Pump Running Times

[AllanB]

Who decides on the optimum running times of a pool pump and what criterion do they use?

I know a guy who runs his pump for an hour a day, or when he swimming and he has crystal clear water, so I do the same, which costs me 5-10 baht a day and my water is great, so far.

I hear people on this forum advocating 8 hours! a day, using huge amounts of power and wondered how they arrived at that figure? There must be some science involved here, not just "experience" and hear say.

[katabeachbum]

pools water should IMHO be filtered 1-2 times a day, so it depends on your amount of water and your pump/filtrations capacity

no matter pump capacity its no way to remove all surface debris in an hour

just replaced a 3 yo pump with a new one, and despite same rating (1500watt) its pumping capacity is a huge improvement, so I will reduce from 3 + 4 hours a day, to 2 x 2,5 hours initially, and see how it works

[AllanB]

pools water should IMHO be filtered 1-2 times a day, so it depends on your amount of water and your pump/filtrations capacity

no matter pump capacity its no way to remove all surface debris in an hour

just replaced a 3 yo pump with a new one, and despite same rating (1500watt) its pumping capacity is a huge improvement, so I will reduce from 3 + 4 hours a day, to 2 x 2,5 hours initially, and see how it works

Now that is very fair answer, but it seems these figures are handed down from one experienced person to another. The big problem with that is that there are so many variables,

1. The pool size and pump size, even the pool shape.

2. The pool and hardware used.

3. The method and effectiveness of filtration.

4. It's usage.

5. The climatic conditions,

6. How much care and attention it has received.

7. the chemical content of the water and not just PH and chlorine levels.

I originally ran my pump for 2.5 hours a day to achieve a water change a day and am trying to reduce it. It seems that IMHO, should be TBOTSS (to be on the safe side) and that is okay, but expensive and possibly unnecessary, in that there may be another way.

I use a fine net to clean the water surface, leaves and insects, so I am using manual labour to save electricity.

Although I have a cheap pump, the given flow rate of 15m3/hr is actually being delivered to the pool. So when you look at pump efficiency, you must also consider system efficiency, which is much more important than the slight gains you may get through clever engineering. When I was selecting a pump for my pool, I noticed that a larger pump didn't give me a proportional higher flow rate to it's power consumption. Meaning I was better off with a smaller pump, running for a little longer each day and that without considering the negative effects of pushing more water through a 2" pipe.

The filtering system too, I have been unable to measure the DP across my 50 micron bag filter because it is so low, but an equivalent sand filter is likely to cause a loss of around 10psi, which makes a big difference to running costs.

Anyway I would be interested to read about the results of your reduced run times. Do you know what the "actual" deliveries of the two pumps are, rather than their ratings? Or are there ratings both based upon the same DPs, or heads?

[katabeachbum]

2 inch piping with outlet side having only 3 x 45 degree bends.

emaux 650 sand filter

no idea what the actual flow is, but surface debris goes the 11 meters from outlet (2 x 1 1/2 inch) to skimmer at least at double speed/half the time

I use chlorine tablets in skimmer, so how many days they need to dissolve tells me flow in a day compared to old pump

while surface debris like leaves and insects can be picked up by hand, all the small dust remains, so does oil, sunlotion, sweat, and I want it to go to skimmer/filter

5 hours a day will cost 900 baht/month in electricty (4baht/kwh), down 360 baht/month from previous pump

[AllanB]

2 inch piping with outlet side having only 3 x 45 degree bends.

emaux 650 sand filter

no idea what the actual flow is, but surface debris goes the 11 meters from outlet (2 x 1 1/2 inch) to skimmer at least at double speed/half the time

I use chlorine tablets in skimmer, so how many days they need to dissolve tells me flow in a day compared to old pump

while surface debris like leaves and insects can be picked up by hand, all the small dust remains, so does oil, sunlotion, sweat, and I want it to go to skimmer/filter

5 hours a day will cost 900 baht/month in electricty (4baht/kwh), down 360 baht/month from previous pump

If you want a skimmer filter, a bag could be the answer, but how big is your skimmer?

As you have gathered I think the bag filter is the future for pools and want to find a company to make an in-line one. Fitted in the suction line just line a pump strainer, you them put in whatever bag you need. I would imagine you could remove all this stuff you mentioned just by selecting the appropriate pore size. Then throw away the sand filter and lengthen your pump life.

[katabeachbum]

2 inch piping with outlet side having only 3 x 45 degree bends.

emaux 650 sand filter

no idea what the actual flow is, but surface debris goes the 11 meters from outlet (2 x 1 1/2 inch) to skimmer at least at double speed/half the time

I use chlorine tablets in skimmer, so how many days they need to dissolve tells me flow in a day compared to old pump

while surface debris like leaves and insects can be picked up by hand, all the small dust remains, so does oil, sunlotion, sweat, and I want it to go to skimmer/filter

5 hours a day will cost 900 baht/month in electricty (4baht/kwh), down 360 baht/month from previous pump

If you want a skimmer filter, a bag could be the answer, but how big is your skimmer?

