AFP, Thailand Investigate Claims Of Fake Rescue Of Children From Sex Slavery

[webfact]

AFP, Thailand investigate claims of fake rescue of children from sex slavery

BY: ANDREW DRUMMOND AND ANDREW FRASER From: The Australian

THAILAND'S Department of Special Investigations has begun an investigation into the alleged fake rescue last year of hill tribe children from sexual slavery by an Australian charity.

At the request of the Australian Federal Police, they will also submit a letter through Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs seeking a parallel investigation in Australia that focuses on the alleged use of false advertising to solicit funds.

The move follows a meeting of representatives of the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security (DSI), Trafcord (the anti-trafficking co-ordination unit of Northern Thailand) and the National Committee on Trafficking, foreshadowed in The Weekend Australian.

AFP officers had been summoned to the meeting on Saturday at the DSI headquarters in Bangkok to hear the complaints. The AFP did not comment, but a source at the meeting said the AFP representative had asked the DSI to make the request formal through the normal channels.

The Grey Man's Brisbane-based president, John Curtis, said yesterday he had no difficulties with any investigation by either the Thai government or the AFP.

"We have no problem with any authority looking at our operation. Our major concern is for the children, and we stick with everything that we've done. [more...]

"We'll co-operate with any investigation, but we have no doubt that we'll be completely exonerated. We have no problems with the AFP looking at both our accounts and the basis upon what it was raised."

The move follows complaints that The Grey Man, which claims it is comprised of ex-police officers and special services veterans, faked the rescue of 21 Akha hill tribe children from the village of Baan Khun Suay in Chiang Rai province of northern Thailand last October.

The charity placed pictures of the children on their website and Facebook pages and began an appeal for funds.

But investigations by the Thai non-government organisation Trafcord and the DSI had found that the children had never left their homes, had continued to attend school and had suffered as a result of the publicity.

Mr Curtis said The Grey Man's activities seemed to be resented by Trafcord.

"The successes of The Grey Man seem to have raised sensitive issues with a Thai-based NGO, which unfortunately appears to have distracted them from their core activity while they pursue a vendetta against The Grey Man," he said.

Source: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/foreign-affairs/afp-thailand-investigate-claims-of-fake-rescue-of-children-from-sex-slavery/story-fn59nm2j-1226239371208

-- theaustralian.com.au 2012-01-09

[luckizuchinni]

I don't know the specifics in this case, but I have lately wondered at all the "anti-slavery" claims which keep popping up, and I wonder how much is self-aggrandizement by the police, NGO's and news agencies.

Not to belittle the plight of true slavery, but some of the cases which have been trumpeted in the news do not seem to fall into the slavery kettle of fish.

[alstaxi]

This was all the rage a year ago, they rescued some people, and got a lot of publicity from it, and donations. They rescued 4 girls from a bar, while there were several dozen bars and several hundred girls on the same street. Smelled phony then, still does.

[pointoffew]

To avoid any misunderstanding, AFP here refers to the Australian Federal Police and not to the French press agency.

[softgeorge]

Sounds like someone at Trafcord is annoyed that his buffalo is sick and he can't get his hands on the Greymans funds, to many auditing checks in place.

[harrycallahan]

The Thais should go hard on them. This stuff flows back to mainstream media and promotes the fallacy that Thailand is "full of pedos" that ignorant chumps always chant.

[luckizuchinni]

There was a case in all the Filipino papers and tv last year where the Cebu police "rescued" "sex slaves." They were cam girls and boys working in a house and on equipment supplied by a foreigner, I think a Danish man.

When they interviewed the "slaves," both the two women and the one man interviewed said they were working by choice as it was safer, they could make decent money, and they didn't have to work actually having sex with strangers. They didn't know what they were going to do now that their place of work was closed. One of the women seemed pretty upset that she could not make a living after that and might have to go back to a bar.

Whether people should be able to work as a camgirl or camboy is another issue, but without doubt, I can't see those three interviewees being slaves by any stretch of the definition.

