The Loss Of Status

[Pudgimelon]

.....you are judging people with your own archaic sense of morality

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not morality. Reality.

[Tornado]

I agree with what the OP has written in nearly all points. The points I dont agree with, dont really matter as that is his own beliefs.

There are great opportunties in this country, positions that would never be attainable in our home countries. It doesnt have to be a position of power, just some great standing amongst a community who does not know your background or education.

My own story is a little long, so I will leave it out. I will say though, that you should really think about what was written in the first post as it quite factual and thought provoking.

edit - I will say though, if bar girls, late nights, hangovers daily, wearing no shirts going into government buildings, using bad Thai language and being a holiday maker for the rest of your life suits you, well thats fine to. Each to their own.

For the others, put on a shirt, mix in good circles, date some class and have a plan, you will go further here, than you ever could at home.

Edited December 3, 2005 by Tornado

[britmaveric]

Status - who cares?

Opportunities -

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't speak for everyone, but my own experience teaches me that opportunities and status exist here in truckloads for the farang willing and able to grab them.

Back in the States, I was a average dot-com cubicle warrior. True, I did appear on MTV News once when we wrestled a big show in New York (that's me in my avatar, by the way), but other than that, I really hadn't accomplished too much in my life.

I come here and suddenly I'm hanging out at weddings where the Minister of Defense is the guest of honor, and my wife skips out on a meeting with the Deputy Prime Minister to go snorkelling in Phi Phi with me, and I open my own business for the first time in my life, and I paid for it by tutoring the children of CEOs, Members of Parliament, and movie actresses.

I can't realistically imagine having the opportunity to do those kinds of things or meet those same kinds of people back in the States.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well done you are sucessful in your own right, I applaud that, however as I said this has no bearing on what others do. What was right for you, isn't right for countless others.

[Pudgimelon]

What on earth is a person who matters? Who wants to reinvent themselves? I'm quite happy with the way I am and certainly am not going to re-model myself to fit in with some half baked ideas about status...it's a concept riddled with so many irksome overtones....if we want to do any good in Thailand perhaps we should try and get rid of the hierarchical nature of society here and all the corruption and nepotism that goes with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm quite happy with the way I am too. What I'm talking about is dealing yourself a new hand and playing with a Full House, rather than the Two Pair you got dealt back home. Get it?

As for doing good in Thailand, how do you expect to challenge the hierarchical nature of society and all the corruption and nepotism in this country from a barstool? That stuff only gets changed if WE take an active and positive role in OUR communities. Here. Now.

[britmaveric]

What on earth is a person who matters? Who wants to reinvent themselves? I'm quite happy with the way I am and certainly am not going to re-model myself to fit in with some half baked ideas about status...it's a concept riddled with so many irksome overtones....if we want to do any good in Thailand perhaps we should try and get rid of the hierarchical nature of society here and all the corruption and nepotism that goes with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm quite happy with the way I am too. What I'm talking about is dealing yourself a new hand and playing with a Full House, rather than the Two Pair you got dealt back home. Get it?

As for doing good in Thailand, how do you expect to challenge the hierarchical nature of society and all the corruption and nepotism in this country from a barstool? That stuff only gets changed if WE take an active and positive role in OUR communities. Here. Now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well some of us already have a full house so little matters even from said barstool!!!

[Pudgimelon]

Well some of us already have a full house so little matters even from said barstool!!! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I suppose its easy to have a full house when those are the only cards in your deck , but some of us like the challenge of going through life playing from a full deck .

[chownah]

Pudgimelon,

You do appear to be overly concerned with status even though you are doing your best to deny it. Also you seem to be concerned that people are not becoming people of "consequence" when they arrive in Thailand....this is almost the same as status....just a slightly different twist. Thinking that farangs could change the destiny of Thailand also is just another shade of status.

In regards to becoming a person of "consequence"....the actions needed to become a person of consequence are pretty much the same thing everywhere in the world. Coming to Thailand is no more an opportunity to achieve this "goal" than living anywhere else....Thailand is not a land of golden opportunity....you don't get a new life when you arrive here...and most importantly you do not shed your old self the moment you arrive either.

[wilko]

So are these people loosing status by being near you?

Oh my God! you're a brown-noser or what?????

It just sounds so pathetic, trying to judge yourself by the people you sit next to.... I guess the picture sums it up.