As you have gathered I think the bag filter is the future for pools and want to find a company to make an in-line one. Fitted in the suction line just line a pump strainer, you them put in whatever bag you need. I would imagine you could remove all this stuff you mentioned just by selecting the appropriate pore size. Then throw away the sand filter and lengthen your pump life.

I own 2 pools with bag filters, and 2 pools with sand filter, and sand filter is defo my favorite

and the skimmer is for skimmering and a basket collecting leaves

[AllanB]

2 inch piping with outlet side having only 3 x 45 degree bends.

emaux 650 sand filter

no idea what the actual flow is, but surface debris goes the 11 meters from outlet (2 x 1 1/2 inch) to skimmer at least at double speed/half the time

I use chlorine tablets in skimmer, so how many days they need to dissolve tells me flow in a day compared to old pump

while surface debris like leaves and insects can be picked up by hand, all the small dust remains, so does oil, sunlotion, sweat, and I want it to go to skimmer/filter

5 hours a day will cost 900 baht/month in electricty (4baht/kwh), down 360 baht/month from previous pump

If you want a skimmer filter, a bag could be the answer, but how big is your skimmer?

As you have gathered I think the bag filter is the future for pools and want to find a company to make an in-line one. Fitted in the suction line just line a pump strainer, you them put in whatever bag you need. I would imagine you could remove all this stuff you mentioned just by selecting the appropriate pore size. Then throw away the sand filter and lengthen your pump life.

I own 2 pools with bag filters, and 2 pools with sand filter, and sand filter is defo my favorite

and the skimmer is for skimmering and a basket collecting leaves

You don't say why you prefer the ones with sand filters, or indeed why you have 4 swimming pools. Modesty forbids?

Ordinarily the skimmer is used for catching leaves, but if it were big enough a bag could be fitted. In many pools that employ bag filtration, the bag is fitted in the skimmer housing.

[katabeachbum]

2 inch piping with outlet side having only 3 x 45 degree bends.

emaux 650 sand filter

no idea what the actual flow is, but surface debris goes the 11 meters from outlet (2 x 1 1/2 inch) to skimmer at least at double speed/half the time

I use chlorine tablets in skimmer, so how many days they need to dissolve tells me flow in a day compared to old pump

while surface debris like leaves and insects can be picked up by hand, all the small dust remains, so does oil, sunlotion, sweat, and I want it to go to skimmer/filter

5 hours a day will cost 900 baht/month in electricty (4baht/kwh), down 360 baht/month from previous pump

If you want a skimmer filter, a bag could be the answer, but how big is your skimmer?

As you have gathered I think the bag filter is the future for pools and want to find a company to make an in-line one. Fitted in the suction line just line a pump strainer, you them put in whatever bag you need. I would imagine you could remove all this stuff you mentioned just by selecting the appropriate pore size. Then throw away the sand filter and lengthen your pump life.

I own 2 pools with bag filters, and 2 pools with sand filter, and sand filter is defo my favorite

and the skimmer is for skimmering and a basket collecting leaves

You don't say why you prefer the ones with sand filters, or indeed why you have 4 swimming pools. Modesty forbids?

Ordinarily the skimmer is used for catching leaves, but if it were big enough a bag could be fitted. In many pools that employ bag filtration, the bag is fitted in the skimmer housing.

I own 4 pool villas, thus 4 pools

sandfilters ease of use, 10 minutes a week to clean filter simply by switching some valves and grey water goes to drain. No messing around with hosing, no splash on user, no grey water to dispose of

sandfilters pressure gauge tells if its clogged up and needs cleaning in addition to scheduled cleaning, which has never happend since 2007

logistic, no parts needed replacing

parts costs, no sandfilterparts to replace

and yes my bag filters are in a fiberglass housing below the skimmer, and I have no plans to install it again in future pools

[katabeachbum]

2 inch piping with outlet side having only 3 x 45 degree bends.

emaux 650 sand filter

no idea what the actual flow is, but surface debris goes the 11 meters from outlet (2 x 1 1/2 inch) to skimmer at least at double speed/half the time

I use chlorine tablets in skimmer, so how many days they need to dissolve tells me flow in a day compared to old pump

while surface debris like leaves and insects can be picked up by hand, all the small dust remains, so does oil, sunlotion, sweat, and I want it to go to skimmer/filter

5 hours a day will cost 900 baht/month in electricty (4baht/kwh), down 360 baht/month from previous pump

update on this, I have just reduced running time to 2 x 2hours, as 2 x 2,5 hours dissolved the chlorine tablet to quickly.

