Moved Back To Uk Recently.....Arrrgghhh!

[taninthai]

Well just glanced over this thread and dont really know what to think, im going back to the uk in acouple of weeks,been in thailand 8 years,work not a problem can more or less walk straight in to a job, also have a bit of spare cash i want to invest so am going to buy another property in the uk to rent out.
Been looking around and for about 600,000-700,000 bht i can mortgage a property and have tenants in their paying the mortgage off,looking around in thailand i get fuck all for 600,000 bht

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 
But you ain't buying a property in England for 700,000 baht, not unless it's a shed !

Umm yep I said mortgage a property by the time I hit my retirement years the mortgage will be paid off by the tenants and the property increased in value,I know one thing for sure englands great for earning money if you have a skill or trade.

[MrRed]

[quote name="taninthai" post="6338425" timestamp="1366898848"][quote name="alfieconn" post="6338118" timestamp="1366893640"] [quote name="taninthai" post="6338040" timestamp="1366892166"] Well just glanced over this thread and dont really know what to think, im going back to the uk in acouple of weeks,been in thailand 8 years,work not a problem can more or less walk straight in to a job, also have a bit of spare cash i want to invest so am going to buy another property in the uk to rent out. [b]Been looking around and for about 600,000-700,000 bht i can mortgage a property and have tenants in their paying the mortgage off,looking around in thailand i get fuck all for 600,000 bht[/b] Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app[/quote] But you ain't buying a property in England for 700,000 baht, not unless it's a shed ![/quote]Umm yep I said mortgage a property by the time I hit my retirement years the mortgage will be paid off by the tenants and the property increased in value,I know one thing for sure englands great for earning money if you have a skill or trade.[/quote] It was.Years ago i could earn 150/200 pound a day plastering now you cannot week in week out.

[Loptr]

I am amazed by the number foreigners that find such lucrative high paying jobs in Thailand. With the exception of certain specialized or managing directorships, the pay scales are significantly lower in Thailand than in the west, at least that's according to the designated experts like Mercer, AON Hewitt, Deloitte etc. Foreigners that are lucky enough to be employed by foreign MNEs, especially the Swiss, get lucrative top up packages. I'm paid under a western contract that gives me a modest six figure income in $US, but if I took permanent residency and accepted a Thai salary, I would see my wage be cut in half. My colleagues that thought they were going to make a killing when they ditched their homeland income tax requirements in favour of PR got a rude shock when they realized they gave up some distinct benefits and were really no better off after 5 years, once the additional costs were factored in.
Some people over value their job skills in a market and it can come as a shock when the market sets them straight. Thailand is a place where marginal westerners can do better than in their homelands if they can fill a specific niche, but it comes with a cost, a cost usually measured by a diminished lifespan.

I note the grumbling about the UK and the presence of foreigners. Guess what? Thailand is filled with foreigners too; Burmese, Cambodians, Nepalese all doing the jobs the locals cannot or will not do. Know what? Those poles that some don't like are working their butts off doing the hard jobs the lazy English think they are too good to do. Because most foreigners cannot recognize the differences between Thais and Burmese labourers, they don't see the presence of the foreigners in Thailand, a presence that will only increase as labour shortages continue.

How anyone can consider the choking polluted environment of Bangkok superor to a suburb in the USA, Australia, UK is beyond ny understanding. Living in Bangkok speeds your journey to the undertaker. The fatc is that Bangkok residents are more likely to experience respiratory ailments, more likely to have an "accident" such as electrocution, or a fall and are more likely to die in a vehicular incident than in a western residential suburb.

Sure, complain about the food int he Uk. it's never been top notch, its true, but the likelihood of consuming adulterated or unidentified genetically engineered food is greater in Thailand. the likelihood of drinking contaminated water or food is higher in Thailand. From an ethical perspective, one of the reasons why costs are slightly higher in the west is because of things like workplace safety, ethical and humane agricultural practices and a higher quality of products and construction.

One can gripe about the UK, but the high costs and taxes are due to the fact that people are taken care of. it might not be the highest quality of care or perfect, but there are no limbless beggers, no children being sold for sex, no kids being forced into depraved "adult" films that are made in pattaya and no exploitation of the poor in quite the same way as in Thailand. There is a cost to creating an environment where human dignity is maintained.

As an ex law enforcement officer (yes, a real one not a mall cop) I can tell you that you are DEAD wrong that no sexual exploitation of children happens in the UK. It does!

