3Rd Teacher Waiver Refusal

[atyclb]

I lack any formal qualifications

I think this just about says it all.

If you want to work as a teacher in Thailand you must be qualified, the fact that you were allowed to work with out qualifications was luck on your part and now it is over.

I had been receiving free UBC for a year and a half at my condo; the other week the signal stopped. Since I had no right to the service in the first place I have no right to complain about it.

If you want to teach in Thailand, get the proper credentials.

Not having a degree in of itself for a native english speaking person teaching english is not and should not be mandatory criteria. A motivared individual can easily read books on teaching english and make lesson plans while using the book in essence learn while doing.

I consider myself a crap english teacher; why? because I have long forgotten the formal rules nor am I interested in them. Could I get a job as an english teach, most probably owing to bachelors and doctorate degrees, in unrelated fields.

Criteria for teaching english should not be based exclusively on degrees and certificates, especially in a country in dire need of language skills.

Edited January 15, 2012 by atyclb

[atyclb]

May I ask how is a Thai Language, Culture and Ethics course pertinent/relevant to teaching english?

[siampolee]

atyclb # 32.

May I ask how is a Thai Language, Culture and Ethics course pertinent/relevant to teaching English?

Like a good many others here I have attended the course, It had nor as far as I can see even now no pertient link to teaching using the English language as the medium of instruction in any way shape or form whether the subject material may be, or have been maths, science, social studies or any other subject material as may be taught using English as the medium of instruction in any way shape or form.

However the instructors ego's were indeed filled to overflowing by their opportunity to inform and instruct us all about the indoctrination techniques of the Thai education system.

The dancing and the asking for food instruction section was indeed most amusing and worthy of a first rate comedy sketch on Thai T.V.

I went to the course with an open mind and willing to learn, should really have known better than that though.

Sad to say " that even after some twenty two plus years of living in a Thai centered environment andt bringing up a mixed race family (Thai and English) along with living and teaching here I learnt nothing at all, It was all about that which I and others already knew. One of our fellow female teachers a Burmese lady who has been teaching here for some thirty years and is married to a Thai also had to endure the course as well. her comments were indeed somewhat amusing to say the least."

Like one or two others we took delight in filling in some of the gaps that the ''instructors'' had in their flawed knowledge concerning their own culture along with education techniques too.

No doubt the xenophobic passion of the Thai people was or has been sated by teaching of we we ignorant foreigners all about the great Thai culture which has been filched from many other nations and cultures in the past to produce the current xenophobic outlook that we see on a daily basis.

Frankly a course on how to sell pork pies in a mosque would have been more enlightening and useful too.

Edited January 15, 2012 by siampolee

[atyclb]

atyclb # 32.

May I ask how is a Thai Language, Culture and Ethics course pertinent/relevant to teaching English?

Like a good many others here I have attended the course, It had nor as far as I can see even now no pertient link to teaching using the English language as the medium of instruction in any way shape or form whether the subject material may be, or have been maths, science, social studies or any other subject material as may be taught using English as the medium of instruction in any way shape or form.

However the instructors ego's were indeed filled to overflowing by their opportunity to inform and instruct us all about the indoctrination techniques of the Thai education system.

The dancing and the asking for food instruction section was indeed most amusing and worthy of a first rate comedy sketch on Thai T.V.

I went to the course with an open mind and willing to learn, should really have known better than that though.

Sad to say " that even after some twenty two plus years of living in a Thai centered environment andt bringing up a mixed race family (Thai and English) along with living and teaching here I learnt nothing at all, It was all about that which I and others already knew. One of our fellow female teachers a Burmese lady who has been teaching here for some thirty years and is married to a Thai also had to endure the course as well. her comments were indeed somewhat amusing to say the least."

Like one or two others we took delight in filling in some of the gaps that the ''instructors'' had in their flawed knowledge concerning their own culture along with education techniques too.

No doubt the xenophobic passion of the Thai people was or has been sated by teaching of we we ignorant foreigners all about the great Thai culture which has been filched from many other nations and cultures in the past to produce the current xenophobic outlook that we see on a daily basis.

Frankly a course on how to sell pork pies in a mosque would have been more enlightening and useful too.