With the new pump, all surface debris is gone in less than 2 hours, and I would assume circulation at 4 hours/day is 1,5-2 times

compared to old Emaux 1500 watt pump, I know use half the electicity for same amount water circulated and filtered through the old sandfilter.

ASTRAL 1500watt, supplied and installed by Valentine in Phuket

[julemanden]

pools water should IMHO be filtered 1-2 times a day, so it depends on your amount of water and your pump/filtrations capacity

no matter pump capacity its no way to remove all surface debris in an hour

just replaced a 3 yo pump with a new one, and despite same rating (1500watt) its pumping capacity is a huge improvement, so I will reduce from 3 + 4 hours a day, to 2 x 2,5 hours initially, and see how it works

I have a over flood/skimmer system installed around my pool and it takes less than 10 min to get a clean surface !all the debris's flush into the gutter

[AllanB]

Getting back to original question. I talked to a guy who used to build pools in Spain and he advocates running the pump only when the pool is in use, if it is not used he runs it for 1 hour/day. But they don't have overflow designs, which attract much more dirt and don't use sand filters, which don't clean as well. This means 80% savings in electricity over the 6 hours recommended here, so I have been doing the same for the past 7 weeks and the results so far are perfect.

The water is crystal clear, pool clean and all the chemical levels close to ideal, iron gone, with only chlorine used. That said, I do have a great filtration system, which removes everything in one go, plus a roof over the pool and of course, the weather is still cool.

But he said I shouldn't have a problem, so we shall see.

My friend runs a veterinary research lab in the UK and is going to fix me up with some test equipment, to do a proper job analysing the water. But my current system of Chlorination with a tablet in the filter bag should mean I will have no problems and I put one in the vacuum bag too.

[Naam]

The water is crystal clear, pool clean and all the chemical levels close to ideal, iron gone, with only chlorine used. That said, I do have a great filtration system, which removes everything in one go, plus a roof over the pool and of course, the weather is still cool.

what your filtration system does not remove and what can't be seen is a variety of bacteria which might exist even if the water is crystal clear.

[WarpSpeed]

2 inch piping with outlet side having only 3 x 45 degree bends.

emaux 650 sand filter

no idea what the actual flow is, but surface debris goes the 11 meters from outlet (2 x 1 1/2 inch) to skimmer at least at double speed/half the time

I use chlorine tablets in skimmer, so how many days they need to dissolve tells me flow in a day compared to old pump

while surface debris like leaves and insects can be picked up by hand, all the small dust remains, so does oil, sunlotion, sweat, and I want it to go to skimmer/filter

5 hours a day will cost 900 baht/month in electricty (4baht/kwh), down 360 baht/month from previous pump

You're killing your new pump sucking that Cl2 directly into the trap. Get a floater of some sort or plan on replacing it in short order..

When your pump is off the tab continues to dissolve so when it turns on it gets a nice strong dose of Cl2 every time and it also makes the pipe, filter and skimmer plastic brittle so you're in for a fractured pipe, filter or skimmer in the near future as well..

[WarpSpeed]

The water is crystal clear, pool clean and all the chemical levels close to ideal, iron gone, with only chlorine used. That said, I do have a great filtration system, which removes everything in one go, plus a roof over the pool and of course, the weather is still cool.

what your filtration system does not remove and what can't be seen is a variety of bacteria which might exist even if the water is crystal clear.

Yep, people have been drinking water for years they thought was safe and clean because it was "crystal clear" but then found out it was either full of harmful chemicals that made them ill or other nasties such as bacteria..

[WarpSpeed]

But my current system of Chlorination with a tablet in the filter bag should mean I will have no problems and I put one in the vacuum bag too.

Actually you're in for big problems if you keep up this practice..

[WarpSpeed]

2 inch piping with outlet side having only 3 x 45 degree bends.

emaux 650 sand filter

no idea what the actual flow is, but surface debris goes the 11 meters from outlet (2 x 1 1/2 inch) to skimmer at least at double speed/half the time

I use chlorine tablets in skimmer, so how many days they need to dissolve tells me flow in a day compared to old pump

while surface debris like leaves and insects can be picked up by hand, all the small dust remains, so does oil, sunlotion, sweat, and I want it to go to skimmer/filter

5 hours a day will cost 900 baht/month in electricty (4baht/kwh), down 360 baht/month from previous pump

update on this, I have just reduced running time to 2 x 2hours, as 2 x 2,5 hours dissolved the chlorine tablet to quickly.

With the new pump, all surface debris is gone in less than 2 hours, and I would assume circulation at 4 hours/day is 1,5-2 times

compared to old Emaux 1500 watt pump, I know use half the electicity for same amount water circulated and filtered through the old sandfilter.