 

So Wossnext, it's been a couple of years since you started this thread. What say ye now?  Have things gotten any better for you in the UK or do you still wish you were back in Thailand? 

[Patronus]

What if a person isn't looking for prospects and simply wants to just live there?

 

Up to them - as they say in Scunthorpe.

 

you don't need a reason to justify wherever you live. Usually, personal circumstances will dictate and invariably home will be somewhere near where the heart is.

[bermondburi]

Yeh I know, there is an upside to everything, I'm sure I will settle in eventually.

Be grateful you are in your own Country now,and if you or your wife fell on extreme difficulties,you will be looked after!

Which would never happen in Thailand,once you can't pay your way in Thailand,you are lower than a Street Beggar,and will get no help,from Thailand whatsoever.
And from the Thai perspective,all they will want you to do,is get out of their Country!
And that is the key six words that,wannabe Thai,westerners,have trouble understanding,they want your money,not you
Hold your head up! you are back home! to the UK,it's your Country, even though it's sometimes less than perfect,it's better than most Countries,when it comes to looking after their Citizens,and delivering,what was promised to every generation and duly delivered, many years ago,and still is, Pensions being one,etc..............

The upside,is ..........up to your outlook on life.The downside was a lost Exotic Dream in Thailand,which was bordering on Surrealism in the first place,and of course waking up from a pleasant dream,can sometimes be painful.

Good Luck,and I hope you settle in,sooner than you think!

disagree strongly with that , you will never go hungry in Thailand !

[bermondburi]

makescents, may I pick some holes in your arguements in you recent Post?

"Immigrants pay more in taxes than the cost they burden the state with".

This line was popular during the last Labour Government and was if memory served up by the IPPR - a left leaning, think tank. Depending on the sources you wish to scrutinise, this fact does not hold water and at best the pro's and con's regarding the tax situation of immigrants runs slightly or deeper into the negative, But here we must not forget that many immigrants may be high-flyers from (Former Western colonies) working in the likes of the City or running Companies, etc. This distorts the taxation situation greatly.

There's no good economic argument against immigration; it always boils down to xenophobia and racism.

Hmm, with a country with 8.2% of the working population unemployed you do wonder? (Figure from a recent copy of The Economist). Working within the Engineering sector I've seen multiple instances of job losses or rates of pay being reduced on the threat of the introduction of cheaper, immigrant workers into the workplace. If an indigenous worker consequently loses his/her job or has to claim tax credits then it is the state which then picks up the benefit tab. Unfortunately, such practises do not improve service/product quality. But this "job loss" cost is again not factored against that of the introduction of the immigrant into the country. Read, "Nickel or Dimed" by an American author or Polly Toynbee's UK version on the ways to fleece an immigrant worker, and ergo the state, out of revenues.

This is neither xenophobia or racism* but cold, hard facts.

(*Ah, Those 2 words the readership of The Guardian seem to have indelibly inked onto their brains).

Most immigrants don't just go to the UK and sign on. They can't.

I agree but there are plenty of charities and support groups - sometimes supported by council grants, etc. - by which they can get by. And let us not forget translation services at a cost in the region of £50-75 per hour. Again such costs are not weighted against the immigrant's cost.

I used to work for the DWP and the hoops we make asylum seekers jump through is dam_n right inhuman.

Unless an Asylum seeker reached the UK directly from his/her country of persecution (highly unlikely given the nature for fleeing) then they should seek sanctuary in the first safe country they reach. (This is within the Dublin Accord after all). If that being so, why do so many trek through mainland Europe, before trying to get into the UK, It is certainly not the weather so could it be the shambolic human rights sector and later the benefit system?

--------------

However, I am fortunate and can say my area of the UK has few immigrants when compared to some and indeed this was cited as the reason why the Summer riots did not spread into my area or its surrounds. The thing which does amuse me however, are those who complain about immigrants whilst having brought a foreign wife and maybe child/children into the country if by some magic these were not immigrants themselves. This includes at least 2 close friends.

One thing is for certain, immigration is a political hot-potato for all parties. For expats it may be wothwhile keeping an eye on their "home" newspress as there maybe items which crop up that may affect their views on where they are living and the duration. (Eg. This is currently a rumour but I read it in the broadsheets and may it be announced in April 2012 : if out of the UK for a period of 6-months or more, then treatment on the NHS will be denied until a set period of "home stay" has been served within the UK - this is one to keep a good eye on).

As for the OP I would shy from putting too much emphasis on living in Thailand and Bangkok on a CV/Resume. Play on the career strengths rather than too much emphasis on location. Unfortunately, there is a stigma attached.

