Yingluck To Face Impeachment Concerning The Reissue Of Thaksin's Passport

[sparebox2]

There seems to be an impression that the government can do what they want and they are the highest power in the land. This is not the case. They still have to obay the law, then there is the democratic processes and then there are higher powers above this. Hence why its almost impossible for Taksin to return unless he admits guilt for his crimes, and then serves some time in jail. However he cannot admit guilt as his grass root supporters would desert him. That is, he would be shown to have lied to them.

An example of how the government cannot do what they want: red shirt law breakers are still being convicted and put in prison. Citizens want the law to be obayed.

Or he could be pardon / amnesty.

Remember the general Thanom? He did return to Thailand.

[astanhope]

so was it legal to issue the passport or not?

Yes - this is the question.

I despise Thaksin and I'm wholly unimpressed with his sister, but I feel that stripping him of his citizenship was excessive. Reissuing his passport to right that wrong, then, feels routine (if fraught politically).

We don't strip criminals of their citizenship in the West. Why are so many Westerners cheering this on?

[daboyz1]

No one stripped him of his citizenship. They just revoked his passport. Apples and oranges.

[astanhope]

interesting how people look at the charge of embezzlement, yet fail to remember he did more for the lower class people of thailand than anyone in recent history. the real criminals are the people who took part in and initiated the coup.

Can you please tell and explain what Khun T did for the lower class people... that was all mirrors and mist...... What Khun T did for the poor people was to make them even poorer... everything up until today has been the chain reaction from all of his actions.... he was a cheat , a liar, a thief, and a megalomaniac... He , in his own warped mind, wanted to be the Altruist King of Thailand, but found it too easy to stuff his own pockets full of cash.... other peoples cash.. Reap what you sow...!

What Thaksin did - and again, I despise the guy - is he gave a voice to a class of people that have been traditionally disenfranchised. The fact that the Red Shirt madness emerged from this "enfranchisement" is unfortunate, but doesn't diminish the importance of putting a seat for Isaan at the table.

[wxyz]

give yingluck the Nobel imPEACment Award

her brother can return to Thailand anytime he wants, just turn himself in at the nearest embassy or consulate and serve his time.

[Jingthing]

interesting how people look at the charge of embezzlement, yet fail to remember he did more for the lower class people of thailand than anyone in recent history. the real criminals are the people who took part in and initiated the coup.

Can you please tell and explain what Khun T did for the lower class people... that was all mirrors and mist...... What Khun T did for the poor people was to make them even poorer... everything up until today has been the chain reaction from all of his actions.... he was a cheat , a liar, a thief, and a megalomaniac... He , in his own warped mind, wanted to be the Altruist King of Thailand, but found it too easy to stuff his own pockets full of cash.... other peoples cash.. Reap what you sow...!

What Thaksin did - and again, I despise the guy - is he gave a voice to a class of people that have been traditionally disenfranchised. The fact that the Red Shirt madness emerged from this "enfranchisement" is unfortunate, but doesn't diminish the importance of putting a seat for Isaan at the table.

Oh please he encouraged the red shirts, he paid for the red shirts, he openly offered them rewards for military style victories. Don't paint him as a passive observer.

[astanhope]

interesting how people look at the charge of embezzlement, yet fail to remember he did more for the lower class people of thailand than anyone in recent history. the real criminals are the people who took part in and initiated the coup.

Can you please tell and explain what Khun T did for the lower class people... that was all mirrors and mist...... What Khun T did for the poor people was to make them even poorer... everything up until today has been the chain reaction from all of his actions.... he was a cheat , a liar, a thief, and a megalomaniac... He , in his own warped mind, wanted to be the Altruist King of Thailand, but found it too easy to stuff his own pockets full of cash.... other peoples cash.. Reap what you sow...!

What Thaksin did - and again, I despise the guy - is he gave a voice to a class of people that have been traditionally disenfranchised. The fact that the Red Shirt madness emerged from this "enfranchisement" is unfortunate, but doesn't diminish the importance of putting a seat for Isaan at the table.

Oh please he encouraged the red shirts, he paid for the red shirts, he openly offered them rewards for military style victories. Don't paint him as a passive observer.

I'm not - I know he was elbow deep in all of that.

That still doesn't change the fact that people from Isaan now have some skin in the game now where once they absolutely did not.

[Jingthing]

I'm not - I know he was elbow deep in all of that.

That still doesn't change the fact that people from Isaan now have some skin in the game now where once they absolutely did not.

That's cool. I agree with that. Too bad they had to get started with a leader so corrupt and destabilizing.

