Thai Law (If Any) Regards Child Access

[rinteln]

Hi all,

First of all sorry if this is not the correct section but seemed the best bet.

I am seeking some advice or direction on behalf of my friend who is German and his English is not good enough for this forum so I am helping him out.

He has recently split up with his girlfriend who together have a baby son. Now as you can imagine she is being very difficult regarding access to the baby. In fact its even worse than that and she has done what so many seem to do and shipped the baby off up country never to be seen again by the father and hardly by the mother either. (how these Thais manage to turn off any emotion always amazes me) As you can imagine the guy is devastated and we are trying to see if there is anything that can be done.

Does anyone know of any legal process whatsoever with this type of situation ? As the guy got any chance at all of getting access or is there no legal system for this. I don't want to sound naive about this as I know the chances are slim but if there is any chance then its worth it. The baby has an id card and both parents are registered if that makes any difference.

If anyone has any helpful info, or experiences then it would be very very helpful.

Please no low blow comments, this guy is in a state, as any of us would be.

Thanks

Edited December 14, 2011 by rinteln

[craigt3365]

General is a tough forum. Let's try this over in the Family and Children forum.

Topic Moved.

[rinteln]

General is a tough forum. Let's try this over in the Family and Children forum.

Topic Moved.

Thanks

[nocturn]

is he registered on the birth certificate? are they are not married, did he register the birth himself at the amphur immediately after the child was born. It all comes down to how actively he established his rights as a parent.

http://www.thailawon...d-thailand.html

the following italicised section from the above page is particularly relevant. So if he has lest anything to chance he is likely in for a world of hurt.

PARENTAL POWERS UNDER THAI LAW

Here are some of the relevant clauses regarding 'parental powers' under Thai law:

Section 1538

"In a case where the man or the woman has made a marriage against section 1452, a child born during such a marriage shall be presumed to be the legitimate child of the Husband who has his last marriage entered into the Marriage Register"

Section 1546

"A child born of a woman who is not married to a man is deemed to be the legitimate child of said woman."

Section 1547

"A child born of the parents who are not married to each other is legitimated by the subsequent marriage of the parents, or by registration made on application by the Father, or by a judgment of the Court."

Section 1560

"The child born during marriage is deemed to be legitimate, even though the marriage has been subsequently cancelled."

But all is not lost

Action to legitimate a child in a Thai Court

If you are named as the Father on the birth certificate of the child, but you were not married with the Mother at birth, and you didn't marry her after the birth, you can still legitimize your rights as father using section 1555 of CCCT. This clause mentions:

"An action for legitimization may be entered ONLY in the following cases:

(...)

(3) There is a document emanating from the Father and acknowledging the child as his own;"

(4) Where it appears on the Birth Register that the child is a son or daughter of the man who made the notification of the birth, or such notification was made with knowledge of the man

(6) Where the Father had sexual intercourse with the Mother during the period when conception could have taken place, and there are grounds to believe that he or she is not the child of another man;

(7) Where there has been continuous common repute of being a legitimate child.

The status resulting for common continuous repute of being a legitimate child is established by means of facts showing the relationship of Father and child, as evidenced by the child's connection with the family to which he claims to belong, such as the fact that the Father has provided the child's education and maintenance, or that he has allowed the child to use his family name or other facts.

In any case, if the man is found unable to be a father, the case shall be dismissed."

There are normally 6 steps for this kind of action:

1.A petition should be given to the Court

2 A kind of social worker will examine the background of both spouses, separately, to make a report for the Court. This report is filed with what is called the 'juvenile division', it is NOT presented in front of the Court, and lawyers are normally not allowed to be present.

3.A negotiation session between the parties will be the first step in Court before a trial. It's normally done in front of a mediator and if the parties agree, this agreement will be signed by a judge and will have the same value as a judgment.

4.If parties can't agree, there is a trial in front of the judge.

5.The judge will rend a decision.

6.Rights will be registered at the local authority following an agreement or a judgment.

Plaintiffs in such cases must understand that here the issue is the legitimization of a child, or the recognition of your rights. That will grant you joint custody. However, if you want full custody or want to modify the joint custody, there will be a process in 2 steps:

A) Legitimization of your rights, (and once this is done, you can request a..)

Decision about the custody.

Depending where you apply, and how it is done, in some places the 2 steps A and B will be combined. Also, if there is a settlement in Court, if parties reach an agreement, the agreement will often recognize parental powers of parents, will define who will get physical custody, add visitation rights and alimony. So, you basically settle all the relevant issues at the same time.

the moral of the story is know your rights before your child is born.

Edited December 14, 2011 by nocturn

[rinteln]

Thanks so much for that information.

I know he wasn't married but yes he did register himself as the father straight after the birth at the local amphur office. I'm not sure if it is relevant but he also told me that he has a Turkish id card for the baby. Sorry I know I said he was German earlier but that's only because I always refer to him as German as he lived there all his life but he is actually Turkish.

So I think apart from being married he has done all he can.

I will read the info you have sent me and see what happens. Thanks again very much.

is he registered on the birth certificate? are they are not married, did he register the birth himself at the amphur immediately after the child was born. It all comes down to how actively he established his rights as a parent.

http://www.thailawon...d-thailand.html

the following italicised section from the above page is particularly relevant. So if he has lest anything to chance he is likely in for a world of hurt.

