Huge Widening Income Gap

[MikeRay]

That´s what I´m always wondering about, with these "expats".

They can only take such risks in hope of their mother countries or relatives will help them out in a miserable situation.

[jonik]

If you got time to sit all day typing at the thaivisa.com you're probably well off. I can't remember anyone complaining about their own moneyprobs in here, but ofcourse that's a sort of taboo area in los.

[KhunPadThai]

> 1. No garbage man makes 5000 dollars a month in the states!

Under the latest contract approved on Nov. 8, the maximum salary for a sanitation worker in New York City is $57,392.00 per year. Pretty close to $5000 per month.

[Pudgimelon]

Maybe some people will argue that it's their right, and they're worthy of such money. I can't seem to find any justification for such wealth knowing that 1000 other Thais have to be getting paid 5 thousand baht a month so that one or two elite can get that much.  I doubt they work any harder than anyone else and assume it's just the financial gap stratification at play.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is where communism runs into it's ideological quagmire. How can you flatten the top end of the pay scale without artificially giving a relative "pay raise" to millions of people who frankly, just don't deserve it.

A competent, tri-lingual manager with years of experience is certainly a rarer skill-set than what is required to cap bottles in a factory or pick rice in a field. But how much rarer and how much more to pay? There's no way to artificial decide that without creating the culture of entitlement and cronyism that contributed to the downfall of the Soviet Union and so many other communist states. "Letting the market decide" may not be the best or the fairest way to determine the worth of those skills, but it is certainly better than the alternatives that have been proposed so far (communism, caste, etc...)

Yeah, it sucks to be paid less than someone else, but its not their fault that they happen to be more skillful, more experienced, and more talented than you.

You said, "pay me that kind of money and I'll learn any language you want." But the fact is, you haven't learned those languages, so why should someone pay you for a skill you don't possess and may or may not be able to learn?

Learn those skills first and then see what happens. Until then, don't find fault in people who've put in the necessary groundwork to ensure their own success.

Edited December 4, 2005 by Pudgimelon

[sonnyJ]

> 1. No garbage man makes 5000 dollars a month in the states!

Under the latest contract approved on Nov. 8, the maximum salary for a sanitation worker in New York City is $57,392.00 per year.  Pretty close to $5000 per month.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would assume you wrote, minimum???

[sonnyJ]

I thought this topic/observation was on the widening income gap, on the whole planet. Maybe more so in developing countries than in all-ready-developed-ones. (One reason being that developing countries pick up the trends faster from the developed countries, many times not fully acknowledging the side effects).

Free market economy and all seems to make lots of sense to me. But, maybe there could be some kind of, developement in the economical sense. We can all see how's the current superpower using it's income, also managing it's internal economy.

Free markets? Yes, in Somalia for example. As we can find out, markets need to be controlled to some limit. I will leave comparisons of the European and American ''free markets'' out.

I have never seen a working example of communism, I used to live very close to one though. Anyway I can't rule this model out completely.

My visit to Singapore was a very pleasant one, even I started to get the first symptoms of malaria, (and was not allowed any cigarettes duty free in the country). Dictatorship seems like, it can work, if the dictator is wise enough. Things seem to work there anyways, few crimes, high tax on drugs as alcohol and cigarettes (more on others maybe), very organized society... Sure there was some minuses, health care, media.. I'd be please to be informed more of these since my visit was only a few days.

Also in Singapores case the it seems to be the markets, greed, thats spinning it around.

It could be just a trend of our times, maybe.. But this time of development, and I hate to say politics, a nescessity.

I have seem to forgot this is a TV topic, but have nothing to add concearning Thailand right now.

Just wanted to add' an international topic as an international problem/dilemma.

[The Dude]

You must be filthy rich if you don't see how it is possible to live off of 35,000 baht a month in Thailand. Actually, I don't make that much after taxes. More like 32 k on average.

I'm drunk half the week. If I didn't drink, I probably could save a lot.

I'm certainly not starving. I don't pay for sex if that's what you are asking? If I was making twice as much now, I probably would be paying for sex though... Fluck the wining and dining.