ASTRAL 1500watt, supplied and installed by Valentine in Phuket

I hate to say it but "wattage" has very little to do with the pumps quality or pumping capacity. It's the Hp rating and the water volume (measured in head) being pumped, I.E. low, moderate or high head for example. That is determined more by the pumps internal design and impeller specifications and very little to do with actual Hp as several 1.0Hp motors of same manufacturer for example can all pump different volumes of water on different pump brands.

And just so you know Emaux which is Chinese junk is at the bottom of that scale and Astral is somewhere around the middle, Sta-rite and Hayward are both around the top of the scale also in durability..

[WarpSpeed]

2 inch piping with outlet side having only 3 x 45 degree bends.

emaux 650 sand filter

no idea what the actual flow is, but surface debris goes the 11 meters from outlet (2 x 1 1/2 inch) to skimmer at least at double speed/half the time

I use chlorine tablets in skimmer, so how many days they need to dissolve tells me flow in a day compared to old pump

while surface debris like leaves and insects can be picked up by hand, all the small dust remains, so does oil, sunlotion, sweat, and I want it to go to skimmer/filter

5 hours a day will cost 900 baht/month in electricty (4baht/kwh), down 360 baht/month from previous pump

If you want a skimmer filter, a bag could be the answer, but how big is your skimmer?

As you have gathered I think the bag filter is the future for pools and want to find a company to make an in-line one. Fitted in the suction line just line a pump strainer, you them put in whatever bag you need. I would imagine you could remove all this stuff you mentioned just by selecting the appropriate pore size. Then throw away the sand filter and lengthen your pump life.

I own 2 pools with bag filters, and 2 pools with sand filter, and sand filter is defo my favorite

and the skimmer is for skimmering and a basket collecting leaves

You don't say why you prefer the ones with sand filters, or indeed why you have 4 swimming pools. Modesty forbids?

Ordinarily the skimmer is used for catching leaves, but if it were big enough a bag could be fitted. In many pools that employ bag filtration, the bag is fitted in the skimmer housing.

Like I said before 1950's technology, not new you seem to think, but old..

[WarpSpeed]

2 inch piping with outlet side having only 3 x 45 degree bends.

emaux 650 sand filter

no idea what the actual flow is, but surface debris goes the 11 meters from outlet (2 x 1 1/2 inch) to skimmer at least at double speed/half the time

I use chlorine tablets in skimmer, so how many days they need to dissolve tells me flow in a day compared to old pump

while surface debris like leaves and insects can be picked up by hand, all the small dust remains, so does oil, sunlotion, sweat, and I want it to go to skimmer/filter

5 hours a day will cost 900 baht/month in electricty (4baht/kwh), down 360 baht/month from previous pump

If you want a skimmer filter, a bag could be the answer, but how big is your skimmer?

As you have gathered I think the bag filter is the future for pools and want to find a company to make an in-line one. Fitted in the suction line just line a pump strainer, you them put in whatever bag you need. I would imagine you could remove all this stuff you mentioned just by selecting the appropriate pore size. Then throw away the sand filter and lengthen your pump life.

There is so many problems with this I don't even know where to begin.. An inline bag filter will burn out your pump more often then not. It's volume is not nearly enough for that purpose given the water flow rate and for that matter will eventually not only run the pump dry but will eventually get sucked directly into the pump and ruin it without question..

[AllanB]

2 inch piping with outlet side having only 3 x 45 degree bends.

emaux 650 sand filter

no idea what the actual flow is, but surface debris goes the 11 meters from outlet (2 x 1 1/2 inch) to skimmer at least at double speed/half the time

I use chlorine tablets in skimmer, so how many days they need to dissolve tells me flow in a day compared to old pump

while surface debris like leaves and insects can be picked up by hand, all the small dust remains, so does oil, sunlotion, sweat, and I want it to go to skimmer/filter

5 hours a day will cost 900 baht/month in electricty (4baht/kwh), down 360 baht/month from previous pump

If you want a skimmer filter, a bag could be the answer, but how big is your skimmer?

As you have gathered I think the bag filter is the future for pools and want to find a company to make an in-line one. Fitted in the suction line just line a pump strainer, you them put in whatever bag you need. I would imagine you could remove all this stuff you mentioned just by selecting the appropriate pore size. Then throw away the sand filter and lengthen your pump life.

There is so many problems with this I don't even know where to begin.. An inline bag filter will burn out your pump more often then not. It's volume is not nearly enough for that purpose given the water flow rate and for that matter will eventually not only run the pump dry but will eventually get sucked directly into the pump and ruin it without question..

What a load on nonsense...............

