Young Expat First Time Buyer Looking For Contacts

[silk123]

Hi,

I'm living in hua hin and looking at buying a small townhouse for just short of 900k. I will bring the money over from bank back home.

I'm only 26 and on tourist visa but have being here on and off for 3 years renting and would rather just buy the property and leave my stuff in it while away. Also it would be fairly easy rent out as it's in a handy area and looks good and is only 5k/month.

Could someone who has a prorperty like that already and not retirment age pm me a number and i'll give a ring as i'd like to have a chat about your experience and any useful tips or advice.

Appreciate it.

[xbusman]

Dont do it unless you have 900k to throw away without any consequences. Put that money in a solid investment from back home and use it to pay rent here forever. Sign a one year lease and leave your stuff if thats critical to your life style.

If you have 900k to burn, enjoy yourself and take the gamble. Get a good lawyer and then hire a second lawyer to check out the work of the first.

[Heng]

What it boils down to is... "can you trust your spouse and/or will you be the ACTUAL head of your household?" For many foreigners it seems, the answer is no and no. If the answer is 'yes' and 'yes' or even 'yes' and 'usually,' then you should be all right.... and if you purchase a home you'll have a place to live out your days in peace without having to worry about some landlord collecting rent from you while you're on a respirator and perhaps unable to speak. Now if you have a permanent income stream and don't have to worry about your income drying up (this is a concern for those who are only semi-retired or don't have permanent independent income streams) when you stop working then renting IS the way to go.*

*But not if you do not truly believe that the "don't worry about ownership, just rent till you die" philosophy should be passed on to your children... in which case you may want to consider investing in a family home that you will own... and your kids will own, and hopefully their kids will still hold onto.

Edited November 30, 2005 by Heng

[Guest endure]

Heng

Why do you think that those with a permanent income stream when they retire should rent rather than buy? What are your thoughts on condos for retirees?

[xbusman]

Thailand is a third world country with a legal system that is completely unreliable. First rule of Thailand, NEVER PUT MORE MONEY HERE THAN YOU ARE WILLING TO WALK AWAY FROM. If you have 900K that you can lose, please by all means lose it any way you see fit. If 900k is an amount that would hurt you to lose, invest it in your home country where you have a chance of protecting it in the event of lifes many problems.

If you end up on a respirator, you got bigger problems than rent. Probability is that you might need the 900k about then. If its in a condo in Thailand the chance of selling it quickly is pretty small unless your willing to take a huge loss. But again, your money should not be in Thailand unless your quite comfortable with a significant loss, because you wisely listened to every old timer that told you up front NEVER PUT MORE MONEY IN THAILAND THAN YOUR WILLING TO WALK AWAY FROM.

Despite this really sage advice, this forum is filled with the wailing and gnashing of teeth of people that never understood why God gives us two ears and one mouth. The bars are full of them.

Silk123, here is the rule again if you missed it. Write it down, put it on the fridge, sticky note it to your car dash. NEVER PUT MORE MONEY IN THAILAND THAN YOUR WILLING TO WALK AWAY FROM. In fact, I will take it a step further. IN ANY THIRD WORLD COUNTRY.

Okay, I am open to anyone that ones to dispute this nugget that in my opinion has proved itself to me over the years. Dont forget, its not my idea but the sage words I heard from many old timers that were successful and happy here.

So Silk, if you can smoke 900k and enjoy the aroma, have at it. It will prove to fun and exciting over the thirty or forty years you get to maintain it. The pride of ownership of some dirt and concrete will compensate you for decades to come, material possessions are like that. You will get to watch lots of neighbors come and go during that time, you will notice that over time the bad ones seem to stay and stay. If your lucky, the condo management over a few decades will keep the property up, no earthquakes or tsunamis, political upheavals, economic meltdowns.

If you cant afford to lose 900k without a second thought.

DONT DO IT

[pnustedt]

We've bought a new house thru my wife in Sisaket which we won't live in full time for a couple of years, and when we do it will be temporarily until we can get some other land we own sorted to build on that.

The house was attractive because it is close to hospitals, schools, etc. and should be quite easy to rent out and in the meantime is a base and somewhere we can call home.

We have bought quite a few plots of land (around my wife's village) and their value seem to have appreciated over the years, I expect this house to appreciate in value too.

I haven't owned a home for 10 years and it gives me and my wife a good feeling to have somewhere as a base we can invite family and friends to.

[Heng]

Heng

Why do you think that those with a permanent income stream when they retire should rent rather than buy? What are your thoughts on condos for retirees?

Oh, I believe in buying over renting in general... my point was for those that:

*do not truly believe that the "don't worry about ownership, just rent till you die" philosophy should be passed on to your children... in which case you may want to consider investing in a family home that you will own... and your kids will own, and hopefully their kids will still hold onto.

If you don't intend to leave any inheritance to the next generation, then there's no need to actually own anything. If you don't plan on having a will or dividing up your estate among your relatives before you die, there's certainly no need to leave something for people to fight over.

[xbusman]

Whats wrong with leaving the next generation the freedom of a cash account instead of the burden of property. I just got done with a very messy and complicated property divisions in a will that was very carefully put together in the US. None of the heirs were anywhere near the properties, it was a terrible burden on the executor, and as very usual, no one was happy. Bad enough losing that generation, then add the fighting that always comes along.

You know thats a pretty good point if you are really concerned about leaving an inheritance, think about what fun it would be to execute a will, dispose of assets, and move that money back out of Thailand. I bet there are quite a few readers of this forum that could relay some pretty interesting stories about that.

