A Female Luk Kruengs Viewpoint

[Trembly]

Comes across as a bit of a bitter Western woman.

Shouldn't be any shortage of company for her when she moves here.

Or any shortage of bitter Western men, for that matter. One look at these pages shows that quite clearly.

Anyway, most of the OP was censored by the time I got to the topic, but I think someone has been trolling Stick's board. Already the name looks off: 'Look Krueng Ying' ?? That's not common Thai usage. If it is real then her Thai (and therefore likely her knowledge/opinion of Thailand) is about as relevant as most newbie forum members here. A Thai person might write 'Sao Look Krueng' or similar. Look Krueng Ying is just off, sorry.

He got quite the response though, I always kind of respect that.

Without prejudice, Look Krueng Ying is correct and actually makes quite a deft reference to gender-role distinctions implicit in the wider culture (intended or no).

See also :

Phan-Ek Ying = Woman Colonel (that be her official rank on all her forms and name tags).

Phon Tamruat Ying = Woman Police Constable.

Phaed Ying = Woman Doctor.

Khun Ying = Lady (as opposed to Lord, Sir, His Excellency etc).

Edited December 13, 2011 by Trembly

[eslteacher]

This girl is spot on with pretty much everything except for that Phuket/Chiang Mai reference which made me laugh.

Bottom line is Thailand is a GREAT country with amazing people when you venture outside of the slimy, tourist traps. Not only are most of the Thai's there complete scum, but most of the Westerners are as well.

I feel like I am fairly well travelled and seeing some of the things ive seen in Thailand was perhaps the most disturbing things ive ever laid eyes on.

But if you dont meddle in the whore...err I mean bar scene then you will enjoy the best things and not the worst things that Thailand has to offer.

I'd say backpackers are pretty terrible but do not deserve to be lumped in with the sex tourists. Absolute scum those guys are.

[eslteacher]

As far as the article writer's musings on farang men, she's right on several points but I think her lack of experience of one half of her heritage is obvious in some parts. Her generalization that Thai men are lazy, cheating drunks is seriously wide of the mark. It reads like grievances passed down from her mother or, perhaps, stories she's heard from other Thai women with a predilection for foreigners. The facts speak for themselves; if Thai women preferred farangs, there'd be a hell of a lot more "luk kreungs" hopping around.

As I said on another thread where the OP was seeking input with regard to impending nuptials with his Thai girlfriend, the overwhelming majority of Thai women would prefer a THAI man for obvious reasons including sharing same culture and language. Adolescent Thai girls don't fantasize about white or black men or pin posters of them on their walls; they have male idols who are distinctively Thai albeit covered with a couple of coats of Dulux Matt White emulsion.

From what I've seen, it is chiefly Thai women of a certain age who are, perhaps, raising one child or more alone that tend to give farang guys the green light since most financially-solid, respectable Thai men will be loathe to take on an over-ripe Thai woman and her spawn. Many farang guys, however, will.

Exactly. Thats one area she seems completely oblivious to. Its amazing how we think Thai Women prefer farang men. Who says that? Hookers? Yeah the "thai men are no good" line works everytime bottom line is they are probably shagging their Thai Husband every night.

Most Thai women much prefer a Thai man because as you said they share the same culture and language.

If a Thai woman is looking for a farang boyfriend/husband, i'd run the hell away.

[tonititan]

In the back of your mind you know they're prostitutes and what follows is an internal struggle brought on by years of western indoctrination that tells you prostitution is bad and cannot be enjoyed while on the other hand you feel the need to let go of your inhibitions.

Or maybe the struggle involves the fact that they know that prostitution is ILLEGAL in Thailand.

[eslteacher]

*(Deleted quote edited out)*

HAHA, that's the thing though. Even the "sports bars" are sleazy. I just wanted to watch a boxing match last year and I had a couple of the girls there telling me they loved me. I must've been looking pretty good that day. Safe to say I watched the fight, bought a couple beers for me only and then got the hell out of there. A few more beers and you might do something you regret.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Scott
deleted quote edited out

[Scott]

A number of off-topic and nasty posts have been removed. Please stick to the topic and cease making remarks about other posters and their occupation.

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Thanks.