Moobie I think you may not be totally correct on this one about NHS treatment and duration out of the UK.
In 2009 when I was thinking about coming out to Thailand for a good proportion of the year I went to NHS HQ in Whitehall and asked what the position was if I decided to spend a fair amount of time in Thailand. I was told that if I spent 90+ days out of the UK in a calender year I would lose all NHS benefits. At this I let her have both barrels! A lifetime of taxes, born and bred and all gone in 90 days? Yes but the good news is that when you get to 65 you get most of them back. I have not had problems with going to see the local GP and getting free presciptions when I am back, nor eye tests, but you do wonder if you had to go down to the hospital dont you that there might be an envelope in the post. The goalposts are always changing and the economy has gone down since 2009 so who knows, as Moobie says keep an eye on the broadsheets for any info. I must say the new ambassador did nothing to alay these fears.

I've found they don't ask questions . I got some jabs done at a GP I've hardly visited in years last year and they never asked anything . Technically I probably should have paid . I also walked into Guy's A+E with a broken wrist and was treated with no questions . My local OKR accent probably helped though . 

[bermondburi]

The scanner at the airport will alert authorities that you left on one date and re entered on another which might be 90+ days, so the question is is the scanner sharing this information with DWP? Big brother suggests to be that it probably is, in which case the Phillipines would be a good card to play

I'm not sure what "scanner" you are referring to, but when your passport is swiped on entry to the UK it does no more than bring up your details on the IO's screen, this will show them that you are who you say you are, it's a check on your entitlement to enter the UK not a check of your travels. The most it could do, in the unlikely event of joined up government, that you entered the UK on a certain date.

As embarkation controls were abandoned some years ago this information would be worthless as there is no record of you leaving the UK.

I suppose if e-borders ever becomes fully operational then UK Nationals could be checked in and out of the UK then possibly this information could be shared with other agencies, I suspect we are a fair way off that, but it could happen.

Maybe not that far off . I could see the screen on the  computer when checking into Laos one time and all my previous visits were on there with the dates . If they can do it in Laos..........?

[bermondburi]

I've read through all of this thread now and a lot of interesting points on all sides . Personally speaking I left Thailand to move to Saudi coz I just wasn't making enough money there . Bored of the place too . It's a nice place but for me it's going to have to wait till retirement . I've got a house and land there so that's done and it's not going anywhere . 

On the other hand , I enjoy trips to the UK . I think it's great . Everyone speaks English . Yes they do , even in the dump that is SE London where I go . It might not be their 1st language but everyone does speak it . For as long as I can remember London has been full of immigrants so I don't know any different . And to be honest , many situations I've been in where I feel that I can trust black and brown people in the Uk more than whiteys . That might be the people I know though 555.

[MrHammer]

The grass is always greener on the other side. I've very much enjoyed my short trips to the UK, but then again, I really can't stand living in Copenhagen, Denmark anymore, and I am sure many tourist find it nice there.

But could it be, that one of the reasons so many people from different nations are complaining about their home countries is that they have, despite cultural differences, become very similar politically? Ever increasing nanny states, taxes, muslim immigration, government involvement in every little part of life? That makes it difficult to live the way you want to live as there is always some law, tax or pc nonsense involved in every decision.

We are not just bodies which need food and health care, we also need the choices to live like we want. To say, think and feel how we want without having to pay either currency or selfrespect to some anonymous government.

 

For me, I having been in Denmark for two years, I could simply not shake the feeling of being trapped. Just a subtle feeling that you weren't really free. Sure you could try to live as you wished but that would mean a lot of hardship and many more expenses because when you pay 50-75% of your disposable income in taxes, if you're not using government provided 'services' you have very little freedom economically. Worse though is the way big government has crept into the cultural soul. Every day in the newspaper there was a story on how someone didn't contribute enough to the government or how someone got too much or more often not enough from the government. It seemed like everyone had accepted the idea that we should all be focused on bringing in income for the government. Horrible if you ask me.

 

I can't stay in Denmark in that current sad state of ever decreasing personal freedom. If I go back to Denmark or Scandinavia as a whole, I am settling far outside in the countryside where people still talk to each other and help each other out and work without paying taxes.

[IMA_FARANG]

  Similar problem, but in the U.S.

Went back to my old "home Town: area in Western Massachusetts about a year ago.

All the factories I remember were my father used to work are closed down, building abandoned and shut.

Only people staying there are old folks, or youngsters still in school.