If you can introduce me to one person who works at macdonalds at 6 pounds an hour and can provide a pay stub in excess of 2000 USD or equivlent, please post or let me know. I think your full of &lt;deleted&gt;...I'll do a feature story about him/her in Nation Junior magazine, cause that's news worthy. If not, point me to a garbage man in any country that can prove he/she made 5000 USD or equivlent in one month salary. (no extra income from recycling counts)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The MINIMUM wage in the UK is 5.05 pounds, ANYONE working say a 50 hour week earns a MINIMUM of $1966 US$. Are you trying to suggest that no-one in the whole of the UK who works for Mcdonalds has ever done 50 hours a week?????

It is ILLEGAL to employ anyone over 22 for under a minimum of 5.05 pounds per hour in the UK, Anyone over 22 working in ANY job could earn 2,000 US$ by simply working 51 hours a week.

32,000 Baht isnt enough for a farang to live out here, what happens if you get ill, need to go home to visit a dieing relative etc...

I earn about 1/3 of what I did when I was 24 (6 years ago), however I still earn enough to be able to enjoy myself etc...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm with you dude, a lot of these poverty packers in Thailand have trouble with math and teeter on the edge of financial ruin with their 32K budgets. They speak about them as though they are beyond ample. I'd like to see a daily breakdown of these packers existence. God forbid if they wanted to eat something beyond a 50 cent plate of rice

[The Dude]

The guy who earns 32k a month, how would you go back home in the case of an emergency?, how are you saving for your retirement? What happens if you or your family get seriously ill?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gee Whiz, that dude never thought of that. Is that important or something? Healthcare, retirement savings and emergency cash, who needs it? Skating away on the thin ice of the new day.

[Pudgimelon]

Gee Whiz, that dude never thought of that. Is that important or something? Healthcare, retirement savings and emergency cash, who needs it? Skating away on the thin ice of the new day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Moving to New York:

Airfare: 40K baht-ish

First/Last/Security on an apartment: between 180K and 200K baht, if you're lucky

Furnishings (unless you plan on packing your sofa): 60K to 100K

Food/Transportation (while you look for a job or wait for your first paycheck): bare minimum 20K baht, up to 60K baht if it takes you a while to find a new job

So to move back to the States, it could cost anywhere from 300K to 400K baht (nearly $10,000). Oh yeah, and this is for just one person, if you wanted to bring the missus along, you'd have to tack on another $3,000 or $4,000.

Of course, you could save some money by living with your mom (again), but I'm assuming people here have a bit of dignity and want to do things on their own.

Let's say you live VERY frugally and manage to save 10K baht a month off your 32K baht salary. It would take you 40 months (OVER THREE YEARS!!!) to save up enough money to go back home AND you'd have absolutely no security or safety net if something went wrong (if you got hit by a bus or a landlord screwed you out of your down-payment on a place).

But realistically, who saves 10K baht a month for three years on a 32K baht salary? You'd be lucky to put 5K away occassionally, if that. So we're really talking more like six to ten years before you can scrape together enough money to move back home without relying on mommy and daddy.

Meanwhile, every other guy your age back home has been making FOUR to FIVE times what you make. He's got a nice house, a car, insurance and a retirement fund or pension. What have you got? Zero. Zilch. Nada.

The longer you stay here, the harder it gets to move back home, UNLESS you bust your ass and live frugally. Whining and dining a series of "girlfriends" isn't the way to do it.

So guys, unless you plan on becoming trapped here and living paycheck to paycheck until your dieing day, I'd recommend some serious re-thinking of your financial plans.

[greenwanderer108]

Gee Whiz, that dude never thought of that. Is that important or something? Healthcare, retirement savings and emergency cash, who needs it? Skating away on the thin ice of the new day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Moving to New York:

Airfare: 40K baht-ish

First/Last/Security on an apartment: between 180K and 200K baht, if you're lucky

Furnishings (unless you plan on packing your sofa): 60K to 100K

Food/Transportation (while you look for a job or wait for your first paycheck): bare minimum 20K baht, up to 60K baht if it takes you a while to find a new job

So to move back to the States, it could cost anywhere from 300K to 400K baht (nearly $10,000). Oh yeah, and this is for just one person, if you wanted to bring the missus along, you'd have to tack on another $3,000 or $4,000.