If you couldn't get on back home maybe the people here are showing a lack of judgement that wasn't there in the States....after all you are "Johnny Foreigner" and they may not realise what you are like.....have you shown them your avatar????

What is "class" any way?

Edited December 3, 2005 by wilko

[Tornado]

Pudgimelon,

You do appear to be overly concerned with status even though you are doing your best to deny it.  Also you seem to be concerned that people are not becoming people of "consequence" when they arrive in Thailand....this is almost the same as status....just a slightly different twist.  Thinking that farangs could change the destiny of Thailand also is just another shade of status.

In regards to becoming a person of "consequence"....the actions needed to become a person of consequence are pretty much the same thing everywhere in the world.  Coming to Thailand is no more an opportunity to achieve this "goal" than living anywhere else....Thailand is not a land of golden opportunity....you don't get a new life when you arrive here...and most importantly you do not shed your old self the moment you arrive either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you are wrong on both points - here you can make your life how you want it to be. There is so much opportuntiy here. More opportunites have come my way here in 8ish years than in my whole life back home.

[Pudgimelon]

So are these people loosing status by being near you?

Oh my God! you're a brown-noser or what!!!!!

It just sounds so pathetic, trying to judge yourself by the people you sit next to.... I guess the picture sums it up.

If you couldn't get on back home maybe the people here are showing a lack of judgement that wasn't there in the States....after aall you are "johnny Foreigner" and the maynot realise what youare like.....have you shown them your avatar????

What is "class" any way?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe I responded to your previous comments in a respectful, non-derogatory manner. Yes, I made reference to a "barstool", but that was just to state the general fact that the world is rarely changed from the end of a bar, and I don't believe anyone (even you) construed it as a personal attack.

And yet you seem determined to flame and belittle me. Why?

Have I said something that upsets you? Are you now making judgments about the way I live my life while at the same time deriding me for supposedly making judgments about the way you live yours?

I think I've made some legitimate points, as several posters have already agreed. If you want to debate those points, fine, bring it on. But if you just want to call me names because you've got nothing better to say about it, give this thread a pass, OK?

[wilko]

I'm not flaming you, I'm asking you if you consider that your behaviour isn't tantamount to brown-nosing because that what it looks like to me, I'm of the opinion that all brown-nosers and social climbers are barking up the wrong tree.

I found your initial posting wide of the mark and interesting enough to take up.

I also find your costume and comments about who you hob-knob with amusing...I in no way have it in for you, I just find the kind of things (IE weddings etc.) you describe humorous.

Why do you think it's so important to have "status"? or "class"...these IMHO are words used by people who have neither…this of course may not apply to you….I could be wrong....or....

[wilko]

So are these people loosing status by being near you?

Oh my God! you're a brown-noser or what!!!!!

It just sounds so pathetic, trying to judge yourself by the people you sit next to.... I guess the picture sums it up.

If you couldn't get on back home maybe the people here are showing a lack of judgement that wasn't there in the States....after aall you are "johnny Foreigner" and the maynot realise what youare like.....have you shown them your avatar????

What is "class" any way?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe I responded to your previous comments in a respectful, non-derogatory manner. Yes, I made reference to a "barstool", but that was just to state the general fact that the world is rarely changed from the end of a bar, and I don't believe anyone (even you) construed it as a personal attack.

And yet you seem determined to flame and belittle me. Why?

Have I said something that upsets you? Are you now making judgments about the way I live my life while at the same time deriding me for supposedly making judgments about the way you live yours?

I think I've made some legitimate points, as several posters have already agreed. If you want to debate those points, fine, bring it on. But if you just want to call me names because you've got nothing better to say about it, give this thread a pass, OK?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you've already made some judgements of your own......prejudgements even...

Anyhoo, I'm off to work now so you can have a break from me....

[ThaiPauly]

Whats your take on those that came here wealthy enough to enjoy life but eager to make a the most of these so called "opportunities" but fell flat on their face BECAUSE of the way Thai Culture works, then went off to lick their wounds having being burned ,vowing not waste valuable time, money and resourses here again.? Just settle down and enjoy Thailand for what it is.You loose face for sure when you have to lay peple off or make them redundant, so I guess I have lost more "face and status" here than I ever did back home!

This is something that does not bother me much because I tried to embrace Thai business culture but I could not. There are many of you that have and can, but I am unfortunatley not one of them . I see what people call "opportunities" all the time but I am loathe to throw money at them as my experience here tells me not to.

