What To Do When You Have Wrongly Been Given A Ticket By The Traffic Police?

[01322521959]

Just yesterday I was stopped on Nang wong wan road for no apparent reason(what's new?) I was in a bad mood and showed my international license, and generally kicked up a fuss and was told to go on my way. I think what made me so indignant was the fact that I'd just seen, about a mile back, the usual baby in mums arms on the bike and 3 students without helmets cr*p.

Doesn't always work as I've found in the past, to my cost...

[01322521959]

A few years ago due to the "yellowshirts" running on to the runway in Phuket, I was forced to hire a car from Phuket to Bangkok. I was trying to get there as fast as possible (doing around 140 kph. A traffic cop stopped me and I explained I needed to be in BKK asap, I slipped him 200 thb to let me off. He said to my Wife, he wanted 5000 thb. I said that was a bit rich wasnt it, my wife explained he wanted 5000 thb (around 80 quid back then) to escort me to the edge of the province near Hau hin. I paid and in front of me was a police motor cylce and a cop car behind me, We were travelling at 160 kph for about a hour. That was such a rush and so worth the bribe.

My advice to the op, pay the cops the money, they keep the bad guys away from you and the bribes are cheap too. Dont escalate, pay.

lol

[01322521959]

I have never understood the compulsion for people to drive vehicles when an alternative form of transportation is available; in BKK you got taxis, motorcycle taxis, etc and why would anyone want to pilot themselves around in the crazy traffic if this is the case?...crazy assed drivers and crooked cops and the list goes on, <deleted> wantin' to steal yer hubcaps and your stereo...other than for yer weekly grocery shop whadaya need a car for anyway?

I live in a small country town and we have an old minivan purchased from the BMTA about 5 years ago and there is always someone around to drive, usually to do a big grocery shop or to go to Ayutthaya once a year for immigration business...I've never been behind the wheel in 10 years of living in Thailand and don't intend to be...I get in the back with my drink and my wife and the kids and moooove on down the road...life couldn't be any better...

No disrespect, but would you be retired by any chance? Some of us value our independence..

[samsiam]

Other than for military duty quite some time ago, I first returned to Thailand as a guest of the Thai Senate. Driving around Victory Monument one day, a bus cut me off, forcing me to swerve and stop to keep from getting hit by it. I pulled back into the lane after and continued, and a cop stopped me for being in the wrong lane.

I called my friend, whose father-in-law was the president of the Senate and who was his chief of staff. I gave the phone to the cop who went ashen, not saying a word. He motioned to his boss, a young cop who sauntered over and gave me an evil look. He slouched and took the phone from the junior cop. As he listened, I could see his body slowly come to attention, his eyes wide. He nodded vigorously, said one or two words, then gave me back the phone, saluted me, and emphatically motioned for me to proceed on my way.

I laughed about it for quite some time after that.

sounds like a pointless waste of a favour to me.

Exactly....but some feel the need to big note

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Just yesterday I was stopped on Nang wong wan road for no apparent reason(what's new?) I was in a bad mood and showed my international license, and generally kicked up a fuss and was told to go on my way. I think what made me so indignant was the fact that I'd just seen, about a mile back, the usual baby in mums arms on the bike and 3 students without helmets cr*p.

Doesn't always work as I've found in the past, to my cost...

Why resurrect such a tired old thread?

[MrRealDeal]

Court cases are about what you can prove , police anwhere are assumed to be the winner in a he said she said , so you will probabbly lose , HOWEVER the constant posts about how people are putting themselves at risk for going to court or that they should not plead their cases in court is complete NONSENSE.

Is it easier and probabbly less expensive to pay the money on the spot? yes it is, but so is just paying the fine anyplace else. But comments like you might go to jail for arguing (sensibly) are simply not true unless you are the crazy yelling and screaming wacko type.

In your paticular case as you decribed it you should take some pictures so you can at least prove your story would have been possible , if you want to go to court you should go to court, all you will lose is the case a little time and pay the actual fine.