Of course, you could save some money by living with your mom (again), but I'm assuming people here have a bit of dignity and want to do things on their own.

Let's say you live VERY frugally and manage to save 10K baht a month off your 32K baht salary. It would take you 40 months (OVER THREE YEARS!!!) to save up enough money to go back home AND you'd have absolutely no security or safety net if something went wrong (if you got hit by a bus or a landlord screwed you out of your down-payment on a place).

But realistically, who saves 10K baht a month for three years on a 32K baht salary? You'd be lucky to put 5K away occassionally, if that. So we're really talking more like six to ten years before you can scrape together enough money to move back home without relying on mommy and daddy.

Meanwhile, every other guy your age back home has been making FOUR to FIVE times what you make. He's got a nice house, a car, insurance and a retirement fund or pension. What have you got? Zero. Zilch. Nada.

The longer you stay here, the harder it gets to move back home, UNLESS you bust your ass and live frugally. Whining and dining a series of "girlfriends" isn't the way to do it.

So guys, unless you plan on becoming trapped here and living paycheck to paycheck until your dieing day, I'd recommend some serious re-thinking of your financial plans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You want to spend your days in this fantasy you call 'security' in the USA, England, or wherever, that's your right and perogative. Likewise, if I am confortable with this supposed 'poverty' you label me as in Thailand, than so be it.

Please don't try to be so ignorant throwing these meaningless figures out. All this 'false sense' of security is exactly what I left behind in the states. Some of these questions you pose...emergencies, retirement, etc.?

What if I'm termanilly ill and need to be treated?

Specifically in regards to the healthcare system in the USA, if/when I do require the attention /treatment of medical profesional(s), my capital will most definately go alot further in LOS than in the USA...

My gf is Thai, my offspring is Thai? It's reletaively cheap for their healthcare. Dude, maybe it's not possible for you and any one of you wealthy forumers to survive off of 32,000 baht a month in Thailand, but that's obviously not the case for a millions of foriegners and Thais who live off of much less here. Sure it's more difficult in Bangkok, but certainly not impossible.

What do I have? I've been cleaning and organizing my crap today, and frankly think I've got too much material &lt;deleted&gt;...As someone pointed out, all this healthcare, security, retirment, car, house, etc. you speak of... what is all that? That is all just materialism and it's certainly not essential in life, atleast in the sense you seem to be suggesting, and won't go with you when you die...well maybe if you really love your car and wash and wax it three times a day, then...well maybe

Anyway, not everyones retirement plans in Thailand includes a beachouse with 20 year old hookers in Pattaya every other night. Everyone to their own...

I plan to retire with a simple life upcountry fishing off a traditional boat house half the year, while the other half making penance as a Monk/Bhramin/Daoist in the mountains...well some combination/variation of this anyway.

Can't imagine these plans requiring a million baht pension plan and is certainly achievable with my career path/life style in Thailand. What is more important for me is the values that I will raise my offpring before I get to that point of 'retirement'.

[Incalclickable]

Gee Whiz, that dude never thought of that. Is that important or something? Healthcare, retirement savings and emergency cash, who needs it? Skating away on the thin ice of the new day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Moving to New York:

Airfare: 40K baht-ish

First/Last/Security on an apartment: between 180K and 200K baht, if you're lucky

Furnishings (unless you plan on packing your sofa): 60K to 100K

Food/Transportation (while you look for a job or wait for your first paycheck): bare minimum 20K baht, up to 60K baht if it takes you a while to find a new job

So to move back to the States, it could cost anywhere from 300K to 400K baht (nearly $10,000). Oh yeah, and this is for just one person, if you wanted to bring the missus along, you'd have to tack on another $3,000 or $4,000.

Of course, you could save some money by living with your mom (again), but I'm assuming people here have a bit of dignity and want to do things on their own.

Let's say you live VERY frugally and manage to save 10K baht a month off your 32K baht salary. It would take you 40 months (OVER THREE YEARS!!!) to save up enough money to go back home AND you'd have absolutely no security or safety net if something went wrong (if you got hit by a bus or a landlord screwed you out of your down-payment on a place).