1. It depends on how big the filter is, use a thimble size on a 5hp pump you may be right.

2. It also depends on the pore size.

3. It also depends on the pump flow-rate.

The pressure drop across my bag filter is so small it cannot be measured and even when very dirty and needs washing out ( because I can see it is dirty) the DP is the same, virtually zero. The entire pump water can fall through the filter and the bag will not fill up, it merely passes straight through unabated.

Indeed that is how they work in a skimmer box installation, used by many pool manufacturers.

Contrast that with a sand filter which already loads the pump by 10 psi and as it becomes clogged adds another 10 psi or more. That is the inequivalent of pumping against a 46 foot head of water, just to push it through the filter.

So what are these other problems you can't mention?

[WarpSpeed]

2 inch piping with outlet side having only 3 x 45 degree bends.

emaux 650 sand filter

no idea what the actual flow is, but surface debris goes the 11 meters from outlet (2 x 1 1/2 inch) to skimmer at least at double speed/half the time

I use chlorine tablets in skimmer, so how many days they need to dissolve tells me flow in a day compared to old pump

while surface debris like leaves and insects can be picked up by hand, all the small dust remains, so does oil, sunlotion, sweat, and I want it to go to skimmer/filter

5 hours a day will cost 900 baht/month in electricty (4baht/kwh), down 360 baht/month from previous pump

If you want a skimmer filter, a bag could be the answer, but how big is your skimmer?

As you have gathered I think the bag filter is the future for pools and want to find a company to make an in-line one. Fitted in the suction line just line a pump strainer, you them put in whatever bag you need. I would imagine you could remove all this stuff you mentioned just by selecting the appropriate pore size. Then throw away the sand filter and lengthen your pump life.

There is so many problems with this I don't even know where to begin.. An inline bag filter will burn out your pump more often then not. It's volume is not nearly enough for that purpose given the water flow rate and for that matter will eventually not only run the pump dry but will eventually get sucked directly into the pump and ruin it without question..

What a load on nonsense...............

1. It depends on how big the filter is, use a thimble size on a 5hp pump you may be right.

2. It also depends on the pore size.

3. It also depends on the pump flow-rate.

The pressure drop across my bag filter is so small it cannot be measured and even when very dirty and needs washing out ( because I can see it is dirty) the DP is the same, virtually zero. The entire pump water can fall through the filter and the bag will not fill up, it merely passes straight through unabated.

Indeed that is how they work in a skimmer box installation, used by many pool manufacturers.

Contrast that with a sand filter which already loads the pump by 10 psi and as it becomes clogged adds another 10 psi or more. That is the inequivalent of pumping against a 46 foot head of water, just to push it through the filter.

So what are these other problems you can't mention?

Ok well like you said you "don't have 25 years experience" and you don't know when to listen and learn from someone who does either.. Good luck with your grade "A" invention, I'm not into debating it, it matters not to me.......

By the way keep on using those tabs in your skimmer too and while you may mock someone who has that amount of experience it takes time for the damage to occur as it's a slow process but years of diagnosis and repairs is the only way one discovers these results, that goes for your grade "A" invention as well....

Or conversely you can mock and argue........ With yourself..................

[AllanB]

WarpSpeed said

Ok well like you said you "don't have 25 years experience" and you don't know when to listen and learn from someone who does either.. Good luck with your grade "A" invention, I'm not into debating it, it matters not to me.......

By the way keep on using those tabs in your skimmer too and while you may mock someone who has that amount of experience it takes time for the damage to occur as it's a slow process but years of diagnosis and repairs is the only way one discovers these results, that goes for your grade "A" invention as well....

Or conversely you can mock and argue........ With yourself..................

It seems you were debating the issue with me and without much competence, may I say, so if you are going to make such scathing criticism of someone's idea, you should at least be sure of your facts. Otherwise it casts doubt of your claimed level of expertise.

I don't quite understand what you mean by "my grade A invention" but assume that you mean that I had invented bag filters for pools. With all these years of experience you should know that other pool companies use this type of filter, plus they are used extensively in many other industries. The fact is they do work better and cost much less and this is very easy to prove, by simply fitting one to the discharge of a sand filtered pool.

Now the question of where to locate the chlorine tablets, this time your argument has some validity and the reason these forums can be useful. Again other companies advocate fitting them in the skimmer box, although mine are in the trough, since my pool is an infinity design. But the chlorine concentration is very high in the filter and going into the pump, which over time could do some damage. So I have been considering and have tried using a dispenser within the pool itself, but without any flow, the rate of chlorine discharge is very low. So this is an issue for me.

[AllanB]

Ignoring these obtuse attacks from Mr WarpSpeed, the purpose of this thread was to talk about daily pump run times and the resultant pool running costs. I know electricity is cheap here, but that doesn't mean we should waste it. There are people buying solar powered equipment here, so someone must be interested and these differing pump running times, which amount to much bigger saving, with no capital outlay.

