Uk High Court Ruling On English Requirements

[7by7]

As a point of interest only, the bottom line on this at the moment is that the appellant's ( Chanti's) husband will have to learn enough English to enable him to pass the A1 level test. But, assuming the proposed new changes to Family Migration are introduced shortly, then he may well find that he will be required to pass the test at A2 level ! Even more worrying is that, if the minimum income level proposal ( discussed in a different thread) is also introduced, then I doubt if he will ever get a visa. I don't know for sure, but I doubt if his wife, and sponsor, is earning the required ( if introduced ) minimum of 18,500 GBP a year. It does seem as if the government is somehow punishing spouses and partners in the grand scheme of family migration to the UK.

We British folk who were outraged with the policies of 13 years of a Labour admin, hopefully never to see the like of again, are looking to a new government to deal with many issues, Immigration,being one,

My understanding is the English requirement for spouses applying for settlement was a stated policy of the last, Labour, government. The coalition simply adopted the policy and introduced it earlier than Labour planned to.

Whilst the proposed income level for sponsors is an important subject, this topic is about the English requirement. Please stay on topic.

[bobrussell]

I am a total supporter of pre-settlement English tests. It can only benefit someone coming to settle in the UK to have at least basic English conversation.

It is not racist or discriminatory if it applies to everyone equally. Settlement is bound to come with inconveniences such as showing basic language skills. It seems to me. however, that the present system is not particularly flexible and there may be other ways of demonstrating the ability to speak English.

It is a shame when people don't make the effort to speak the local language (Thai as well as English!). We know two Thai's who keeps applying for FLR rather than make an effort to improve their skills. Both live really isolated lives despite living in the UK for a number of years. Settlement in a foreign country is not a small decision and comes with responsibilities, not least to integrate IMO.

Most of our Thai friends here speak English and enjoy the benefits this brings living in the UK!

[AngryParent]

I am a total supporter of pre-settlement English tests. It can only benefit someone coming to settle in the UK to have at least basic English conversation.

It is not racist or discriminatory if it applies to everyone equally. Settlement is bound to come with inconveniences such as showing basic language skills. It seems to me. however, that the present system is not particularly flexible and there may be other ways of demonstrating the ability to speak English.

It is a shame when people don't make the effort to speak the local language (Thai as well as English!). We know two Thai's who keeps applying for FLR rather than make an effort to improve their skills. Both live really isolated lives despite living in the UK for a number of years. Settlement in a foreign country is not a small decision and comes with responsibilities, not least to integrate IMO.

Most of our Thai friends here speak English and enjoy the benefits this brings living in the UK!

Don't get me wrong, I fully agree that a fully functional family WILL need English language skills.

My point is, if this pre-test results in extra delays in bringing a UK family home i.e. needs to jump through EXTRA hurdles, then it is affecting the family. Till then (spouse getting able), the UK husband or the wife can assist with the transition and all else that is required (in the UK). time could be better spent building a family in the UK, rather than trying to just enter.

The Conservative govt. started and stood for laissez faire. If the stronger spouse is willing to make a choice to support and bring and maintain the weaker one, then surely the govt should stop interfering in FAMILY life! This is especially relevant as the non-UK spouse cannot really get access to UK public funds!!

Or is the Conservative govt. offering spouses and a family for all those who stay in the UK?

Edited December 20, 2011 by AngryParent

[tricolor]

I am a total supporter of pre-settlement English tests. It can only benefit someone coming to settle in the UK to have at least basic English conversation.

It is not racist or discriminatory if it applies to everyone equally. Settlement is bound to come with inconveniences such as showing basic language skills. It seems to me. however, that the present system is not particularly flexible and there may be other ways of demonstrating the ability to speak English.

It is a shame when people don't make the effort to speak the local language (Thai as well as English!). We know two Thai's who keeps applying for FLR rather than make an effort to improve their skills. Both live really isolated lives despite living in the UK for a number of years. Settlement in a foreign country is not a small decision and comes with responsibilities, not least to integrate IMO.

Most of our Thai friends here speak English and enjoy the benefits this brings living in the UK!

It's a pity that Thai's already here are not more organised and could have started support groups or even hold courses to help each other with the language exams and LIUK tests.

