Another Near Miss @ Samui Airport

[Leckyman]

I don't think a mechanical problem on an aircraft can be described as 'trivial'. A lot of lives at stake there.

Anyway, i was at Bangkok airport on new years eve waiting for a flight back here & all flights were delayed from between 1-3 hours with 2 flights being cancelled. So i would say that this incident did take place.

[starcandle]

Had you read my post properly, you would have read that he NEVER got on the ATR, he went into Bangrak on the beer and has decided not to bother with his trip to BKK

This is slightly off-topic, but who would book a flight and then not take it? I would be surprised if Bangkok Airways refunded his money for something as trivial as a mechanical problem on an aircraft and being assigned to go on the next flight. The plane taxis on the runway, then does not take off and your friend runs to get drunk, giving up his entire holiday plans? Kind of girly-manish if you ask me. Or he made the whole thing up.

OH dear ! yet another one that does not read posts properly, who said anything about holidays ? and why would you assume that he actually cares about getting a refund ?

as it happens he was one of only 2 passangers in business class, the ATR has no business class. He lives between here and BKK hence the lack of urgency in travelling

[BookMan]

Had you read my post properly, you would have read that he NEVER got on the ATR, he went into Bangrak on the beer and has decided not to bother with his trip to BKK

This is slightly off-topic, but who would book a flight and then not take it? I would be surprised if Bangkok Airways refunded his money for something as trivial as a mechanical problem on an aircraft and being assigned to go on the next flight. The plane taxis on the runway, then does not take off and your friend runs to get drunk, giving up his entire holiday plans? Kind of girly-manish if you ask me. Or he made the whole thing up.

I would think a large proportion of aircraft crashes are the result of mechanical problems!

[limbos]

I don't think a mechanical problem on an aircraft can be described as 'trivial'. A lot of lives at stake there.

Anyway, i was at Bangkok airport on new years eve waiting for a flight back here & all flights were delayed from between 1-3 hours with 2 flights being cancelled. So i would say that this incident did take place.

I don't think anybody disputes the fact that it actually happened.

[stiggy]

Aborted take offs and landings are pretty common, experienced several my self one of each at Samui airport ( weather normally a Factor on landings).Prefer a sound cautionary decision by a trained pilot over a gung-ho one anyway.

Certainly gets the non frequent flyers screaming however when it happens.

INMHO no big deal probaly a flashing light in the cockpit or pilot forgot his somtam

[spindle]

I don't think a mechanical problem on an aircraft can be described as 'trivial'. A lot of lives at stake there.

Anyway, i was at Bangkok airport on new years eve waiting for a flight back here & all flights were delayed from between 1-3 hours with 2 flights being cancelled. So i would say that this incident did take place.

I don't think anybody disputes the fact that it actually happened.

What a drama! After the handling pilot decided to abandon the take off the brakes would need some time to cool down

and the heat plugs on the tires checked and the fan blade examined so there would be a delay.. Seems much ado about very little.

[Exsexyman]

Was he able to have another go - would have thought they would need to change the tyres first????

Not to mention his underpants!

[Tywais]

I would think a large proportion of aircraft crashes are the result of mechanical problems!

'It is estimated that approximately 22 percent of aviation accidents are caused by mechanical failures.'

50% in total are considered pilot error. So mechanical is 2nd to pilot error in all accident classes.

Aviation Mechanical Failures

Accident Statistics

[Jdietz]

They probably called the pilot back at the last moment because of light load and a last minute cancellation on the next flight...

Edited January 2, 2012 by Jdietz

[marstons]

i am sure these posts will be boosting the tourist industry tremebously. must have beeen a tight squeeze there if an airbus was at rotate speed to stop it before the end of the runway.

if in reverse thrust the stones would have thought caused some damage to the aircraft.

suprising during high season the people on a air bus would all fit onto an already scheduled and smaller ATR. lucky escape

The plane was half empty.

in which case the ATR must have been nearly empty to take on a half a load of an air bus. Presumably your friend has left and you called him to check if the air bus was half empty???

once a plane has started to lift as your post sugggests its past the point of no return, the pilot has called rotatae to lift so its a case of take off do circuit and return. complete B/S from start to finish IMHO. prone to exageration beyond beleif.