[softgeorge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcHLKnSjs6A&feature=player_embedded

[jayceenik]

From my early days in LOS I remember that Belgian woman who rented a big house in BKK, then hired a few young unemployed girls to stay in the house and pretend they had been "rescued" from Patpong when sponsors to her fake charitable organisation would show up.

A Belgian journalist got suspicious, investigated her and revealed her scam.

She had to abandon her profitable activity and rerturn to Belgium.

[softgeorge]

The Thais should go hard on them. This stuff flows back to mainstream media and promotes the fallacy that Thailand is "full of pedos" that ignorant chumps always chant.

what the video from the 11 minute mark and it may provide an answer for you..

Edited January 9, 2012 by softgeorge

[PlastikbinLina]

This was all the rage a year ago, they rescued some people, and got a lot of publicity from it, and donations. They rescued 4 girls from a bar, while there were several dozen bars and several hundred girls on the same street. Smelled phony then, still does.

Yes I agree. I read that the rescue entailed going to a place where girls sat behind glass, choosing someone, taking her back to the rescuers house and then quizzing as to whether she wanted to stay there. Wouldn't that be a bit risky for the rescuer especially if she later claimed he tried to do something untoward? How about taking her to a senior police woman for questioning annd help or better still take an undercover policeman along to the market place?

[cowslip]

I don't know the specifics in this case, but I have lately wondered at all the "anti-slavery" claims which keep popping up, and I wonder how much is self-aggrandizement by the police, NGO's and news agencies.

Not to belittle the plight of true slavery, but some of the cases which have been trumpeted in the news do not seem to fall into the slavery kettle of fish.

"slavery kettle of fish" - what on earth does that mean?

[softgeorge]

This was all the rage a year ago, they rescued some people, and got a lot of publicity from it, and donations. They rescued 4 girls from a bar, while there were several dozen bars and several hundred girls on the same street. Smelled phony then, still does.

Yes I agree. I read that the rescue entailed going to a place where girls sat behind glass, choosing someone, taking her back to the rescuers house and then quizzing as to whether she wanted to stay there. Wouldn't that be a bit risky for the rescuer especially if she later claimed he tried to do something untoward? How about taking her to a senior police woman for questioning annd help or better still take an undercover policeman along to the market place?

They do work with the Thai police and thai social workers who actually take the girls, not the greymen themselves.

[luckizuchinni]

I don't know the specifics in this case, but I have lately wondered at all the "anti-slavery" claims which keep popping up, and I wonder how much is self-aggrandizement by the police, NGO's and news agencies.

Not to belittle the plight of true slavery, but some of the cases which have been trumpeted in the news do not seem to fall into the slavery kettle of fish.

"slavery kettle of fish" - what on earth does that mean?

"Kettle of fish" could be now strictly an American term, but as it first was seen in print in England hundreds of years ago, I don't think so. "A different kettle of fish" means one thing is not in the same category as the other. Conversely, the "same kettle of fish" came to mean that two things are in the same category or circumstances.

From the Collins Dictionary:

kettle of fish (n)

1.

a situation; state of affairs (often used ironically in the phrase

a pretty

or

fine kettle of fish

)

2.

case; matter for consideration

that's quite a different kettle of fish

Edited January 9, 2012 by luckizuchinni

[Card]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcHLKnSjs6A&feature=player_embedded

What is this guy?:A 'special forces' agent on a 'higher mission' who one day, looking at his 5 year-old daughter in bed, had a 'revelation' and voices spoke in his head. And he didn't have a problem going from brothel to brothel posing as a paedophile. OMG.

[anterian]

It's all a question of definition, slavery, underage, are emotive terms but have cultural variations in meaning.

Most people are "work slaves" but feel they are not slaves because they can change jobs. However, if only one type of job is available, do you become a true slave?

[cowslip]

It's all a question of definition, slavery, underage, are emotive terms but have cultural variations in meaning.

Most people are "work slaves" but feel they are not slaves because they can change jobs. However, if only one type of job is available, do you become a true slave?