[citizen33]

I'll try to stay out of the main arguments, but just wanted to mention that one does come across a surprising number of pleasant and personable women of around 30 to 35, who have been well educated and are in good jobs but lack a partner. Rightly or wrongly I've always put this down to the demographic squeeze that arises from the cultural expectation that it is okay for Thai men to take a wife from virtually any social stratum, whereas a middle-class woman finds it hard to marry a man who is less well educated than she is. I'm married already and have never had any relationships stronger than friendship with such ladies, but I get the sense that many would consider a Western husband. He won't fit into the conventional Thai class hierarchy and may offer a way out of the demographic trap.

Edited December 13, 2011 by citizen33

[meom]

A number of off-topic and nasty posts have been removed. Please stick to the topic and cease making remarks about other posters and their occupation.

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Thanks.

Yes I should've used the tongue in cheek emoticon after a certain word.

Some people take things to seriously.

[Gary A]

I was admonished about my habit of running around with bar girls by a farang friend of mine. He and his Thai wife had hired an upcountry maid because his wife had a hard time during the birth of their child. The maid had worked for them far beyond the time his wife had fully recovered, but his wife had gotten used to being lazy and having a maid and nanny.

To make a long story short, he introduced me to their maid. I liked her and found her attractive. After a suitable courting period, I invited her to move in with me. She had never been in a bar in her life and absolutely refused to go to any bar with me. She put on a very good act for several months and then her true character came out. She turned out to be the very MOST mercenary woman I had ever met. I couldn't get her to leave even with a substantial pay off. My apartment rent was prepaid for several more months and I ended up moving out. I moved into a very secure gated condo complex and the security guards refused to let her in. Thus ended the nine month live in relationship. I was fortunate not to have let her talk me into marrying her.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Gary A

[aehn]

Her generalization that Thai men are lazy, cheating drunks is seriously wide of the mark. It reads like grievances passed down from her mother or, perhaps, stories she's heard from other Thai women with a predilection for foreigners. The facts speak for themselves; if Thai women preferred farangs, there'd be a hell of a lot more "luk kreungs" hopping around.

As I said on another thread where the OP was seeking input with regard to impending nuptials with his Thai girlfriend, the overwhelming majority of Thai women would prefer a THAI man for obvious reasons including sharing same culture and language. Adolescent Thai girls don't fantasize about white or black men or pin posters of them on their walls; they have male idols who are distinctively Thai albeit covered with a couple of coats of Dulux Matt White emulsion.

From what I've seen, it is chiefly Thai women of a certain age who are, perhaps, raising one child or more alone that tend to give farang guys the green light since most financially-solid, respectable Thai men will be loathe to take on an over-ripe Thai woman and her spawn. Many farang guys, however, will.

This is spot on (except for the the fact that I think there are also thai guys who are financially solid that could also date an "over ripe" woman and her child), and only one of many things she got totally wrong.

As I said earlier, her post was based on standard cliché impressions, and to make her understanding even more shallow and off the track, she goes, of all the places, to stickman for more knowledge, epic fail!

Edited December 13, 2011 by aehn

[manarak]

I just read what she wrote, and I can only agree, except with the bit about the "disgusting sextourists", LOL.

But I fail to understand how what she wrote is a new point of view or good advice, because everything she wrote is already 100% known to everybody after a couple of trips.

Falling in love with a whore and then being played is Som Nom Na, she's right.

To add another banality: there are many examples of successful long-lasting relationships with bargirls too.

One thing I wonder about is why she thinks everybody wants a "good girl"?

I don't.

I like the bars and the miniskirts and I would like to meet a very naughty bisexual little devil.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Anyway, most of the OP was censored by the time I got to the topic, but I think someone has been trolling Stick's board. Already the name looks off: 'Look Krueng Ying' ?? That's not common Thai usage. If it is real then her Thai (and therefore likely her knowledge/opinion of Thailand) is about as relevant as most newbie forum members here. A Thai person might write 'Sao Look Krueng' or similar. Look Krueng Ying is just off, sorry.

He got quite the response though, I always kind of respect that.

Without prejudice, Look Krueng Ying is correct and actually makes quite a deft reference to gender-role distinctions implicit in the wider culture (intended or no).

See also :

Phan-Ek Ying = Woman Colonel (that be her official rank on all her forms and name tags).

Phon Tamruat Ying = Woman Police Constable.

Phaed Ying = Woman Doctor.

Khun Ying = Lady (as opposed to Lord, Sir, His Excellency etc).

