Thailand grants citizenship to half a million people – but not farangs

[geriatrickid]

The best thing Thailand's elders can do for it's youth is to go away and get off the political stage.

umm ok

Edited December 23, 2011 by geriatrickid

[lannarebirth]

Pithy.

[geriatrickid]

More and more and more and more BS ...

What does this article says ? That the relevant administration will publish a calendar for vaccination, and for the majors civic duties like reporting for conscription.

On the education side, the plan will state what are the goal of the eduction system, like at what age a kid should be able to read, write and what kind of basic knowledge should he/she has a some specific age.

Nothing revolutionary, it's something that already exist in all develloped countries.

But you add a misleading tittle, Nation style, and a bunch of posters who can't understand what they read and are only interested in starting a new pissing contest ...

If ThaiVisa want to lose its reputation as the sexpats forum, much more improvements are needed than just in the cosmetic of the forum.

The point people are making, perhaps not so articulately, is that this is a pure PR wanking exercise by the government as usual. And I think that point is valid.

Not only in more developed nations, even here all these time/stage related benchmarks are already known by and commonly available to all. When what is needed is a concrete realistic plan for radical reform of the whole education system from the ground up in order to try actually achieve any of the goals.

Which IMO will never happen here, because a well-educated population would not be in the interest of those in control.

In this case "relevant administration" is an oxymoron.

No, it is not the point some are making. What is evidenced is a knee jerk reaction manifesting blind hatred.

Your criticism is constructive and makes a valid point in respect to education. I agree with you. However, there has to be a starting point, a statement of objectives first, before the social engineering you recommend can start.

[Reasonableman]

More and more and more and more BS ...

What does this article says ? That the relevant administration will publish a calendar for vaccination, and for the majors civic duties like reporting for conscription.

On the education side, the plan will state what are the goal of the eduction system, like at what age a kid should be able to read, write and what kind of basic knowledge should he/she has a some specific age.

Nothing revolutionary, it's something that already exist in all develloped countries.

But you add a misleading tittle, Nation style, and a bunch of posters who can't understand what they read and are only interested in starting a new pissing contest ...

If ThaiVisa want to lose its reputation as the sexpats forum, much more improvements are needed than just in the cosmetic of the forum.

Indeed, a major improvement on TV would be a spelling/grammar checker, unless the advent of the newly coined word "tittle" passed me by unseen. Suspect some foreign education systems could do with improvement, as well.

[geriatrickid]

We all know what it's good for people to achieve, but achieving it is another thing. This hasn't be achieved in any country in the world. Even in the richest countries there are still people who can do the basics like reading and writing.

As you aptly demonstrate with your mangled syntax;

An improvement would be;

who cannot perform basic skills such as reading and writing

[Briggsy]

The article lacks details. It does not say, any more than superficially, what is in the plan and gives no information about implementation and remedial action when people go "off plan". The Nation needs to provide fuller details.

[hanuman1]

More and more and more and more BS ...

What does this article says ? That the relevant administration will publish a calendar for vaccination, and for the majors civic duties like reporting for conscription.

On the education side, the plan will state what are the goal of the eduction system, like at what age a kid should be able to read, write and what kind of basic knowledge should he/she has a some specific age.

Nothing revolutionary, it's something that already exist in all develloped countries.

But you add a misleading tittle, Nation style, and a bunch of posters who can't understand what they read and are only interested in starting a new pissing contest ...

If ThaiVisa want to lose its reputation as the sexpats forum, much more improvements are needed than just in the cosmetic of the forum.

And the Prime Minister herself needs to be on this, because?

You cannot rebut the points made, so you go off on a tangent? There is no sinister plan involved.

The fact of the matter is that every western country has a similar plan. In the west they may be formalized as a series of plans, such as innoculation schedules or pedagological achievements.

The concept of the plan introduces milestones and due dates and is how projects and development projects are monitored and managed.