No real jobs available, all outsourced to India or such.

And that area is considered to be relatively "better off econmically" than many other areas.

Everybody there just trying to hang on by their figertips or leaving for anywhere they hope they can find a decent job.

It's a farming (mostly Diary farms) area, and farming families whose family  names I recognise that have been there for 3 centuries are now leaving...... they just can't can't afford to run a Diary farm anymore.

Taxes and low Milk sales profits on their farm is the main problem.

In order to sell your milk the state and federal governments insist on more and more expensive storage equipment to certify you as a milk producer, and the milk company you must sell to keeps lowering what they will pay you for your milk.

Everybody is being squeezed out so the banks can foreclose on the mortgage on their land, tear down their old farmhouses, and build new cheap houses to sell to those from the cities.

Except that the banks can't sell those properties now .... but they are still building new housing projects.

That's what the politicians call "progress" .... the rich get richer and the working class poor pay for the rich.

Anyway, once I saw what was happening, i decided never to go back to "retire" there.

Thailand is not perfect, but at least the weather is better, and so far I can still afford it here.

In my home area of the U.S. the dream of a "nice quiet and comfortable retirement home in the country" is just an old dream that dies a while ago.

I frankly believe less than half of Americans working now will ever actually be able to afford such a home when they reach retirement age .... just won't be able to afford it, at least in the U.S. then.

Edited April 26, 2013 by IMA_FARANG

[alfieconn]

 

Well just glanced over this thread and dont really know what to think, im going back to the uk in acouple of weeks,been in thailand 8 years,work not a problem can more or less walk straight in to a job, also have a bit of spare cash i want to invest so am going to buy another property in the uk to rent out.
Been looking around and for about 600,000-700,000 bht i can mortgage a property and have tenants in their paying the mortgage off,looking around in thailand i get fuck all for 600,000 bht

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 
But you ain't buying a property in England for 700,000 baht, not unless it's a shed !

Umm yep I said mortgage a property by the time I hit my retirement years the mortgage will be paid off by the tenants and the property increased in value,I know one thing for sure englands great for earning money if you have a skill or trade.

So your comparing putting a deposit down on a property in england for  600,000-700,000 baht and buying a property in Thailand for 600,000 baht ?

[taninthai]

 


Well just glanced over this thread and dont really know what to think, im going back to the uk in acouple of weeks,been in thailand 8 years,work not a problem can more or less walk straight in to a job, also have a bit of spare cash i want to invest so am going to buy another property in the uk to rent out.Been looking around and for about 600,000-700,000 bht i can mortgage a property and have tenants in their paying the mortgage off,looking around in thailand i get fuck all for 600,000 bht
Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 
But you ain't buying a property in England for 700,000 baht, not unless it's a shed !
Umm yep I said mortgage a property by the time I hit my retirement years the mortgage will be paid off by the tenants and the property increased in value,I know one thing for sure englands great for earning money if you have a skill or trade.
So your comparing putting a deposit down on a property in england for  600,000-700,000 baht and buying a property in Thailand for 600,000 baht ?

umm no as i cant buy property in thailand you cannot m ake the comparison,i am just giving an example of an investment in the uk and comparing what the same money would get you for an investment in thailand and as far as i can see there is no investment opportunity in thailad for 600-700k that is going to give me the same return as the investment in the uk.
Not saying there is no investment opportunities in thailand but to me it seems you need to invest pretty big in land and property in thailand alot more than 700k and then there is just two many risks involved for my liking, plus i dont have the capitol needed anyway and wouldnt really be to comfortable investing it in thailand even if i did have the money needed

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Edited April 26, 2013 by taninthai

[breadbin]

Op, if you dislike being back here in UK so much then puss off back to Bangkok. You made the choice so don't put down the motherland. Idiot.

[Patronus]

Op, if you dislike being back here in UK so much then puss off back to Bangkok. You made the choice so don't put down the motherland. Idiot.

Constructive post breadbin with nice insult at the end.

 

The OP was intended as a basis for discussion not for you to jump in with a one line snipe. Motherland - joke !!!

[transam]

Op, if you dislike being back here in UK so much then puss off back to Bangkok. You made the choice so don't put down the motherland. Idiot.

Why not ? 

[Lancelot]

Ref to pgthompson; oh yeh I feel you on your post 100%. I too said "alright mate" to a guy I walked past on the high street in High Wycombe and he looked at me and said "I dont F***ing know you! I was so shocked I just said guess not and walked on, 10 years ago I would have smacked him right in the mouth! but not now, I just felt sick in my stomach that I almost got in a punch up for saying hi. Something is really wrong here. People are unfriendly unhelpful, aggressive and seem to be just plain angry.

