Common Courtesy In Thailand

[ttthailand]

I love it when getting to the top of an escalator and someone steps off and stops to talk or think and their next move. It blocks everyone else and they then move away like "whats the problem".

Also, elevator stops, door opens and people trying to get in before people get off. Give me a break and wait your turn A... hole.

[brizzle]

Since the whole water thing seemed to surface after my post, I guess, in all fairness, I should point out that after I returned from the next-door neighbor an hour or so later, one of the sisters did give me a bottle of coke. No food, though.

well if you were at my place I wouldnt offer food either

cos I cant

but will certainly offer you some chocolates

jokes and personal practice aside, it would be rude to not offer some sort of hospitality. a glass of water is the minimum.

especially in Bonobo's case - when someone has driven hours to do something for you. the talking part - there may be other explanation - shy, insecure to talk to a foreigner

but a smile crosses any language barrier. a smile accompanied with some water..some sort of hot drink like milo or similar would be the next closest thing to food if the hour was too unusual to offer someone a proper meal.

if the house is living in extreme poverty, even then they would offer some sort of hospitality that is within their means (which from the fact of purchasing a car I would imagine they cant be THAT poor)

sounds like poor manners - but I have to argue against this being typical or the norm in thai society.

Well maybe it's not the norm but it does happen...I thought my experience was a one off but when I read bonobos's post it hit a cord...It bought all the memories back....I can identify with bonobos's feelings on that day ...and believe me it's not the best feeling in the world...trust me on that at least.

As far as Bangkok skytrains and driving manners within Thailand...well I rest my case....for the most part I hope no explanation is required.

Edited January 7, 2012 by metisdead
Font reset, use default forum font when posting.

[travelmann]

It happens.

On a particularly tiring day on the sky train at Siam people all tried to barge through me and the other people trying to get off I had enough and grabbed the guy trying to barge through me by his shirt and took him with me until I reached the escalators.

I hope he waits in place for his turn next time.

Shouldve stapled his tie to the escalator rail and watched the terror on his face as it started to devour him

[mataus101]

I find the west the same, people are becoming increasingly rude with each generation,young thais are catching up.

They no longer give up there seats on the bus or train for young children or the elderly.

my wife is pregnant, our daughters 8, no one gave up a seat for her, she is quite outspoken and really well and truly let it be known how rude they are and most people just stared at the floor in shame.

I'm pleased to say that a few weeks ago our daughter was chosen from all the students in her school in BKK to compete in a school event demonstrating all thai customs, they say she was chosen due to her politeness, we are doing something right thankfully.

I will add I am 35 and I am complaining to, the older boys have every right, has nothing to do with being grumpy old men, even my wife who was raised to be polite to the extreme is tired of many of the thai youth.

Edited January 7, 2012 by mataus101

[xthAi76s]

I just finished reading a book that discussed this type of thing. The book argues that Thais operate in 3 social circles of increasing indifference. They are: family circle, cautious circle and selfish circle.

Take a peek at: http://www.thingsasi...ies-photos/2704

From the link above

"For example, why can such an otherwise gentle and non-confrontational people be such aggressive drivers? How can they be so compassionate in certain circumstances and so callous in others? And why do English-speaking Thais in the company of an English-speaking foreigner nevertheless insist on speaking Thai?"

The authors argue that the answers to the first two questions depend upon what they call the three circles of Thai social interactions: the Family, Cautious, and selfish circles respectively. Basically the list proceeds in ascending order of indifference. The guy cutting you off on the road, or cutting in front of you in a queue, calculates that he will probably never encounter you again and can therefore afford to be assertive."

[xthAi76s]

I just stick to what I have learnt: holding a door open, letting someone (especially ladies) go first etc.

Still I get (depending on how I got up) aggressive sometimes, if people are just rude...and yes, I tend to forget that this is Thailand and things are handeled differently here.

Shirt and long sleeves - a must! But you can wear flip flops with it!

I'd been the same way for some time here in Thailand. I would just faithfully interact with people using my social values. However, what I realized/suspect now is that unfortunately, as we'd imagine, many Thais do likely know that we chaw-tang-chaat (foreigners of all colors and countries) do not know their system. They therefore often will take advantage of us in this regard and use us as an opportunity to 'get over' on us showing us the least amount of courtesy even they are taught to show to strangers. That's the problem with being nice by our standards. We are no better for it and will almost never get any reciprocation.

Best is to adopt a hybrid system whereby we learn and exploit their system, and, when necessary, use our system when it's advantageous. Sometimes, I will hold the door open for someone even if I know they will not appreciate it or care -- if it serves me well at the time.

[Fookhaht]

I just finished reading a book that discussed this type of thing. The book argues that Thais operate in 3 social circles of increasing indifference. They are: family circle, cautious circle and selfish circle.