Frankly a course on how to sell pork pies in a mosque would have been more enlightening and useful too.

You said a mouthful !

I don't suppose there was a fee for that course?

[lonexpat]

Have to agree about the Thai culture course. And, I had to attend twice. On one occasion losing a weekend and a bank holiday. The highlight of course being a young black chap standing up and singing the Thai national anthem. I can still picture the look of horror on the Thai instuctors faces. And of course most of the aspiring teachers. Some of the role playing activitieswould have been more suitable to 6 year olds.

[siampolee]

atyclb # 34

I don't suppose there was a fee for that course?

The particular course I attended was paid for by my school, the fee being at that time 3,000 baht. I have heard though that the fee had risen to around 4,000baht , however I am unable to confirm if that is true or not.

Being a decent employer as we had to attend over part of one of our holiday periods we were given time off to compensate for time spent on the course as well as the fee being paid too

[Briggsy]

Other employers like language institutes may be able to help get a work permit. I am not sure but I think it is worth investigating if you require to stay here and work here.

[kaorop]

Why cant 'they' see those who have made lives here, for years, teaching, mostly

respected and loved by many in the community that they live in.(not me)

DOES FCKIN COUNT ! ! !

This has to be the stupidest analogy I've ever seen.

"I had been receiving free UBC for a year and a half at my condo; the other week the signal stopped. Since I had no right to the service in the first place I have no right to complain about it."

[dindong]

The course I attended opened with the head guy telling us all, he would show us many Thai customs etc

starting with, how to wee........................after being elbowed he changed it to wai.

After that it was all down hill.

[Dap]

I lack any formal qualifications

I think this just about says it all.

If you want to work as a teacher in Thailand you must be qualified, the fact that you were allowed to work with out qualifications was luck on your part and now it is over.

I had been receiving free UBC for a year and a half at my condo; the other week the signal stopped. Since I had no right to the service in the first place I have no right to complain about it.

If you want to teach in Thailand, get the proper credentials.

I once hired a western teacher with a Doctorate in Education that couldn't teach his way out of a wet paper bag, and I have seen people w/o (so called)"proper" credentials teach in a manner that far surpassed those with the "proper" education credentials. Please try not to be so pompous about your credentials. They don't always dictate the quality of capability.

[Dap]

Kilgore Trout. Charles Dickens didn"t have a degree in English literature, does that mean he couldn"t write? Not being a qualified English teacher obviously means there are many areas of teaching and child psychology which I don"t understand. As Skybluestu pointed out I was employed as an EFL teacher. Having done a tefl course and a Thai language course I was perfectly qualified at the time.

I will stick to my point; if you are not qualified to get a work permit then you shouldn't complain about not being granted one.

Kilgore Trout, I doubt anything said will soften your stance on un "credentialed" persons attempting to teach in Thailand. The fact remains, there are many that give their heart and souls to their students and in fact, help immeasurably with the education process here in Thailand. I would suggest that you applaud rather than disdain their heartfelt assistance to your educational crusade.

[Kilgore Trout]

Kilgore Trout. Charles Dickens didn"t have a degree in English literature, does that mean he couldn"t write? Not being a qualified English teacher obviously means there are many areas of teaching and child psychology which I don"t understand. As Skybluestu pointed out I was employed as an EFL teacher. Having done a tefl course and a Thai language course I was perfectly qualified at the time.

I will stick to my point; if you are not qualified to get a work permit then you shouldn't complain about not being granted one.

Kilgore Trout, I doubt anything said will soften your stance on un "credentialed" persons attempting to teach in Thailand. The fact remains, there are many that give their heart and souls to their students and in fact, help immeasurably with the education process here in Thailand. I would suggest that you applaud rather than disdain their heartfelt assistance to your educational crusade.

Of course there are those with natural ability who lack the proper credentials, what you are forgetting is how important having the proper background and training is.

Look at it from a parent's perspective; do you expect parents to accept the fact that the teacher teaching their children is not qualified?

Would you fly in an airplane with a pilot who doesn't have a licence but everyone "says" he is a great pilot; "don't worry about it; you will be fine"

Natural ability and aptitude is great but teachers also need to be properly trained, and of course there are those who are trained and don't do their job well; I'm not denying that.