Those are all titles though, where 'woman/female' is the adjective added to the position/noun. The adjective follows the noun typically in Thai.

However in this case 'Look Krueng' is actually the adjective that further defines the noun 'woman', similar to 'A Bangkok girl', 'A Karaoke Girl', 'A Farang woman' etc. I still think it sounds weird. Maybe not super incorrect, but not natural. As an example, a 'Farang Woman' is 'Phuying Farang'. (Or 'Sao Farang' for 'Farang girl' , if you like.) You also wouldn't say 'Farang Ying', that's nuts, and a typical mistake for a beginner learning Thai.

Anyway, food for the language forum, perhaps.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I was admonished about my habit of running around with bar girls by a farang friend of mine. He and his Thai wife had hired an upcountry maid because his wife had a hard time during the birth of their child. The maid had worked for them far beyond the time his wife had fully recovered, but his wife had gotten used to being lazy and having a maid and nanny.

To make a long story short, he introduced me to their maid. I liked her and found her attractive. After a suitable courting period, I invited her to move in with me. She had never been in a bar in her life and absolutely refused to go to any bar with me. She put on a very good act for several months and then her true character came out. She turned out to be the very MOST mercenary woman I had ever met. I couldn't get her to leave even with a substantial pay off. My apartment rent was prepaid for several more months and I ended up moving out. I moved into a very secure gated condo complex and the security guards refused to let her in. Thus ended the nine month live in relationship. I was fortunate not to have let her talk me into marrying her.

I usually get quite some resistance on these forums for my opinion that I don't really get men who loudly claim that dating/marrying a bargirl is the worst thing in the world, and then proudly boast that they met their wife/gf while she worked as a waitress, hotel maid or some other job where people work with the *exact* same poor, rural background that most bargirls have.

And then they're surprised then they encounter the exact same problems that men encounter who just date bargirls. [ Such as but not limited to a limited grasp of financial stuff (girl not being able do any kind of budget planning, including even the concept that you can spend money only once), confidence during social or business functions, perceptions by Thai society of her, and their relationship, and sometimes a faux elitist need to put down (or disassociate herself from) other Thais who she perceives as now somehow 'lower' than her, now that she got a bit of money. ]

But anyway, that is my opinion. Note though that this is not the same as claiming that nobody should date bargirls; I know MANY people in very successful marriages with bargirls, probably the majority is successful looking among my friends. I'm only saying that some of the turbulence encountered in those relationships is highly similar to the challenges you face with any other woman from a similar background where there's a big gap in income, education, social standing and perhaps (but not necessarily) age.

Edited December 13, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Johnniey]

I usually get quite some resistance on these forums for my opinion that I don't really get men who loudly claim that dating/marrying a bargirl is the worst thing in the world, and then proudly boast that they met their wife/gf while she worked as a waitress, hotel maid or some other job where people work with the *exact* same poor, rural background that most bargirls have.

Firstly, you don't date a bargirl - you rent them - they are prostitutes(women who sell their bodies)

Marrying them is ABSOLUTELY nothing like marrying a waitress etc.

I know MANY people in very successful marriages with bargirls, probably the majority is successful looking among my friends.

What's successful - 3 years after being stupid enough to:-

1- pay a dowry

2- buy a pick-up truck

3- build a house in Isaan

Wait a couple of years dude - marriages with prostitutes don't work in ANY country.

[Riely]

I didn't care for the majority of her post (dragged on abit about the obvious) but in this particular quote was perfectly spot on,

"Men say they can't find the "good" Thai women while they are on holiday. Well, what good woman wants a whoring, drunk loser? If you have so little self-esteem that you are easily suckered into believing you are a prostitute's saviour and she pines for you since the night you paid her bar fine, you need to take a look at yourself. Maybe you deserve a whore for a wife"

Really, if I had buck for every time I saw someone like that. Same BS, and then the ones that get this kind of woman think that everyone who says they have a non-whore wife, from a decent family, must be full of <deleted>.

[samran]

The only winner out of this whole thread is stickman!

[mca]

Anyway, I feel fortunate to be bringing my own farang boyfriend with me,

As said boyfriend perfects the " ogling the girls while pretending to be looking at something completely different " technique.

" Are you looking at that beer promotion girl in the sort skirt?"

" Don't be silly. Isn't that the new Honda Civic just behind her in the car park?"