[OzMick]

interesting how people look at the charge of embezzlement, yet fail to remember he did more for the lower class people of thailand than anyone in recent history. the real criminals are the people who took part in and initiated the coup.

Can you please tell and explain what Khun T did for the lower class people... that was all mirrors and mist...... What Khun T did for the poor people was to make them even poorer... everything up until today has been the chain reaction from all of his actions.... he was a cheat , a liar, a thief, and a megalomaniac... He , in his own warped mind, wanted to be the Altruist King of Thailand, but found it too easy to stuff his own pockets full of cash.... other peoples cash.. Reap what you sow...!

What Thaksin did - and again, I despise the guy - is he gave a voice to a class of people that have been traditionally disenfranchised. The fact that the Red Shirt madness emerged from this "enfranchisement" is unfortunate, but doesn't diminish the importance of putting a seat for Isaan at the table.

The people of Isaan were not " traditionally disenfranchised." They always had a vote and chose to sell it to the highest bidders. Thaksin had enough money to buy the votes required, both retail and wholesale - it is cheaper to buy votes as a job lot by buying already elected MPs to merge their smaller parties and factions.

The number of smaller parties that merged with TRT was considerable - Chavalit's New Aspiration, Seritham, Chart Pattana, Palang Dharma, Sanoh's crew of mercenaries. Their leaders became DPMs or ministers in the TRT government, until TRT was videoed handing over a bucket of money to buy more votes.

Thaksin consolidated the vote of Isaan, and doing so was a hefty investment that repaid manifold.

Edited January 3, 2012 by OzMick

[astanhope]

I'm not - I know he was elbow deep in all of that.

That still doesn't change the fact that people from Isaan now have some skin in the game now where once they absolutely did not.

That's cool. I agree with that. Too bad they had to get started with a leader so corrupt and destabilizing.

How could they know?

I had a meeting with him in 1999 and I thought he was pretty awesome until the 90 day campaign to rid Thailand of amphetamines came into being.

Maybe a better question is why is it that so many who continue to support him turn a blind eye to things like the scorched earth amphetamine roundup? Or how about effectively selling Thailand's communication infrastructure to Singapore?

[astanhope]

interesting how people look at the charge of embezzlement, yet fail to remember he did more for the lower class people of thailand than anyone in recent history. the real criminals are the people who took part in and initiated the coup.

Can you please tell and explain what Khun T did for the lower class people... that was all mirrors and mist...... What Khun T did for the poor people was to make them even poorer... everything up until today has been the chain reaction from all of his actions.... he was a cheat , a liar, a thief, and a megalomaniac... He , in his own warped mind, wanted to be the Altruist King of Thailand, but found it too easy to stuff his own pockets full of cash.... other peoples cash.. Reap what you sow...!

What Thaksin did - and again, I despise the guy - is he gave a voice to a class of people that have been traditionally disenfranchised. The fact that the Red Shirt madness emerged from this "enfranchisement" is unfortunate, but doesn't diminish the importance of putting a seat for Isaan at the table.

The people of Isaan were not " traditionally disenfranchised." They always had a vote and chose to sell it to the highest bidders. Thaksin had enough money to buy the votes required, both retail and wholesale - it is cheaper to buy votes as a job lot by buying already elected MPs to merge their smaller parties and factions.

The number of smaller parties that merged with TRT was considerable - Chavalit's New Aspiration, Seritham, Chart Pattana, Palang Dharma, Sanoh's crew of mercenaries. Their leaders became DPMs or ministers in the TRT government, until TRT was videoed handing over a bucket of money to buy more votes.

Thaksin consolidated the vote of Isaan, and doing so was a hefty investment that repaid manifold.

I think you're way off base here.

Everybody's vote used to be presold and as a result, nobody cared. They'd go to the Puyai Ban and collect their 100 baht or bottle of Mekhong or whatever means the payout made it onto the street and move on with their lives. The key here is that for the most part, it didn't matter to them who got their vote. In most cases they didn't even know, and again, they never cared.

In rides Thaksin, who for better or worse really got the people in Isaan excited.

The key question is: Was/is the excitement in Isaan for Thaksin so much that he would continue to win in the complete absence of vote buying?

I think most will agree that if vote buying stopped tomorrow and an election were to be held next week, voter turnout would be significant and Thaksin's proxies would win in Isaan.

[astanhope]

Too bad they had to get started with a leader so corrupt and destabilizing.

And I agree here, absolutely.

[OzMick]

The people of Isaan were not " traditionally disenfranchised." They always had a vote and chose to sell it to the highest bidders. Thaksin had enough money to buy the votes required, both retail and wholesale - it is cheaper to buy votes as a job lot by buying already elected MPs to merge their smaller parties and factions.