The nasty negative comments from some people here demonstrate that many of the so called experts here have no work experience on projects and no education. I find it depressing that the gullible guppies of TVF gulp up the Nations article and pile on to twist out of context a harmless plan. This usually occurs when ignorant people get hold of something that their limited intellects are unable to comprehend.

Agreed. I'm only surprised none of the 'gullible guppies of TVF' have figured out a way to link this story in to Thaksin/Yingluck embezzling loads more money.

Still, it's only the 2nd page of the thread. Give 'em time....So far only one of them has engaged with the points made in the OP, so hope remains.

Edited December 23, 2011 by hanuman1

[JurgenG]

More and more and more and more BS ...

What does this article says ? That the relevant administration will publish a calendar for vaccination, and for the majors civic duties like reporting for conscription.

On the education side, the plan will state what are the goal of the eduction system, like at what age a kid should be able to read, write and what kind of basic knowledge should he/she has a some specific age.

Nothing revolutionary, it's something that already exist in all develloped countries.

But you add a misleading tittle, Nation style, and a bunch of posters who can't understand what they read and are only interested in starting a new pissing contest ...

If ThaiVisa want to lose its reputation as the sexpats forum, much more improvements are needed than just in the cosmetic of the forum.

Indeed, a major improvement on TV would be a spelling/grammar checker, unless the advent of the newly coined word "tittle" passed me by unseen. Suspect some foreign education systems could do with improvement, as well.

The word does exist : a point or small sign used as a diacritical mark in writing or printing.

Edited December 23, 2011 by JurgenG

[YankeeVet]

At what age should I become an Evil Mastermind with a fluffy cat?

Please STOP. Laughing too hard. No more, please!

[animatic]

More and more and more and more BS ...

What does this article says ? That the relevant administration will publish a calendar for vaccination, and for the majors civic duties like reporting for conscription.

On the education side, the plan will state what are the goal of the eduction system, like at what age a kid should be able to read, write and what kind of basic knowledge should he/she has a some specific age.

Nothing revolutionary, it's something that already exist in all develloped countries.

But you add a misleading tittle, Nation style, and a bunch of posters who can't understand what they read and are only interested in starting a new pissing contest ...

If ThaiVisa want to lose its reputation as the sexpats forum, much more improvements are needed than just in the cosmetic of the forum.

And the Prime Minister herself needs to be on this, because?

You cannot rebut the points made, so you go off on a tangent? There is no sinister plan involved.

The fact of the matter is that every western country has a similar plan. In the west they may be formalized as a series of plans, such as innoculation schedules or pedagological achievements.

The concept of the plan introduces milestones and due dates and is how projects and development projects are monitored and managed.

The nasty negative comments from some people here demonstrate that many of the so called experts here have no work experience on projects and no education. I find it depressing that the gullible guppies of TVF gulp up the Nations article and pile on to twist out of context a harmless plan. This usually occurs when ignorant people get hold of something that their limited intellects are unable to comprehend.

The point being is she SHOULD have bigger things to deal with than this wallpaper and distraction from serious problems . Not getting caught up in the trees while dealing with the forest, is called delegation of authority, but she didn't learn that at home obviously. Micromanagement of the little stuff, and ignore the big difficult stuff, and make sure no one notices that inaction.

Edited December 23, 2011 by animatic

[Moruya]

A lot of what is said here makes sense. There would be nothing wrong with having a tick sheet for innoculations for example.

It goes off the rails a bit with the 2 million people of student age (5-21) dropping out of the education system but once the free education stops at 15, the only real option for working class adolescents continuing is to work and study. Many of the rural jobs are either farming, sugar factories, paper factories, garment manufacturing etc. that don't require much in the way of an education - there are not many places with an alternative - even less after the flooding and increase in wage costs.

And it just drops into the abyss when it says that one of the key things is to get students ready for the ASEAN market - what are we doing here? Farming people?

[animatic]

More and more and more and more BS ...

What does this article says ? That the relevant administration will publish a calendar for vaccination, and for the majors civic duties like reporting for conscription.