[South]

Anybody who has to advertise {prove their point} on Stickmans' site is missing the point.

And as her own words state/show ...she is very very naive in her object audience.

[ExpatJ]

The article is written by a bloke- every now and again an article on stickman appears supposedly from a woman because it generates many more replies and interest and page hits than normal submissions.

[travelmann]

The only winner out of this whole thread is stickman!

:jap: :jap: :jap:

[DocN]

I just read what she wrote, and I can only agree, except with the bit about the "disgusting sextourists", LOL.

But I fail to understand how what she wrote is a new point of view or good advice, because everything she wrote is already 100% known to everybody after a couple of trips.

Falling in love with a whore and then being played is Som Nom Na, she's right.

To add another banality: there are many examples of successful long-lasting relationships with bargirls too.

One thing I wonder about is why she thinks everybody wants a "good girl"?

I don't.

I like the bars and the miniskirts and I would like to meet a very naughty bisexual little devil.

Good one!!!!

[WebBangkok]

Well its just her opinion, she is entitled to it as we all are. I am sure we all have some very different views from each other on many things in Thailand.

[Trembly]

Anyway, most of the OP was censored by the time I got to the topic, but I think someone has been trolling Stick's board. Already the name looks off: 'Look Krueng Ying' ?? That's not common Thai usage. If it is real then her Thai (and therefore likely her knowledge/opinion of Thailand) is about as relevant as most newbie forum members here. A Thai person might write 'Sao Look Krueng' or similar. Look Krueng Ying is just off, sorry.

He got quite the response though, I always kind of respect that.

Without prejudice, Look Krueng Ying is correct and actually makes quite a deft reference to gender-role distinctions implicit in the wider culture (intended or no).

See also :

Phan-Ek Ying = Woman Colonel (that be her official rank on all her forms and name tags).

Phon Tamruat Ying = Woman Police Constable.

Phaed Ying = Woman Doctor.

Khun Ying = Lady (as opposed to Lord, Sir, His Excellency etc).

Those are all titles though, where 'woman/female' is the adjective added to the position/noun. The adjective follows the noun typically in Thai.

However in this case 'Look Krueng' is actually the adjective that further defines the noun 'woman', similar to 'A Bangkok girl', 'A Karaoke Girl', 'A Farang woman' etc. I still think it sounds weird. Maybe not super incorrect, but not natural. As an example, a 'Farang Woman' is 'Phuying Farang'. (Or 'Sao Farang' for 'Farang girl' , if you like.) You also wouldn't say 'Farang Ying', that's nuts, and a typical mistake for a beginner learning Thai.

Anyway, food for the language forum, perhaps.

She can appoint herself Look Krueng Ying if she wants to. Thai is a conceptual language which lends itself wonderfully to eloquently ''breaking" the "rules" in order to achieve nuance.

By way of example :

A chap called Gaan/กานต์ is introduced to a Colonel who happens to be the Phu-Gaan/ผู้การ (a rather quaint military rank no longer in formal usage which translates literally into "Man-of-Matters", it is still widely used to address those holding the appointments of Commanding Officer or Officer Commanding) . . .

Mutual friend : I'd like to introduce you to Khun Gaan. Khun Gaan, this is Phan-Ek Ying Luk (short for Luksiri), she's the Phu-Gaan.

Gaan : I'm also a Phu-Gaan! (but in this case clearly meaning Gaan-person / Gaan-man - It'd be a bit silly to think that Gaan goes around calling himself Phu-Gaan all of the time).

All : Haw haw haw . . .

I admit that this vein of discussion probably has little utility in helping us to decide if he or she is a witch or not. I should probably wind my neck in now because I've only been learning to speak Thai since before I could walk and I don't want to get in the way of a good pogrom.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Trembly

[DocN]

Anyway, most of the OP was censored by the time I got to the topic, but I think someone has been trolling Stick's board. Already the name looks off: 'Look Krueng Ying' ?? That's not common Thai usage. If it is real then her Thai (and therefore likely her knowledge/opinion of Thailand) is about as relevant as most newbie forum members here. A Thai person might write 'Sao Look Krueng' or similar. Look Krueng Ying is just off, sorry.

He got quite the response though, I always kind of respect that.

Without prejudice, Look Krueng Ying is correct and actually makes quite a deft reference to gender-role distinctions implicit in the wider culture (intended or no).