My Wife now runs a small restaurant which I have as little to do with as possible, its not easy to make money, but she is a Thai and thinks and acts like a Thai and is used to doing business the "Thai Way"

My point here is that I may have arrived with all this "status" but because I may have tried to grasp these so called "opportunities" I in fact lost both face and status because I TRIED

I have more Status back home because I ran a very sucessful business and sold it with my status intact. Back home I am not seen as a "failure" but in certain Bangkok circles I am.

I hope somebody can see my reasoning here

[OlRedEyes]

Wth all due respect, it sounds to me like you want to be a big fish in a small pond.

There are many of us here who have come to Thailand to escape the rat race, the social climbing thing. Most I'd say. We do not flaunt our MBA's etc, nor our past achievements. We have no desire to be big fish anymore, in any pond.

Status is not on our agenda. At all. Why come here seeking status. Coz it's easy to achieve? No real challenge is it...

[Pudgimelon]

Why do you think it's so important to have "status"? or "class"...these IMHO are words used by people who have neither…this of course may not apply to you….I could be wrong....or....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sigh, again I will repeat that I am not really concerned with "status" so much as the lost opportunities many of us suffer because we don't see ourselves as existing "within" Thai society and therefore miss out on a chance to really matter here.

Let me turn around what you are saying and ask it back to you in a different way:

If status is so unimportant and seeking it so contemptable, do you think that losing status is inversely laudable and having "low status" somehow better than having high status?

If so, you are just as concerned about status as you claim me to be, just inversely so.

What I've been saying is that in Thailand, by default, Western farang are conferred the opportunity to achieve a status not open to many foreigners. We have it if we want it.

So what's so great about pissing it all away? Why is that so much better than keeping it? Why should we seek out the bottom-most rung of the social ladder? Why is that preferrable than seeking out the top?

It sounds to me as if you have some proletarian conceit about social order and the way things work. Being on the bottom doesn't make you a better man any more than being on the top does.

[Baal]

I agree with what the OP has written in nearly all points. The points I dont agree with, dont really matter as that is his own beliefs.

There are great opportunties in this country, positions that would never be attainable in our home countries. It doesnt have to be a position of power, just some great standing amongst a community who does not know your background or education.

My own story is a little long, so I will leave it out. I will say though, that you should really think about what was written in the first post as it quite factual and thought provoking.

edit - I will say though, if bar girls, late nights, hangovers daily, wearing no shirts going into government buildings, using bad Thai language and being a holiday maker for the rest of your life suits you, well thats fine to. Each to their own.

For the others, put on a shirt, mix in good circles, date some class and have a plan, you will go further here, than you ever could at home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL, you are the most superficial person Ive had the displeasure of reading in a long time.

I could do the same thing anywhere.

If I wanted I could throw on a nice pair of pants, shirt and head on down to the local POLO match trolling for widows.

but this is the really funny bit,

For the others, put on a shirt, mix in good circles, date some class and have a plan, you will go further here, than you ever could at home.

They just opened a male whore house in Vegas, perhaps you should throw on your best GQ clothing and by a ticket to VEGAS.

The first post in a nutshell was a about someone being a total loser in ones home country being able to move somwhere nobody knows him and getting respect he does not deserve because nobody in the new country knows what a loser he is.

You dont have to move to Thailand to do that, all you gotta do is move to another city.

Mix in good circles? lol , yeah that will last a few evenings till somone calls your bluff and you have to pull out your financial statement when your new rich wife sees her credit report shot to shit by the fact that you have a paper trail of misery behind you.

[Baal]

Pudgimelon,

You do appear to be overly concerned with status even though you are doing your best to deny it.  Also you seem to be concerned that people are not becoming people of "consequence" when they arrive in Thailand....this is almost the same as status....just a slightly different twist.  Thinking that farangs could change the destiny of Thailand also is just another shade of status.

In regards to becoming a person of "consequence"....the actions needed to become a person of consequence are pretty much the same thing everywhere in the world.  Coming to Thailand is no more an opportunity to achieve this "goal" than living anywhere else....Thailand is not a land of golden opportunity....you don't get a new life when you arrive here...and most importantly you do not shed your old self the moment you arrive either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you are wrong on both points - here you can make your life how you want it to be. There is so much opportuntiy here. More opportunites have come my way here in 8ish years than in my whole life back home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, Ill call your bluff, give me 5 examples of what YOU consider oppurtunities that have come your way.