The number of smaller parties that merged with TRT was considerable - Chavalit's New Aspiration, Seritham, Chart Pattana, Palang Dharma, Sanoh's crew of mercenaries. Their leaders became DPMs or ministers in the TRT government, until TRT was videoed handing over a bucket of money to buy more votes.

Thaksin consolidated the vote of Isaan, and doing so was a hefty investment that repaid manifold.

I think you're way off base here.

Everybody's vote used to be presold and as a result, nobody cared. They'd go to the Puyai Ban and collect their 100 baht or bottle of Mekhong or whatever means the payout made it onto the street and move on with their lives. The key here is that for the most part, it didn't matter to them who got their vote. In most cases they didn't even know, and again, they never cared.

In rides Thaksin, who for better or worse really got the people in Isaan excited.

The key question is: Was/is the excitement in Isaan for Thaksin so much that he would continue to win in the complete absence of vote buying?

I think most will agree that if vote buying stopped tomorrow and an election were to be held next week, voter turnout would be significant and Thaksin's proxies would win in Isaan.

Although you are entitled to believe that "if vote buying stopped tomorrow and an election were to be held next week, voter turnout would be significant and Thaksin's proxies would win in Isaan." the evidence is against you. At the last election there was plenty of anecdotal reports of cash changing hands and the uneconomic populist policies were simply another form of vote-buying using the taxpayers money.

If we are to believe that Thaksin/PTP are not fools soon parted with their money, why has this government had a crackdown on vote-buying? Do they have any anti-corruption policies, electoral or otherwise, hypocritical as they may be?

They have made Isaan fairly safe as far as Democrat vote-buying is concerned. Through lies, smears, innuendo, propaganda and intimidation they have made it unsafe for them to campaign in the area.

[whybother]

so was it legal to issue the passport or not?

Yes - this is the question.

I despise Thaksin and I'm wholly unimpressed with his sister, but I feel that stripping him of his citizenship was excessive. Reissuing his passport to right that wrong, then, feels routine (if fraught politically).

We don't strip criminals of their citizenship in the West. Why are so many Westerners cheering this on?

Who was stripped of their citizenship?

[softgeorge]

There are a lot of former Prime Ministers and political power brokers on here or is just the impression they are giving?

[rixalex]

so was it legal to issue the passport or not?

Yes - this is the question.

I despise Thaksin and I'm wholly unimpressed with his sister, but I feel that stripping him of his citizenship was excessive. Reissuing his passport to right that wrong, then, feels routine (if fraught politically).

We don't strip criminals of their citizenship in the West. Why are so many Westerners cheering this on?

From your posts that followed this one, you show yourself to be well informed. Makes the post above, even the more baffling. Where on earth did you get the impression that anyone had been stripped of citizenship in all this?

There are millions of Thais who have never in their lives held passports. Are all these people without citizenship?

[scorecard]

interesting how people look at the charge of embezzlement, yet fail to remember he did more for the lower class people of thailand than anyone in recent history. the real criminals are the people who took part in and initiated the coup.

Can you please tell and explain what Khun T did for the lower class people... that was all mirrors and mist...... What Khun T did for the poor people was to make them even poorer... everything up until today has been the chain reaction from all of his actions.... he was a cheat , a liar, a thief, and a megalomaniac... He , in his own warped mind, wanted to be the Altruist King of Thailand, but found it too easy to stuff his own pockets full of cash.... other peoples cash.. Reap what you sow...!

What Thaksin did - and again, I despise the guy - is he gave a voice to a class of people that have been traditionally disenfranchised. The fact that the Red Shirt madness emerged from this "enfranchisement" is unfortunate, but doesn't diminish the importance of putting a seat for Isaan at the table.

Sorry but I will never agree that thaksin "....gave a voice to a class of people that have been traditionally disenfranchised".

He bought their votes, nothing more and nothing less.

Ask a whole gaggle of the "class of people......." you mention to explain democracy, etc.

Unfortunately, very unfortunately I believe you will find very very few who can even begin to answer your question let alone speak with clarity and insight about what democracy means, how to build it, how to protect it, etc.

And by the way, yes there is a very large gap between the rich and the poor in this wonderful country, and what has thaksin or his several puppets done that would eventually bring a situation whereby a much larger percentage of the population could have a good quality of life through their own productivity?

Absolutely nothing!

Edited January 4, 2012 by scorecard

[ttelise]

ttelise>> You might look into quoting the post you are replying to if it isn't right before yours, since now it just doesn't make sense.

