This is meant as a waring to all non-immi-o holders that do border runs every 90 days,

especially for provinces of Nan , Uttradit or Phrae.

I have been reading posts on ThaiVisa for about 5 years now and I wish that I had been warned.

So I'm been living in Thailand for just over 4 years on a non immi -o visa , doing my border

runs every 90 days.

I've been living in Phrae for the last 8 months and my 1 year drivers licence expired, so I need

a residency certificate for applying for a 5 year DL.

The day before I do my borderrun to Mai Sai , I went to Nan Immigration with all the documents

required. There was just this officer who , after I gave him the bills to show that I have stayed

in the same place for the last 8 months , angrily started to to say that he will give me and the

Motel I resided , fines for not reporting that I stayed there.

He wanted to know why I was given a non-o , because I am not married to a Thai , don't work

here and am just below 50 years old.

He wanted to know what I was doing here and got more upset when I told him I was retired at

this age .

Now I know that non-o with a work permit / Thai wife / 50 Y retired (with 800.00B) , have the

1 year visa with no border runs , just the 90 days notification of residence , but the non-o who

have to go out every 90 days don't , right?

He said that it is Thai immigration law and that I should know this. I said that I will ask in Mae Sai

the next day . He called the motel were I stay

and after that he let me go , no residence document and luckily for this time only , no fine .

After the border crossing with the friendly immigration officers, I went to Mae Sai immigration,

were they told me that I only needed the 90 day border crossing and no notification of stay.

You give your address on the arrival card , so it is in the computer.

They wrote a note for the Nan immigration.

Next day I took the bad road to Nan again (1251) , and there were a lot more officers than before,

but the way they treated me was completely different than the friendly's at Mae Sai. It was like

they nearly all had been warned or poisoned again me. Why ??

Reluctantly they started the paper mil for the residency doc . The one on the information desk

wanted me to fill in a document but I didn't understand what he wanted me to write at a specific

question, so he said he will stop because I was being difficult , being a problem....

All the while I was polite , respectfully dressed, not raising my voice , not angry ,neutral trying to

talk in Thai , but they wanted me to speak English.

Then the boss came back and asked me again if I understand the immigration law and that I

needed

to register in the first 24 hours I stayed in one of "his " provinces.

Then I made the mistake of giving him the note from Mae Sai . He called them and said that they

were wrong. He printed out the full immigration act which I had to sign. Of course now he didn't

want to give me the res doc and threatened again with 5000 B fines if I fail to comply.

If I wanted the doc , I had to ask my embassy....

OK, if they give me permission to reside in Thailand , I have to know and comply with

immigration law. I have read it and I understand it , well nearly...

2 times before I have had a residence doc , no problem , always friendly , no-one threatening me

with fines . No immigration office has ever mentioned that I had to notify me staying in their

province. Haven't read anything on ThaiVisa about this for MY type of non-o.

Giving notification is not a problem, you can do it by mail, but within 24 hours??

So a visa run AND notification of residence? I can understand that from when you are given a

residence doc for a DL , they want to be sure that you live there , every 3 months.

But if you don't register , like I was , why this extra notification ?

So I just want to warn foreigners that have a visa like me , who reside in Uttradit , Phrae or

Nan , that immigration in Nan is VERY strict about this.

If you think you are going to need the Nan immigration for residency doc 's or extensions or

re-entries , be sure to notify them of your stay in the first 24 hours of arrival.

I wish I was warned ! I could have stayed in ignorant bliss , or report my stay on time....

So an extra of 250 km on bad roads , good for diesel imports and air quality , and nothing to show

for.

Of course I could just move away from "his" provinces , but I like where I'm staying in Phrae

so I don't want to go.

Because of the long post , an extract of immigration law and comment in the next post.

This is the important part of the immigration law

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply

with the following :

1.about employment

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason that

he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent

official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

3. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within

twenty – four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new

residence is not located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the

police official of the police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of

arrival.