But realistically, who saves 10K baht a month for three years on a 32K baht salary? You'd be lucky to put 5K away occassionally, if that. So we're really talking more like six to ten years before you can scrape together enough money to move back home without relying on mommy and daddy.

Meanwhile, every other guy your age back home has been making FOUR to FIVE times what you make. He's got a nice house, a car, insurance and a retirement fund or pension. What have you got? Zero. Zilch. Nada.

The longer you stay here, the harder it gets to move back home, UNLESS you bust your ass and live frugally. Whining and dining a series of "girlfriends" isn't the way to do it.

So guys, unless you plan on becoming trapped here and living paycheck to paycheck until your dieing day, I'd recommend some serious re-thinking of your financial plans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You want to spend your days in this fantasy you call 'security' in the USA, England, or wherever, that's your right and perogative. Likewise, if I am confortable with this supposed 'poverty' you label me as in Thailand, than so be it.

Please don't try to be so ignorant throwing these meaningless figures out. All this 'false sense' of security is exactly what I left behind in the states. Some of these questions you pose...emergencies, retirement, etc.?

What if I'm termanilly ill and need to be treated?

Specifically in regards to the healthcare system in the USA, if/when I do require the attention /treatment of medical profesional(s), my capital will most definately go alot further in LOS than in the USA...

My gf is Thai, my offspring is Thai? It's reletaively cheap for their healthcare. Dude, maybe it's not possible for you and any one of you wealthy forumers to survive off of 32,000 baht a month in Thailand, but that's obviously not the case for a millions of foriegners and Thais who live off of much less here. Sure it's more difficult in Bangkok, but certainly not impossible.

What do I have? I've been cleaning and organizing my crap today, and frankly think I've got too much material &lt;deleted&gt;...As someone pointed out, all this healthcare, security, retirment, car, house, etc. you speak of... what is all that? That is all just materialism and it's certainly not essential in life, atleast in the sense you seem to be suggesting, and won't go with you when you die...well maybe if you really love your car and wash and wax it three times a day, then...well maybe

Anyway, not everyones retirement plans in Thailand includes a beachouse with 20 year old hookers in Pattaya every other night. Everyone to their own...

I plan to retire with a simple life upcountry fishing off a traditional boat house half the year, while the other half making penance as a Monk/Bhramin/Daoist in the mountains...well some combination/variation of this anyway.

Can't imagine these plans requiring a million baht pension plan and is certainly achievable with my career path/life style in Thailand. What is more important for me is the values that I will raise my offpring before I get to that point of 'retirement'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So your plan for your future is to eat fish and beg the other half of the year?

Wow, I really hope you dont have a change of heart when the reality of your choice smacks you in the face because then it will be too late.

[solo siam]

As someone pointed out, all this healthcare, security, retirment, car, house, etc. you speak of... what is all that? That is all just materialism and it's certainly not essential in life, atleast in the sense you seem to be suggesting, and won't go with you when you die...well maybe if you really love your car and wash and wax it three times a day, then...well maybe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I personally wouldnt call retirement, housing or healthcare - materialism.

These values that you will be giving to your children, doesnt look to include a college or University education.

[cobra]

  ... not everyones retirement plans in Thailand includes a beachouse with 20 year old hookers in Pattaya every other night ...

That wasn't my plan, but now you got me thinking, ..

[Thaiquila]

As someone pointed out, all this healthcare, security, retirment, car, house, etc. you speak of... what is all that? That is all just materialism and it's certainly not essential in life, atleast in the sense you seem to be suggesting, and won't go with you when you die...well maybe if you really love your car and wash and wax it three times a day, then...well maybe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I personally wouldnt call retirement, housing or healthcare - materialism.

These values that you will be giving to your children, doesnt look to include a college or University education.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is an interesting discussion, but aren't most of us constantly striving for a balance of "security" and fullfilling our true desires?

I do too, but I also deep down think security is a total illusion, there is really no such thing. You can have enough money in the bank to live 1000 lifetimes and get hit by a bus or get cancer. Is the old cliche that nobody ever said "I wish I spent more time at the office" on their death bed true?

