Building Collapse Not Caused By Flood: Thai Engineer

[webfact]

Building collapse not caused by flood: engineer

The Nation

Suggestions that prolonged flooding in Bangkok late last year was the main cause of the recent partial collapse of a building under construction was ruled out yesterday by the secretary general of the Engineering Institute of Thailand (EIT).

"If the flooding was the major reason, other nearby buildings would not stand firm like this. From my observation, all other buildings in the same area have had no problems at all," Thanet Thirasiri said.

One man was injured when the building under construction in Bangkok's Bang Phlat district collapsed at about 8.30pm on Sunday. Boonsong Thanapoj was hurt, and Wannaporn Boonkerd shocked by the incident.

Falling debris from the structure damaged three makeshift rooms for construction workers, the roof of Wannaporn's house, and six motorcycles.

Deputy Bangkok Governor Dr Malinee Sukvejvorakij yesterday said the project owner had sought and received a construction permit in line with laws.

"The building is designed to accommodate 70 housing units," she said.

Thanet said records showed the engineering design for the building also met proper criteria. He planned to examine the structure of the building further to determine the root cause of the collapse. "The detailed examination will take more than 10 days," he said.

-- The Nation 2012-01-17

[Ricardo]

There was a proper permit in-place, and the design was OK, must have been a sudden surge in gravity then, as it surely couldn't have been skimping on the materials used.

[cloudhopper]

Here's an analysis of a similar collapse in China - http://www.hoax-slayer.com/13-story-buliding-collapse-china.shtml

[draftvader]

Naturally there have been no ill side-effects of 3 weeks of 1m+ deep flood waters.....

[geriatrickid]

Naturally there have been no ill side-effects of 3 weeks of 1m+ deep flood waters.....

Not in this case there wasn't. If they could blame it on the floods they would.

[OZEMADE]

Thanet said records showed the engineering design for the building also met proper criteria. He planned to examine the structure of the building further to determine the root cause of the collapse. "The detailed examination will take more than 10 days," he said.

I would like to see what the report says in 10 days or more as stated, as to what excuse they come up with and how lucky that it was not finished and was fully occupied.

[rakman]

Thanet said records showed the engineering design for the building also met proper criteria. He planned to examine the structure of the building further to determine the root cause of the collapse. "The detailed examination will take more than 10 days," he said.

I would like to see what the report says in 10 days or more as stated, as to what excuse they come up with and how lucky that it was not finished and was fully occupied.

The detailed examination will take 10 days.. the report will take a long, long time.. A little after the time the head of the responsible part of government leaves his job.

[stickyrice2000]

It looks like someone is using the cheap materials to gain more profits.

[Bagwan]

A factor to be considered is the timing of the event. Nobody was working on the site when it occured. Coincidence? I'd be interested in the Insurance Assessors report, if any.

Maybe the Big Bad Wolf had a hand in this? Luckily the place wasn't built of straw or wood.

[housepainter]

I am left to ask who did win the World Cup then? Not now but the one before.

It's a shame this engineering expert didn't travel the world to explain things.

Japan didn't have an earthquake because the surrounding countries didn't. But they did have atsunami because the folkds next door did. Got that.

North Korea likewise has no nucleur bomb because South Korea next door hasn't got one but Mexico can't be poor because next door the US has loadsa dosh.

Makes sense to some people.

Best of all we won the world cup because the French did and they are next door so we must have one too. Or they couldn't have won it after all because we didn't! Or did we? It takes an expert to tell me these things so I can understand. Leave it to common sense or worse, logic, and look where it gets you.

To the bottom of things. And this is scraping it. Whatever next?