For those of you who are good teachers but not qualified; you would be surprised at how proper training would improve your skills and if you are really dedicated then you will do what is necessary to get qualified.

Teaching is an art and a science; even if you are naturally good at the "art" you still need the knowledge and experience with regard to the "science."

Bottom line; if you want to teach in Thailand then you need to get qualified. If you don't; ride as long as you can but don't complain about not being allowed a work permit if by law you are not qualified to get one.

[lonexpat]

Kilgore Trout. Would you be so kind as to point out what you consisder to be complaining. As far as I"m aware there was no complaints, simply asking for others opinion on my suggestions.

[Kilgore Trout]

Kilgore Trout. Would you be so kind as to point out what you consisder to be complaining. As far as I"m aware there was no complaints, simply asking for others opinion on my suggestions.

What I consider to be complaining is, when asked for my opinion, and I respond with "get qualified" you argue with and insult me.

Maybe you are a great teacher; perhaps you are to the teaching world what "Charles Dickens" was to the literary world........whatever the case, if you want to teach get qualified. If you are serious about the profession, you won't regret it.

Good luck and all the best

[skybluestu]

Kilgore Trout. Would you be so kind as to point out what you consisder to be complaining. As far as I"m aware there was no complaints, simply asking for others opinion on my suggestions.

What I consider to be complaining is, when asked for my opinion, and I respond with "get qualified" you argue with and insult me.

Maybe you are a great teacher; perhaps you are to the teaching world what "Charles Dickens" was to the literary world........whatever the case, if you want to teach get qualified. If you are serious about the profession, you won't regret it.

Good luck and all the best

Mr Trout, can you please be more specific? What do you mean when you say 'get qualified'? Would you like the OP, and all the other foreign teachers in Thailand, to be a qualified teacher in their home country? If so that's not going to happen! I personally know, and have met others during my four years in Thailand, many teachers working in government schools and universities and I can count on one hand how many were qualified teachers from back home before they came to Thailand. The only 'qualified' teachers I know work at international schools and get paid much more than those at government or private schools as Thai government and private schools can't afford/won't pay the salary that 'qualified' teachers demand.

So that leaves us with everyone else, those who aren't 'qualified' but are teaching with a TEFL certificate. Many of those have at least one degree or higher and teaching experience and some have attended the nonsensical Thai Culture Course and jumped through the other hoops that the TCT have set out such as the almost-impossible-to-pass tests which are required to be granted a TL. I presume you refer to these requirements when you say 'get qualified'? If so then can you please explain how someone with a degree in David Beckham Studies, Star Trek, Queer Musicology or Ufology (all real!), has attended a useless & pointless course in Thai Culture and randomly chose the correct answers in TCT tests (with most questions not making any sense because they are that poorly written and often have two possible correct answers or none at all) would make a better teacher than someone that has two A-Levels (but no degree because they were able get a good job without one), has 30 years life/work experience including management and training, has lived in Thailand for eight years and has a Thai family (so therefore knows more than they'd learn on the Culture Course) and teaching experience?

Or how about we put a breathalyser outside each classroom to test the alcohol level of teachers? I've met many a teacher who is sat on a bar stool not long after finishing school every day and sits there til midnight then goes to school the next day stinking of booze. But that's another thread altogether.

What you and others sat on their high horse should realise is it is too important a subject and each case should be looked at individually. Obviously the logistics of doing that means it'll never happen but the TCT are cutting of their nose to spite their face by making it more and more difficult for foreigners to teach here. On one hand the Thai government are saying they want Thais English to improve before 2015 and on the other hand many excellent teachers are having to leave Thailand because they don't meet, or won't meet, the TCT requirements. Rant over.

[Murf]

What qualified teacher is going to teach in a government school, 60 kids per class, getting paid 30k a month?

Can anyone answer that question?

[skybluestu]

What qualified teacher is going to teach in a government school, 60 kids per class, getting paid 30k a month?

Can anyone answer that question?

There are some but they are rarer than chicken's teeth! So the next best thing is a native speaker that wants to teach, enjoys teaching, cares about their students, is good at teaching and getting better with experience but the TCT are forcing many of these teachers out of Thailand.