It's people like you who will end this kind of thing not the people who complain and do nothing. Personally I like the way it is so I just pay the 100 and move on , my wife on the other hand makes a huge scene , refeses to move the car to block any line , refeuses to give her license and eventually they just tell her to hit the road. She sometimes says ok write a ticket but i'm not giving you my license as a compromise and then just does'nt pay the fine.

People can chose to do whatever they want , but saying it's dangerous to use the courts in Thailand is absolute nonsense. Also saying you have zero chance of winning is alsolute nonsense just because you are a guest , what is true is that pretty much anyplace courts will listen to the cops with more weight than you. So obviously having a whitness is a lot of help in any case anyplace.

This chicken poop attitude about how dangerous it is in Thailand to stand up for yourself is just NONSENSE. Most of the people saying how unfair a Thai court would be, have never even seen the inside of one, let alone been the party to a case, have no real basis to even say it except heresay and assumptions. I say this about the numerous similar threads where people say not to use the courts and just get walked on or extorted ect. If you want to because it makes your life easier and you dont care fine ..... but if you don't their is NOTHING dangerous or foolish about pleading your case to the Judge. Albiet a waste of time just like anyother place would be unless you have more evedence to back up your claim than the cops or another party.

When it becomes dangerous , weather dealing with thick necked NY mafia types or cops or neighbors , is not just because you disagree , refuse to pay , or stand up for yourself , it's how you go about doing it that gets people in trouble , 99 pct of the people in the world don't pay mafia extortionsits ie:NYC ...... very few end up in dumpsters because they are smart enough to be polite and firm and stand up for themselves , pretty much everyone can respect that , it 's the guy who says ... screw you and your mother back in Italy that end up in a dumpster.

The same thing applys here ..... Just be polite , state your case , try your best to end it without cops , lawyers or courts , but if that fails and you want to use the courts ..... USE THEM and don't be persuaded not to by anyone else.

All this assumes you are a normal person and eveyone in town doesn't already hate you and it assumes your complaint is valid and reasonable and it assumes the people you are dealing with are not completly crazy which is the overwhelming number of people in Thailand or anyplace else ...... The bassakwards parts of these ongoing threads is that the assumption is that all Thai police or people are crazy wacko murderers or violent people who are going to come after you or your family for refusing to be a sap ...... sorry but that's just not true.

[smokie36]

You should pay up OP and thank your lucky stars they are not adding points to your licence.

Its wrong but there is nothing you can do. I speak from recent experience.

Edit: Just make sure to point out the officer involved to your friends....so they know who to avoid in future.

Edited June 1, 2012 by smokie36

[YipYipYa123]

i got stopped today following a load of motorcycle taxis making an illegal crossing over a train track when the road was gridlocked

it was pandemonium ,the police were physically grabbing as many people as they could but only getting less than half id say

cop quickly asked for 400 because people $$$$$ were "escaping " rapidly as he was talking to me and i told him i can pay 200 here and now but if we go

to collect my wife and then the bank and then to the station to get a ticket then i could pay 400,he thought for a second and quickly agreed on 200

after getting the 200 he stuffed it into his shirt ASAP and let me continue riding illegally accross a traintrack to take my required shortcut (didnt make me go the correct way through all those trafic lights )

and he went quickly and grabbed the next guy who was riding slow enough to catch

those cops today must have made tens of thousands in fines during those few hours of afternoon rush hour ,probably hardly any official tickets were written up amongst the

bags of money that must have been collected

[poanoi]

What i did when a police wrongly accused me for speeding,

is that i politely showed my driving license, but snapped his fingers every time he tried

to lay his hands on it.

He then said i had to come to police station, to which i agreed,

but not before i had my cup of morning coffee.

While i had my coffee he stopped and said something, can't remember what,

but i walked over to him and asked if he saw the car parked on the no parking zone ?

and then asked his name, his answer was

"my name is f*** you" !

i said lets go station right away, but when we got to the police station he wanted to shake hands and

forget about the whole thing.