4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such

alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours

from the time of arrival.

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the competent

official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as

possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where

there is an Immigration Office , the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that

office.

In making notification under this Section , the alien may make notification in person or send a

letter of notification to the competent official , in accordance with the regulations prescribed by

the Director General .

WOW ! I feel like I'm on parole ! So every time I go more than 24 hours out of the province of

residence I have to report to the police and to the police where I go to?

Is this realistic ?

Shouldn't I just ask for an ankle bracelet so they can track my every movement?

Are there other immigration offices that enforce these rules as strictly as Nan?

"Are there other immigration offices that enforce these rules as strictly as Nan?" AfaIk Hua Hin is very strict about the 24h too.

Edited January 20, 201214 yr by hanuman2543

This is how I read it:

Section 37(2) Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official.

..

Indication of the address on the arrival card complies with the above requirement.

Section 37(2)

...Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

This notification is made with form TM.28 to the local immigration office. Hardly anybody ever does it, but it would be useful for immigration to always know your current address in case you you need to be contacted in an emergency.

Section 37(3) Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.

In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.

This notification should be made to the local police station, not the local immigration office. Again, hardly anybody ever does it but it would be useful for the reason indicated above. If immigration fouls up, as least the police station has a way to find you in an emergency. I remember the post of a ThaiVisa member who went to his police station to do this report and they had no idea how to handle it; no form exists for it.

Section 37(4) If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival.

Same situation as with Section 37(3)

Anybody interested in the full text of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 can find it here:

English translation: http://www.thaivisa....Act-EN.pdf.html

Thai original text: http://www.thaivisa....Act-TH.pdf.html

OP mentions he' staying in Motel. I believe all motels and hotels have to report their guests by law to local police or perhaps all the way to immigration every day?

So if your staying in motel or hotel your fine, they report on your behalf.

Hotels, motels, guest houses, etc. must report the arrival of guests to the local immigration office with formTM.30 "Notification Form for House Master, Owner, or the Possessor of The Residence Where Aliens Have Stay". Therefore, theoretically your address gets recorded three times, ie twice with immigration and once with the local police station. A lot of redundancy built into the system.

I never report to the police station, my wife (owner of the residence where I stay) never reports to immigration, so my address got recorded only once, with the arrival card, on my past 69 visits to Thailand.

"Are there other immigration offices that enforce these rules as strictly as Nan?" AfaIk Hua Hin is very strict about the 24h too.

is't new for me. I stay more 6 years in Hua Hin and changed once my address of residence and declared this to the immigration. I have 1 year multiple and go out and in few times per year; i do nothing about 24 hrs, I report 90 days after las come back, if I not travel in immigration. Even I try once declare guest in my home, the officer meant "no need, not important". After my experience HH immigration is one of the most competent, helpful and friendly too if your beheave is correct!

Hua Hin was famous for it a year or two ago. Did perhaps an officer get transferred from Hua Hin to Nan and he is starting this nonsense there now?

Op how did you get the non 'o' ?, is it one of the last ones issued in UK ?, and it looks like a letter from your embassy for your driving licence, As i see it, you have reported your address at the border, and as long as you have not beeen absent from the motel for 24 hours, you are not in breach of any reporting rules, the only thing i can see is the form tm 30 has or has not been submitted ( are they ever) but thats up to the motel, You have no reason to go to nan immigration, so i would stay away.

OP wrote: "He wanted to know why I was given a non-o". Good question, as far as I can see, you are not qualified in any way.

Officer probably getting tired of farangs trying to outsmart the law.

Challenger99. Agree with you that HH immigration is excellent service. Do your homework, be normally polite and you never have any problems.

Regarding the notification of one's address to the local police station I forgot to mention this part of the Immigration Act:

Section 37(5)

...

The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as prescribed by the Director General.

...