[Kilgore Trout]

Mr Trout, can you please be more specific? What do you mean when you say 'get qualified'? Would you like the OP, and all the other foreign teachers in Thailand, to be a qualified teacher in their home country?

What I mean is that you should have the proper credentials to receive a work permit as per the governing body issuing them. I am under the impression that only the int. schools require you to be a teacher in your home country, so if you don't work in one then no, you don't need western teaching credentials. I don't know what the criteria is to teach in a Thai school, or govt school etc., but whatever it is, if you want to teach there then you should have the necessary documents.

I am under the impression that waivers are given so that the teacher has time to get the necessary credentials or do the coursework etc., not a permanent lifting of requirements.

[Scott]

Let's try and stay on the topic.

We can argue the point, but the TC is probably here to stay and like a lot of bureaucratic agencies, it's not likely to make things easier. There job is (in theory) to insure a certain standard in the field of education. I don't know that they are overly concerned about the economics or number of teachers.

In the meantime, the best thing that most people can do who wish to remain here and work here in teaching is to start getting themselves qualified. If that means weekend classes or on-line courses, then that is what you should be doing.

If you have a degree, you need to 'upgrade' to the credits necessary for an education major. If not, then there is a lot longer period of time required.

[geriatrickid]

Kilgore Trout. Charles Dickens didn"t have a degree in English literature, does that mean he couldn"t write? Not being a qualified English teacher obviously means there are many areas of teaching and child psychology which I don"t understand. As Skybluestu pointed out I was employed as an EFL teacher. Having done a tefl course and a Thai language course I was perfectly qualified at the time.

Dickens's approach to writing was one of weekly or monthly instalments. He had the benefit of a number of talented editors who would proof read, offer suggestions and in some cases modify his writing. The most famous of the editors was John Forster. Mr. Forster is famous for his time as secretary to the Lunacy Commission and,then as Commissioner in Lunacy.

The reference to lunancy is appropriate with the tangent on Dickens. also I finally get to make mention of this piece of trivia that I have been carrying around for decades. As a tip to english teachers, this should bring a laugh to a class.

[lonexpat]

I should have said Stephen King.

[LecheHombre]

...

Of course there are those with natural ability who lack the proper credentials, what you are forgetting is how important having the proper background and training is.

Look at it from a parent's perspective; do you expect parents to accept the fact that the teacher teaching their children is not qualified?

Would you fly in an airplane with a pilot who doesn't have a licence but everyone "says" he is a great pilot; "don't worry about it; you will be fine"

Natural ability and aptitude is great but teachers also need to be properly trained, and of course there are those who are trained and don't do their job well; I'm not denying that.

For those of you who are good teachers but not qualified; you would be surprised at how proper training would improve your skills and if you are really dedicated then you will do what is necessary to get qualified.

Teaching is an art and a science; even if you are naturally good at the "art" you still need the knowledge and experience with regard to the "science."

Bottom line; if you want to teach in Thailand then you need to get qualified. If you don't; ride as long as you can but don't complain about not being allowed a work permit if by law you are not qualified to get one.

I understand where you are coming from, but your pilot analogy is flawed. To convert it into the Thai situation, it should be altered as follows:

You are in a commercial jet where the pilot and copilot have both suddenly died of heart attacks. For now your altitude is stable but going steadily towards auguring into the ground. The flight attendant makes an announcement: "is anyone here a commercial pilot?!" Out of the passengers, nobody stands up. From there, the flight attendant needs to rethink her standards, and ask "is anyone here a civilian pilot?", or "has anyone ever taken any flight lessons whatsoever?", on down to "has anyone ever played a flight simulator game"?

Maybe Bangkok and some of the more populated and popular provinces can afford to demand commercial pilots / 100% to-the-letter qualified teachers. A whole bunch of other places here cannot afford to be so picky. In many cases, a motivated yet completely "unqualified" and/or unexperienced foreigner can do a fine job, particularly if they are paired with a qualified and motivated Thai teacher to show them the ropes, set lesson plans, etc.