Had you read my post properly, you would have read that he NEVER got on the ATR, he went into Bangrak on the beer and has decided not to bother with his trip to BKK

read it correctly, i never mentioned he got on the ATR but the fact the airbus was half empty, dont see any mention of him calling the trip off just a mention of him having enough for 1 day. maybe you can point me in the direction of where i indicated he went on the ATR. result of such a story being true would be 2 engines requiring over haul if they were pouring smoke out, gravel and dust when engines still taking in air, set of new tyres, and reversing an aircraft engine well that i would like to see, Reverse thrust is the term you are maybe looking for. apart from OP meeting witness's on board and at the end of the runway has anybody else heard about it?. aborted takes do not happen after the plane has started to lift off, its past the point of no return no matter what, a go around would have to be completed. example here of what your friend described and what happens.

edit: still cant beleive i read the engines banged into reverse

Edited January 2, 2012 by marstons

[insertmembernamehere]

Spindle:

What a drama! After the handling pilot decided to abandon the take off the brakes would need some time to cool down

and the heat plugs on the tires checked and the fan blade examined so there would be a delay.. Seems much ado about very little.

Thank you; thus my point.

Stiggy:

Aborted take offs and landings are pretty common...

Thank you; thus my point.

[Tywais]

An interesting study on RTOs (Rejected Take Offs aka abort):

"Each takeoff includes the possibility that the pilot needs to stop the aircraft and

reject the takeoff. Analysis of pilot reported rejected takeoffs occurrences

showed that the rejected takeoff manoeuvre occurs approximately once in every

1800 takeoffs (source: NLR-ATSI). With this rate a pilot who flies primarily longhaul

routes, may be faced on average with a rejected takeoff only once in 25

years. In contrast, a pilot on a regional jet may face a rejected takeoff every 4

years on average. The pilots in each of these fleets must be prepared to make an

RTO decision during every takeoff. Even to the regional pilots it will not be a

common thing to do other than in the simulator. Analysis of pilot reported

rejected takeoffs occurrences showed that about 56% of the rejected takeoffs

occurred at speeds lower than 60 kt. and almost 90% below 100 kt."

IATA Report .pdf > http://www.iata.org/iata/RERR-toolkit/assets/Content/Contributing%20Reports/NLR_Rejected_takeoff_after_V1.pdf

Another RTO article > When Go becomes No

[koheesti]

How many other near misses have there been at Samui airport and can you relate those (if documented) near misses to an average of near misses at other airports around the world with a similar size and activity to USM? That would be much appreciated.

I second this. Please include weather conditions, time of day and experience/sobriety of the crew.

[cupcake]

i am sure these posts will be boosting the tourist industry tremebously. must have beeen a tight squeeze there if an airbus was at rotate speed to stop it before the end of the runway.

if in reverse thrust the stones would have thought caused some damage to the aircraft.

suprising during high season the people on a air bus would all fit onto an already scheduled and smaller ATR. lucky escape

Am I to believe from your post that you have more concern for tourism rather than peoples saftey ?

I'm sure to " boost the tourist industry tremebously" saftey comes first.

And your right, I agree with you, I'm suprised also that during high season all the flights LEAVING Samui where not packed !

Edited January 3, 2012 by cupcake

[badwig]

i am sure these posts will be boosting the tourist industry tremebously. must have beeen a tight squeeze there if an airbus was at rotate speed to stop it before the end of the runway.

if in reverse thrust the stones would have thought caused some damage to the aircraft.

suprising during high season the people on a air bus would all fit onto an already scheduled and smaller ATR. lucky escape

Am I to believe from your post that you have more concern for tourism rather than peoples saftey ?

I'm sure to " boost the tourist industry tremebously" saftey comes first.

And your right, I agree with you, I'm suprised also that during high season all the flights LEAVING Samui where not packed !

This thread is a buzz and I now know that yesterday I did not stick my motor in reverse and park at Tesco, what I actually did was, selected the reversing gear motioned the motor vehicle in a backwards direction into a selected area, utilised for retaining my said vehicle until my retail therapy had expired. BRILLIANT keep it up.

[cupcake]

i am sure these posts will be boosting the tourist industry tremebously. must have beeen a tight squeeze there if an airbus was at rotate speed to stop it before the end of the runway.

if in reverse thrust the stones would have thought caused some damage to the aircraft.

suprising during high season the people on a air bus would all fit onto an already scheduled and smaller ATR. lucky escape

Am I to believe from your post that you have more concern for tourism rather than peoples safety ?