Hardly! - I think you'll find there is an internationally recognised definition of slavery that is accepted by most countries.......getting into petty semantics is pretty tangential to the argument.

The issue here is were there fraudulent claims or actions taken by the charity....or is it a fabrication by a disgruntled Thai organisation?

Edited January 9, 2012 by cowslip

[cowslip]

Interview - I've seen this guy before - and I have to say from a personal point of view, I don't find him very convincing.

I would also question his motivation and abilities to do this sort of thing.

He sees things in terms of "bad guy" etc which is alarmingly simplistic for someone actively engaged in this sort of work.

he seems to see things as "risky" etc - in terms of adventure...the status is legal in Thailand but I can see there could be a gap between him and the authorities....he even am its to "james Bond" type tactics!?!?!

...and sting operations? - very dodgy - there is a fine line between "sting" and entrapment.

BTW - What happens to rescued girls????? - what is the alternative? - he's actually very vague about this

"they go into proper shelters where they get proper training"....hmmmmmm?

I would worry too about the "screening process" too......

Vigilante - is a "strange" thing to say - hardly......and I would suggest everything they do is on the verge of extra-judicial

Edited January 9, 2012 by cowslip

[moe666]

Even if the cause maybe a good one I am always leary of DO GOODERS and their agenda. Many times they are caught out too have more than one cause and that is usually lining their own pockets.

[samsiam]

What is this guy?:A 'special forces' agent on a 'higher mission' who one day, looking at his 5 year-old daughter in bed, had a 'revelation' and voices spoke in his head. And he didn't have a problem going from brothel to brothel posing as a paedophile. OMG.

What is your problem with this Card ??....him doing something about it....or ??

[jobsworth]

It's all about fund raising and donations.

It has little to do with the welfare of children.

Don't let these people anywhere near any of your children.

They are all Christian and challenged in some way,

either alcoholics, heroin addicts, overweight or missing a limb.

They really need to work on themselves and not take it out on others.

Don't talk to them, they lie everything. Watch what they do.

"The end justifies the means."

That is just putting it mildly so as not to offend this forum.

Let us hope that the Thai authorities can do something.

[OzMick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcHLKnSjs6A&feature=player_embedded

What is this guy?:A 'special forces' agent on a 'higher mission' who one day, looking at his 5 year-old daughter in bed, had a 'revelation' and voices spoke in his head. And he didn't have a problem going from brothel to brothel posing as a paedophile. OMG.

The revelation may well have been "Everybody hates pedos. If I set up a web site collecting money to catch them, rescue abused kids, or some such BS, I could rake in a fortune."

I tried the same thing with "Save the Black Lesbian Disabled Single-Parent Whales" but it didn't work, probably too subtle.

[tragickingdom]

Nothing new under the sun. Most "rescue" centers are lock-ups for children who were seldom involved in the sex business. Worse especially American missionaries are making great money out of it. Not seldom can projects be found on the internet that claim a lot, if you speak with the children themselves it works out that the children have been forced down from villages to stay in the missions. Christian missionaries not seldom use them as cheap labor. The people back home are paying and have no flu that the missionaries live as God in France, instead of a poor chap in Thailand.

Foreign NGO's in certain areas should be checked very regularly and know halfway houses or rescue centers should only be allowed to keep children after the court has referred them. Right now children are held prisoner by NGO's without the knowledge of the court but with the knowledge of crooked police and immigration officers.

[luckizuchinni]

I don't know the specifics in this case, but I have lately wondered at all the "anti-slavery" claims which keep popping up, and I wonder how much is self-aggrandizement by the police, NGO's and news agencies.

Not to belittle the plight of true slavery, but some of the cases which have been trumpeted in the news do not seem to fall into the slavery kettle of fish.

"slavery kettle of fish" - what on earth does that mean?

"Kettle of fish" could be now strictly an American term, but as it first was seen in print in England hundreds of years ago, I don't think so. "A different kettle of fish" means one thing is not in the same category as the other. Conversely, the "same kettle of fish" came to mean that two things are in the same category or circumstances.