He didn't want me to report him to his commanding officer for failing to identify himself &

not doing his duty wrt the wrongly parked car.

btw i've never had a problem since, altho one guy a couple of days later waved me in

but said was only joking & carry on.

btw2: i will always stop if a police say so, and i will always pay if i know i was in the wrong,

like if not wearing a helmet (but now i always do, too fed up paying)

Penal Code of Thailand

Section 157 Whoever, being an official,

wrongfully exercises or does not exercise any of his functions to the injury of any person,

or dishonestly exercises or omits to exercise any of his functions,

shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years or fined of two thousand to twenty thousand Baht,

or both.

Edited June 3, 2012 by metisdead

[MrRealDeal]

Smokie that just not true ..... just the act of going to court is something , the cop would no doubt rather be doing something else, and while 1 or 2 people calling a cop a liar deosn't do much, eventually Judges that see the same cop being called a liar over and over begin to think he probabbly is a liar and act accordingly.

Cops tend to leave those alone that they know will make them look like liars in court and that stand up for themselves not the reverse as people here seem to think.

Cops don't like the waste of time in court anymore than anyone else, and they don't like going in front of the judge who knows they are lying either.

[YipYipYa123]

Smokie that just not true ..... just the act of going to court is something , the cop would no doubt rather be doing something else, and while 1 or 2 people calling a cop a liar deosn't do much, eventually Judges that see the same cop being called a liar over and over begin to think he probabbly is a liar and act accordingly.

Cops tend to leave those alone that they know will make them look like liars in court and that stand up for themselves not the reverse as people here seem to think.

Cops don't like the waste of time in court anymore than anyone else, and they don't like going in front of the judge who knows they are lying either.

Court is not free ,and as a foreigner you will probably lose anyway and may not even understand whats being said ...

whats the point when i can pay a quick 100 thb and be on my way to making REAL MONEY

besides ,even if lawyers and court was free ,my time isnt and i value each and every hour i could spend with the people i love

instead of being dragged through a court case with some stinking corrupt bangkok police that i can never win anyway

besides ,even if 1 cop says i did it ,all his mates will agree ,it wont be just "my word against his"....

[nocturn]

Smokie that just not true ..... just the act of going to court is something , the cop would no doubt rather be doing something else, and while 1 or 2 people calling a cop a liar deosn't do much, eventually Judges that see the same cop being called a liar over and over begin to think he probabbly is a liar and act accordingly.

Cops tend to leave those alone that they know will make them look like liars in court and that stand up for themselves not the reverse as people here seem to think.

Cops don't like the waste of time in court anymore than anyone else, and they don't like going in front of the judge who knows they are lying either.

Court is not free ,and as a foreigner you will probably lose anyway and may not even understand whats being said ...

whats the point when i can pay a quick 100 thb and be on my way to making REAL MONEY

besides ,even if lawyers and court was free ,my time isnt and i value each and every hour i could spend with the people i love

instead of being dragged through a court case with some stinking corrupt bangkok police that i can never win anyway

besides ,even if 1 cop says i did it ,all his mates will agree ,it wont be just "my word against his"....

the whole lose in Thai court because you are a foreigner thing is a myth. in this situation the cop would not even show. If he was honest it would probably not be worth his time. If he were dirty, it would definitely not be worth it.

Edited June 1, 2012 by nocturn

[xthAi76s]

I know it's a case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted for the OP for which I apologise for being unhelpful but, the few times I've been stopped for some non-existent speeding offense, I've found that being polite but firm in my insistence of my innocence has always worked.

I got stopped just past a toll booth on the Don Muang Expressway a few months back. Seems that they were targeting everybody who came through. Went something like this

Me: Hello why have you stopped me?

Cop: You were speeding

Me: No I wasn't. MY GPS says so. I thought you were here because you got me ( genuinely speeding ) last week.