[tweedledum]

The engineer is 100% correct, the collapse is not due to the flooding. Anyone who has driven around Bangkok and watched Thais build anything can tell you that they have no clue how to properly construct anything, not a road, not a wall, and absolutely not a building. I am amazed other buildings haven't collapsed. I haven't been to anyplace poorer than Thailand so I can't say how poorer countries build but this is the only place I have been where multistory buildings are constructed using small red bricks. Not even in nice consistent rows and columns, every wall has big gaps that are filled with mortar. No proper forms are used when the main structural beams are made and the size of the rebar and the way the rebar is formed is slipshod at best. And if you showed a Thai person the proper way to engineer anything they would look at you like you were crazy. 90% of all electrical wiring in Thailand is not grounded; while inspecting a new home construction I noticed it only had two wires and asked the salesperson. I was told it was fine. I said no. They got the engineer, he said three wires is not necessary. If you want three wires (grounding) you can do it yourself later.

This is Thailand they are happy with doing things the same way they have done them for a 100 years.

No the collapse had noting to do with the flooding. Well maybe a little, have you ever seen how the Thais prepare a building site? Back fill with garbage and anything else handy and maybe pack it down a little. Sure way to loose stability when the water sits on it for a month. But if it had been engineered and built properly the flood would not have affected the building.

[IsaanUSA]

The engineer is 100% correct, the collapse is not due to the flooding. Anyone who has driven around Bangkok and watched Thais build anything can tell you that they have no clue how to properly construct anything, not a road, not a wall, and absolutely not a building. I am amazed other buildings haven't collapsed. I haven't been to anyplace poorer than Thailand so I can't say how poorer countries build but this is the only place I have been where multistory buildings are constructed using small red bricks. Not even in nice consistent rows and columns, every wall has big gaps that are filled with mortar. No proper forms are used when the main structural beams are made and the size of the rebar and the way the rebar is formed is slipshod at best. And if you showed a Thai person the proper way to engineer anything they would look at you like you were crazy. 90% of all electrical wiring in Thailand is not grounded; while inspecting a new home construction I noticed it only had two wires and asked the salesperson. I was told it was fine. I said no. They got the engineer, he said three wires is not necessary. If you want three wires (grounding) you can do it yourself later.

Go to Vietnam. I'm no engineer, but those buildings just look dangerous. I guess land is expensive, so they build these skinny buildings up like 8 levels.

A bunch of pessimists in this thread. Accidents happen. Let's see what they rule on this building.

Edited January 17, 2012 by IsaanUSA

[WarpSpeed]

Naturally there have been no ill side-effects of 3 weeks of 1m+ deep flood waters.....

Not in this case there wasn't. If they could blame it on the floods they would.

Suuuuuure they would! Based on what? This silly quote from the mouth of experience??

"If the flooding was the major reason, other nearby buildings would not stand firm like this. From my observation, all other buildings in the same area have had no problems at all," Thanet Thirasiri said.

I heard this today on the radio and nearly crashed my car at the presumptive ignorance behind it. It's like saying well because the building next door didn't collapse in the earthquake then one never really happened... Really, I've endured enough Thai logic to day as I just renewed my 5 year license this morning too and Oh! What nonsense!!..

I think you'll find if you search back a month or so ago I posted on several flood related threads that exactly this was going to be the next shoe falling besides the health issues which my family is also experiencing and I'm seeing a daily basis all around us more so then usual.. As I mentioned previously in another topic of discussion, I have held a Florida state contractors license and understand the engineering apparently better then the Thai engineer at the Uni as I predicted this exact scenario back then and have noticed not only my house but several houses in the immediate area suffering severe foundation issues with numerous cracks opening up and signs of settling after weeks of saturated high pressure underneath foundations, the worse case scenario is happening in the form of continued, rapid drying, now we need some beneficial rain to slow the process..

Of course the government commissioned mouth piece..... Er um sorry, "expert" comes out and says it isn't related, job done no more government responsibility, end of, wash our hands, move on!... Not!