From the Collins Dictionary:

kettle of fish (n)

1.

a situation; state of affairs (often used ironically in the phrase

a pretty

or

fine kettle of fish

)

2.

case; matter for consideration

that's quite a different kettle of fish

Sorry but I think it's misused in the above context - a different kettle of fish is the usual usage

I guess you and the Collins Dictionary will just have to agree to disagree on that. If you think it is important enough to take the thread off-topic to disagree with simple word usage, so be it.

[blackthorn2005]

I hope this is not true, I have supported this charity in the past. If it is true, I hope he gets the book thrown at him.

[chooka]

Interview - I've seen this guy before - and I have to say from a personal point of view, I don't find him very convincing.

I would also question his motivation and abilities to do this sort of thing.

He sees things in terms of "bad guy" etc which is alarmingly simplistic for someone actively engaged in this sort of work.

he seems to see things as "risky" etc - in terms of adventure...the status is legal in Thailand but I can see there could be a gap between him and the authorities....he even am its to "james Bond" type tactics!?!?!

...and sting operations? - very dodgy - there is a fine line between "sting" and entrapment.

BTW - What happens to rescued girls????? - what is the alternative? - he's actually very vague about this

"they go into proper shelters where they get proper training"....hmmmmmm?

I would worry too about the "screening process" too......

Vigilante - is a "strange" thing to say - hardly......and I would suggest everything they do is on the verge of extra-judicial

Where did you meet him, or did you just see someone that resembled him?

Everything they do is on the verge of extra-juducial???? Do you know the meaning of that? Your trolling right? Have you heard what he had to say? they work with Thai authorities and do not make arrests or get involved in the judicial process. They lure the girls and women out and offer them alternatives and they do not use force to remove them against thier will.

[samsiam]

It's all about fund raising and donations.

It has little to do with the welfare of children.

Don't let these people anywhere near any of your children.

They are all Christian and challenged in some way,

either alcoholics, heroin addicts, overweight or missing a limb.

They really need to work on themselves and not take it out on others.

Don't talk to them, they lie everything. Watch what they do.

"The end justifies the means."

That is just putting it mildly so as not to offend this forum.

Let us hope that the Thai authorities can do something.

Wow....I can understand this type of comment if you were abandoned as a child in government institutions or abused by priests....but if not, you could do with some kindness me thinks.

[bonobo]

I don't know the specifics in this case, but I have lately wondered at all the "anti-slavery" claims which keep popping up, and I wonder how much is self-aggrandizement by the police, NGO's and news agencies.

Not to belittle the plight of true slavery, but some of the cases which have been trumpeted in the news do not seem to fall into the slavery kettle of fish.

"slavery kettle of fish" - what on earth does that mean?

"Kettle of fish" could be now strictly an American term, but as it first was seen in print in England hundreds of years ago, I don't think so. "A different kettle of fish" means one thing is not in the same category as the other. Conversely, the "same kettle of fish" came to mean that two things are in the same category or circumstances.

From the Collins Dictionary:

kettle of fish (n)

1.

a situation; state of affairs (often used ironically in the phrase

a pretty

or

fine kettle of fish

)

2.

case; matter for consideration

that's quite a different kettle of fish

Sorry but I think it's misused in the above context - a different kettle of fish is the usual usage

Even if correct, it is considered poor netiquette to correct another poster's grammar and word usage. (In this case, it is more awkward as the correction itself is incorrect. The poster used the term in a completely acceptable and commonly used manner.)

So let's try and keep the grammar-Nazis at bay and keep on topic.

[Chopperboy]

Thailand attracts plenty of money making NGO's

Read Phil Thornton's book RESTLESS SOULS - Rebels, Refugees, Medics And Misfits On The Thai-Burma Border.

http://www.irrawaddy...php?art_id=5446

[rotary]

Yea guess it goes to show some, not all by any means, of the NGOs are really just scams which I have thought for many years