I have never seen the "conditions as prescribed by the Director General", which would be the Director General of the Police Department, referred to in the above quote. If anybody should be adventures enough to ask for and obtain it from the immigration office I should be grateful for a copy, even if only in Thai. It is probably an Order of the Royal Thai Police Bureau (คำสั่งสำนักงานตำรวจแห่งชาติ), perhaps -- but not necessarily -- published in the Royal Gazette, and in its preamble it would make reference to Section 35 of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522

I could imagine that this Police Order says that the notification to the police station is not necessary for foreigners whose permission to stay is based on arrival with a visa or visa-exempt, which would limit the requirement to Permanent Residents.

FlorC, you have already made your Nan immigration officers lose face by having a Mae Sai officer expose their ignorance, so I suggest it should not be you to ask for a copy of this Police Order at your local immigration office.

Calling SunbeltAsia: have you got a way to lay your hands on this Police Order? Not Order 777/2551, which I have already, but another Police Order whose number I do not know, also issued under the authority of Section 35 of the Immigration Act, but dealing with the exemption to notify the address to the local police station.

OP wrote: "He wanted to know why I was given a non-o". Good question, as far as I can see, you are not qualified in any way....

Logical answer: "Because I applied for it"

Soi41, "O" stands for other, ie a purpose to visit Thailand other than the purposes given for all other types of visa. It is the restrictive guidelines apparently issued recently by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that now prevents consulates from issuing the multiple-entry non-O visa to people who wish to travel to Thailand frequently within a 12-month period for a duration of more than 30 days per visit for the purpose of tourism.

Sa because Nan is abeautiful city and province probably second only to C Rai in IMHO

A corollary of the "flexible" nature of reward and advancement hereabouts is the lack of consistency between offices.

This is how I read it:

Section 37(2) Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official.

..

Indication of the address on the arrival card complies with the above requirement.

Section 37(2)

...Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

This notification is made with form TM.28 to the local immigration office. Hardly anybody ever does it, but it would be useful for immigration to always know your current address in case you you need to be contacted in an emergency.

Section 37(3) Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.

In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.

This notification should be made to the local police station, not the local immigration office. Again, hardly anybody ever does it but it would be useful for the reason indicated above. If immigration fouls up, as least the police station has a way to find you in an emergency. I remember the post of a ThaiVisa member who went to his police station to do this report and they had no idea how to handle it; no form exists for it.

Section 37(4) If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival.

Same situation as with Section 37(3)

Anybody interested in the full text of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 can find it here:

English translation: http://www.thaivisa....Act-EN.pdf.html

Thai original text: http://www.thaivisa....Act-TH.pdf.html

Like you say , hardly anybody does this.

Also , you state "in case of an emergency " , what emergency ? Isn't that why we have cellphones?

Immigration knows my number. If they want to know where I am ,they just call and ask to report myself at the nearest police station.

Unless you have a officer (Nan) that like to give you a fine ( 5000 , not much to worry.

Now if I go to the border , I always go for 2 days out of the province...I have to report that?

If I go to Bangkok to do some shopping a couple of days before I go to Europe , I have to report?

I feel like a criminal on parole .

OP mentions he' staying in Motel. I believe all motels and hotels have to report their guests by law to local police or perhaps all the way to immigration every day?

So if your staying in motel or hotel your fine, they report on your behalf.

My motel reported at some local (Phrae) authority , they did not send it to Nan immigration. After the threat of fines , they now do it on the Nan immi website directly.

The reporting of a farang staying by the hotel/motel/or what ever owner, is separate from the notification that the farang has to do. If I arrive I must let immigration know by going to the local police and sending it to immigration or driving ( 200 km ) to them...

Good luck if your living in south Uttradit...

Op how did you get the non 'o' ?, is it one of the last ones issued in UK ?, and it looks like a letter from your embassy for your driving licence, As i see it, you have reported your address at the border, and as long as you have not beeen absent from the motel for 24 hours, you are not in breach of any reporting rules, the only thing i can see is the form tm 30 has or has not been submitted ( are they ever) but thats up to the motel, You have no reason to go to nan immigration, so i would stay away.