[WarpSpeed]

The engineer is 100% correct, the collapse is not due to the flooding. Anyone who has driven around Bangkok and watched Thais build anything can tell you that they have no clue how to properly construct anything, not a road, not a wall, and absolutely not a building. I am amazed other buildings haven't collapsed. I haven't been to anyplace poorer than Thailand so I can't say how poorer countries build but this is the only place I have been where multistory buildings are constructed using small red bricks. Not even in nice consistent rows and columns, every wall has big gaps that are filled with mortar. No proper forms are used when the main structural beams are made and the size of the rebar and the way the rebar is formed is slipshod at best. And if you showed a Thai person the proper way to engineer anything they would look at you like you were crazy. 90% of all electrical wiring in Thailand is not grounded; while inspecting a new home construction I noticed it only had two wires and asked the salesperson. I was told it was fine. I said no. They got the engineer, he said three wires is not necessary. If you want three wires (grounding) you can do it yourself later.

This is Thailand they are happy with doing things the same way they have done them for a 100 years.

No the collapse had noting to do with the flooding. Well maybe a little, have you ever seen how the Thais prepare a building site? Back fill with garbage and anything else handy and maybe pack it down a little. Sure way to loose stability when the water sits on it for a month. But if it had been engineered and built properly the flood would not have affected the building.

Most of your post is accurate except you lose the plot on the contradiction that "the Thai engineer is 100% correct" perception...

First off he's part of the problem being one of those who educates how it should be done,

Secondly what you state being true on most accounts just exacerbates the problem doesn't it? but doesn't confirm his disclaimer of the floods...

[WarpSpeed]

I am left to ask who did win the World Cup then? Not now but the one before.

It's a shame this engineering expert didn't travel the world to explain things.

Japan didn't have an earthquake because the surrounding countries didn't. But they did have atsunami because the folkds next door did. Got that.

North Korea likewise has no nucleur bomb because South Korea next door hasn't got one but Mexico can't be poor because next door the US has loadsa dosh.

Makes sense to some people.

Best of all we won the world cup because the French did and they are next door so we must have one too. Or they couldn't have won it after all because we didn't! Or did we? It takes an expert to tell me these things so I can understand. Leave it to common sense or worse, logic, and look where it gets you.

To the bottom of things. And this is scraping it. Whatever next?

Well said, nearly the exact premise I presented without reading this far into thread before my post, like minds and all that..

Edited January 17, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Thanet said records showed the engineering design for the building also met proper criteria. He planned to examine the structure of the building further to determine the root cause of the collapse. "The detailed examination will take more than 10 days," he said.

I would like to see what the report says in 10 days or more as stated, as to what excuse they come up with and how lucky that it was not finished and was fully occupied.

Nothing new he's already made his "report" public nothing will change regardless of what is ACTUALLY discovered.. Loss of face and all that... With comments containing the twisted conclusions and logic like he's making probably one of his graduate students anyways....

Edited January 17, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[IAMHERE]

Ten days for a full determination. Let the bidding begin.

[Chopperboy]

The engineer is 100% correct, the collapse is not due to the flooding. Anyone who has driven around Bangkok and watched Thais build anything can tell you that they have no clue how to properly construct anything, not a road, not a wall, and absolutely not a building. I am amazed other buildings haven't collapsed. I haven't been to anyplace poorer than Thailand so I can't say how poorer countries build but this is the only place I have been where multistory buildings are constructed using small red bricks. Not even in nice consistent rows and columns, every wall has big gaps that are filled with mortar. No proper forms are used when the main structural beams are made and the size of the rebar and the way the rebar is formed is slipshod at best. And if you showed a Thai person the proper way to engineer anything they would look at you like you were crazy.

No the collapse had noting to do with the flooding. Well maybe a little, have you ever seen how the Thais prepare a building site? Back fill with garbage and anything else handy and maybe pack it down a little. Sure way to loose stability when the water sits on it for a month. But if it had been engineered and built properly the flood would not have affected the building.

Another one I could add to your list - They don't know how to mix mortar! They remove the stone from the concrete mix and go with a 1-2 cement to sand. The cement packet helps in this fallacy, it shows a cartoon of a ferang in 70's garb mixing with an American sized gallon pail, not a tiny Thai one! Profitable for cement companies but results in weak mortar.