My experience with Brits is that unless you know them, they discourage random conversations

[corkythecat]

mmmmmm.....I haven't been back to UK (West London) for 40 years, I still think in LSD, Libra solidii and denari.

A 'pint' was a shilling as I recall..perhaps I should think twice, or three times before making a visit.

Not a whine, just an observation, always feel that I'm "treading on eggshells" here

Edited April 26, 2013 by corkythecat

[RefinedGentleman]

The grass is always greener on the other side. I've very much enjoyed my short trips to the UK, but then again, I really can't stand living in Copenhagen, Denmark anymore, and I am sure many tourist find it nice there.

But could it be, that one of the reasons so many people from different nations are complaining about their home countries is that they have, despite cultural differences, become very similar politically? Ever increasing nanny states, taxes, muslim immigration, government involvement in every little part of life? That makes it difficult to live the way you want to live as there is always some law, tax or pc nonsense involved in every decision.

We are not just bodies which need food and health care, we also need the choices to live like we want. To say, think and feel how we want without having to pay either currency or selfrespect to some anonymous government.

 

For me, I having been in Denmark for two years, I could simply not shake the feeling of being trapped. Just a subtle feeling that you weren't really free. Sure you could try to live as you wished but that would mean a lot of hardship and many more expenses because when you pay 50-75% of your disposable income in taxes, if you're not using government provided 'services' you have very little freedom economically. Worse though is the way big government has crept into the cultural soul. Every day in the newspaper there was a story on how someone didn't contribute enough to the government or how someone got too much or more often not enough from the government. It seemed like everyone had accepted the idea that we should all be focused on bringing in income for the government. Horrible if you ask me.

 

I can't stay in Denmark in that current sad state of ever decreasing personal freedom. If I go back to Denmark or Scandinavia as a whole, I am settling far outside in the countryside where people still talk to each other and help each other out and work without paying taxes.

 

Great post. I live in Stockholm and I feel exactly the same way. 

[Rumpole]

 

Blimey, 90 days ! I am on holiday here in Thailand for 3 months. Due to go back 6 th March. How will Big Brother know how long one has been away for? I was working in America for just over 3 months at the beginning of the year and went to the doctor's when I got back to the UK and nothing flagged up thankfully.

Your passport is a bit of a clue.
Noticed how they scan it when you go in or out of the country. I wonder where that info is stored ?

 

A relative of mine worked as an investigator in a NHS hospital questioning people about their rights to use the NHS.
She only ever questioned people with foreign accents. The front desk would flag 'customers' with funny accents for further investigation.

 

The fly in this ointment though is when the people manning the front desk have "funny accents" themselves.

[isawasnake]

I find that no matter where I am, little (or big perhaps) things annoy me. IT kind of builds up too. Here in BKK it is the heat. 

 

It is like one constantly longs for "the other one" without thinking about all the bad that will come with it. 

[Donnie Brasco]

I have read through the entire thread.

I have been coming and going back to "the old country" for over twenty years.

There are pros and cons to this but *you* have nailed the essence of what it takes to be happy or at least content in either jurisdiction.


***** You have tended to your responsibilities as a good son to your aging parent, a good husband to (I presume) your Thai wife whose happiness you have taken as a duty of care ******

You and your wife sound like good people.

The care and nurturing of an aging infirm parent is no small sacrifice but you've stepped up.
It can be exhausting and trying to do this but the satisfaction of having taken care of family will stay with you.
You and your wife don't sound like the type to whine and moan.

The expat community in Thailand will most likely welcome you back quite readily as will your Thai family to whom you have shown a devotion to your own family duties.

You'll get through this with loads positive unintended consequences as your bonus.