I cant wait to here them.

[Noel]

LOL, you are the most superficial person Ive had the displeasure of reading in a long time.

I could do the same thing anywhere.

If I wanted I could throw on a nice pair of pants, shirt and head on down to the local POLO match trolling for widows.

but this is the really funny bit,

For the others, put on a shirt, mix in good circles, date some class and have a plan, you will go further here, than you ever could at home.

They just opened a male whore house in Vegas, perhaps you should throw on your best GQ clothing and by a ticket to VEGAS.

The first post in a nutshell was a about someone being a total loser in ones home country being able to move somwhere nobody knows him and getting respect he does not deserve because nobody in the new country knows what a loser he is.

You dont have to move to Thailand to do that, all you gotta do is move to another city.

Mix in good circles? lol , yeah that will last a few evenings till somone calls your bluff and you have to pull out your financial statement when your new rich wife sees her credit report shot to shit by the fact that you have a paper trail of misery behind you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Baal, you just saved me the trouble of posting my thoughts, which are much the same as yours.

[ThaiPauly]

Wth all due respect, it sounds to me like you want to be a big fish in a small pond.

There are many of us here who have come to Thailand to escape the rat race, the social climbing thing. Most I'd say. We do not flaunt our MBA's etc, nor our past achievements. We have no desire to be big fish anymore, in any pond.

Status is not on our agenda. At all. Why come here seeking status. Coz it's easy to achieve? No real challenge is it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you addressing my post Sir?

[Neeranam]

LOL, you are the most superficial person Ive had the displeasure of reading in a long time.

I could do the same thing anywhere.

If I wanted I could throw on a nice pair of pants, shirt and head on down to the local POLO match trolling for widows.

but this is the really funny bit,

QUOTE

For the others, put on a shirt, mix in good circles, date some class and have a plan, you will go further here, than you ever could at home.

They just opened a male whore house in Vegas, perhaps you should throw on your best GQ clothing and by a ticket to VEGAS.

The first post in a nutshell was a about someone being a total loser in ones home country being able to move somwhere nobody knows him and getting respect he does not deserve because nobody in the new country knows what a loser he is.

You dont have to move to Thailand to do that, all you gotta do is move to another city.

Mix in good circles? lol , yeah that will last a few evenings till somone calls your bluff and you have to pull out your financial statement when your new rich wife sees her credit report shot to shit by the fact that you have a paper trail of misery behind you.

LOL

Pudgimelon, let's see - you have come from being a Part-time English teacher at ECC, that pay 250 baht an hour part-time, and working in a pre-k English program, isn't that nursery? to being some kind of elevated ex-pat, mates with the vice-consul, in just over a year? LOL I didn't think leaders of business sent their kids to ECC.

The god-mother of my daughter, who is Thai, is the great-granddaughter of Henry Alabaster, who was one farang who did very well for himself here, and developed the telegraph system here. She is married to ................... &lt;deleted&gt; i can't say or I'll end up sounding like you.

I've met so many teachers like you, especially from the USA, who have ferraris and shit like that and who are working for 250 baht an hour. Why the need to bullshit? Why the need to try and gain some status in Thailand, on TV?

When I was a teacher(over 10 years), I met a lot of failures in their own countries, who came to Thailand and after a couple of years, when the pink cloud lifted, felt lower than other expats.

Self-righteous anger at other farangs due to their own feelings of inadequacy

Think they were earning enough, weren't attractive to the opposite sex, or doubted their ability to perform socially etc.

It doesn't take a degree in psychology to recognize these guys, who lack a healthy self-image, who are defensive, self-righteous, who are judgmental toward others, and who try to put down the majority as what the really are.

I wish I had a dollar for every wannabe arse-licker who married some lower-middle class boring Thai woman, usually Chinese and thought she was high-so.

Hi-sos just don't marry English teachers, well the ECC kind. I only know of one hi-so girl who married one, in all my years in the "business". She was a granddaughter of King Chulalongkorn, and guess what, she smoked, played pool(very well) and drank beer! So , maybe you should say if they were educated in the West they are different, if they have dark skin they are different, if their parents are farmers, etc - what a ********* ***** you are.

Up to you man, good luck, but I doubt that you will make any lasting impression on Thailand. !

