WarpSpeed Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) 8 Championships in the most demanding, intense and highly skilled form of driving, car durability and car control with the highest level of competition in both cars and drivers on 3 different types of surfaces. Had he not been required to back off in his rookie season to allow his teammate Petter Solberg the championship by a staunch 1 point he would have 9 and that's one for EVERY season he has run including his rookie season, that's unmatched by ANYONE in racing history! This year he also weathered a political storm within his own team and maintained his poise and focus under pressure that would've crumpled lesser characters to further establish his position as the top player and I have nothing but personal admiration and respect for his accomplishments. If there is ANY driver I'd consider on a level apart as a stand out based merely on talent, it's him.. Well done Sebastian, keep us wanting more, don't lose your drive, I think you're good for at least a couple more at minimum and looking forward to rooting you on to those Championships in the future against even stronger competition and teams. He's proven time and again he's not just another handsome face . Ermmm..... Did I just say that?? Edited December 30, 2011 by WarpSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandrinstar Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 As the Regs are today, yes he is the best. All i can add is i wonder how he would have compared against the Drivers of the Group 4 Lancia Stratos /RS 200/ Quatro Drivers with 600BHP to fight with.. Mikkola still remains my Fav overall with Roger Porkie Clark and many more Eighties Pilots. The list could go on forever. I Just Love the Sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Well thanks for at least one response. I think his talent would apply in any case as he has also competed in the Lemans 24 hrs. in sports cars and he is every bit as fast and consistent. He seems to be able to take on any car and any challenge virtually on a moments notice and adjust accordingly and be at or near the front and he does it without breaking a sweat no matter what the challenge.. The current regs actually make it more difficult ala F1 as they are designed to legislate the equipment to keep it more driver competitive and that's where he shines just like current F1 champ Vettel and unlike say Schumacher for example who had everything his way due to Ferrari's massive budget and special consideration from suppliers such as tire and fuel suppliers of the time.. It's a tougher task to win even once these days let alone concurrently like he has, just ask those past champions who have been trying to unseat him ever since and including his own team mate/mates of the past in equal equipment.. Edited December 31, 2011 by WarpSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandrinstar Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Sorry i misread. Best Driver in History he certainly isnt. I Replied as if we were talking Plot n Bash. Now ill wander about thinking who is apart from KBB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdenner Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 How can one categorize "the best driver in history"? Shlt I could fall into that calculation with 11 years of driving in Thailand having nothing more than a few scratches on my car caused by wayward motorcyclists. That said, talented, he most certainly is and extremely hard to beat in his form of the sport. I much prefer to watch WRC then the Australian V8s and some European racing before NASCAR, the Vettel/F1 circus and most definitely boring IndyCar. Lets not forget MotoGP. There's a load of talent and guts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 How can one categorize "the best driver in history"? Shlt I could fall into that calculation with 11 years of driving in Thailand having nothing more than a few scratches on my car caused by wayward motorcyclists. That said, talented, he most certainly is and extremely hard to beat in his form of the sport. I much prefer to watch WRC then the Australian V8s and some European racing before NASCAR, the Vettel/F1 circus and most definitely boring IndyCar. Lets not forget MotoGP. There's a load of talent and guts! +1, there are many that have their day, think that goes for any sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandrinstar Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Much skill has been removed by Micro Chips. So its impossible. .Jim Clark was pre "Monkey Can Do " Era perhaps. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Much skill has been removed by Micro Chips. So its impossible. .Jim Clark was pre "Monkey Can Do " Era perhaps. . Remember the days when there was no computor and clutch and gear shift was part of driving. For me that is skill, 100% skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 How can one categorize "the best driver in history"? Shlt I could fall into that calculation with 11 years of driving in Thailand having nothing more than a few scratches on my car caused by wayward motorcyclists. That said, talented, he most certainly is and extremely hard to beat in his form of the sport. I much prefer to watch WRC then the Australian V8s and some European racing before NASCAR, the Vettel/F1 circus and most definitely boring IndyCar. Lets not forget MotoGP. There's a load of talent and guts! Well it's encouraging to see you figured out I was talking about Motorsports and not riding your Wave to the 7-11 but I dare say he'd likely out do you in that as well.. But moto GP does not offer the same need for vehicle control as ANY form of automobile racing it offers far more room for passing, mistakes and recovery, but having said that nothing taken away from them in their form of racing but seldom does a 2 wheeler make any progress in anything on 4 wheels.Yeah, yeah I know 2 wheels versus 4 and all that but there are other things like weight transfer and the like that make driving auto's quickly much more difficult and even Rossi said as much after his fun drive in a Ferrari. What makes motorcycle racing more difficult is the shear lunacy of it and how far one can push themselves knowing their virtual destruction lies potentially around the next corner.. JFYI as the OP says he's not just good in his "form" of the sport either as he's won in Sports cars and the World Championships too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Much skill has been removed by Micro Chips. So its impossible. .Jim Clark was pre "Monkey Can Do " Era perhaps. . Remember the days when there was no computor and clutch and gear shift was part of driving. For me that is skill, 100% skill. Says the guy that touts the DSG over a true manual . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandrinstar Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Yo Ho, one point to The Warp, he does favour a Disabled Person Sticker , on the Tailgate." AUTO". Or perhaps he cant remember in what corner those Round Things are hiding. Then again, perhaps he just sits in Gridlocks to justify the sludgey things.. .Not saying that Automatics are useless ,but the rides fitted with a good ZF or similar are expensive..I can never get the Bouce Back right off the front suspension dip to execute a quick and neat parking reverse, like with a Manual .Those ditherers that take ages to find auto reverse , get on my tits. Like My WIFE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Much skill has been removed by Micro Chips. So its impossible. .Jim Clark was pre "Monkey Can Do " Era perhaps. . Remember the days when there was no computor and clutch and gear shift was part of driving. For me that is skill, 100% skill. Says the guy that touts the DSG over a true manual . My point was, when race drivers had to do everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Much skill has been removed by Micro Chips. So its impossible. .Jim Clark was pre "Monkey Can Do " Era perhaps. . Remember the days when there was no computor and clutch and gear shift was part of driving. For me that is skill, 100% skill. Says the guy that touts the DSG over a true manual . My point was, when race drivers had to do everything. Like Stirling Moss you mean and Cliffers had to do everything as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandrinstar Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Well, its all rather pointless, as i said earlier. KBB is the finest. He tells us everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) Remember the days when there was no computor and clutch and gear shift was part of driving. For me that is skill, 100% skill. Says the guy that touts the DSG over a true manual . My point was, when race drivers had to do everything. Like Stirling Moss you mean and Cliffers had to do everything as well. Actually they had far less to do then as well so it didn't require nearly as much analytical thought or feel to make adjustments on the fly they just had to drive whatever they had, made it much easier to do.. ^^^ I knew you'd find some way to tap dance out of it, its as predictable as the sun rise, though I understood what you meant it still contradicts your big argument for the technology in previous threads. There's no doubt technology has made SOME things easier but also has complicated even more things requiring more knowledge and on the fly analytical thought on the drivers part in an age when the top speeds have also climbed and shortened that time for those decisions to be made due to the very same technology. That's in spite of smaller engine'd lower Hp cars, they finally realized Hp was not the be all end all to going fast when to comes to corners too as Enzo Ferrari used to think. The cars of today would have little to no issues dealing with the same amount of Hp as past years and neither would the drivers due to the technology available they'd only go scary faster and too many competitors and spectators would get injured or die, but suffice to say not likely the other way around. Edited January 1, 2012 by WarpSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 Yo Ho, another point to The Warp, Fixed that for yer....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Like Stirling Moss you mean and Cliffers had to do everything as well. Actually they had far less to do then as well so it didn't require nearly as much analytical thought or feel to make adjustments on the fly they just had to drive whatever they had, made it much easier to do.. ^^^ I knew you'd find some way to tap dance out of it, its as predictable as the sun rise, though I understood what you meant it still contradicts your big argument for the technology in previous threads. There's no doubt technology has made SOME things easier but also has complicated even more things requiring more knowledge and on the fly analytical thought on the drivers part in an age when the top speeds have also climbed and shortened that time for those decisions to be made due to the very same technology. That's in spite of smaller engine'd lower Hp cars, they finally realized Hp was not the be all end all to going fast when to comes to corners too as Enzo Ferrari used to think. The cars of today would have little to no issues dealing with the same amount of Hp as past years and neither would the drivers due to the technology available they'd only go scary faster and too many competitors and spectators would get injured or die, but suffice to say not likely the other way around. Even with all the technology of today racing is still down the individual having an exceptional skill. I respect your passion for the sport, I was interacting with trans and jumping in with a bit of humour. I've heard of the guy but have no idea about rally driving or qualify on how to comment on it, as motor racing goes Michael Schumacher in F1 would be my choice, I guess there more like pilots these days instead of drivers. I'll stick with my MotoGP but even that has changed a lot. Edited January 2, 2012 by Kwasaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Like Stirling Moss you mean and Cliffers had to do everything as well. Actually they had far less to do then as well so it didn't require nearly as much analytical thought or feel to make adjustments on the fly they just had to drive whatever they had, made it much easier to do.. ^^^ I knew you'd find some way to tap dance out of it, its as predictable as the sun rise, though I understood what you meant it still contradicts your big argument for the technology in previous threads. There's no doubt technology has made SOME things easier but also has complicated even more things requiring more knowledge and on the fly analytical thought on the drivers part in an age when the top speeds have also climbed and shortened that time for those decisions to be made due to the very same technology. That's in spite of smaller engine'd lower Hp cars, they finally realized Hp was not the be all end all to going fast when to comes to corners too as Enzo Ferrari used to think. The cars of today would have little to no issues dealing with the same amount of Hp as past years and neither would the drivers due to the technology available they'd only go scary faster and too many competitors and spectators would get injured or die, but suffice to say not likely the other way around. Even with all the technology of today racing is still down the individual having an exceptional skill. I respect your passion for the sport, I was interacting with trans and jumping in with a bit of humour. I've heard of the guy but have no idea about rally driving or qualify on how to comment on it, as motor racing goes Michael Schumacher in F1 would be my choice, I guess there more like pilots these days instead of drivers. I'll stick with my MotoGP but even that has changed a lot. You better explain ''humour'' just for Warpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Like Stirling Moss you mean and Cliffers had to do everything as well. Actually they had far less to do then as well so it didn't require nearly as much analytical thought or feel to make adjustments on the fly they just had to drive whatever they had, made it much easier to do.. ^^^ I knew you'd find some way to tap dance out of it, its as predictable as the sun rise, though I understood what you meant it still contradicts your big argument for the technology in previous threads. There's no doubt technology has made SOME things easier but also has complicated even more things requiring more knowledge and on the fly analytical thought on the drivers part in an age when the top speeds have also climbed and shortened that time for those decisions to be made due to the very same technology. That's in spite of smaller engine'd lower Hp cars, they finally realized Hp was not the be all end all to going fast when to comes to corners too as Enzo Ferrari used to think. The cars of today would have little to no issues dealing with the same amount of Hp as past years and neither would the drivers due to the technology available they'd only go scary faster and too many competitors and spectators would get injured or die, but suffice to say not likely the other way around. Even with all the technology of today racing is still down the individual having an exceptional skill. I respect your passion for the sport, I was interacting with trans and jumping in with a bit of humour. I've heard of the guy but have no idea about rally driving or qualify on how to comment on it, as motor racing goes Michael Schumacher in F1 would be my choice, I guess there more like pilots these days instead of drivers. I'll stick with my MotoGP but even that has changed a lot. You better explain ''humour'' just for Warpy. If you only knew how foolish such a post really was, it displays just how little you really understand about "humor" yourself......No need to explain Warpy isn't British so understands "humor" very well in a "humorous" context.. Just more sophisticated about it then the average 'Lionel' and recognizes real "humor" not the French kind of "humour" .. Wait why does my spell check tell me that "humour" isn't correct? Anyway to Kawasaki, so you don't know Sebastien Leob eh? Well he beat Shumie and several other top drivers in the International Race of Championship in Europe a few times but he's also won in several other types of sports cars outside of his own series of WRC. They run on all types of surfaces, (gravel, snow, dirt and pavement) and conditions (rain, mud, water hazards, and as mentioned snow) and it takes both massive car control and the ability to read the conditions, set up the car and make personal adjustments as the day goes on and the track surface is constantly changing with minimal stage review unlike other forms that allow for plenty of practice and set up time. I've never been much of rally fan in the past but Seb as he's known is a real talent and anyone who has driven a car at speed has to admire, appreciate and respect what he's been able to accomplish under strict competition and rules that have not allowed for much outspending over other teams. He has also adapted through several years of those rules changes and hardly skipped a beat, no team nor driver combination has done that so seamlessly in motorsports history. He stands head and shoulders above both current and past drivers in that respect.. JFYI "Driver" refers to automobile so this thread does not really apply to motoGp guys.. You're right though they are more like pilots these days and I was going to use that terminology but didn't want to overstate the term. Edited January 2, 2012 by WarpSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandrinstar Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Kawasaki wouldnt know Sabastian Leob from a firkin Ear Lobe. As for Bikers Racers they keep Auto Boxes where they belong, on Pussy Ride Clics, and ware Kevlar Socks in Bed. Me, ill remain a Scan Fan,they are weaned on Forest tracks,Ice ,Snow,Poor Vis, like me in Wales ,.Wales is Like Phuket, always pissing down when you visit ,shitty roads ,and Pig Shit thick drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lickey Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Has Loeb tried Moto GP? Rossi has had a dab at rally cars, in Monza, he made a helluva lot of x-champions look a bit mundane, coming 2nd to Loeb after 3 days, report here,, http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2011/valentino-rossi-second-in-monza-rally-show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Has Loeb tried Moto GP? Rossi has had a dab at rally cars, in Monza, he made a helluva lot of x-champions look a bit mundane, coming 2nd to Loeb after 3 days, report here,, http://www.ultimatem...onza-rally-show As mentioned moto GP is not an automotive sport it's motorcycles so they're not drivers they're riders.