There is always more than one way of doing things, new ideas that come along, some good, some not so good and some that only work better is some places/applications than others.

Surely we are all open minded people and I can assure you that none of the ideas I have talked about, on this or any other thread are my "inventions", they are already in use in the swimming pool industry.

I asked the question to find out why people are running pumps for such long periods, when others are running theirs for as much much less time, essentially saving 83% on their electricity bill..

If a gadget came on the market with an 83% saving it would sell like hot cakes, so please treat this as serious, none political matter.

[WarpSpeed]

WarpSpeed said

Ok well like you said you "don't have 25 years experience" and you don't know when to listen and learn from someone who does either.. Good luck with your grade "A" invention, I'm not into debating it, it matters not to me.......

By the way keep on using those tabs in your skimmer too and while you may mock someone who has that amount of experience it takes time for the damage to occur as it's a slow process but years of diagnosis and repairs is the only way one discovers these results, that goes for your grade "A" invention as well....

Or conversely you can mock and argue........ With yourself..................

It seems you were debating the issue with me and without much competence, may I say, so if you are going to make such scathing criticism of someone's idea, you should at least be sure of your facts. Otherwise it casts doubt of your claimed level of expertise.

I don't quite understand what you mean by "my grade A invention" but assume that you mean that I had invented bag filters for pools. With all these years of experience you should know that other pool companies use this type of filter, plus they are used extensively in many other industries. The fact is they do work better and cost much less and this is very easy to prove, by simply fitting one to the discharge of a sand filtered pool.

Now the question of where to locate the chlorine tablets, this time your argument has some validity and the reason these forums can be useful. Again other companies advocate fitting them in the skimmer box, although mine are in the trough, since my pool is an infinity design. But the chlorine concentration is very high in the filter and going into the pump, which over time could do some damage. So I have been considering and have tried using a dispenser within the pool itself, but without any flow, the rate of chlorine discharge is very low. So this is an issue for me.

There you have it then, I bow to your experience which is WHY I don't post much in here..

[WarpSpeed]

Ignoring these obtuse attacks from Mr WarpSpeed, the purpose of this thread was to talk about daily pump run times and the resultant pool running costs. I know electricity is cheap here, but that doesn't mean we should waste it. There are people buying solar powered equipment here, so someone must be interested and these differing pump running times, which amount to much bigger saving, with no capital outlay.

There is always more than one way of doing things, new ideas that come along, some good, some not so good and some that only work better is some places/applications than others.

Surely we are all open minded people and I can assure you that none of the ideas I have talked about, on this or any other thread are my "inventions", they are already in use in the swimming pool industry.

I asked the question to find out why people are running pumps for such long periods, when others are running theirs for as much much less time, essentially saving 83% on their electricity bill..

If a gadget came on the market with an 83% saving it would sell like hot cakes, so please treat this as serious, none political matter.

Now you're calling me obtuse?? I think that word is over your head, how's that for irony? You're the epitome of obtuse with a singles pool experience and still touting 1940's technology and just because others may use them doesn't mean they are of any better qualifications either there's a thousand reasons, much of which are due to lack of exposure to new technologies and locations that don't require new technological updates..

Anyway I'll continue to give occasional advice to those others that have appreciated it and counter your rubbish explanations without debating you on it and let them decide who's providing them better and more updated solutions to their pool problems..

[AllanB]

Ignoring these obtuse attacks from Mr WarpSpeed, the purpose of this thread was to talk about daily pump run times and the resultant pool running costs. I know electricity is cheap here, but that doesn't mean we should waste it. There are people buying solar powered equipment here, so someone must be interested and these differing pump running times, which amount to much bigger saving, with no capital outlay.

There is always more than one way of doing things, new ideas that come along, some good, some not so good and some that only work better is some places/applications than others.

Surely we are all open minded people and I can assure you that none of the ideas I have talked about, on this or any other thread are my "inventions", they are already in use in the swimming pool industry.

I asked the question to find out why people are running pumps for such long periods, when others are running theirs for as much much less time, essentially saving 83% on their electricity bill..

If a gadget came on the market with an 83% saving it would sell like hot cakes, so please treat this as serious, none political matter.

Now you're calling me obtuse?? I think that word is over your head, how's that for irony? You're the epitome of obtuse with a singles pool experience and still touting 1940's technology and just because others may use them doesn't mean they are of any better qualifications either there's a thousand reasons, much of which are due to lack of exposure to new technologies and locations that don't require new technological updates..

Anyway I'll continue to give occasional advice to those others that have appreciated it and counter your rubbish explanations without debating you on it and let them decide who's providing them better and more updated solutions to their pool problems..