Also, I can't understand why some others thought this was a good post

[Tywais]

Perhaps its an age thing, of the children I mean as in a 5 yr old or a 16 yr old?  I have heard that you never wai children in return and I'm pretty sure thats the case.

I always thought that too. One day I was talking to a close ajarn friend of mine, as I often do about Thai culture, and asked him about waiing children. His comment was that he does return a wai to a child because they may grow up thinking it wasn't important if he didn't. He also stated that different Thais have different view points as to it's appropriateness. I liked his reason for doing it.

[unforgiven]

It is true that I have a few "hot-button" topics on this forum that always trigger a nice long-winded rant from me, but a lot of people are under the mistaken impression that I have some sort of "hang-up" over the topics of sex or drinking.

Actually, that's not quite true.  Personally I don't care if people get loaded and hump like bunnies, its not my business.  But it becomes my business when people behave themselves in public in a way that negatively impacts me.  And the sad reality in Thailand is that all farang are lumped into the same group and stereotyped accordingly.  So the few bad apples (or thousands in this case) end up spoiling it for the rest of us.

It's not so much that I care about losing status myself (I'm quite secure where I am), but it's more that it's such a real pity that we've been given this wonderful gift of a "new life" over here and so many people squander it.  It just seems to me to be such a shameful waste.

Here, let me explain what I mean:

Last year I was chatting with my friend about the custom of "wai'ing".  I wanted to know how to wai, when to wai and who to wai.  Since my friend was the vice consul of the US Embassy at the time, and had been trained by the State Department (his Thai was perfect thanks to our tax dollars ), I figured him to be something of an expert on the topic.

He told me that Thais automatically confer a very high status to farang.  I mean, very high.  We're right up there with teachers and monks in terms of the degree of status we COULD recieve.  So according to him, 90% of the time, we wait until someone wai's us, and then we respond with a polite wai (except to children, whom you don't have to wai).  Elderly people, monks, and your wife/gf's parents still get wai'd first, but for the most part, farang get conferred the highest status in the room and therefore are the last to wai anybody.

DON'T get me wrong.  I'm not saying that you can strut around like a puffed-up peacock and act like you're better than everyone.  I'm only saying that when you first step off the plane, your status is set to "high", not your value as a human being (that part's up to you, and you alone).

If you behave like a feckless git or a pompous a$$, you'll lose face faster than taxi driver on yaa-baa.  Likewise, if you get red-faced drunk in public, date a bar girl, yell at someone in public, disrespect someone's parents, dress dirty/impolitely, or otherwise behave like a fool, you can kiss your status good-bye.

Why does all that irk me so much?  After all, many of you don't care about status, and I'm sure some of you rather enjoy the attention of putting on a public display.

Well, because it's a d_mn shame, that's why.

Many of us (including myself) come from poor backgrounds and we probably never really got a fair shake in our home countries.  We certainly didn't have much of a shot at making an impact on a national or HISTORICAL level.

But here, in this beautiful little country.  We do.  We really do.  We are given such a wonderful gift, and yet sadly many of us choose to just piss it all away.

My dad was a telephone wireman and a carpenter and I went to a public high school.  If I was Thai and came from those exact same circumstances, I'd have almost no status at all and I'd probably consider myself lucky to be living in a shanty and working as a parking lot security guard at Tesco.

But because I'm a farang, I'm automatically accorded the same status that would be given to the highest of the hi-so.  Granted, I can lose it all in about 15 seconds if I'm not careful, but the point is that it's there... if I want it.

Think about it guys, you have to admit that's a pretty cool opportunity.  How often in your life are you given the chance to start completely over, but not at the bottom, rather at the TOP.

Which is why I think it's a bit sad and pathetic that so many people come to this country and promptly throw this gift into the gutter in their headlong rush right back down to the very bottom of the social pecking order.

Collectively, we could wield political, economic, social and historical power equal (or greater) than the Chinese if we put our minds to it.  Maybe not right away, but our children could certainly inherit our positive status and rise to the heights of influence in this country.

You can come here and totally re-invent yourself, transform from a nameless, average joe, to a respected businessman and community leader, perhaps even on a national level.  Of course, I'm not saying that you can b_llsh_t about your past and expect to snow job people into believing you're something you're not.  That's not going to work, period.  Thai people aren't stupid and they can sniff out liars and fakes eventually.