[7by7]

My point is, if this pre-test results in extra delays in bringing a UK family home i.e. needs to jump through EXTRA hurdles, then it is affecting the family. Till then (spouse getting able), the UK husband or the wife can assist with the transition and all else that is required (in the UK). time could be better spent building a family in the UK, rather than trying to just enter.

You make it sound as if the majority of spouse/partner applications are suddenly made on the spur of the moment with no thought and no preparation! Which is, of course, ludicrous.

Part of that preparation is, or should be, preparing the non British partner for their new life, and learning some English, whether a test is required for the visa or not, is surely part of this.

There is a lot involved in moving one's family to another country; more than just getting the relevant visa.

Having said that, I have said before that I am no great fan of a test before the initial visa. The current required level is too low to be much use to anyone, make it higher and it could end up duplicating the KOL requirement for ILR. Better, as I said in a previous post in this topic, to have a mandatory test after two years in the UK, whether one is applying for ILR or FLR.

[AngryParent]

I am a total supporter of pre-settlement English tests. It can only benefit someone coming to settle in the UK to have at least basic English conversation.

It is not racist or discriminatory if it applies to everyone equally. Settlement is bound to come with inconveniences such as showing basic language skills. It seems to me. however, that the present system is not particularly flexible and there may be other ways of demonstrating the ability to speak English.

It is a shame when people don't make the effort to speak the local language (Thai as well as English!). We know two Thai's who keeps applying for FLR rather than make an effort to improve their skills. Both live really isolated lives despite living in the UK for a number of years. Settlement in a foreign country is not a small decision and comes with responsibilities, not least to integrate IMO.

Most of our Thai friends here speak English and enjoy the benefits this brings living in the UK!

It's a pity that Thai's already here are not more organised and could have started support groups or even hold courses to help each other with the language exams and LIUK tests.

An interesting point.

Have you read the book? A1 or even B1 English level is not enough. You mention this test, that is step 2. Try and think for a minute how a non-native English speaker would interpret each paragraph. I have taught rich and poor students in Thailand, and I have taught adults. For those who are not teachers of Thais, reading the chapters may take a couple of hours, and may seem simple enough. Try and explain 1 paragraph to your Thai neighbour and then ask them 2 questions (mulitiple choice - the questions are written to cater for higher level English) and see if they can answer it.

Thai family members are disadvanteged compared to those from many other nations - the same standard may apply, but the effort to reach that standard is not the same for all citizens of all countries.

Edited December 20, 2011 by AngryParent

[7by7]

Have you read the book? A1 or even B1 English level is not enough. You mention this test, that is step 2. Try and think for a minute how a non-native English speaker would interpret each paragraph. I have taught rich and poor students in Thailand, and I have taught adults. For those who are not teachers of Thais, reading the chapters may take a couple of hours, and may seem simple enough. Try and explain 1 paragraph to your Thai neighbour and then ask them 2 questions (mulitiple choice - the questions are written to cater for higher level English) and see if they can answer it.

To satisfy KOL; for those whose English is not of a high enough standard to understand the LitUK study materials or the test itself, there is the alternative route of an ESOL with citizenship course. Which overcomes the 'problem' you state.

Thai family members are disadvanteged compared to those from many other nations - the same standard may apply, but the effort to reach that standard is not the same for all citizens of all countries.

My wife could speak, though not read or write, English when I met her; she'd taught herself from a book. Does this mean she is more intelligent than you assess most Thais as being, or did she just have a better teacher?

[RAZZELL]

An interesting point.

Have you read the book? A1 or even B1 English level is not enough. You mention this test, that is step 2. Try and think for a minute how a non-native English speaker would interpret each paragraph. I have taught rich and poor students in Thailand, and I have taught adults. For those who are not teachers of Thais, reading the chapters may take a couple of hours, and may seem simple enough. Try and explain 1 paragraph to your Thai neighbour and then ask them 2 questions (mulitiple choice - the questions are written to cater for higher level English) and see if they can answer it.

Thai family members are disadvanteged compared to those from many other nations - the same standard may apply, but the effort to reach that standard is not the same for all citizens of all countries.

So, Thais are not as intelligent as people from other countries are they?

What rubbish

RAZZ

Edited December 20, 2011 by RAZZELL