Take a peek at: http://www.thingsasi...ies-photos/2704

From the link above

"For example, why can such an otherwise gentle and non-confrontational people be such aggressive drivers? How can they be so compassionate in certain circumstances and so callous in others? And why do English-speaking Thais in the company of an English-speaking foreigner nevertheless insist on speaking Thai?"

The authors argue that the answers to the first two questions depend upon what they call the three circles of Thai social interactions: the Family, Cautious, and selfish circles respectively. Basically the list proceeds in ascending order of indifference. The guy cutting you off on the road, or cutting in front of you in a queue, calculates that he will probably never encounter you again and can therefore afford to be assertive."

Great link and good information. I've got the book referred to, and it helped me greatly during a time of real disillusionment in working with my Thai colleagues.

[Fookhaht]

I just stick to what I have learnt: holding a door open, letting someone (especially ladies) go first etc.

Still I get (depending on how I got up) aggressive sometimes, if people are just rude...and yes, I tend to forget that this is Thailand and things are handeled differently here.

Shirt and long sleeves - a must! But you can wear flip flops with it!

I'd been the same way for some time here in Thailand. I would just faithfully interact with people using my social values. However, what I realized/suspect now is that unfortunately, as we'd imagine, many Thais do likely know that we chaw-tang-chaat (foreigners of all colors and countries) do not know their system. They therefore often will take advantage of us in this regard and use us as an opportunity to 'get over' on us showing us the least amount of courtesy even they are taught to show to strangers. That's the problem with being nice by our standards. We are no better for it and will almost never get any reciprocation.

Best is to adopt a hybrid system whereby we learn and exploit their system, and, when necessary, use our system when it's advantageous. Sometimes, I will hold the door open for someone even if I know they will not appreciate it or care -- if it serves me well at the time.

This advice strikes me as a bit heavy on the adversarial viewpoint of life as a guest in a foreign country. A bit selfish too. IMHO

[xthAi76s]

I just finished reading a book that discussed this type of thing. The book argues that Thais operate in 3 social circles of increasing indifference. They are: family circle, cautious circle and selfish circle.

Take a peek at: http://www.thingsasi...ies-photos/2704

From the link above

"For example, why can such an otherwise gentle and non-confrontational people be such aggressive drivers? How can they be so compassionate in certain circumstances and so callous in others? And why do English-speaking Thais in the company of an English-speaking foreigner nevertheless insist on speaking Thai?"

The authors argue that the answers to the first two questions depend upon what they call the three circles of Thai social interactions: the Family, Cautious, and selfish circles respectively. Basically the list proceeds in ascending order of indifference. The guy cutting you off on the road, or cutting in front of you in a queue, calculates that he will probably never encounter you again and can therefore afford to be assertive."

Great link and good information. I've got the book referred to, and it helped me greatly during a time of real disillusionment in working with my Thai colleagues.

Glad to hear that someone else enjoyed the book. There really are a number of books written about all this. It's not to say that certain behaviors are always excusable, but having an understanding of perhaps why things happen the way they do is really key to preventing the early onset of insanity.

Edited January 7, 2012 by ThailandMan

[xthAi76s]

I just stick to what I have learnt: holding a door open, letting someone (especially ladies) go first etc.

Still I get (depending on how I got up) aggressive sometimes, if people are just rude...and yes, I tend to forget that this is Thailand and things are handeled differently here.

Shirt and long sleeves - a must! But you can wear flip flops with it!

I'd been the same way for some time here in Thailand. I would just faithfully interact with people using my social values. However, what I realized/suspect now is that unfortunately, as we'd imagine, many Thais do likely know that we chaw-tang-chaat (foreigners of all colors and countries) do not know their system. They therefore often will take advantage of us in this regard and use us as an opportunity to 'get over' on us showing us the least amount of courtesy even they are taught to show to strangers. That's the problem with being nice by our standards. We are no better for it and will almost never get any reciprocation.

Best is to adopt a hybrid system whereby we learn and exploit their system, and, when necessary, use our system when it's advantageous. Sometimes, I will hold the door open for someone even if I know they will not appreciate it or care -- if it serves me well at the time.

This advice strikes me as a bit heavy on the adversarial viewpoint of life as a guest in a foreign country. A bit selfish too. IMHO

I know it must sound that way, but that's not really the feeling. For me, it's more of a survival thing. I need my positive energy to do positive things in my life and in the world. So, whatever non-violent ways I can deflect the constant onslaught of positive energy sapping behaviors, I will use as often as needed.

[Fookhaht]

I just stick to what I have learnt: holding a door open, letting someone (especially ladies) go first etc.

Still I get (depending on how I got up) aggressive sometimes, if people are just rude...and yes, I tend to forget that this is Thailand and things are handeled differently here.

