Royal Approval for 23 Gambling Activities, Including Bull Races and Mahjong

[soi41]

Having 2 massageshops, where we at the moment are turning away customers due to lack of staff. We have been advertising for staff for half a year, but are not getting any. Not that we are bad employers, but ladies looking for jobs are only interested in working in in small sidesoi shops selling extras, where they can make 500 baht in 5 minutes. The staff we have already are taking advantage of the situation, by coming and going as they want, because they know we can not kick them out. Still when we paid them yesterday we had ladies getting more than 10k baht for 2 weeks (hard) work. Add tips to that, which probably adds up to at least another 5.000/2weeks. So the money is there for the taking, But Thai staff are simply to lazy, so we have been talking about taking staff from Burma/Laos. We want to do everything by the book. So if any of you out there have any experience of how to recruit, how to get workpermit for them. What to pay ? (this is not to get cheaper staff). We are not interested in paying teamoney to police/immigration, but want to do everything legally. If anyone know how, please share. Thank you.

[impulse]

I don't have any answers for you, but I am curious.

How do you structure the pay of your existing employees? Are they on a straight salary, per hour, or a percentage of their take? Are there any negative consequences for not showing up, or (better in my experience) favorable consequences for showing up and working more?

One other question- are you ready for the internal friction if and when you try to add foreign workers to the mix?

[soi41]

Percentage of their take. 100 baht per worked hour. And now in high season, they can easy get 7-8 hours a day= 700-800 baht + tips per day. Considering that the minimiwage in Thailand is below 300 baht a day, you should think that people would be lining up for the jobs. But no it is easier to sell body or "fly the kite". As the favorable consequenses: The more hours you work, the more you get paid and a couple of times a week we buy food for all staff. Newyears Eve they all got bonuses in a falling scale depending on how well they had worked during the year. Yesterday 3 of them thanked me for not showing up at all (busiest day of the year). As to negative consequenses, as I mentioned, nothing really we can do, which the staff are very well aware of, because that would leave us with even less staff and more customers walking away. Sometimes I feel that kindness in Thailand is considered a weakness.

As for internal friction by bringing in foreign workers, I have got to the point where I couldn't care less. We have advertised for Thai workers, they don't want the jobs, so what can I do ? And I would rather have a group of foreign workers, happy to have a job and a income, than the spoiled brats I have now, most of them with farang sponsor (s), who just are in the shop, because they have nothing better to do. And 3 sponsors are better than 2.

[mrtoad]

It's a common problem. One of my friends who owns a resort got so fed up of it, that he just hired Burmese staff as he had far less problems, and they were reliable. Too many just looking for a quick buck as opposed to stable work.

[IMA_FARANG]

Oh dear.

You seem to not understand that at least two thirds...and maybe more...of all people who must work...NO MATTER in what country...only do so because they want the money. Most, if not all of them, DON'T LIKE the jobs they have to do to earn that money.

That is a fact of human nature, not restricted to Thailand or any other country. It applies equally well to the U.K. , the U.S.A. , or any European country. Even in a poor "economy" in the U.S.A. thousands of low level jobs are simply not taken by U/S/ citizens; and that is why immigrants are the only ones who will take such jobs.

For each potential employee only one in ten will want the job you offer...and probably if they do take that job...only one in ten of those while being be willing to work hard enough to get the money they want and need.

By my reckoning them only one in a hundred will be a willing and hard-working employee.

My brother, because of his age, had to leave a physically demanding job as a skilled worker in construction where he made good money.

He trained, believe it or not, as a massage therepist. It took him 6 months just to get to the point where he got the required certificates for his license. This was in the U.S. and the license process is not easy.

Then he worked for two years as a "apprentice" for an established company...before he could even think about going independent and having his own massage business.

Anyhow, bottom line, simply attempting to get non-Thai staff won't solve your problems.

Not in Thailand, or any other country either.

[impulse]

soi41, Thanks for the response. I'm curious because I am in Thailand on an assignment with a WP and am considering opening a micro business that would, of course, require Thai employees and/or a Thai partner.

I'm interested in what works and what doesn't work here in Thailand. I (sadly) became a walking encyclopedia on what doesn't work in many years in China. What I found there is that, sooner or later (and usually pretty soon), base salary became an entitlement for just being available to work. If I wanted them to show up EVERY day, or actually do anything, that was extra. It's not that they were lazy; they could be extremely industrious- in fact a lot of times they didn't show up they were moonlighting. But they were extremely good at figuring out how to get the maximum money for the minimum effort. Eventually I offered a small base salary with the majority of their income based on how good we as a company did that month. It wasn't perfect, but it did smooth things out.

Good luck with your endeavor.

[Pseudolus]

I think you are taking a western management approach to Thai employees that although is a must back west, in Thailand will simply show you as being a weak pushover. If they are working for you one must assume it is because they do not want to work in a knocking shop so really they do indeed want to work for you. However, because you are seen as soft and weak to them, they are taking the piss because the only comeback from you is words; and words basically mean nothing.