PARENTAL POWERS UNDER THAI LAW

Here are some of the relevant clauses regarding 'parental powers' under Thai law:

Section 1538

"In a case where the man or the woman has made a marriage against section 1452, a child born during such a marriage shall be presumed to be the legitimate child of the Husband who has his last marriage entered into the Marriage Register"

Section 1546

"A child born of a woman who is not married to a man is deemed to be the legitimate child of said woman."

Section 1547

"A child born of the parents who are not married to each other is legitimated by the subsequent marriage of the parents, or by registration made on application by the Father, or by a judgment of the Court."

Section 1560

"The child born during marriage is deemed to be legitimate, even though the marriage has been subsequently cancelled."

Edited December 14, 2011 by rinteln

[Beetlejuice]

In Thailand, a child born from a couple that are not legally married is considered the rightful child of the mother and the father has no legal rights over the child. This pertains even if the father’s name is on the birth certificate.

This means, that there can be no legal relationship between the child and the father. Reversing this process is almost impossible in Thailand.

An unmarried mother can legally nominate any man she wishes as the acting father of her child and approve the complete legitimization process with any man of her choice.

There are a couple of ways of legitimisation a child in Thailand:

If the parents of a child are not married but then later marry, any child born to the couple before they were married will be considered the legitimate child of the husband. The parents must inform a district official during the time of marital registration and provide all details.

Secondly, acquiring legitimisation of a child by the father can be done by registering the father as the legitimate parent at the district office. If the child is under 7 years of age, the district office will require a court order. Foreigners are required to obtain a court order whatever the age of the child.

[rinteln]

In Thailand, a child born from a couple that are not legally married is considered the rightful child of the mother and the father has no legal rights over the child. This pertains even if the father's name is on the birth certificate.

This means, that there can be no legal relationship between the child and the father. Reversing this process is almost impossible in Thailand.

An unmarried mother can legally nominate any man she wishes as the acting father of her child and approve the complete legitimization process with any man of her choice.

There are a couple of ways of legitimisation a child in Thailand:

If the parents of a child are not married but then later marry, any child born to the couple before they were married will be considered the legitimate child of the husband. The parents must inform a district official during the time of marital registration and provide all details.

Secondly, acquiring legitimisation of a child by the father can be done by registering the father as the legitimate parent at the district office. If the child is under 7 years of age, the district office will require a court order. Foreigners are required to obtain a court order whatever the age of the child.

Thanks, very useful information.

What you say above is the immediate impression I get from reading the link that nocturn gave me. It doesn't look good but I would rather he know now then try I suppose.

So really looks like there is no natural claim he can have over the child, even to visit. He can only go to court and I don't get the impression Thailand is a country where judges would consider the ability of a given parent to care for the child and thus decide from there. If it were then he would win hands down seeing as the mother has shipped the baby off within days and quite clearly cannot care for the child. I suppose the judgement wouldn't be about that anyway as that's hard work and requires thinking.

Looks like he may have to work on buttering her up and bite the bullet.

Thanks again for the info

Edited December 14, 2011 by rinteln

[Mario2008]

In Thailand, a child born from a couple that are not legally married is considered the rightful child of the mother and the father has no legal rights over the child. This pertains even if the father's name is on the birth certificate.

This means, that there can be no legal relationship between the child and the father. Reversing this process is almost impossible in Thailand.

An unmarried mother can legally nominate any man she wishes as the acting father of her child and approve the complete legitimization process with any man of her choice.

There are a couple of ways of legitimisation a child in Thailand:

If the parents of a child are not married but then later marry, any child born to the couple before they were married will be considered the legitimate child of the husband. The parents must inform a district official during the time of marital registration and provide all details.

Secondly, acquiring legitimisation of a child by the father can be done by registering the father as the legitimate parent at the district office. If the child is under 7 years of age, the district office will require a court order. Foreigners are required to obtain a court order whatever the age of the child.

A father can petiton to court to become the lagel father, with or withourt consent of the mother. If the mother consents, it just makes it easier., but if not the father will ultimately be recognized by the court as the legal father.

For foreigners the same ruels apply s for Thai nationals, no where does the law state that a foreigner always needs permisison of the court before becoming the lagal fahter. if a child is about 7 years and both child and mother agree legitimization can take place at the amphur.

[Mario2008]

[Thanks, very useful information.

What you say above is the immediate impression I get from reading the link that nocturn gave me. It doesn't look good but I would rather he know now then try I suppose.

So really looks like there is no natural claim he can have over the child, even to visit. He can only go to court and I don't get the impression Thailand is a country where judges would consider the ability of a given parent to care for the child and thus decide from there. If it were then he would win hands down seeing as the mother has shipped the baby off within days and quite clearly cannot care for the child. I suppose the judgement wouldn't be about that anyway as that's hard work and requires thinking.

Looks like he may have to work on buttering her up and bite the bullet.

Thanks again for the info

Thai courts are unbiased against foreigners and will give a judgement in what they percieve is in the ebst interst of the child. if the is recogized as the fahter, he can petiton for shared custody with the mother. Sole custody will only be granted in case the mother is totaly unfit or even a danger to the child.

if he gets shared custody, the norm is that the child stays with either parent. The judge decides about how to split the time. But that parent can't ship the child off. If the motehr doesn't take care of the child, the fahter as the other parent has the right to take care of the child. She can for example send the child to her own mother to take care of it, if the father wants to take care of the child. He is a parent, with parental rights, the grandparent not.