My wife then politely but firmly said " Can we go please we're running late"

Bit of back and forth and we're on our way.

When I've been genuinely speeding and tried to jovially bullshit my way out of it the cop always radios the guy with the speed camera who gives my reg. number and speed so in those cases they've got me bang to rights anyhow.

But paying off a cop for a non-existent offense? F#ck that. Let someone else bend over and take it up the Gary but not this boy.

This is basically my experience as well with 14+ years experience on Thai roads.

If the OP wants to give it a shot and head down to the police station, then give it a go, but I wouldn't press to hard. Rack it up to experience and the next time just remember what MCA has done, be nice, deny the imagined infringement and you'll soon be on your way. It has worked in my experience too.

A Thai colleague challenged the charge at the local cop shop several years back.

He got a very angry response from the man in charge "are you saying my policeman is a liar?". Then the suggestion that my colleague would be charged with interfering in a policeman's duty or something similar with 48 hrs to cool off.

It frightened the sh.. out of my colleague and he then quickly offered to have all the air-conditioners serviced at the station.

When this was completed he paid the fine and got his license back.

Fair point.

I'd probably go down and ask something along the lines of "if I wanted to dispute this ticket, what do I need to do?" and see where that takes me (and whether it was worth the effort). I've generally not had bad experience with the coppers in Thailand and have been able to sort things out amicably and without a bribe.

I think I also recall reading in one of your posts that you speak fluent Thai. Is that correct? If so, that can make a world of difference.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I'd probably go down and ask something along the lines of "if I wanted to dispute this ticket, what do I need to do?" and see where that takes me (and whether it was worth the effort). I've generally not had bad experience with the coppers in Thailand and have been able to sort things out amicably and without a bribe.

This would most likely work out fine for you.

But most of us would consider it a poor use of valuable time and energy, and of course any unnecessary contact with the BIB carries with it some risk.

[poanoi]

Pay Attention: You are not the only one at risk

Penal Code of Thailand

Section 157 Whoever, being an official,

wrongfully exercises or does not exercise any of his functions to the injury of any person,

or dishonestly exercises or omits to exercise any of his functions,

shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years or fined of two thousand to twenty thousand Baht,

or both.

[LucidLucifer]

Where would you stand if you had a dash-cam that could play back and prove you didn't do what the officer was accusing you of?

Personally, I am unsure of this......and for the sake of 200baht, annoying yes, but neverless small change really, I'm thinking would I risk showing the officer the camera footage.

I'm saying risk, because making a cop lose face out here, which is what would happen, is not my idea of a good idea. In that situation I could see the cop magic up some other, more serious and expensive charge.

What thoughts do others have on this? Does anyone have any first-hand experience of doing this?

[evadgib]

What about the loss of face to the ferang?

Edited June 2, 2012 by evadgib

[LucidLucifer]

What about the loss of face to the ferang?

In what respect do you mean, having to pay an undeserved fine?

I don't think that comes into it; the copper has a badge, uniform and gun and will be backed up by a huge mafia type criminal organisation other policemen.

[YipYipYa123]

What about the loss of face to the ferang?

i always tell the wife not to worry about stuff ,because i as a Farang have "Face Unlimited " and

only someone with a small amount of face will be afraid of losing some

[MrRealDeal]

If you have proof you are not in the wrong and are afraid to stand up for yourself I feel really really sorry for how whimpy you are ..... If you just don't want to be bothered thats another thing.

[bonobo]

I turned right right in front of a police booth, and a cop stopped me, telling me I made an illegal turn. I got out of the car and led him back to a sign with a right turn arrow. He laughed and told me that it was for busses only. I could not read the Thai script underneath. Chastened, I expected to pay, but he just laughed again and motioned me on my way.

I was also stopped on the expressway at the Rama IX exit going in the out-of-town direction. The cop told me I had made a dangerous lane change to make the exit. For some reason, this hit a nerve, and unlike my normal way of going about things, I got angry and accused him of stopping me just because I was a foreigner. In excellent English, he told me he couldn't see my face as I was too far away to know if I was Thai or farang. I jumped on that and asked him that if I was too far away for him to see me, how could my lane change to the exit have been dangerous? He thought about this for a moment, then nodded and motioned me on my way.