On the education side, the plan will state what are the goal of the eduction system, like at what age a kid should be able to read, write and what kind of basic knowledge should he/she has a some specific age.

Nothing revolutionary, it's something that already exist in all develloped countries.

But you add a misleading tittle, Nation style, and a bunch of posters who can't understand what they read and are only interested in starting a new pissing contest ...

If ThaiVisa want to lose its reputation as the sexpats forum, much more improvements are needed than just in the cosmetic of the forum.

Indeed, a major improvement on TV would be a spelling/grammar checker, unless the advent of the newly coined word "tittle" passed me by unseen. Suspect some foreign education systems could do with improvement, as well.

The word does exist : a point or small sign used as a diacritical mark in writing or printing.

tit·tle  [tit-l] Show IPA noun

1. a dot or other small mark in writing or printing, used as a diacritic, punctuation, etc.

2. a very small part or quantity; a particle, jot, or whit: He said he didn't care a tittle.

A diacritical mark . a mark, point, or sign addedor attached to a letter or character to distinguish it fromanother of similar form, to give it a particular phoneticvalue, to indicate stress, etc., as a cedilla, tilde, circumflex,or macron.

As well as;

Yelberton Abraham Tittle (born October 24, 1926),

better known as Y. A. Tittle, is a former football quarterback in the National Football League and All-America Football Conference who played for the Baltimore Colts, San Francisco 49ers, and the New York Giants. He was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1971.

Edited December 23, 2011 by animatic

[hanuman1]

At what age should I become an Evil Mastermind with a fluffy cat?

Please STOP. Laughing too hard. No more, please!

He's clearly a very funny man..... Personally, I like a guy who can lampoon his own overblown misconceptions.

Shows a measure of self awareness we could all do with a dose of

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed. This topic is not about the forum. Re-read the OP if necessary.

[geriatrickid]

The point being is she SHOULD have bigger things to deal with than this wallpaper and distraction from serious problems . Not getting caught up in the trees while dealing with the forest, is called delegation of authority, but she didn't learn that at home obviously. Micromanagement of the little stuff, and ignore the big difficult stuff, and make sure no one notices that inaction.

How much bigger can you get than the development of a national strategy to improve the nation? How do you expect people to know where they are, if there is progress, unless there is the establishment of some specific milestones? This is how projects are managed. As PM she is leading the implementation of the master project, and the responsibility to address the targets set out will rest with other ministers/leaders/managers as per their particlar domains.

You really are being inconsistent when you complain about the PM's leadership in this matter. You keep demanding she address national problems. Well, she is doing that by saying to people this is what we should be achieving by these specific time periods. You can huff and you can puff, but all the hot air that the cadre of angry farangs will blow will not be enough to blow the house down that the electorate of Thailand built.

Edited December 23, 2011 by geriatrickid

[tlansford]

As usual we have the yellow brigade who posts according to party line without even considering (understanding ?) the subject at hand. Because what's wrong with establishing benchmark for the eduction system ? Everybody complains about the dire strait of the education system, trying to improve it should not be a priority ? And the PM should not put her weight behind such action ? For reminder No Child Left Behind was one of the priority of George W. just after he took office. What is good for the USA is not good for Thailand ?

How did they learn to write without learning to read?

Having national standards and benchmarks is a good idea, and I was surprised that this did not already (apparently) exist??

[tlansford]

A lot of what is said here makes sense. There would be nothing wrong with having a tick sheet for innoculations for example.

It goes off the rails a bit with the 2 million people of student age (5-21) dropping out of the education system but once the free education stops at 15, the only real option for working class adolescents continuing is to work and study. Many of the rural jobs are either farming, sugar factories, paper factories, garment manufacturing etc. that don't require much in the way of an education - there are not many places with an alternative - even less after the flooding and increase in wage costs.

And it just drops into the abyss when it says that one of the key things is to get students ready for the ASEAN market - what are we doing here? Farming people?