[Sharp]

[quote name='MrRed' timestamp='1366899299' post='6338436'][quote name="taninthai" post="6338425" timestamp="1366898848"][quote name="alfieconn" post="6338118" timestamp="1366893640"] [quote name="taninthai" post="6338040" timestamp="1366892166"] Well just glanced over this thread and dont really know what to think, im going back to the uk in acouple of weeks,been in thailand 8 years,work not a problem can more or less walk straight in to a job, also have a bit of spare cash i want to invest so am going to buy another property in the uk to rent out. [b]Been looking around and for about 600,000-700,000 bht i can mortgage a property and have tenants in their paying the mortgage off,looking around in thailand i get fuck all for 600,000 bht[/b] Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app[/quote] But you ain't buying a property in England for 700,000 baht, not unless it's a shed ![/quote]Umm yep I said mortgage a property by the time I hit my retirement years the mortgage will be paid off by the tenants and the property increased in value,I know one thing for sure englands great for earning money if you have a skill or trade.[/quote] It was.Years ago i could earn 150/200 pound a day plastering now you cannot week in week out.[/quote] Should have enough saved up then ;-) Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[maprao]

Thanin Thai I have no idea what your profession is but I doubt there is a job you can just walk into not matter how much you are in demand or it is a family business. Things are bad in the UK , EU and the US. bUT GOOD LUCK.

Edited April 27, 2013 by maprao

[taninthai]

Thanin Thai I have no idea what your profession is but I doubt there is a job you can just walk into not matter how much you are in demand or it is a family business. Things are bad in the UK , EU and the US. bUT GOOD LUCK.

to many people are just full off doom and gloom im a fully qualified electrician with a fair few contacts including contract managers of big companies that do the hiring and firing,all the electricains i know in the uk are working and i know quite a few, so its not all doom and gloom out there.
Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[corkythecat]

quote "im a fully qualified electrician"

 

There is always work for those who can do stuff which requires training, proven experience and possibly certification.

 

 

Many of the able bodied unemployed are generally unemployable nowadays, unless as an extension to a machine.

[buddy]

Makescents, single mums who I did not say were asylum seekers get £700 a month per child, so why bother working. You are the first person official or other wise to dispute that asylum seekers get when they arrive, from somewhere in the UK Government £250 a week + £100 a week each, plus free housing and who knows what else. They are the facts as I know them. The point I am trying to make is this that as an Englishman who was born and brought up in the country, paid taxes all my life, I am denied a cost of living increase on my state pension whilst some residents of the UK get a much better deal than me, most of whom were not born here and have paid little or not taxes into the exchequer, The system is not biased to the indegenous population, like Thailand is, it positivley discrimates them in favour of people who have not taken refuge in the first country they could have, they have worked their way through to the UK because of the benefits they can get, if they were truly what they claim, mainland europe would have more, they work their way through europe, sometimes I suspect with help of some countries who dont want them or the costs involved and the Uk is where they stop. The Uk also has a huge repatriation cost as well, but they can always come back for another go, its a right mess and no wonder people come here where life is more straightforward.
It really annoys me what has happened back in the UK a once great country is now a Global health and support agency for anyone who can con their way in, time to put up the full sign.

 

...or vote UKIP.

 

Thailand is for the Thais, in a comparison would the Thais put up with unelected marxists in Phnom Penh telling them how to run their own country as is what is happening now with the European Union?

 

The British Parliaments head office is in Brussels so the UK is not in control of its own destiny...very simple really. 

[buddy]

The grass is always greener on the other side. I've very much enjoyed my short trips to the UK, but then again, I really can't stand living in Copenhagen, Denmark anymore, and I am sure many tourist find it nice there.

But could it be, that one of the reasons so many people from different nations are complaining about their home countries is that they have, despite cultural differences, become very similar politically? Ever increasing nanny states, taxes, muslim immigration, government involvement in every little part of life? That makes it difficult to live the way you want to live as there is always some law, tax or pc nonsense involved in every decision.

We are not just bodies which need food and health care, we also need the choices to live like we want. To say, think and feel how we want without having to pay either currency or selfrespect to some anonymous government.

 

For me, I having been in Denmark for two years, I could simply not shake the feeling of being trapped. Just a subtle feeling that you weren't really free. Sure you could try to live as you wished but that would mean a lot of hardship and many more expenses because when you pay 50-75% of your disposable income in taxes, if you're not using government provided 'services' you have very little freedom economically. Worse though is the way big government has crept into the cultural soul. Every day in the newspaper there was a story on how someone didn't contribute enough to the government or how someone got too much or more often not enough from the government. It seemed like everyone had accepted the idea that we should all be focused on bringing in income for the government. Horrible if you ask me.

 

I can't stay in Denmark in that current sad state of ever decreasing personal freedom. If I go back to Denmark or Scandinavia as a whole, I am settling far outside in the countryside where people still talk to each other and help each other out and work without paying taxes.

 

Great post.

[daveAustin]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, folks, but along with addressing a few points, I’m interested to know where the op is at.