See also :

Phan-Ek Ying = Woman Colonel (that be her official rank on all her forms and name tags).

Phon Tamruat Ying = Woman Police Constable.

Phaed Ying = Woman Doctor.

Khun Ying = Lady (as opposed to Lord, Sir, His Excellency etc).

Those are all titles though, where 'woman/female' is the adjective added to the position/noun. The adjective follows the noun typically in Thai.

However in this case 'Look Krueng' is actually the adjective that further defines the noun 'woman', similar to 'A Bangkok girl', 'A Karaoke Girl', 'A Farang woman' etc. I still think it sounds weird. Maybe not super incorrect, but not natural. As an example, a 'Farang Woman' is 'Phuying Farang'. (Or 'Sao Farang' for 'Farang girl' , if you like.) You also wouldn't say 'Farang Ying', that's nuts, and a typical mistake for a beginner learning Thai.

Anyway, food for the language forum, perhaps.

What if she wanted to playfully title herself Look-Krueng-Ying a la the examples I mentioned? Thai is a conceptual language which lends itself wonderfully to eloquently ''breaking" the "rules" in order to achieve nuance.

By way of example :

A chap called Gaan/กานต์ is introduced to the Colonel, who happens to be the Phu-Gaan/ผู้การ (a rather quaint military rank which translates literally into "Man-of-Matters", it is still widely used to address those holding the appointments of Commanding Officer or Officer Commanding) . . .

Mutual friend : I'd like to introduce you to Khun Gaan. Khun Gaan, this is Phan-Ek Ying Luk (short for Luksiri), she's the Phu-Gaan.

Gaan : I'm also a Phu-Gaan! (but in this case clearly meaning Gaan-person / Gaan-man - It'd be a bit silly to think that Gaan goes around calling himself Phu-Gaan all of the time).

All : Haw haw haw . . .

I admit that this vein of discussion probably has little utility in helping us decide if she's a witch or not. I should probably wind my neck in now because I've only been learning to speak Thai since before I could walk and I don't want to derail a good pogrom.

What was I just reading...?????

[TigerWan]

SNIPPET

Total rubbish in my opinion. She is just another feministic hi so decency freak preaching her so called moral standards to what she considers as the perverted over here.

She`s got it completely wrong, it`s not so cut and dry as she believes.

Live and let live is my motto, provided we are not doing any harm to others.

please don't blame feminists. I believe it's official at the last Feminazi meeting we're actually for legalizing prostitution and cutting out the various pimps such as the bar owner you pay the fine to. This would also help those women trafficked and betcha they are around too, though you can pretend not.

I have to agree, the worst of the worst of masculinity flock to SEA for the all too nauseatingly usual reasons.

What effects the future adversely is raising daughters to be as reliant on others as their mothers were. to clean house and serve meals and act as sex servants is about the only interest th average sexpat holds in women- any women. (I swear more men would be openly gay if only they would clean their own houses.)

However I don't think the rest of the world is populated by men with their consciousness raised much above the waist, either. They, too have a real aversion to doing housework. Western women have learned to say no thanks, to this chambermaid deal.

She is a disappointed romantic.

What horrid country to be a young women in. I am thankful for my age as I really lived it up in women's heyday which I fear has passed and is in full descent to a middle-ages mentality.

Edited December 14, 2011 by TigerWan

[harryfrompattaya]

"Thai women are not going to sleep with you easily unless they are prostitutes"

Little Miss Hello Kitty HiSo wanabee needs to get of her soapbox and get out a bit more.

I do not know but does she sleep with her boyfriend?

I will bet I known where her father met her mother

[harryfrompattaya]

The only problem I have with this essay is that the viewpoint is that of a luk kreung, raised with Western values. I'm sure she speaks and understands Thai and has Thai friends, but my experience with luk kruengs is that they don't capture the true Thai social values. She even admits she is Westernized. As such, I believe she misses the subtle issues that come up in any Thai/Farang relationship....chiefly that of money. Thais have a different view of it. In farangland (at least in the USA where I grew up), it is absolutely verboten for the most part to be asking family members for money. Everyone is expected to provide for themselves. That isn't to say you can't approach a relative in time of need or under extreme duress, but people are expected to provide for themselves.