So you think everything was cherry before 2006 and now live in Bali. Good for you.

Tried, but kept saying end quote or something not match. Not live in Bali. Live in US. Just spend maybe three months out of year in Bali and go when an epic swell is rolling through. Thailand seems to attract the more undesirables now and individuals with more to lose go and spend their money elsewhere. My wife is Russian and her Russian friends still go to Thailand so athailand can still attract Russians and people from countries that are very chaotic and dangerous. Most of my US friends that used to spend time in Thailand now either spend less time there or simply go to other countries now. I would venture to say that the Thai economy is being mangled by the mentality you endorse perhaps more than some care to acknowledge. I guess this happens when people are ruled more by their emotion than common sense.

Strange that many Australians (NOT a chaotic and/or dangerous country, especially compared to the US) are changing their holiday destination from Bali to Thailand. Perhaps it has something to do with the relative strength of their currencies?

When you discuss the "mangling" of the Thai economy, it would be good to remember the source of the damage to it and most other world economies.

Haha, seems like Aussies are always the ones fighting in Thailand. Not chaotic at all. I agree about other factors, but truth is the "protest" and closing of airports is still fresh in the minds if people. Can blame flood, world economy or whatever. Can even blame prophecies about bursting dams. Whatever, Americans don't really care about floods or prophecies of old men. Being stranded, ripped off, or stuck in violent situations is huge deterrence. Thailand is cheap enough to be thriving in any economy if not for political issues.

Cannot believe I care enough to post. I do find the political mess interesting and, as one not mired in the problem, seems so easy to identify problem and the solution. Those mired in the problem are usually blinded by the problem and oblivious to the solution.

Cool, let them impeach Yingluck and grab the popcorn. Will be a wild ride and lots more farangs looking for new destinations. Haha, I think Bali is busy enough, however, so I hope Thailand can get it together.

[Skywalker69]

interesting how people look at the charge of embezzlement, yet fail to remember he did more for the lower class people of thailand than anyone in recent history. the real criminals are the people who took part in and initiated the coup.

Can you please tell and explain what Khun T did for the lower class people... that was all mirrors and mist...... What Khun T did for the poor people was to make them even poorer... everything up until today has been the chain reaction from all of his actions.... he was a cheat , a liar, a thief, and a megalomaniac... He , in his own warped mind, wanted to be the Altruist King of Thailand, but found it too easy to stuff his own pockets full of cash.... other peoples cash.. Reap what you sow...!

What Thaksin did - and again, I despise the guy - is he gave a voice to a class of people that have been traditionally disenfranchised. The fact that the Red Shirt madness emerged from this "enfranchisement" is unfortunate, but doesn't diminish the importance of putting a seat for Isaan at the table.

Oh please he encouraged the red shirts, he paid for the red shirts, he openly offered them rewards for military style victories. Don't paint him as a passive observer.

Exactily. Recall all his call ins via video links to fire upp his Red Shirt "cult" members.

[phiphidon]

interesting how people look at the charge of embezzlement, yet fail to remember he did more for the lower class people of thailand than anyone in recent history. the real criminals are the people who took part in and initiated the coup.

Can you please tell and explain what Khun T did for the lower class people... that was all mirrors and mist...... What Khun T did for the poor people was to make them even poorer... everything up until today has been the chain reaction from all of his actions.... he was a cheat , a liar, a thief, and a megalomaniac... He , in his own warped mind, wanted to be the Altruist King of Thailand, but found it too easy to stuff his own pockets full of cash.... other peoples cash.. Reap what you sow...!

What Thaksin did - and again, I despise the guy - is he gave a voice to a class of people that have been traditionally disenfranchised. The fact that the Red Shirt madness emerged from this "enfranchisement" is unfortunate, but doesn't diminish the importance of putting a seat for Isaan at the table.

Sorry but I will never agree that thaksin "....gave a voice to a class of people that have been traditionally disenfranchised".

He bought their votes, nothing more and nothing less.

Ask a whole gaggle of the "class of people......." you mention to explain democracy, etc.

Unfortunately, very unfortunately I believe you will find very very few who can even begin to answer your question let alone speak with clarity and insight about what democracy means, how to build it, how to protect it, etc.

And by the way, yes there is a very large gap between the rich and the poor in this wonderful country, and what has thaksin or his several puppets done that would eventually bring a situation whereby a much larger percentage of the population could have a good quality of life through their own productivity?

Absolutely nothing!

At the risk of this thread turning into a Pythonesque "Name me one thing........" I'll start. OTOP.