Regarding "retirement", well this is historically a very new concept in the world, so can hardly be considered a requirement for human happiness. Personally, I like it, because the work I did for money was not personally fullfilling, but for those smart or lucky enough to have work that is also their passion, why would they ever want to retire?

Edited December 5, 2005 by Thaiquila

[The Dude]

Thaiquila, I do respect you dude but it is important to realize one important fact, Life is Long and one needs cash to live it. I asked my friend just the other day if he was going to move here with his 30K USD, he said no. I said, what if you die soon?>, he said "what if I dont?"

[cobra]

I asked my friend just the other day if he was going to move here with his 30K USD, he said no. I said, what if you die soon?>, he said "what if I dont

Therein lies the conundrum, do I go for another card or stand pat ...

[Neeranam]

My gf is Thai, my offspring is Thai? It's reletaively cheap for their healthcare. Dude, maybe it's not possible for you and any one of you wealthy forumers to survive off of 32,000 baht a month in Thailand, but that's obviously not the case for a millions of foriegners and Thais who live off of much less here. Sure it's more difficult in Bangkok, but certainly not impossible.

What do I have? I've been cleaning and organizing my crap today, and frankly think I've got too much material &lt;deleted&gt;...As someone pointed out, all this healthcare, security, retirment, car, house, etc. you speak of... what is all that? That is all just materialism and it's certainly not essential in life, atleast in the sense you seem to be suggesting, and won't go with you when you die...well maybe if you really love your car and wash and wax it three times a day, then...well maybe rolleyes.gif

Anyway, not everyones retirement plans in Thailand includes a beachouse with 20 year old hookers in Pattaya every other night. Everyone to their own...

I plan to retire with a simple life upcountry fishing off a traditional boat house half the year, while the other half making penance as a Monk/Bhramin/Daoist in the mountains...well some combination/variation of this anyway.

Can't imagine these plans requiring a million baht pension plan and is certainly achievable with my career path/life style in Thailand. wink.gif What is more important for me is the values that I will raise my offpring before I get to that point of 'retirement'.

Good post - I'm with you on this one.

I lived very comfortably in Bangkok for years in my late twenties and thirties on about 35,000 most months. I never managed to go 'home' but then again i didn't want to. Some of the happiest days of my life were back then - not a care in the world.

Your plans sound good - all the best.

It's up to you - live a miserable stressful life in a country you don't like - saving for your retirement that you might never see - or live a stress free life in one you love.

Security, or lack of it causes suffering - it's all in the head, not in your bank book.

The knowledge you earn from work gets spent, but the knowledge that you earn from work is yours forever.

[vjoe]

Gee Whiz, that dude never thought of that. Is that important or something? Healthcare, retirement savings and emergency cash, who needs it? Skating away on the thin ice of the new day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Moving to New York:

So to move back to the States, it could cost anywhere from 300K to 400K baht (nearly $10,000). Oh yeah, and this is for just one person, if you wanted to bring the missus along, you'd have to tack on another $3,000 or $4,000.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you kidding? How many immigrant came to the US with $10,000 in their pocket.

As long as he's relatively young and healthy, he can move back anytime.

[solo siam]

Yeah but at that salary he's obviously not doing anything that would look good on a CV, What if for some reason he is forced to leave this country and go home. He certainly hasnt got enough money to pay his way out of trouble.

Hows he going to get a job with a blank CV except for "Long Term Goal: Go Fishing"

Its all very well saying live now dont worry, you sound like you had a good time in your twenties but that was some time ago (I'm guessing) and 35k would have gone a lot further then, Also I'm curious as to whether that was with a family.

I'm not saying teh guy has to go home but with a family to support I would certainly be looking to at least save some money, which he isnt by teh sounds of things.

[steveromagnino]

regarding political systems, I strongly believe in the free market mechanism with light handed regulation to protect environment, the poor and preserve culture.