What will the de-facto result of the TCT's rules actually pan out to be, assuming that they are fully enforced? First, the great majority of schools in moderate or rural provinces will end up with NO foreign teachers. Just like your average rural country school now. Maybe that is OK, but I tend to think that such a result wouldn't improve the overall quality of English education here, quite likely the opposite.

Second, for any school that DOES manage to keep some foreign teachers other than an international school or full English Program school, their foreign teaching staff will be made up entirely of revolving-door backpackers and converted tourists. Turnover rates are pretty massive now, but enforcing this will push it higher still. The folks like the OP and myself who sort of fall into teaching but then "catch the bug" and actually take it pretty seriously and try to do a good job will be kicked out in favor of backpackers on a fresh "temporary" TL. I've met a lot of fresh new 1st year foreign teachers in my 5 years here. Some of them pan out and turn into good quality, motivated teachers -- but a whole lot are here for 1 year of drinking, chasing skirts, and hungover "teaching" before moving on to their next destination. I can fully understand wanting to limit the presence and impact of that second group on the education system here, but I think that these TCT rules are unfortunately going to have the opposite effect over time.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I bow to the wisdom of those that have been here longer than I have and/or have a real background in teaching (I do have a Bachelor's Degree, but it is in Computer Science), but I feel like the TCT rules here are likely going to make things worse before they get better. Just my two cents.

[Kilgore Trout]

What will the de-facto result of the TCT's rules actually pan out to be, assuming that they are fully enforced? First, the great majority of schools in moderate or rural provinces will end up with NO foreign teachers. Just like your average rural country school now. Maybe that is OK, but I tend to think that such a result wouldn't improve the overall quality of English education here, quite likely the opposite.

Second, for any school that DOES manage to keep some foreign teachers other than an international school or full English Program school, their foreign teaching staff will be made up entirely of revolving-door backpackers and converted tourists. Turnover rates are pretty massive now, but enforcing this will push it higher still. The folks like the OP and myself who sort of fall into teaching but then "catch the bug" and actually take it pretty seriously and try to do a good job will be kicked out in favor of backpackers on a fresh "temporary" TL. I've met a lot of fresh new 1st year foreign teachers in my 5 years here. Some of them pan out and turn into good quality, motivated teachers -- but a whole lot are here for 1 year of drinking, chasing skirts, and hungover "teaching" before moving on to their next destination. I can fully understand wanting to limit the presence and impact of that second group on the education system here, but I think that these TCT rules are unfortunately going to have the opposite effect over time.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I bow to the wisdom of those that have been here longer than I have and/or have a real background in teaching (I do have a Bachelor's Degree, but it is in Computer Science), but I feel like the TCT rules here are likely going to make things worse before they get better. Just my two cents.

I agree with you milkboy, but thats Thailand. It has always seemed to me that the rules in Thailand are set up and unenforced so that they can arbitrarily enforce them to get rid of people they don't like.

I think though, that teaching without proper credentials, or teaching in most Thai schools for that matter, is something you can only do for so long.....if you are in it for the long run then I think there's no question; you have to find a way to get qualified and get stable job in a good work environment.

I started out with just a ba teaching in a Thai school, then did the language school thing, eventually taking the coursework to get qualified and went back to my home country for a couple of years for the practicum, testing and experience etc. It was tough and I busted my arse doing it, but it was worth it in the end.

Bottom line is; "it is what it is."

Edited January 23, 2012 by Kilgore Trout

[LecheHombre]

You are correct, it is what it is. Or to elude to your forum name, perhaps I should say "...so it goes".

To my own personal standards, I consider myself qualified to teach. I say that with essentially no caveats, but if I allow some minor rationalization in addition then I am 99% certain that if I were to be kicked out of the teaching profession here I would not be replaced by someone any more qualified than myself... Those that are more qualified are either going to want more money (fair enough) or a level of standards that just isn't present here. I've known a few fully-qualified people with M.Ed degrees here, and in my experience they get burnt out with the poor standards and wacky situations faster than the "motivated amatuers". YMMV, and that isn't to take away anything from the good, patient, fully qualified people here or those like yourself that went back home to get fully legit teaching degree -- /salute to you by the way, I think that is admirable.

We'll see what happens!