What you can do is change from just another nameless, faceless cubicle warrior into a man (or woman) of consequence.  You can MATTER here.  Doesn't that interest any of you?

And all you have to do is dress the part, aim a bit higher when seeking a mate, and behave in a courteous, humble and polite way (in other words, show some manners).

In return, Thai people will give you that precious, wonderful gift called:  Opportunity.

Anyway, that's the real motivation behind most of my rants.  I know there's really not much I can do to change the way some people think.  They're going to come here and party like 19-year-olds on Spring Break (even if they're really 45) and they aren't going to allow anyone to tell them differently.  Some of them will eventually settle down and raise a family, but that status they lost from their "party days" is gone forever.  Neighbors won't forget the constant stream of girls you used to bring home.  Even if you move, your new neighbors are going to remember the last few farang in their neighborhood who behaved similarly, and they're going to check to see if you have "signs" of a similar past (tattooed, beer-drinking, pool-playing wives/gfs are a dead give-away).

Bah-da-bing-bah-da-boom, you're back to being an average joe, grunting out a living same as you did back home.  Granted, you can probably do it in a more comfortable style than you could back home, but still, that opportunity to really matter for once in your life is gone.

So yeah, I write long-winded rants (like this one) sometimes, but don't confuse my ranting with some prudish hang-up.  I just think it's a real shame that we farang have collectively blown such a wonderful opportunity.

This is probably a unique window in Thai history.  They are on the cusp of becoming an honest-to-god "developed nation".  We have a real chance (either directly or through the values we teach our children) to influence that process.  How often do you get to do something like that?  Influence the HISTORY of a nation?  Think you got a shot of doing that back in the UK or the States?  Fat chance.  But here, you do.

And yet so many people come here and immediately relegate themselves to the sidelines.  Not only that, but they don't care if their actions tarnishes the collective image of all farang in this country (including their own children).  "Self-gratification above all else" is their motto.

'Tis a shame.  A d_mn shame.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you are a frustrated female falang,,,,,,,,I feel fo you.............1 better feel my loins with yours lips....tops!!!

[Mighty Mouse]

As for doing good in Thailand, how do you expect to challenge the hierarchical nature of society and all the corruption and nepotism in this country from a barstool?  That stuff only gets changed if WE take an active and positive role in OUR communities.  Here.  Now.

I hope all of you ex-pats understood what was said here. In your country of birth, you were all useless, hopeless, fools who never achieved anything.

You were not motivated enough to introduce change, had no influence on your government and you were all hovering around the bottom rung of the social ladder. You either didn't recognise or ignored all the opportunities of life in your former homeland.

BUT NOW........*fanfare of trumpets and a drum roll*

You have migrated to a third world country where corruption is rife from the Prime Minister, all the way down through the various levels of government, local government and local communities, right down to the toilet attendant who cheats you over a few baht.

All of a sudden, you can NOW make a HUGE difference. (but not from your bar stool...and certainly not whilst dressed in shorts, thongs and singlet.)

You...er....sorry...."WE" collectively, can become anus lickers, and lick our way up the social ladder to the dizzy heights of the very top rung. (If nothing else, you will get to enjoy the view)

Swap your beer guzzling ways for champagne sipping. (learn to hold the champagne flute with your little finger in the air)

Forget about the pig on a spit, caviar on savoury biscuits is much better. (social standing without gravy dripping down your chin.)

Bar girls are definitely out, so are check-out chicks, waitresses in Sizzler, or any down to earth girl, no matter how attractive they are or how much personality they may have.

You will now be able to hobnob with some toffee nosed female bore, whose family is amongst the upper echelons of society, who would never think of soiling her hands with menial tasks such as cooking, cleaning or doing a days hard work. That's what maids and butlers are for.

......and sex???? Are you kidding???? She will be too busy making a huge impression whilst trying to get up to the next rung on the social ladder to even think about a depraved romp between the sheets.

Join the throng all you ex-pats. Stand tall and united and march as one. Here is your OPPORTUNITY to finally make a name for yourselves.

The downtrodden riff raff on the lower rungs of society will line the streets as you walk past, throw rose petals for you to walk on, admire you, wai you and name sois after you.

This is just the beginning brothers and sisters, next...................

RING, RING, RING....

The alarm clock goes off, waking you.

It was all a MAD dream. *Yawn*

I guess it's back to bar stools, beer, fun filled women and a proven, happy lifestyle.