Well I am still waiting for a logical argument as to why you think bag filters don't work and I can I am not going to get it. You are just going keep on trying and impress everyone with you "years of experience", which has led you where? To advise people to dissolve the soles of their feet in acid or bleach to avoid slipping over and that old algae, pea soup density, pool water is perfectly safe place to be. Well maybe there are a few folks who have faith in that sort of "expert" advice, but not me, I think it is 100% obtuse. Ask Richard Wakeman, professor of Chemical Engineering, Specialising in Water Treatment, Loughborough University, England, which is where I get some of my advice.

I am really not interested in "Technology" for technology's sake. I still hang my clothes out on the line to dry in Thailand.... why?..it works well, just like bag filters, waste your money on tumble drying if you like.

Please let us return to the subject matter, I would like to work this out and know there are some smart people out there with views and open minds. I have talked to a few people via email and two guys in Khon Kaen, who run broadly similar times to me and wonder why the huge discrepancies. 1 hour versus 6+ hours.

It may result in some readers saving a bit of money, which can't be bad at this time.

[WarpSpeed]

Ignoring these obtuse attacks from Mr WarpSpeed, the purpose of this thread was to talk about daily pump run times and the resultant pool running costs. I know electricity is cheap here, but that doesn't mean we should waste it. There are people buying solar powered equipment here, so someone must be interested and these differing pump running times, which amount to much bigger saving, with no capital outlay.

There is always more than one way of doing things, new ideas that come along, some good, some not so good and some that only work better is some places/applications than others.

Surely we are all open minded people and I can assure you that none of the ideas I have talked about, on this or any other thread are my "inventions", they are already in use in the swimming pool industry.

I asked the question to find out why people are running pumps for such long periods, when others are running theirs for as much much less time, essentially saving 83% on their electricity bill..

If a gadget came on the market with an 83% saving it would sell like hot cakes, so please treat this as serious, none political matter.

Now you're calling me obtuse?? I think that word is over your head, how's that for irony? You're the epitome of obtuse with a singles pool experience and still touting 1940's technology and just because others may use them doesn't mean they are of any better qualifications either there's a thousand reasons, much of which are due to lack of exposure to new technologies and locations that don't require new technological updates..

Anyway I'll continue to give occasional advice to those others that have appreciated it and counter your rubbish explanations without debating you on it and let them decide who's providing them better and more updated solutions to their pool problems..

Well I am still waiting for a logical argument as to why you think bag filters don't work and I can I am not going to get it. You are just going keep on trying and impress everyone with you "years of experience", which has led you where? To advise people to dissolve the soles of their feet in acid or bleach to avoid slipping over and that old algae, pea soup density, pool water is perfectly safe place to be. Well maybe there are a few folks who have faith in that sort of "expert" advice, but not me, I think it is 100% obtuse. Ask Richard Wakeman, professor of Chemical Engineering, Specialising in Water Treatment, Loughborough University, England, which is where I get some of my advice.

I am really not interested in "Technology" for technology's sake. I still hang my clothes out on the line to dry in Thailand.... why?..it works well, just like bag filters, waste your money on tumble drying if you like.

Please let us return to the subject matter, I would like to work this out and know there are some smart people out there with views and open minds. I have talked to a few people via email and two guys in Khon Kaen, who run broadly similar times to me and wonder why the huge discrepancies. 1 hour versus 6+ hours.

It may result in some readers saving a bit of money, which can't be bad at this time.

I already told you I'm not wasting anymore time with you, search around for other pool threads I've posted advice on and see who the obtuse one is here.. I don't waste any time with people who refer to me as obtuse.. Not worthy of my time or effort...

[AllanB]

Ignoring these obtuse attacks from Mr WarpSpeed, the purpose of this thread was to talk about daily pump run times and the resultant pool running costs. I know electricity is cheap here, but that doesn't mean we should waste it. There are people buying solar powered equipment here, so someone must be interested and these differing pump running times, which amount to much bigger saving, with no capital outlay.

There is always more than one way of doing things, new ideas that come along, some good, some not so good and some that only work better is some places/applications than others.

Surely we are all open minded people and I can assure you that none of the ideas I have talked about, on this or any other thread are my "inventions", they are already in use in the swimming pool industry.

I asked the question to find out why people are running pumps for such long periods, when others are running theirs for as much much less time, essentially saving 83% on their electricity bill..

If a gadget came on the market with an 83% saving it would sell like hot cakes, so please treat this as serious, none political matter.

Now you're calling me obtuse?? I think that word is over your head, how's that for irony? You're the epitome of obtuse with a singles pool experience and still touting 1940's technology and just because others may use them doesn't mean they are of any better qualifications either there's a thousand reasons, much of which are due to lack of exposure to new technologies and locations that don't require new technological updates..