The usual complaint of the free market is that it squanders resources and causes poverty... well part of it is that without regulation there is an incentive for short term gain and this is why protection of the environment among other things is needed. Carbon tax while beauracratic and annoying is an example of that. The causes poverty particularly in the 3rd world bit...well that is partly because there isn't really a free market, lots of trade barriers up making sure the 1st world countriese can protect themselves for the competitive industries where 3rd world could be dominant (e.g. France agriculture) and also becase some of the 3rd world dictators have made some terrible deals for their countries to get money for themselves.

A few cases like Nauru where NZ, Australia and Britain completely screwed them over, but that isn't really anything to do with a free market.

If someone wants to pay me 1,000,000,000 baht to be their cleaner why should anyone else stop them? Of course that isn't going to happen because despite my superior ironing skills, there are millions of people who can be maids. However, there aren't many people who can be a CEO.

That said, there are plenty of IMHO well overpaid expats here who are here mostly because the parent company wants a 'company man from their country' overseeing things.... a few I've met are at a loss as to what to do with their time; cannot speak the language, don't know what is going on, and all they do is present and escort their bosses around occasionally.... nice work if you can get it. But if a company wants to waste their money on a jobsworth; well that is up to the them and their shareholders.

Go the free market. Deregulate with clear market mechanisms. Bring back Buck.

[greenwanderer108]

I'm with you dude, a lot of these poverty packers in Thailand have trouble with math and teeter on the edge of financial ruin with their 32K budgets. They speak about them as though they are beyond ample. I'd like to see a daily breakdown of these packers existence. God forbid if they wanted to eat something beyond a 50 cent plate of rice

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

50 baht plate of rice?! Is that how much they charged you? Let me guess, that's the cheapest local food you've eaten in LOS:o The only places that ask 50 baht for rice dishes are where clueless foreigners like perhaps yourself will pay it when trying to impress some girl that they can eat more than steak, potatoes, and burgers.

While I do eat out half of the week cause it's so cheap here, (and no, I won't pay 50 baht for rice dishes---even in Bangkok, that's double the standard)

I've already stated to you that my life is more than comfortable, sometimes too comfortable. So rather than me try to point out what I think is 'common sense' the next time you're in Thailand, why don't you learn how to speak/understand atleast 50 Thai words, take a walk out on the street beyond the world of Patpong, your 5 star hotels, or wherever it is you think to have experienced 'real Thailand'. When in Rome...etc. Once you open your mind to a new culture/lifestyle, take the silver spoon out your bum, I think you'll easily find that life in LOS isn't quite so impoverished nor expensive after all.

If you still can't figure it out, why not recording yourself on video in the comfort of your wealth addressing Thailand that most of them are living in poverty if their income is less than 30k. Heck, I'll even translate it for you free of charge. If anything it will make a good comedy variety on Thai primetime to see the ignorant arogant farang who knows all. This could be a hit...we can make it a weekly address from the dude. Look out Thaksin

[greenwanderer108]

Yeah but at that salary he's obviously not doing anything that would look good on a CV, What if for some reason he is forced to leave this country and go home.  He certainly hasnt got enough money to pay his way out of trouble.

Hows he going to get a job with a blank CV except for "Long Term Goal: Go Fishing"

Its all very well saying live now dont worry, you sound like you had a good time in your twenties but that was some time ago (I'm guessing) and 35k would have gone a lot further then, Also I'm curious as to whether that was with a family.

I'm not saying teh guy has to go home but with a family to support I would certainly be looking to at least save some money, which he isnt by teh sounds of things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Between volunteering, teaching, and journalism, my Thailand CV is actually pretty full Even in the states, I would guess that years of international experience would be more impressive on a CV than standard local labor experience, regardless of the salary...

[jbowman1993]

He didn't say 50 baht, he said 50 cents, which is ~20 baht. Read before you rant.

Peace

[greenwanderer108]

He didn't say 50 baht, he said 50 cents, which is ~20 baht.  Read before you rant.

Peace

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

my mistake...not use to thinking in cents and dollars...

[meadish_sweetball]

Yeah but at that salary he's obviously not doing anything that would look good on a CV, What if for some reason he is forced to leave this country and go home.  He certainly hasnt got enough money to pay his way out of trouble.

