ijustwannateach]

^Responding to your queries in order:

1. My references to Thais only count for the first sentence (and the parts of the lists which mention Thais), the rest is my own observation.

2. I am not referring to the dysfunctionality of Thais in my message (also it is not the topic of this thread - cf.)

3. You must live in an interesting town if there are enough foreigners to make it seem like where you lived in the UK. I am commenting on foreign males in Thailand, not Thais.

4. Nope, I'm in the right circles- but I am successfully avoiding the wrong ones! Your mileage may vary.

[Patronus]

^Responding to your queries in order:

1. My references to Thais only count for the first sentence (and the parts of the lists which mention Thais), the rest is my own observation.

2. I am not referring to the dysfunctionality of Thais in my message (also it is not the topic of this thread - cf.)

3. You must live in an interesting town if there are enough foreigners to make it seem like where you lived in the UK. I am commenting on foreign males in Thailand, not Thais.

4. Nope, I'm in the right circles- but I am successfully avoiding the wrong ones! Your mileage may vary.

Nope my mileage is fine.

You missed the point entirely with your answer (3). My reference was to the fact that in most communities - be it Thailand, UK, USA etc - there is a mix of the good, the bad and the ugly (Although nowadays there is a greater proportion of foreigners in my former town than there is in any of the towns that I have lived in in Thailand).

Foreigners often enrich their host country with a variety of culture and knowledge and, with the general exception of Pattaya, I would say this true of Thailand. Perhaps your own profession even adds value in this respect.

[Berkshire]

Some Thais I have spoken with for awhile- and made comfortable with the knowledge that I was well aware of the high number of 'difficult' foreigners who visit or live in Thailand- have agreed with me that there are far too many dysfunctional visitors here. Since we're *mainly* talking about men, I'll generalise here a bit and say that the main problem is denial:

1. denial of one's actual age, body type, fitness, social position, medical health;

2. denial of one's financial condition, relative power and importance, or personal authority over others;

3. denial of one's responsibilities outside Thailand, or to non-Thai friends and family, employment, or especially to one's self;

4. denial of the real nature of one's relationships with Thais

These things are made possible here by the following factors, among others:

1. Politeness/reluctance to confront by Thais who notice or are affected by crazy behaviour

2. A mercenary sector of the tourist industry which is willing to go to certain lengths to provide a fantasy existence for the right price(s)

3. A community full of similar types who can reassure each other that they are not wrong/in denial/misbehaving/out of touch/downright barking mad

4. The delusional sense that one is not in the age/stage in life in which one actually is because of the various denial factors

5. Developmental levels providing enough relative foreign comforts and visa-friendliness which permits long-term exercises in delusion

To put it mildly, the foreign male population in Thailand- moreso even than that of many other countries in this region- have some serious problems- and the fact that denial is so easily fostered and maintained here makes it even easier for persons with those problems to think to themselves, 'Ah, well- it was those idiots back home who were wrong, not me!!!' There is little reward and much frustration in trying to challenge such delusional types, and the best thing is to avoid them. I have been in a mode where my foreign male acquaintance has either been holding at steady numbers (when one drops away, a new one may be considered) or even falling over time, because it is rarely worth the risk of getting to know new foreign males in Thailand- and that's said as someone who's not even considering (generally) relationships with most of them. Not recommended.

This is actually quite thought provoking. I agree with much of this. Many of the disillusioned farangs that I see living in Thailand started out by visiting Thailand as tourists, usually Pattaya, Phuket, or BKK. They are treated like kings and are convinced that all Thais see them as the great white God. More importantly, the women that they meet (read bargirls) treat them the same way. But once they move here, they realize that it was all just an illusion. They convince themselves that they were tricked, a "bait and switch," if you will, when in fact, the tourist industry exists to make your short term visit enjoyable, not for you to come and live. And of course, the women never really believed that you're a "hansum man."

[hehehoho]

The woman in the OP sure does sound bitter.

Which I've noticed to be more prevalant among Western women in Thailand then in the West. Not all of course, but certainly a higher %. Seems odd as they're living in such a beautiful country and culture.

Hope that doesn't break any forum rules, just reading them and it doesn't appear to.

[bonobo]

Some Thais I have spoken with for awhile- and made comfortable with the knowledge that I was well aware of the high number of 'difficult' foreigners who visit or live in Thailand- have agreed with me that there are far too many dysfunctional visitors here. Since we're *mainly* talking about men, I'll generalise here a bit and say that the main problem is denial:

1. denial of one's actual age, body type, fitness, social position, medical health;

2. denial of one's financial condition, relative power and importance, or personal authority over others;

3. denial of one's responsibilities outside Thailand, or to non-Thai friends and family, employment, or especially to one's self;

4. denial of the real nature of one's relationships with Thais

These things are made possible here by the following factors, among others:

1. Politeness/reluctance to confront by Thais who notice or are affected by crazy behaviour

2. A mercenary sector of the tourist industry which is willing to go to certain lengths to provide a fantasy existence for the right price(s)

3. A community full of similar types who can reassure each other that they are not wrong/in denial/misbehaving/out of touch/downright barking mad

4. The delusional sense that one is not in the age/stage in life in which one actually is because of the various denial factors

5. Developmental levels providing enough relative foreign comforts and visa-friendliness which permits long-term exercises in delusion

To put it mildly, the foreign male population in Thailand- moreso even than that of many other countries in this region- have some serious problems- and the fact that denial is so easily fostered and maintained here makes it even easier for persons with those problems to think to themselves, 'Ah, well- it was those idiots back home who were wrong, not me!!!' There is little reward and much frustration in trying to challenge such delusional types, and the best thing is to avoid them. I have been in a mode where my foreign male acquaintance has either been holding at steady numbers (when one drops away, a new one may be considered) or even falling over time, because it is rarely worth the risk of getting to know new foreign males in Thailand- and that's said as someone who's not even considering (generally) relationships with most of them. Not recommended.