I'm sure to " boost the tourist industry tremebously" saftey comes first.

And your right, I agree with you, I'm surprised also that during high season all the flights LEAVING Samui were not packed !

[BookMan]

I would think a large proportion of aircraft crashes are the result of mechanical problems!

'It is estimated that approximately 22 percent of aviation accidents are caused by mechanical failures.'

50% in total are considered pilot error. So mechanical is 2nd to pilot error in all accident classes.

Aviation Mechanical Failures

Accident Statistics

Thanks for those. As you agree, the mechanical is quite high indeed: perhaps even a little higher than what you quoted

The 2000's, which seem most relevant, read as

:

Mechanical at 28% + Pilot Error (mechanical related) 3% = 31% mechanical error in total.

[Samuian]

So far so good, whats all the huffin' 'n puffin' about, if I may ask, just about an abondoned take off, after all ONLY for the pessengers safety?

Maybe, maybe there was a late detected malfunction, a screaming warning sound, lamp, indicator, somethin', luckily its still up to the pilot to abandon take off on what ever reason and to do so, he/she must have a dam_n good reason.... all else is just like shouting in a cotton bag!

Edited January 4, 2012 by Samuian

[spindle]

So far so good, whats all the huffin' 'n puffin' about, if I may ask, just about an abondoned take off, after all ONLY for the pessengers safety?

Maybe, maybe there was a late detected malfunction, a screaming warning sound, lamp, indicator, somethin', luckily its still up to the pilot to abandon take off on what ever reason and to do so, he/she must have a dam_n good reason.... all else is just like shouting in a cotton bag!

You've just got to be an Aviator!

[BigC]

How many other near misses have there been at Samui airport and can you relate those (if documented) near misses to an average of near misses at other airports around the world with a similar size and activity to USM? That would be much appreciated.

Looking the way you describe this, I almost would think that you're blaming this on BKK air. Now I don't dully support their price policy but reading the story the way your describe it, what would you have expected the pilot and the aircraft carrier could have done in your opinion. Seems to me that the pilot may have done the right thing.

of coarse bangkok air are to blame. who does the pilot work for bangkok airways. who are the planes owned by bangkok airways.

who does the maintance for the planes bangkok airways.

The aircraft has to under go safety checks before each flight. noone blamed the pilot. Even if it was his fault he still works for bandit airways.

who gave the clearence for take off?

I am sorry but if Badit airways was in a govement airport then they may have some lee way excuse though they own the airport and all the planes and the pricing system so they also own the blame 100 per cent of it.

even when samui was flooded. There escuse for not flying was that the run way was flooded and it was not their fault.

Wrong who built the airport bangkok airways is it the customers fault that they did not build it high enough to counter for flooding. Yes, it was not normal flooding situation but this is not the fault of the customer as we pay for that airport. They should have compensated for passenegrs with all that profit that they have.

instead i was over charged 1000 baht for parking even though i could not get back to the car park the next day due to flights being canselled for 3 days.

If they charge high prices then the quality is not up to scratch to equal the high prices. If they had better customer service in crisis situations had better air craft and ditch the prepellor planes.

Had better safetly standards

had better updated information on their websites.

Then they could even up the balance rarther than spending all their money on a fancy airport that people only use in Transit.

Pathetic.

Oh yes and guess who has stolen all the good doctors and nurses from samuis local hospitals Bangkok airways with bangkok hospital.

They own this island !

[samsiam]

I was on a plane in Bkk a couple of years ago with my kids going somewhere...the plane barreling down the runway...not taxing...about halfway I would estimate and then a gut wrenching screech and plane comes to a full stop.....I shat myself and mainly for my kids, had them bent down as thoughts of a plane crossing in front of us and about to slice through it.....it is a nasty thought and I was going to get off the plane if it went back to the gate....it was delayed for some time in a parking bay before trying again though....

[nocturn]

wow, and once again the TV crew of armchair experts come out to pass judgement armed with everything but the facts.

this pissing contest is fueled by little more than speculation based on hearsay.

[nocturn]

How many other near misses have there been at Samui airport and can you relate those (if documented) near misses to an average of near misses at other airports around the world with a similar size and activity to USM? That would be much appreciated.