Hows he going to get a job with a blank CV except for "Long Term Goal: Go Fishing"

Its all very well saying live now dont worry, you sound like you had a good time in your twenties but that was some time ago (I'm guessing) and 35k would have gone a lot further then, Also I'm curious as to whether that was with a family.

I'm not saying teh guy has to go home but with a family to support I would certainly be looking to at least save some money, which he isnt by teh sounds of things.

Between volunteering, teaching, and journalism, my Thailand CV is actually pretty full Even in the states, I would guess that years of international experience would be more impressive on a CV than standard local labor experience, regardless of the salary...

If you want more money - educate yourself in something that you like doing, and that you can make more money from, than doing what you are doing at present. Invest your time and money now and reap the benefits from that investment later, in terms of a higher income and a more expensive lifestyle. If you think this will improve your life, of course. If you dont, then dont worry about it.

You should know, and probably do know, that this is exactly how most Thai people think - they work very hard because they want their kids to have a good education. Partly for selfish reasons, because they realize they need somebody to support them when old, but also partly because they want their kids to have a good life without having economical difficulties.

If you are not prepared to spend your time or money to make that investment, stop complaining about the people who are now making more money than yourself because they did make that choice.

Money doesnt equal happiness, but it is one important means to achieve what you want without having to do everything yourself. Having some savings will ensure you can worry less about the future. It also makes it easier for you to take responsibility for other people, usually part of the grown-up experience.

[Axel]

Let's see this point from another angle. If you are in HR for your company in Thailand, your management decided the company needs an expatriate for a specific job. This would be a job, Thais generally cannot do (think of the work permit) and requires some experience.

So what you are looking for is somebody from back home, the USA, UK or Continental-Europe, bi-lingual or at least fluent in English, minimum 10 years job-experience, 5 years in mid-management, like section head etc.

The total income must include salary, housing allowance that makes it possible to rent same style as back home, schools for children that allows after a few years to catch up with th schooling system home.

Pension funds and health insurance back home to carry on.

The offer must as well be attractive enough to get the applicant away from his/her present career and jump into the 'adventure' to move to Thailand.

I doubt very much you find anybody for Baht 35K p.m. So what would you offer to find somebody?

[snoophound]

Well said

Not to mention the fact when you return you want to be able to have a good lifestyle and go home with some money.

Unless its a :'lifestyle" choice of course.

Let's see this point from another angle. If you are in HR for your company in Thailand, your management decided the company needs an expatriate for a specific job. This would be a job, Thais generally cannot do (think of the work permit) and requires some experience.

So what you are looking for is somebody from back home, the USA, UK or Continental-Europe, bi-lingual or at least fluent in English, minimum 10 years job-experience, 5 years in mid-management, like section head etc.

The total income must include salary, housing allowance that makes it possible to rent same style as back home, schools for children that allows after a few years to catch up with th schooling system home.

Pension funds and health insurance back home to carry on. 

The offer must as well be attractive enough to get the applicant away from his/her present career and jump into the 'adventure' to move to Thailand.

I doubt very much you find anybody for Baht 35K p.m. So what would you offer to find somebody?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[think_too_mut]

Gee Whiz, that dude never thought of that. Is that important or something? Healthcare, retirement savings and emergency cash, who needs it? Skating away on the thin ice of the new day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Moving to New York:

So to move back to the States, it could cost anywhere from 300K to 400K baht (nearly $10,000). Oh yeah, and this is for just one person, if you wanted to bring the missus along, you'd have to tack on another $3,000 or $4,000.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you kidding? How many immigrant came to the US with $10,000 in their pocket.

As long as he's relatively young and healthy, he can move back anytime.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He, he...you can come to America, Canada, Australia with only 20K of baggage but you are free to make your way up.

Many had and have done that.

Is Thailand that sort of a country? Except for the Burmeese, Khmer and Lao who escaped 300baht per week for 800baht.