On the other hand, is this "denial" so bad?

I work here, and except for monthly VFW meeting, socialize mostly with Thais. I don't have the time nor inclination to go to the bars. (The last time I was in a bar was to take a visiting customer 2 or 3 years ago. ) So what follows is not based on personal predilections nor trying to justify my own lifestyle.

If a western man chooses to live out the remainder of his life playing the bar scene, "denying" his age, health, real relationship with Thais, etc., and if there are "mercenary" Thais, who support that lifestyle, who cares? What is wrong with the "delusion" that one is not at a given "age/stage of life.?" As I get older, I hope I never feel the need to act or conduct myself as others feel is appropriate for an older man.

Back in San Diego, I knew an Italian immigrant in his mid 80's. He lived in a tiny closet of an apartment and ate very frugally. His financial situation was dire. But he had some very sharp suits, and he spent most days sitting in the sun outside of various cafes (where he usually only ordered a coffee.) He would jump up to pull seats out for women, and every woman walking by would get a tip of his hat. His big thing was to go to the opera, which he could only do a few times a year. He had grand delusions that he was a sophisticated man who was loved by the opera crowd. Yet no one ever from that crowd ever visited him. In reality, the guy was desperate for company, and I would sometimes take him out for lunch. I think his delusions about his situation were merely coping measures with reality. And if that helped him so, so what?

So we have a guy in San Diego in denial, as you described, and guys in Pattaya in denial. And if you think about it, they are pretty much the same. One goes to the opera and one brings back a bargirl. Who is to say that this is wrong, that this is a problem?

I am no young buck, but I am fairly fit and active. But the pages of the calendar are flipping, and it won't be long until I fit that demographic. I am not sure how I will react. Will I deny my condition? Will I deny my faltering physical resources?

I hope so.

[ludditeman]

Some Thais I have spoken with for awhile- and made comfortable with the knowledge that I was well aware of the high number of 'difficult' foreigners who visit or live in Thailand- have agreed with me that there are far too many dysfunctional visitors here. Since we're *mainly* talking about men, I'll generalise here a bit and say that the main problem is denial:

1. denial of one's actual age, body type, fitness, social position, medical health;

2. denial of one's financial condition, relative power and importance, or personal authority over others;

3. denial of one's responsibilities outside Thailand, or to non-Thai friends and family, employment, or especially to one's self;

4. denial of the real nature of one's relationships with Thais

These things are made possible here by the following factors, among others:

1. Politeness/reluctance to confront by Thais who notice or are affected by crazy behaviour

2. A mercenary sector of the tourist industry which is willing to go to certain lengths to provide a fantasy existence for the right price(s)

3. A community full of similar types who can reassure each other that they are not wrong/in denial/misbehaving/out of touch/downright barking mad

4. The delusional sense that one is not in the age/stage in life in which one actually is because of the various denial factors

5. Developmental levels providing enough relative foreign comforts and visa-friendliness which permits long-term exercises in delusion

To put it mildly, the foreign male population in Thailand- moreso even than that of many other countries in this region- have some serious problems- and the fact that denial is so easily fostered and maintained here makes it even easier for persons with those problems to think to themselves, 'Ah, well- it was those idiots back home who were wrong, not me!!!' There is little reward and much frustration in trying to challenge such delusional types, and the best thing is to avoid them. I have been in a mode where my foreign male acquaintance has either been holding at steady numbers (when one drops away, a new one may be considered) or even falling over time, because it is rarely worth the risk of getting to know new foreign males in Thailand- and that's said as someone who's not even considering (generally) relationships with most of them. Not recommended.

And how do these same people deal with the idea of difficult Thais?

1) institutional racism and many Thai racists (hate foreigners, hate people with dark skin, hate hilltribe people)

2) the corrupt Thais (every level of government, police and army)

3) the inept teachers and the policy of 'everyone passing' no matter what ability or attendance level.

4) the delusional ideas that Thais are more important and better educated than anyone else in the world.

5) rampant prostitution in Thai society (selling their daughters and buying 'services')

6) levels of domestic violence we from the west can hardly imagine.

Or are the people you speak with who talk about difficult foreigners, the same people I am speaking about.

To put it another way, the male population of Thailand has some serious issues.

Edited December 17, 2011 by ludditeman

[chonabot]

To put it mildly, the foreign male population in Thailand- moreso even than that of many other countries in this region- have some serious problems-

Agreed - I've just come back from Vientiane ( visa reasons ) and my 13 year old son asked me why pretty much all of the Western blokes were of a certain type.

But I guess they have as much right as any of us to be here

[Gary A]

I don't think I could handle being married to a stupid woman. I am of the opinion that a woman who married for love has mistaken lust for love and she will soon realize that she made a mistake. An intelligent woman will look beyond the physical attraction and consider what her life will look like in the years to come. A husband and wife should be good friends first as well as being attracted to each other.

Can you blame a woman who tries to better herself financially? She would be stupid if she didn't consider that.

I have a good friend who has been divorced for many years. He is now 67 years old. I was laughing when he was telling me about his experiences with a dating club in the US. He told me that the first date would have been easier if he had just given the lady a financial statement before the date. He says the ladies clumsily spent the first date trying to get financial information from him. He is quite well off and usually there was no second date. He is still single.

[Ijustwannateach]

Ludditeman- the topic on this thread is Thais' viewpoint of foreigners, and I'm sticking to it. You can complain about Thais on some other thread. I don't take the fact that dysfunction exists among Thais as an excuse for bad behaviour among foreigners.