Agree with you.

And that broad age range for students, 5 - 21, makes the statistic uninteresting - even if just for a news article.

IMO Thailand needs to incrementally extend the free education years (over time) until it covers the first university degree.

[geriatrickid]

Agree with you.

And that broad age range for students, 5 - 21, makes the statistic uninteresting - even if just for a news article.

IMO Thailand needs to incrementally extend the free education years (over time) until it covers the first university degree.

Thailand can't afford free uni education for all. It was tried in some western nations and has failed. Better to invest in the basics first.

[thaifrelst]

This plan is the best thing ever happened to Thailand. It is the first time I ever have read anything that will get Thailand out of misery. This is the first time I have seen any political thougths from Thai politicians.

And for the comments from this blog:

I know I am correct when I answer the question about which people that goes to Thailand; loosers,loosers,loosers....

[Briggsy]

This plan is the best thing ever happened to Thailand. It is the first time I ever have read anything that will get Thailand out of misery. This is the first time I have seen any political thougths from Thai politicians.

And for the comments from this blog:

I know I am correct when I answer the question about which people that goes to Thailand; loosers,loosers,loosers....

I think the correct spelling is losers, losers, losers. I'll go and get my coat.

[tlansford]

Agree with you.

And that broad age range for students, 5 - 21, makes the statistic uninteresting - even if just for a news article.

IMO Thailand needs to incrementally extend the free education years (over time) until it covers the first university degree.

Thailand can't afford free uni education for all. It was tried in some western nations and has failed. Better to invest in the basics first.

Agree with you about the basics, certainly ... I did mention incrementally... First is to take the kids to 18/19 years of age.

I disagree about free universities in western nations, however. Free universities are serving France and Germany quite well now for a long time. They are certainly not failures. There is also a good system of vocational schools. A mix is important. But I'm getting off the topic.

[tlansford]

We all know what it's good for people to achieve, but achieving it is another thing. This hasn't be achieved in any country in the world. Even in the richest countries there are still people who can do the basics like reading and writing.

Achieving it is indeed a different thing.

One study showed that 14% of Americans are functionally illiterate.

[kevinellerton]

What does this article says ? That the relevant administration will publish a calendar for vaccination, and for the majors civic duties like reporting for conscription.

On the education side, the plan will state what are the goal of the eduction system, like at what age a kid should be able to read, write and what kind of basic knowledge should he/she has a some specific age.

Nothing revolutionary, it's something that already exist in all develloped countries.

But you add a misleading tittle, Nation style, and a bunch of posters who can't understand what they read and are only interested in starting a new pissing contest ...

+1

[thanchart]

As usual we have the yellow brigade who posts according to party line without even considering (understanding ?) the subject at hand.

Because what's wrong with establishing benchmark for the eduction system ? Everybody complains about the dire strait of the education system, trying to improve it should not be a priority ? And the PM should not put her weight behind such action ?

For reminder No Child Left Behind was one of the priority of George W. just after he took office. What is good for the USA is not good for Thailand ?

You are absolutely correct.

While I am not a supporter of any particular political party as I judged each policy on its own merit, what PM Yingluck is attempting here is fair and has foresight - setting of milestones that the Thais should achieve at the minimum. Of course how she can guide her team to cross these milestones successfully remains to be seen, but surely we all agree that the "Longest Journey begins with the First Step?"

Many of the more advanced countries that this country can learn from have done that - Singapore included. In fact Goal 2020 was originally set by the Founder PM of Singfapore (Harry Lee KY) many years ago - for Singapore to be considered a Developed Country by 2020 (hence losing the "privileges" developing countries often get in terms of trade policies). Over the years, this Goal has morphed and been improved/refined by later generations of Ministers implementing it (this one in 2 July 2010 - Minister Sets Goal 2020 - Higher Income, Better City). Even as I write, the recent the MRT system failures in Singapore has caused the Govt to re-examine what has gone wrong with the system - not just the MRT but system-wide. It will be a challenge but I am they will wake up and address the root of the problem - probably a culture that has developed loopholes and find solutions needed. One cannot deny the Singapore's progress was largely planned and then worked hard at. and it is not by chance that the country has come thus far. When I was still a kid in grade school. we used to look up to the Philippines - but where is that country now? So mch for a so-called "democracy" that did not work.