[billd766]

I'm with you dude, a lot of these poverty packers in Thailand have trouble with math and teeter on the edge of financial ruin with their 32K budgets. They speak about them as though they are beyond ample. I'd like to see a daily breakdown of these packers existence. God forbid if they wanted to eat something beyond a 50 cent plate of rice

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

50 baht plate of rice?! Is that how much they charged you? Let me guess, that's the cheapest local food you've eaten in LOS:o The only places that ask 50 baht for rice dishes are where clueless foreigners like perhaps yourself will pay it when trying to impress some girl that they can eat more than steak, potatoes, and burgers.

While I do eat out half of the week cause it's so cheap here, (and no, I won't pay 50 baht for rice dishes---even in Bangkok, that's double the standard)

I've already stated to you that my life is more than comfortable, sometimes too comfortable. So rather than me try to point out what I think is 'common sense' the next time you're in Thailand, why don't you learn how to speak/understand atleast 50 Thai words, take a walk out on the street beyond the world of Patpong, your 5 star hotels, or wherever it is you think to have experienced 'real Thailand'. When in Rome...etc. Once you open your mind to a new culture/lifestyle, take the silver spoon out your bum, I think you'll easily find that life in LOS isn't quite so impoverished nor expensive after all.

If you still can't figure it out, why not recording yourself on video in the comfort of your wealth addressing Thailand that most of them are living in poverty if their income is less than 30k. Heck, I'll even translate it for you free of charge. If anything it will make a good comedy variety on Thai primetime to see the ignorant arogant farang who knows all. This could be a hit...we can make it a weekly address from the dude. Look out Thaksin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I live up country with my wife and son in her house on her land which I paid for, and I have no problems with that at all.

I read from one of your earlier posts that you bring in some 32K baht and have a Thai girlfriend. Can I aasume that you girlfriend has a job and helps with your finances, if not it isn't really important, as there are only the two of you.

My pensions bring in a bit more than your income but I had to work 25 years for oned and over ten years for the other one.

Now I directly support myself and my wife and 16 month old son, I also help her parents to the amount of 6,000 baht a month which is shared by her Mum and Dad, and also her nephew and niece but her eldest brother who walked away from his wife and children a few years ago, and their mother left them last year.

I also support her middle brother, his wife and son who live with us and her youngest brother who lives with her Mum and Dad.

An old friend and her daughter live with us and we also pay 2 people who work for us and provide them with some where for them, their 3 children and his mother as well.

I would love to be able to go out and get drunk 2 or 3 nights a week, and eat out when I want but I don't as I carry a lot of people as I believe in the Thai concept of helping the family through good times and bad.

What I try hard not to do is bitch about how little I earn compared to other people.

I have worked since I was 15 and I am 61 now. I have earned a little money and a lot of money and I don't give a rats ass if anybody, male or female, whatever colour or religion earns more than me provided that they know more than me and can do the job better..

If they do then their management obvoiusly thinks that they are worth the extra money. If you want more money, go to school and learn other skills that pay better,

work hard and save what you can and take the responsiblity that goes with it. Go and share your skills in other countries who need your experience and get paid the going rate for the job that you do.

In my last few contracts I was not paid for what I did, rather than what I knew and passed on to other people, plus the ability to understand what is wrong with the system and fix it. And be prepared to speak out even if your managers don't like to hear what you say.

When I left my last contract in Pakistan I waas replaced by 3 local Pakistanis who had more qualifications than me but would not stand up to the management and the contractors and say that that particular piece of work is no good.

My friend who is still there tells me that to replace the 15 or so expats that used to work there there are over 50 local guys most of whom sit in the office all day and do no work. But they are cheap.

I was responsble for 14 sites in a 400 km stretch of motorway and I visited every site at least twice a week and I ordered 2 sites to be dismantled and rebuilt because they did not meet my standards let alone my customers.

I was paid a large amount of money and given a large amount of responsibility.

That is why expats get so much money.

Edited December 6, 2005 by billd766

[vjoe]

He, he...you can come to America, Canada, Australia with only 20K of baggage but you are free to make your way up.

Many had and have done that.

Is Thailand that sort of a country? Except for the Burmeese, Khmer and Lao who escaped 300baht per week for 800baht.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, my maternal grandparents went to Thailand with nothing in their pocket and managed to put 10 kids through college. But then that was 60 years ago.

> bild766 - It sounds like you are carrying a big load there, good luck.