Change the pay structure to pay monthly, and with fines for not showing up equating to double a days pay (sliding commission scale basically making it discretionary that you will pay them if they show up and work hard should mean you are not seen as removing salary but withholding commission). Maybe move the commission to be paid monthly with the salary Fortnightly, and that the commission rate goes up with every day they work; and extra for important trade days. If they are not toeing the line then, sack the mouthiest one / mother hen one that is bound to be there. Knock all the added extras on the head (buying them food? maybe once a month when it's one of their birthdays). Finally, be imaginative with where you find the workers. Join social networking sites and there are a stack of free job boards in Thailand and other places. Might also be worth sticking up a flyer in schools of massage as well with prominent wording stating they do not have whack off sex tourists to make a living working for you.

You are paying good money, and you should not be scared of losing them. They need the job but are taking advantage of you good nature and western style.

Edited January 3, 2012 by AdamBanks

[soi41]

AdamBanks. Thanx for an interesting reply. First of all we have been in business for many years (9) and have seen many staff come and go. After interfering with the manegement of the shops the first couple of years, I backed down and left the running of the business 100% to my Thai wife. So it is Thai on Thai. As I mentioned before many of the ladies have sponsors, stupid OAP from Europe, so I can not punish them economically, because half of them have a million bath or more in their bankaccounts, no joking, last year my wife helped 3 of our staff to buy houses in Hua Hin. And I can tell you that the money didn't come from us! The buying them food thing, is help to selfhelp. A way to keep them in the shop, so we don't have 4 girls leaving at the same time to eat, for 2-3 hours. Or go to a hotel, to do a private "massage".

When we opened we were massageshop #5 in HH, today I guess there is about 200! So if we get to tuff, the girls will have a new workplace within 5 minutes. We need about 25 staff, and have 15 (one shop), so the customers we turn away costs us at least 10.000 baht a day in peakseason. That is why we have started to look across the borders. This year it is to late to do something about it, but we don't want a repeat next year. My wife, Thai as she is, was actually the one who came up wiht the idea to bring in foreign staff. SHE is feed up with Thai staff !!

It is not all black, we have some fantastic girls working for us. 5 of them has been with us for more than 8 years and they are really the backbone of our business. And ofcourse we show our appriciation in different ways to them.

[thaipod]

We've had Burmese / Karen girls working for us for the past 7-8 years due to my wife giving up of employing Thais as you can't rely on them ,once they get comfortable then you don't know if they are going to turn up and always have issues with either the boyfriend , family and take every holiday plus extra and of course money or just don't want to work.

You can approach agents or find them at alien workers registration offices ,a lot of police seem to know where to get them . But the normal problem is that you have to train them which can be a headache and give them accommodation also register them which they all want as they think they can go anywhere they want and have the same privileges as Thais . Also the language barrier can be a problem , you need them to understand Thai and english.

[Naam]

We've had Burmese / Karen girls working for us for the past 7-8 years due to my wife giving up of employing Thais as you can't rely on them ,once they get comfortable then you don't know if they are going to turn up and always have issues with either the boyfriend , family and take every holiday plus extra and of course money or just don't want to work.

You can approach agents or find them at alien workers registration offices ,a lot of police seem to know where to get them . But the normal problem is that you have to train them which can be a headache and give them accommodation also register them which they all want as they think they can go anywhere they want and have the same privileges as Thais . Also the language barrier can be a problem , you need them to understand Thai and english.

-immigration and/or police can advise you whom to contact and about the legal procedure.

-all domestic staff has to be trained whether they are Thai, Burmese or headhunters from Papua New Guinea.

-quite a number of Burmese employees (Nepali or Indian ethnicity) possess an acceptable command of English.

[4evermaat]

We've had Burmese / Karen girls working for us for the past 7-8 years due to my wife giving up of employing Thais as you can't rely on them ,once they get comfortable then you don't know if they are going to turn up and always have issues with either the boyfriend , family and take every holiday plus extra and of course money or just don't want to work.

.........

Thank you. I am not the only one and it has nothing to do with us being mean or anything. The customer flow can be an issue some days, but that will change as advertising improves. We have had to turn away customers several times because not enough workers. But it is the silly reasons (problems with family, spouse/bf/gf, etc) I am curious if one or two loyal foreign workers would do the trick. But we've only been doing this for about 3 months now or so, but talking to other businesses they have similar staffing problems. And it is more difficult outside the major cities. live and learn I guess.

[samran]

I'm on the road at the moment and only have my blackberry, otherwise I would have directed you to the link, but I've written extensively on this (started a topic) about 2 years back on how to hire workers from burma laos or cambodia under the migrant labour programme. Run a search on the website and hopefully you'll be directed to the link. In essence you'll need your company to hire them on a large scale. Local and expat individuals can hire them under their own name but that is limited to one or two staff whereas the company can hire as many as you need without the usual restrictions on that labour ratio's and paid up capital.

[Naam]

...expat individuals can hire them under their own name

a rather tedious but not impossible procedure. it's much easier to go the company route and once, based on plausible reasons, approved the renewal of the two-year valid work permits is a breeze (as opposed to the procedure the average Joe Farang has to go through to renew his work permit).