 

For the record, this is not meant to be a Thai-bashing post; it is a counter to some of the unfounded tripe dished out by certain UK nationals pining for a yesteryear that is long gone, but who would doubtless run back home with tail between legs should things go awry.

 

For a shorter read, go to the green bits:

 

Succinctly…

 

Those good old days were likely never really so… notice how nostalgia always makes for fuzzy days with orange hues? I also have a suspicion some detractors have seen what they wanted to see and never really gave it a chance.

 

Yes, the UK has changed, but guess what, the whole freakin’ world has. Thailand is certainly not what it was; far from it! There are now millions of immigrants here (including us ‘non’ [read: NEVER] immigrants)—not that that’s a problem of course. The cost of living has gone up dramatically, while politically, it is, for want of a better word, a complete and utter shambles. Society has taken a massive nosedive during my time—people smile a lot less and corruption and cheating are utterly endemic right across the board.

 

Of the UK, what I can say is how things must have changed in a year or two. I’ve recently returned from a trip there; first time in several years and what I saw looked pretty good to me. Economy is on the up, people have houses and money and there are lots of happy people. Perhaps suburban London is different?

 

I didn’t see any of the apparent misery some folks speak of. People on the Tube don’t smile lol. They’re heading for work for gawd’s sake; commuters on mass transit in big cities everywhere tend to have that vacant look. Observe Thai commuters next time you’re on the BTS or MRT (not the tourists, including Asian ones).

 

I was bowled over by how polite everyone is, in particular the service industry. I must’ve forgotten. It was so refreshing to be at the receiving end of genuine care and attention, to the extent it was almost uncomfortable. Even at the passport office, where I was treated with respect and professionalism. I awaited my passport with a quiet smirk on my face with visions of all those happy hours herded in Thai immigration sheds, where treatment can go from alright to outright disdain. But this is not London, so YMMV.

 

Met a number of Thais who said they would not come back here, citing incessant rising costs and the state of the place regards corruption and things in general. One lady in particular with a nice little Thai grocery store could not understand why we would want to go back there (here) to live.

 

Mates and acquaintances I haven’t seen for years all seem to be doing well, some owning two properties, driving nice motors and receiving good paychecks. The op says he was pee’d off because he couldn’t find decent work. Perhaps he would’ve seen things in a different light had he found it? Whose fault is that, the state’s or your line of work? I’ve not worked my trade in like a decade, but could go home tomorrow and walk right back into it, earning decent money, but I wouldn’t bash everything if I couldn’t.

 

Lad moved back home from Thai recently with hardly anything to his name. Had a slow start but got back into it and just got given the chance of a cracking career with a major auto maker and picked up a brand new 250k house in Middle England to boot.

 

If you have kids, this really is not the best place to be bringing them up today and am also considering heading back for little un’s remaining school years. Proper, free, education, access to decent, free, medical care and good, clean, air to breathe are all no-brainers. Work hard for a few years, get on the housing ladder and then maybe head back later as a part-timer. You see, we have that option, always, whereas most Thais do not and never will.

 

It is getting expensive here for groceries; virtually anything you pick up in a supermarket in the UK is now cheaper and of far superior quality, not to mention the choice—though perhaps London is different? Nothing is out of date, there are always genuine deals and most tills are open for the duration. Checkout girls are typically able to converse, whereas here one is often met with indifference/apathy or an awkward smile.

 

The guy who mentions £3 a pint, well -a-doodle-do! Try getting an ‘in-date’ pint of real beer in a real pub (not a street dive) in Bangkok for 150 baht. And how much was that bottle of wine? They start from £2, yep two quid folks! A bottle of Prosecco can often be had for a fiver in the supermarkets. Try finding a decent champagne alternative for 250 baht in ‘los’. Was that 2,500 or 3,000 baht!?

 

Another mentioned the expense of eating out. Was recently in a good Thai-run restaurant in the city, bill came to a shade over 100 quid. Excessive? That was for seven. Huge, clean dishes (at least double size of here), several starters and sides in the middle, two bottles of good white, soft drinks all round etc. Ok, the same class of restaurant with the same menu here could have probably had it for 3,000 baht (we’re not talking street carts chaps), but everything was served hot and on time with other diners and the food was not laden with MSG and other undesirable cack, while the place itself was spotless.

 

Cars? Don’t get me started. I could pick up a decent motor across a broad range of makes for a grand. Try getting an equivalent here for 50k baht lol. Tax is lower on smaller motors now and both insurance and the price of fuel have fallen. Unleaded was like 125p (60-odd baht); what’s it here now, 45 baht unleaded? I pay 50 for benzene, used to be 10! The quality of roads are not comparable and we still have motorways where you only have to stop when you exit or hit traffic. People are generally courteous, whereas whenever you hit the road here, your life is well and truly in their hands.