I can't help noticing that some members here can sometimes get rather "tunnel visioned" - anything done by some people they don't like are always deemed as bad. stupid or whatever. Hope we can be objective and lift ourselves above such a mindset. It is when we can recognize the positive in those we dislike or even hate that will see real changes - in those we dislike and also in ourselves. I've done that and the results has been far reaching, if not life changing.

Encourage what is right and honorable, irregardless of who proposed/started it. That is the way to the future. There is always a silver lining in every cloud. Let not past disappoints/frustrations destroy you - its not worth it to lower yourself to that state. For instance, Opposition politics in Singapore was dead for a long long time, until a new generation of opposition rose up and started a totally different approach from the old style, which has been "Opposition for the sake of opposition". This new generation saw things are they are (good and bad) and spoke up against the bad and supported the good policies by the ruling party. Over the years, this approach is gaining the confidence of the voters and today you see a lot of opposition voted into parliament than what could be in the past.

[thanchart]

The point being is she SHOULD have bigger things to deal with than this wallpaper and distraction from serious problems . Not getting caught up in the trees while dealing with the forest, is called delegation of authority, but she didn't learn that at home obviously. Micromanagement of the little stuff, and ignore the big difficult stuff, and make sure no one notices that inaction.

Disagree. Setting of milestones is what the CEO has to do, and guiding his/her team towards it - and in this case, she is doing it. It is not her role to solve every problem. Her team has to come in. Whether the right members exist is another question and I am not in a position to answer that.

[philw]

What does this article says ? That the relevant administration will publish a calendar for vaccination, and for the majors civic duties like reporting for conscription.

On the education side, the plan will state what are the goal of the eduction system, like at what age a kid should be able to read, write and what kind of basic knowledge should he/she has a some specific age.

Nothing revolutionary, it's something that already exist in all develloped countries.

But you add a misleading tittle, Nation style, and a bunch of posters who can't understand what they read and are only interested in starting a new pissing contest ...

+1

++2

[Siam Simon]

Two things you will always see posters of a certain ilk doing on this forum: (1) paying lip service to better education; (2) Criticising each and every attempt to improve education by any political party other than the Dems as unrealistic and just another attempt at corruption .

[thanchart]

Two things you will always see posters of a certain ilk doing on this forum: (1) paying lip service to better education; (2) Criticising each and every attempt to improve education by any political party other than the Dems as unrealistic and just another attempt at corruption .

Ever thought that minds too can be corrupted? Not necessarily in the monetary sense. Sometimes being closed and therefore not being able to see a wider perspective or both sides of the coin maybe bad enough

[animatic]

The point being is she SHOULD have bigger things to deal with than this wallpaper and distraction from serious problems . Not getting caught up in the trees while dealing with the forest, is called delegation of authority, but she didn't learn that at home obviously. Micromanagement of the little stuff, and ignore the big difficult stuff, and make sure no one notices that inaction.

Disagree. Setting of milestones is what the CEO has to do, and guiding his/her team towards it - and in this case, she is doing it. It is not her role to solve every problem. Her team has to come in. Whether the right members exist is another question and I am not in a position to answer that.

If things were going smoothly I wouldn't quibble,

but 3 weeks after an as yet unsolved major, world class, ongoing crisis,

this just distracting B.S. to take our eyes of the ball.

Edited December 25, 2011 by animatic

[hellodolly]

Got as far as where they should be at a certain stage and stopped right there.

I think the word should should be taken out of circulation.

Seems to me the harm it will do to those who don't reach that stage will offset the good points.

Just my 2 baht.