[LucidLucifer]

If you have proof you are not in the wrong and are afraid to stand up for yourself I feel really really sorry for how whimpy you are ..... If you just don't want to be bothered thats another thing.

It doesn't come down to being a wimp, it comes down to making a Thai copper lose face, because that is what you would be doing by proving him wrong in that way.

I'm asking you, do you really think he will go, 'well i'm sorry about that sir, my mistake, you be on your way and drive carefully.' Little chance I would say, but I am interested to hear from people who have done this. If you haven't RealDeal, your comment isn't necessary.

Dispute it with him, yes, certainly (as bonobo did in the above post).....back him into a corner, I can't help thinking it's not wise.

Don't start battles you can't win, and I don't see this as winable, so yes I wouldn't be bothered. As I said in my earlier post....200 baht, it's nothing in the bid scheme of things. If the copper was asking for a lot more than that, then i'd be more tempted to pull video evidence out.

Edited June 3, 2012 by LucidLucifer

[poanoi]

it comes down to making a Thai copper lose face, because that is what you would be doing by proving him wrong in that way.

He is losing both his face, arse & job if you do it the right way, in addition to the risk of being prosecuted according to Penal code section 157, and he don't want that.

refer to http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5353235

Penal Code of Thailand

Section 157 Whoever, being an official,

wrongfully exercises or does not exercise any of his functions to the injury of any person,

or dishonestly exercises or omits to exercise any of his functions,

shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years or fined of two thousand to twenty thousand Baht,

or both.

Edited June 3, 2012 by poanoi

[YipYipYa123]

it comes down to making a Thai copper lose face, because that is what you would be doing by proving him wrong in that way.

He is losing both his face, arse & job if you do it the right way, in addition to the risk of being prosecuted according to Penal code section 157, and he don't want that.

refer to http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5353235

Penal Code of Thailand

Section 157 Whoever, being an official,

wrongfully exercises or does not exercise any of his functions to the injury of any person,

or dishonestly exercises or omits to exercise any of his functions,

shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years or fined of two thousand to twenty thousand Baht,

or both.

serious punishment OR fined 2k-20k by his boss

wonder which one he would get ?

I havent heard of many policemen being jailed for corruption in thailand

usually they get moved to a less "lucrative" post when their greed or incompetence comes to light in the media

[samran]

Fair point.

I'd probably go down and ask something along the lines of "if I wanted to dispute this ticket, what do I need to do?" and see where that takes me (and whether it was worth the effort). I've generally not had bad experience with the coppers in Thailand and have been able to sort things out amicably and without a bribe.

I think I also recall reading in one of your posts that you speak fluent Thai. Is that correct? If so, that can make a world of difference.

As said, it might not be worth the effort - it all depends.

As for speaking fluent Thai - not really needed when pulled over - it is easy to employ two strategies.

1) As for a ticket: "Kor Bai Sung" (Can I have the ticket please). If infringement is imagined, they are going to be reluctant in writing it.

2) Silence accompanied by hands firmly kept in pockets. As the copper waits for a bribe, more easy to catch fish are whizzing by. The opportunity cost of such an approach quickly becomes apparent, and you get waived on.

[samran]

I'd probably go down and ask something along the lines of "if I wanted to dispute this ticket, what do I need to do?" and see where that takes me (and whether it was worth the effort). I've generally not had bad experience with the coppers in Thailand and have been able to sort things out amicably and without a bribe.

This would most likely work out fine for you.

But most of us would consider it a poor use of valuable time and energy, and of course any unnecessary contact with the BIB carries with it some risk.

All depends. My advice i recall was to the orginal query of 'how do you challenge this'. One approach some would take would probably be to storm down to the cop shop and see what happens. That isn't going to work, so the other is the gently gently approach, for those who insist on speaking to the coppers.