 

And guess what? I can own my own place(s), work where and when I want to and not be hassled by immigration forevermore with paperwork coming out of my ears!

 

There is virtually no small talk here between non-equals. Ever see a labourer converse with the owner of that 25 mil house he’s sweating on, or the guy delivering the water or post? It typically does not happen, and if it does it is on such a low level as to not breach that all important hierarchical boundary should they inadvertently embarrass the higher party; i.e. know your place! On that note, Thailand can seem a very lonely place indeed.

 

While it may seem all smiles, everyone friendly and all is well with the world, that is mostly by-default and if you can’t see it, or have never picked up on the remarks, I have to say you are not very perceptive.

 

Surely the consistent hassle with immigration and not actually belonging to a place gnaws away at one much? You could stay here 30 years, drop 100 million into the economy, allocate 10% of earnings to Thai charity, give endless handouts to temples etc etc, but will never, ever be accepted as equal. Rules can and do change on a whim—what happens when the requirement goes up to 1 mil for spouse extensions and 2 mil for retirees? Many of you will have to skedaddle, then? But guess what; you have the UK to fall back on, right?

 

Be sure to have a back-up or know someone when you inevitably upset the wrong dude or get screwed in a traffic accident when it wasn’t your fault. Things can go wrong real fast and you’ll find that thin veneer of Thai restraint disappear faster than you can say ‘I love Muang Thai’!

 

Someone said you can say what you want here. No, you cannot. Whisper something you perceive to be benign in the wrong context, either Thai or farang speak, and you could be looking at a lese majesty charge or accidentally upset someone who doesn’t take to you.

 

But, as I say this is not meant to be a Thai-bashing post, for despite all this, on its day, Thailand can be the best place in the world… you can’t beat the apparent ‘freedom’ here of jumping on the bike to 7-11 at all hours, heading out for a few beers any day, or to the local stall for your khao or mingling with folk. But if Thailand weren’t so sunny and perhaps had the same ‘availability’ of women as the UK, would you still be here?

 

And I am also guilty of slagging off the UK: being annoyed at where the gov/EU have taken it regards immigration and the influx of certain Europeans who have no connection but milk it till it’s teat is sore is only natural. I understand that and it is annoying that newbies often seem to get preferential treatment. It’s all PC’ness. I also agree that midweek winter evenings can make it a desperate, boring place as even when you head out for a beer there’s probably no-one to share it with.

 

But what gets me is the constant whinging concerning what people are not getting, but are averse to putting in. It was Kennedy (yes, an American) that said: ‘ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country’. Those wise words are lost on many Brits and I am also guilty of not staying on as I enjoy travel, think the weather generally sucks giant monkey balls and have family here. But I refuse to slag it off for all it’s worth because it’s not the same and am profoundly grateful that I was born there and to know I will always have the opportunity to head back if the proverbial hits the fan.

 

Asides:

 

Keep in mind that while it has undoubtedly changed (for the worse for many), there’s a big possibility that you and your perceptions have also changed, and that if somehow you returned to find what you left all those years ago, it probably still wouldn’t be right. The goalposts move for everyone, even if they haven’t.

 

I also posit it makes a big difference what you are repatriating as. If you have kid(s), there are very good reasons for going back, whereas if you’re a couple, and certainly if you’re a randy male on your tod, then much less so. :)

 

Anyway, I’ll just leave you with an observation, which is not new, but rather poignant I think; Thailand is a great holiday destination…

 

Cheers

 

Ps: I sincerely hope the op has found solace in NZ. It is indeed a beautiful place and I always found the locals friendly.

[Thainess]

  Similar problem, but in the U.S.

Went back to my old "home Town: area in Western Massachusetts about a year ago.

All the factories I remember were my father used to work are closed down, building abandoned and shut.

Only people staying there are old folks, or youngsters still in school.

 

Wow, times must be really hard in western Massachusetts these days if old folks and schoolkids are living in abandoned factories! Have they managed to rig up some kind of water or electricity supply?

[MAJIC]

@wossnext

Sorry! but nobody said you had to bring your wife back to the UK! From Settlement Visa to Citezenship it cost me a DIY with no help from Agents £3500,of course I had a moan about it,but eventually I had to come to the conclusion, nobody forced me !