Looking the way you describe this, I almost would think that you're blaming this on BKK air. Now I don't dully support their price policy but reading the story the way your describe it, what would you have expected the pilot and the aircraft carrier could have done in your opinion. Seems to me that the pilot may have done the right thing.

of coarse bangkok air are to blame. who does the pilot work for bangkok airways. who are the planes owned by bangkok airways.

who does the maintance for the planes bangkok airways.

The aircraft has to under go safety checks before each flight. noone blamed the pilot. Even if it was his fault he still works for bandit airways.

who gave the clearence for take off?

I am sorry but if Badit airways was in a govement airport then they may have some lee way excuse though they own the airport and all the planes and the pricing system so they also own the blame 100 per cent of it.

even when samui was flooded. There escuse for not flying was that the run way was flooded and it was not their fault.

Wrong who built the airport bangkok airways is it the customers fault that they did not build it high enough to counter for flooding. Yes, it was not normal flooding situation but this is not the fault of the customer as we pay for that airport. They should have compensated for passenegrs with all that profit that they have.

instead i was over charged 1000 baht for parking even though i could not get back to the car park the next day due to flights being canselled for 3 days.

If they charge high prices then the quality is not up to scratch to equal the high prices. If they had better customer service in crisis situations had better air craft and ditch the prepellor planes.

Had better safetly standards

had better updated information on their websites.

Then they could even up the balance rarther than spending all their money on a fancy airport that people only use in Transit.

Pathetic.

Oh yes and guess who has stolen all the good doctors and nurses from samuis local hospitals Bangkok airways with bangkok hospital.

They own this island !

always entertaining to see you grind your axe mate. this is about as relevant to the thread as the "information" you made up during the visa run accident thread.

[Gatorade]

wow, and once again the TV crew of armchair experts come out to pass judgement armed with everything but the facts.

this pissing contest is fueled by little more than speculation based on hearsay.

'twas ever thus.

We are indeed fortunate here in Samui to have such a collection of experts (partcularly Aviation) who are able to able to

clearly identify problems and pontificate on virtually any subject.

It would save so much time if the Thai Aviation Investigation Branch knew that we had such a treasure trove of "experts".

[Gatorade]

How many other near misses have there been at Samui airport and can you relate those (if documented) near misses to an average of near misses at other airports around the world with a similar size and activity to USM? That would be much appreciated.

Looking the way you describe this, I almost would think that you're blaming this on BKK air. Now I don't dully support their price policy but reading the story the way your describe it, what would you have expected the pilot and the aircraft carrier could have done in your opinion. Seems to me that the pilot may have done the right thing.

of coarse bangkok air are to blame. who does the pilot work for bangkok airways. who are the planes owned by bangkok airways.

who does the maintance for the planes bangkok airways.

The aircraft has to under go safety checks before each flight. noone blamed the pilot. Even if it was his fault he still works for bandit airways.

who gave the clearence for take off?

I am sorry but if Badit airways was in a govement airport then they may have some lee way excuse though they own the airport and all the planes and the pricing system so they also own the blame 100 per cent of it.

even when samui was flooded. There escuse for not flying was that the run way was flooded and it was not their fault.

Wrong who built the airport bangkok airways is it the customers fault that they did not build it high enough to counter for flooding. Yes, it was not normal flooding situation but this is not the fault of the customer as we pay for that airport. They should have compensated for passenegrs with all that profit that they have.

instead i was over charged 1000 baht for parking even though i could not get back to the car park the next day due to flights being canselled for 3 days.

If they charge high prices then the quality is not up to scratch to equal the high prices. If they had better customer service in crisis situations had better air craft and ditch the prepellor planes.

Had better safetly standards

had better updated information on their websites.

Then they could even up the balance rarther than spending all their money on a fancy airport that people only use in Transit.

Pathetic.

Oh yes and guess who has stolen all the good doctors and nurses from samuis local hospitals Bangkok airways with bangkok hospital.

They own this island !

always entertaining to see you grind your axe mate. this is about as relevant to the thread as the "information" you made up during the visa run accident thread.

Seems that BC feels that any BKK Air incident must somehow be related to the Air Fares! Not worth responding to the rest of the post as it is inaccurate and has no substance whatsoever.