Shirt and long sleeves - a must! But you can wear flip flops with it!

I'd been the same way for some time here in Thailand. I would just faithfully interact with people using my social values. However, what I realized/suspect now is that unfortunately, as we'd imagine, many Thais do likely know that we chaw-tang-chaat (foreigners of all colors and countries) do not know their system. They therefore often will take advantage of us in this regard and use us as an opportunity to 'get over' on us showing us the least amount of courtesy even they are taught to show to strangers. That's the problem with being nice by our standards. We are no better for it and will almost never get any reciprocation.

Best is to adopt a hybrid system whereby we learn and exploit their system, and, when necessary, use our system when it's advantageous. Sometimes, I will hold the door open for someone even if I know they will not appreciate it or care -- if it serves me well at the time.

This advice strikes me as a bit heavy on the adversarial viewpoint of life as a guest in a foreign country. A bit selfish too. IMHO

I know it must sound that way, but that's not really the feeling. For me, it's more of a survival thing. I need my positive energy to do positive things in my life and in the world. So, whatever non-violent ways I can deflect the constant onslaught of positive energy sapping behaviors, I will use as often as needed.

Sort of "good-overcomes-evil" daily life choices? I'll buy that.

[xthAi76s]

And, if all fails, I just head over to Emporium on Suk to experience all the politeness by the Japanese transplants in that area. How wonderfully polite they are. What I notice is that I can fairly often catch a Japanese (slightly) visibly bothered by the Thai customary lack of politeness for strangers.

Just for laughs:

[TigerWan]

Wondered how long it would take before the first sarcastic comment. The guy's just posting an observation <deleted>.

There is a strong contigent on forums that seems to be unable to allow others their opinions and seek to discredit the opinions on a personal level with use of innuendo and slurs.

I agree , Thais are not particularly considerate, look at how they drive. I would also add the famous politeness is just more of the facade, I've seen it drop into what is actually a nasty demeanor very quickly. It seems to be all about making it easy for themslelves rather than a genuine desire to be polite.

Two- faced is the word I apply most frequently to their conduct.. One can argue we should not apply our moral standards to another culture and I can agree with that so I try not to.

But the incessant lying gets a little hard to take- I firmly believe it really is an Asian more that is perfectly acceptable and if I could only warn potential expats of one thing, that would be it.

[connda]

The way your mummy taught you to behave is different to the way my mummy taught me to behave. So my idea of "common courtesy" might have some similarities to you, but also some differences. Since there are billions of mummies in the world, I think we can assume that courtesy is similarly variegated, and respond accordingly - that is, with calm indifference to the behaviour of others.

Quite, nature versus nurture, but I would add.

Why does almost an entire nation think that it is perfectly Ok to go knuckle deep in their noses in plain view, but cover their mouths when using a tooth-pick?

I'd just love some one to explain that.

+1 LOL -- That is exactly one of those cultural oddities that bring up in conversations with both my Thai and farang friends. Good for a laugh!!!

[connda]

I don't think it's always deliberate discourtesy; more a complete lack of awareness and consideration. In the first instance (lady at the door in the mall) I wouldn't be so sure that she DID notice you, OP. Thais have an amazing ability- even when faced with my large frame- not to notice me when they are in their 'zombie walker' mode. In some instances, I will be walking through bottlenecks on the sidewalk of the type you describe, and the Thais on the other side will simply come ahead- even though it is extra-impossible they will be able to get around me. When they meet me coming the other way, I stop and wait for them to 'wake up'- they really do act surprised I am there- and then they have to go back the other way and wait for me to come out.

It is a bit less excusable when they treat me as some kind of inanimate obstacle, as OP describes with the 'pushy' lady. If they are simply getting my attention so that I can assist them in passing, by tapping on my shoulder or elbow, then I am all smiles and do as much as I can. If they start using what counts (for them) as heavy physical force, I just go into la-la land and pretend I don't even notice them. They usually do much more damage to themselves than they have a hope of accomplishing to me.

Once or twice they have been so rude and pushy (usually involving alcohol, too), even ignoring my polite attempts to alert them that I was not comfortable, that I felt a response was called for, and I exerted a small part of my strength to push back. Usually they decided to maintain the wide, clear berth that such actions provided for me.

Its funny but oh so true the "zombie state" usually entrenched in a phone, I see them coming and stop dead and then let them walk into me hitting me and then they start apologising, its funny until you realise maybe thats how they drive too????

Yeah, I've been there too. Walking in the mall and a line of people walking 12 abreast coming the other way. I stop, center myself, then had some idiot swing a shoulder into me (all 5 foot of him), and all he accomplish was to almost knock himself over. He smiled and apologized, and I gave him the cheesy farang grin. That one I just racked up to either the guy had been drinking or didn't like pasty-white folk of non-Thai decent, or both.