Anyway I'll continue to give occasional advice to those others that have appreciated it and counter your rubbish explanations without debating you on it and let them decide who's providing them better and more updated solutions to their pool problems..

Well I am still waiting for a logical argument as to why you think bag filters don't work and I can I am not going to get it. You are just going keep on trying and impress everyone with you "years of experience", which has led you where? To advise people to dissolve the soles of their feet in acid or bleach to avoid slipping over and that old algae, pea soup density, pool water is perfectly safe place to be. Well maybe there are a few folks who have faith in that sort of "expert" advice, but not me, I think it is 100% obtuse. Ask Richard Wakeman, professor of Chemical Engineering, Specialising in Water Treatment, Loughborough University, England, which is where I get some of my advice.

I am really not interested in "Technology" for technology's sake. I still hang my clothes out on the line to dry in Thailand.... why?..it works well, just like bag filters, waste your money on tumble drying if you like.

Please let us return to the subject matter, I would like to work this out and know there are some smart people out there with views and open minds. I have talked to a few people via email and two guys in Khon Kaen, who run broadly similar times to me and wonder why the huge discrepancies. 1 hour versus 6+ hours.

It may result in some readers saving a bit of money, which can't be bad at this time.

I already told you I'm not wasting anymore time with you, search around for other pool threads I've posted advice on and see who the obtuse one is here.. I don't waste any time with people who refer to me as obtuse.. Not worthy of my time or effort...

So we can take that as a no then, you don't have an answer?

With regard to the "obtuse" comment, that was in answer to some ill thought out advice you were giving, that was potentially highly dangerous. Wading in acid and bleach was quite obviously so, even comical, but referring to old algae as perfectly safe was perhaps not. So for those people inclined to believe that piece of "expert advice" I will give you some idea of what the dangers could be.

Pool water with that amount of algae in it is there because of insufficient sanitation, meaning it is dirty, so there will be other things growing there too and the level of chlorine will be low, or zero. Therefore the kind of things we are talking about are (and these are only the potentially lethal ones) bacteria such as Legionella phneumophila and Psuedomonas aeruginosa and parasites such as Cryptosporidium, Giardia lamlia and E-coli. These organisms are found in pools around the world, in the tropics they proliferate very quickly and feed on the things found in dirty water.

So to call your comments "obtuse" is perhaps a gross understatement.

[Naam]

I am really not interested in "Technology" for technology's sake. I still hang my clothes out on the line to dry in Thailand.... why?..it works well, just like bag filters, waste your money on tumble drying if you like.

some of your points make good sense AllanB, others are questionable and the one mentioned above just proves that you have no idea what difference it makes lying on a tumble dried bed sheet, using a tumble dried towel or wearing tumble dried underwear as opposed to those dried in the sun.

"wasting" money means quite often enjoying the many advantages money can buy (assuming one has it). some people waste money drinking wine instead of water, eating steak or king prawns instead of rice or potatoes, living in a house instead of a thatched hut, aircondition their dwellings instead of sweating or driving a car instead of a Honda Wave.

[Naam]

back to pump running times. i run my pool pump in Thailand since several years 1½ hrs/day, keeping CL level @ 1ppm and pH @ 6.8 (lower than the usual suggested 7.2). however, i wouldn't advise anybody else on pump running times because i'm dàmn sure his pool and the factors affecting the water quality differ from mine. there is no "size that fits all". ambient temperature, water temperature, sun radiation, dirt, debris and potential bacterial development (to name a few) are of individual nature.

i've built in Thailand a home, nearly identical to the one i built in Florida. both pools enclosed and roofed, no direct sun, slightly different size. running my pool in Florida (Central Florida with 4-5 months moderate climate) the same way i run the pool in Thailand would have caused my pool water to turn green like pea soup within a few days or ugly mustard algae developing. no way to run the pump less than 6 hours and keeping CL @ 3ppm.

[WarpSpeed]

back to pump running times. i run my pool pump in Thailand since several years 1½ hrs/day, keeping CL level @ 1ppm and pH @ 6.8 (lower than the usual suggested 7.2). however, i wouldn't advise anybody else on pump running times because i'm dàmn sure his pool and the factors affecting the water quality differ from mine. there is no "size that fits all". ambient temperature, water temperature, sun radiation, dirt, debris and potential bacterial development (to name a few) are of individual nature.

i've built in Thailand a home, nearly identical to the one i built in Florida. both pools enclosed and roofed, no direct sun, slightly different size. running my pool in Florida (Central Florida with 4-5 months moderate climate) the same way i run the pool in Thailand would have caused my pool water to turn green like pea soup within a few days or ugly mustard algae developing. no way to run the pump less than 6 hours and keeping CL @ 3ppm.

And that's why as a general rule the run times are what they are... Fail safe and simple stupid..................................For some anyways..