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyaussie Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 In the modern era of motor racing I agree, Loeb is the best. In my opinion Rally driving is by far the most demanding and technical forms of racing. Love him or hate him, Schumacher must also be high on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Let us not forget that Loeb owes some of his success to Daniel Elena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Has Loeb tried Moto GP? Rossi has had a dab at rally cars, in Monza, he made a helluva lot of x-champions look a bit mundane, coming 2nd to Loeb after 3 days, report here,, http://www.ultimatem...onza-rally-show As mentioned moto GP is not an automotive sport it's motorcycles so they're not drivers they're riders.. Thanks for that " Lickey " I knew VR did a bit of driving in rally but I didn't know he was doing that well. I guess when he finishes MotoGP he will continue in Rallying, wearing Kevler socks no doubt WS. What you say " Warby " do think VR will be too old, how old are some of the rally drivers still at it. Yes you are right about drive automobile I still cringe when someone says " I drive my motorbike ". Edited January 4, 2012 by Kwasaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 My own all time great is John Surtees. Won l think 3 world championships in F1 and one 500cc bike world championship. Only man to do it on 2 and 4 wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lickey Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 So Loeb is the greatest rally driver in modern history, so why doent he do the greatest rally in history, Paris-Dakar, or its now equiviliant in South America? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Has Loeb tried Moto GP? Rossi has had a dab at rally cars, in Monza, he made a helluva lot of x-champions look a bit mundane, coming 2nd to Loeb after 3 days, report here,, http://www.ultimatem...onza-rally-show As mentioned moto GP is not an automotive sport it's motorcycles so they're not drivers they're riders.. Thanks for that " Lickey " I knew VR did a bit of driving in rally but I didn't know he was doing that well. I guess when he finishes MotoGP he will continue in Rallying, wearing Kevler socks no doubt WS. What you say " Warby " do think VR will be too old, how old are some of the rally drivers still at it. Yes you are right about drive automobile I still cringe when someone says " I drive my motorbike ". Yes I think given the growth series these days that cultivate the young drivers his expiration date has since passed there is just waaay too much for him to learn in short order and the technology is leaving him behind every year he's not included... He needed to start years ago and even with that he'd still struggle. Have a look at Kimi Raikonen who returned to rallying after his F1 career and has found it tough going to the point of dropping out of that too and he has more past rallying experience then does Rossi.. ^^^VN There is no doubt Elena is an integral part of his success as is the case of all teams of Championship caliber but he could also be with many other drivers out there and the result would not be as consistent nor as accomplished as with Loeb it's like having a first rate striker and or goal keeper in football the confidence they inspire raises the entire teams level of play. Finally, rallying is not gentle on older, battered bodies which Rossi will have by the time he decides to hang it up and if he goes for rallying.. Edited January 5, 2012 by WarpSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) So Loeb is the greatest rally driver in modern history, so why doent he do the greatest rally in history, Paris-Dakar, or its now equiviliant in South America? Far different kettle of fish and the types of rallies he does do are a far greater measure of a single drivers talent then is that race where far more equipment failures and potential navigational foul ups factor in the result then does the drivers actual talent.. Another mitigating factor is that his contract likely restricts him from that race anyways due to his commitment to both Citroen and the WRC season, that is a very taxing race that takes months of planning and practice for and his season is already maxed out, doesn't mean he wouldn't fare very well if he did run it, I'm sure he would. Would you think the talent he has would suddenly fall off for some reason?? It is what it is and what he does best, in terms of pure driving, he'd match up with anybody.. Edited January 5, 2012 by WarpSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lickey Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Has Loeb tried Moto GP? Rossi has had a dab at rally cars, in Monza, he made a helluva lot of x-champions look a bit mundane, coming 2nd to Loeb after 3 days, report here,, http://www.ultimatem...onza-rally-show As mentioned moto GP is not an automotive sport it's motorcycles so they're not drivers they're riders.. Well, looking at the pictures and reading the report, pretty sure Rossi was Driving a Ford, and he won 2 stages of the 5, didnt you read this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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