The same is not true of Thailand, and this attitude creates much friction in mixed relationships. Need a new motorcycle to get to work but can't afford it? Ask the farang brother in law. Thai girl, wanting to be the good sister, dutifully passes on the request. After a couple of these the farang figures she must be a whore. Marrying a Thai woman, unless she is wealthy herself, will place you in a position of being expected to support the extended family to some degree, and that creates many conflicts. The woman may not be a whore, but her requests for money for the family, her expectations of receiving it, and a cultural bias that if you are a good man you will provide it, lead many to label all Thai women whores even if the relationship is not atypical for Thailand.

The most important part of finding a good Thai woman is to understand what her motivations are. Communication is absolutely essential if you are going to get past the problem. You can not have rigid Western values and find happiness in Thailand (unless you strictly go after Westernized luk kreungs who share your cultural biases.)

Be careful speaking with luk kreungs. Many of them know just enough about Thai culture to be dangerous, but they aren't necessarily Thai.

So they ask the same and think as a Bar Girl so why are they better for your pocket book.

My very rich Ho So wife of over 20 years never asked for money for her family. She knows in my cultural as a Son of a African Chief people give me money.

What culture do you come from that gives bums money

Thais will not give bums in the family. I think you wife and her friends just found fools that believe they have to give

You must be afraid of your wife. I will love to met you so I can give you some bull and you will give be money.

Edited December 14, 2011 by harryfrompattaya

[Dararasmi]

I can't vouch for the veracity of the article's authorship, but I gotta say...I've banged loads of "good" Thai girls on the first date. (And without the involvement of alcohol or any other "substances".)

Edited December 15, 2011 by Dararasmi

[chooka]

Believe me, women can overlook your beer gut

Overlook, or look over?

depends where you placed your wallet.

[gregb]

SNIPPET

Total rubbish in my opinion. She is just another feministic hi so decency freak preaching her so called moral standards to what she considers as the perverted over here.

She`s got it completely wrong, it`s not so cut and dry as she believes.

Live and let live is my motto, provided we are not doing any harm to others.

please don't blame feminists. I believe it's official at the last Feminazi meeting we're actually for legalizing prostitution and cutting out the various pimps such as the bar owner you pay the fine to. This would also help those women trafficked and betcha they are around too, though you can pretend not.

I have to agree, the worst of the worst of masculinity flock to SEA for the all too nauseatingly usual reasons.

What effects the future adversely is raising daughters to be as reliant on others as their mothers were. to clean house and serve meals and act as sex servants is about the only interest th average sexpat holds in women- any women. (I swear more men would be openly gay if only they would clean their own houses.)

However I don't think the rest of the world is populated by men with their consciousness raised much above the waist, either. They, too have a real aversion to doing housework. Western women have learned to say no thanks, to this chambermaid deal.

She is a disappointed romantic.

What horrid country to be a young women in. I am thankful for my age as I really lived it up in women's heyday which I fear has passed and is in full descent to a middle-ages mentality.

I for one will be raising my daughter to understand the importance and the value of traditional feminine roles. Anywhere in the West would be a truly horrid country to be raised female in my opinion. Independent women are truly nauseating to me. I want someone who is as dependent on me as I am on them. I want someone with whom I can share a bond that is not easily broken by either of us. The movement towards strong women is not a plus. It is a huge net negative and indicative of why the West is in decline.

My wife leads a life every bit as rich as anyone in the West, but she also understands that she does need a man, and I need her. That is why we have been happily married for 10 years, and we will remain happily married until we die. Contrast this with the 50+% divorce rate in the USA and you shouldn't need any more data to see the picture.

Western women believe independence is a good thing because that is what social norms have taught them to believe. Western men go along with this because they need to fit into society. Somewhere deep in everyone psyche they know this is wrong. We evolved to form family units that were dependent on each other for a reason. Being a strong, independent woman may make you feel powerful, but it won't help you have a family. That is what my daughter will learn as she grows up.

The Middle Ages had much to offer us that we have forgotten in our quest for progress. I truly feel sorry for all of us that we are living in the diseased culture we are today. While I do not look forward to the coming collapse of industrial civilization, I do know that many good and necessary things will come of it, chief among them is the reestablishment of social norms where dependence on the opposite gender is considered positive.

I don't know if you are actually a woman with a view or simply trolling, but do keep in mind that while you are quite free to express your opinion, you must realize that many of us moved to Asia because we believe strongly your position is wrong. And I for one am thankful that the idea of strong, independent women is almost finished with its course of destruction.