I've only ever had two fines in my time in Thailand, both my fault. The others, I called their bluff and was on my way.

[LucidLucifer]

it comes down to making a Thai copper lose face, because that is what you would be doing by proving him wrong in that way.

He is losing both his face, arse & job if you do it the right way, in addition to the risk of being prosecuted according to Penal code section 157, and he don't want that.

refer to http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5353235

Penal Code of Thailand

Section 157 Whoever, being an official,

wrongfully exercises or does not exercise any of his functions to the injury of any person,

or dishonestly exercises or omits to exercise any of his functions,

shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years or fined of two thousand to twenty thousand Baht,

or both.

Lovely in theory.....how is it likely to pan out in reality?

I am not arguing for or against a dash-cams use. I am simply asking the question, has anyone ever used a one to prove their innocence of a traffic offense, and how did it work out?

And do you really believe even for one fleeting millisecond a policeman will lose his job because he falsely accused a farang of a minor traffic violation. For gods sake, they pretty much get away with murder out here.

[StoneSoup]

To the OP: You are misinterpreting the situation. You were not being unjustly fined for an imaginary offense - although that is how things appeared to you.

You were being assessed a periodic "user fee" for using the roadways. In Thailand, civil servants get paid next to nothing - meaning that your average (rare) taxpayer is not underwriting the cost of traffic police salaries. Instead, the compensation of the traffic police division is continually being collected directly from users of the roadways. If you have a car, and use the roadways, you pay. This may even affect you as a passenger in a taxi. But - people who do NOT use the roadways are never assessed any such user fee by the traffic police division. They simply ignore you.

The same applies to Thai Customs - importers will be assessed a "Customs formality" charge - but if you never directly import goods, you will not pay this "user fee" contribution to the Customs salary pool.

The system generally works smoothly and - amazingly - quite appropriately.

As a westerner, you might prefer to simply pay personal higher income taxes, to be used to pay higher salaries to government employees. You are entitled to that belief. But - the "user fee" concept is how Thailand currently works. I would suggest - as have many others in this thread - that you pay your "roadway user fee" with a smile, and get on with your life. Don't upset the apple cart. There is a system at work, it is reasonably fair, and it makes no sense to "rage against the machine".

Your payment most likely did not go to make some fat cat policeman super-comfortable. It most likely went into a pool, from which all ranks drew their appropriate proportion - albeit more going to the higher-ranking officials, according to a seniority system that will eventually reward the once-junior members, in their turn.

Cheers!

SS

[poanoi]

it comes down to making a Thai copper lose face, because that is what you would be doing by proving him wrong in that way.

He is losing both his face, arse & job if you do it the right way, in addition to the risk of being prosecuted according to Penal code section 157, and he don't want that.

refer to http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5353235

Penal Code of Thailand

Section 157 Whoever, being an official,

wrongfully exercises or does not exercise any of his functions to the injury of any person,

or dishonestly exercises or omits to exercise any of his functions,

shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years or fined of two thousand to twenty thousand Baht,

or both.

Lovely in theory.....how is it likely to pan out in reality?

I am not arguing for or against a dash-cams use. I am simply asking the question, has anyone ever used a one to prove their innocence of a traffic offense, and how did it work out?

And do you really believe even for one fleeting millisecond a policeman will lose his job because he falsely accused a farang of a minor traffic violation. For gods sake, they pretty much get away with murder out here.

The Policeman clearly thought for around 20 minutes about the situation, and perhaps consulted friends,

before he came to the conclusion that it was better to shake hands with me and forget about the whole thing, and what's more, hoping i would forget about the whole thing

[kurnell]

So many heroes on this forum with friends in 'high places'! Every time a nasty man picks on you, you're on the phone to the big guy to help you solve your problem. I reckon I know at least 3 influential people that could help me every time I stub my toe, but I would be embarrassed to ask.