People attach some mythical importance to owning some dirt and concrete. Its been hammered into the western psyche as part of the material consumerism society because for generations it was impossible for our European ancestors to become land owners and thereby get ahead. In an agricultural society, dirt means life liberty and prosperity. Property has always been one of the very best and safest investments but at the same time, its still an investment and I have seen lots of people utterly destroyed by property, 1997 comes readily to mind.

As an investment, inheritance, cost savings, savings plan, I think property investment in Thailand is just too high a risk for the return. If I had the money to burn, I might try it but it would not be on top of my list for high risk investments.

Whatever comes your way in life, cash is king and readily accepted at most places. Hard to eat a house when the new government revokes your visa because they dont like the color of your hair.

[bangkapiboy]

You can easily buy a condo for 900,000B, and you can own it in your name. That might be a much better idea since it sounds like you will be out of town a lot. In a condo you'll have 24 hr security. You also get a higher rental return.

[Heng]

Whats wrong with leaving the next generation the freedom of a cash account instead of the burden of property.

People attach some mythical importance to owning some dirt and concrete.

Hardly mythical... completely practical. There simply isn't enough land to go around and this only becomes more and more evident with each passing generation.

And it's hardly a choice between cash (which indeed is king...) and property. I think you'll find a rather subtle correlation between those holding all the property and those holding all the cash (often they are one and the same).

[Thaiquila]

I think owning a condo in Thailand is riskier than in the West.

However, buying property in the west is not without risk either.

Of course, it is always a personal cash flow, risk reward decision.

In my case, I did buy, with the justification being if you live in the condo, you are guaranteed a healthy return in "free rent" which is a reliable and healthy return on investment. Then, if you ever need or want to sell, over time if you buy well, there is a good chance you will also have capital apprecition.

So, for example, you buy a 3 million baht condo that you could rent similar for 25K baht a month (OK, you might not have to pay quite that much, but over time rents increase) that is rent of 300K per year which gives a 10 percent return PLUS the chance of capital gains, so your total return if you sell might be 15 percent or more.

It is hard to get this with bonds or stocks, which also have risk, so I still think, a reasonable case can be made for buying condos.

The biggest downside of course is your cash is tied up and real estate is not at all liquid, and you might indeed wish you had that ready cash for survival.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Thaiquila

[silk123]

Thanks very much for the replies Heng and yourselves. I really appreciate it. Like I said, i'm only 26 so excluding maintainence etc would work out at 15 years rent. That would make it a better investment for me year wise relative to retired gentlemen but i don't want to be burned by making a La La emotional decision.

It's a shame really that third world governments are that untrustworthy. I'm sure a lot of foreign people would to buy homes but are afraid with the underhanded carry on with the government here of losing their hard earned or hard earned cash of the person who left it to them. A real shame.

I do prefer living in a house because it's more private and for space and the rooms i see in sport villa hua hin for 950k look out at nothing. if there was a sea view it would kind of make up for it.

I'm guessing there is no problem getting in adsl in condos or rooms like that and also i see a few people with ubc on the outside walls up there.

Must look at condochain and a few other ones near town but i doubt 900k would buy one as they are priced for foreigners.

So what you are saying is even though i would prefer a house, a condo would be a better investment as less risky and less likely to be stolen by the government people if the power mongers amoung them had a change of heart or a farang hating dictator type came to be in power again and could make more backhander money for himself by robbing them rather than letting them continue to invest in the country.

I can see why the laws are in place to stop westerners buying up any good amount of real estate like what happened before with the chinese but the world isn't fair i'm told.

Once is enough to make that kind of mistake.

I'll look more into condos as that company loophole is scarey looking closely at it logically. Frigging dissapointing shame that.

All i want is a little safe base for myself here but it seems kinda racist the way western foreigners are not allowed buy here but have no problem letting them buy in our countries. No wonder they smile away, they are laughing at the fools they think us maybe. No harm in that.

I sure there are ways they could laugh a lot more than they do by opening up safer legislation for foreigners buying a small bit of land for themselves rather than the half assed loopholes they allow for now and allow a lot more money to flow into thailand.

Anyway i'm young and there are a lot of things i don't know about yet.

[WhiteShiva]

Anyway i'm young and there are a lot of things i don't know about yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, with that attitude, I'd say you are more mature than most posters here!

[Heng]

I'm guessing there is no problem getting in adsl in condos or rooms like that and also i see a few people with ubc on the outside walls up there.

Must look at condochain and a few other ones near town but i doubt 900k would buy one as they are priced for foreigners. 

Yes you can get UBC and ADSL in condos. Some won't have dishes outside because many places in the city have landline cable connections.

[Firefan]

I have bought a condo in Thailand and have certainyl not regretted it. I DID buy in a place I would like to live myself which I think is important.

You do not need a company and can own in full yourself with your name on the title deed. That does give some more protection (and less costs) than the company route (your name will never be on the title deed - just the company).

I (in BKK) have cable tv, ADSL, internal/ext phone lines, wireless router and so forth set up. Security 24 hour and good management fixing all the little stuff that always pops up whenever needed.

In short; a condo is not only a more direct/secure way to go, it also makes your life MUCH easier. I DO miss a garden though... will have to fill the balcony with plants I guess...

Cheers!

Ps. try to see if you can rent first in the place you consider buying - be it condo or house - all the things that the owner or agent "forgot" to mention can then be experienced (noise/polution/"charming" neighbors/bad plumming/exploding aircons or whatever! )

Edited December 2, 2005 by Firefan