Oh woe is me.

[chownah]

I agree with what the OP has written in nearly all points. The points I dont agree with, dont really matter as that is his own beliefs.

There are great opportunties in this country, positions that would never be attainable in our home countries. It doesnt have to be a position of power, just some great standing amongst a community who does not know your background or education.

My own story is a little long, so I will leave it out. I will say though, that you should really think about what was written in the first post as it quite factual and thought provoking.

edit - I will say though, if bar girls, late nights, hangovers daily, wearing no shirts going into government buildings, using bad Thai language and being a holiday maker for the rest of your life suits you, well thats fine to. Each to their own.

For the others, put on a shirt, mix in good circles, date some class and have a plan, you will go further here, than you ever could at home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL, you are the most superficial person Ive had the displeasure of reading in a long time.

I could do the same thing anywhere.

If I wanted I could throw on a nice pair of pants, shirt and head on down to the local POLO match trolling for widows.

but this is the really funny bit,

For the others, put on a shirt, mix in good circles, date some class and have a plan, you will go further here, than you ever could at home.

They just opened a male whore house in Vegas, perhaps you should throw on your best GQ clothing and by a ticket to VEGAS.

The first post in a nutshell was a about someone being a total loser in ones home country being able to move somwhere nobody knows him and getting respect he does not deserve because nobody in the new country knows what a loser he is.

You dont have to move to Thailand to do that, all you gotta do is move to another city.

Mix in good circles? lol , yeah that will last a few evenings till somone calls your bluff and you have to pull out your financial statement when your new rich wife sees her credit report shot to shit by the fact that you have a paper trail of misery behind you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<flame removed>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Threatening violence....are you the violent type Tornado? Are your biceps all pumped up and presently on tour? Do you get violent when you're drunk? Rumor has it..............if the rumors are correct then this post of yours should be one more reminder to you that you really need some help.....

Edited December 3, 2005 by RDN

[Tornado]

I dont need help, I say it as I see it, the prick wanted to provoke a reaction and he got it. If your going to have a discussion with me, then fine, if you want to flame me, be ready.

[chownah]

I have PM'd the prick my number. Its guys like this maggot above who every time I hear that crap at a restaurant, I want to reach over and smack ###### out of em.

heres the pricks posts, learn about this knob 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...sult_type=posts

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anger management problem? You might be able to find many people who will tell you what a great guy you are and how that "maggot" deserves it....but....in truth your anger comes from you and not him....seems you do not manage your anger very well.

[OlRedEyes]

With all due respect, it sounds to me like you want to be a big fish in a small pond.

There are many of us here who have come to Thailand to escape the rat race, the social climbing thing. Most I'd say. We do not flaunt our MBA's etc, nor our past achievements. We have no desire to be big fish anymore, in any pond.

Status is not on our agenda. At all. Why come here seeking status. Coz it's easy to achieve? No real challenge is it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you addressing my post Sir?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not at all ThaiPauly. I was commenting on the OP. Probably should just have shut up anyways.

The way this thread is going, I should say "Yea, and what you gonna do about it!!"

Edited December 3, 2005 by OlRedEyes

[chownah]

I dont need help, I say it as I see it, the prick wanted to provoke a reaction and he got it. If your going to have a discussion with me, then fine, if you want to flame me, be ready.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not flaming you....just saying the obvioius. Seems like you want to shoot the messenger....your anger gets out of control really easily....have you had a physical altercation with anyone in the last year?

[Tornado]

I dont need help, I say it as I see it, the prick wanted to provoke a reaction and he got it. If your going to have a discussion with me, then fine, if you want to flame me, be ready.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not flaming you....just saying the obvioius. Seems like you want to shoot the messenger....your anger gets out of control really easily....have you had a physical altercation with anyone in the last year?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I havent actually, but many in my day. I dont have them now as I dont hang around idiots or be near any. Save your couch for someone who cares.

[chownah]

I don't just sit by and watch when someone threatens someone with physical violence.....especially if I have reason to believe that the threat will be carried out if possible. I was taught that this was the good thing to do.....to stand up for what is right and work against the bullies of the world....maybe I'm wrong.....am I wrong to confront someone who is threatening violence...even inviting it by handing out phone numbers? Am I wrong to do this when I have STRONG suspicions that the threatening person has done this before? Am I being a friend to a threatening person by just letting them get away with this disgusting display?