Many posts on TV here, you can read that it varies with which embassy or consulate in which country , where you apply , if they are very strict or are easier to get a non-0 . No it was not in the UK.

Like in post 12 "Maestro " : Logical answer: "Because I applied for it"

In my case , I show them the more than enough money I have in Thai banks so that I am financially no threat for Thailand.

About the embassy doc for the DL, Not only am I far from BKK, and it costs a lot more at the embassy AND one big brother,

(Nan immigration) , is more than enough. My embassy does not need to know were I live.

In case of emergency back home or here there are cell phones, skype,...

For terrorist warnings, we've got the USA....

Indeed I like to stay away from Nan , but next year I'll be 50 , and will need to go there to turn my non-o multiple entries into

a 1 year retirement visa, or extension...

And I'll bet they will make trouble again , like were the 800.000 B must be, savingsaccount , or in funds ,....

And now that they get the motels reports , no way out of reporting my every move...

Edited January 21, 201214 yr by FlorC

Regarding the notification of one's address to the local police station I forgot to mention this part of the Immigration Act:

Section 37(5)

...

The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as prescribed by the Director General.

...

I have never seen the "conditions as prescribed by the Director General", which would be the Director General of the Police Department, referred to in the above quote. If anybody should be adventures enough to ask for and obtain it from the immigration office I should be grateful for a copy, even if only in Thai. It is probably an Order of the Royal Thai Police Bureau (คำสั่งสำนักงานตำรวจแห่งชาติ), perhaps -- but not necessarily -- published in the Royal Gazette, and in its preamble it would make reference to Section 35 of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522

I could imagine that this Police Order says that the notification to the police station is not necessary for foreigners whose permission to stay is based on arrival with a visa or visa-exempt, which would limit the requirement to Permanent Residents.

FlorC, you have already made your Nan immigration officers lose face by having a Mae Sai officer expose their ignorance, so I suggest it should not be you to ask for a copy of this Police Order at your local immigration office.

Calling SunbeltAsia: have you got a way to lay your hands on this Police Order? Not Order 777/2551, which I have already, but another Police Order whose number I do not know, also issued under the authority of Section 35 of the Immigration Act, but dealing with the exemption to notify the address to the local police station.

Thanks for an interesting point. The Thai immigration act , the Nan immi "so kindly " printed out for me , is the same as the one you find on their website and others. And it does not state "conditions as prescribed by the Director General" .

Yes I don't see myself driving up there to ask for that , because it would mean that I still doubt his "law " and try to find way out of it.

Even if the conditions as prescribed by the Director General make this distinction , I wouldn't dare to tell him.

He would lose more face , and I don't want to get blacklisted...

Edited January 21, 201214 yr by FlorC

OP wrote: "He wanted to know why I was given a non-o". Good question, as far as I can see, you are not qualified in any way....

Logical answer: "Because I applied for it"

Soi41, "O" stands for other, ie a purpose to visit Thailand other than the purposes given for all other types of visa. It is the restrictive guidelines apparently issued recently by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that now prevents consulates from issuing the multiple-entry non-O visa to people who wish to travel to Thailand frequently within a 12-month period for a duration of more than 30 days per visit for the purpose of tourism.

How recently?

Does that mean that due to restrictive guidelines , I won't get a non-0 multiple entries anymore?

That is a big gap to fill between my return in june and my 50 th birtday in 2013 ....

I had a problem with the Nan office three years ago. The big boss there tried to extort a 3,000 baht "investigation fee" out of me. I ask for a government reciept and he said he could not provide it. I said no receipt, no money. He told me to wait in the outer office. I immediately called immigration in Bangkok, noted that the sign on the wall said something like "Do not pay more than 1,900 baht," and asked why they were trying to force me to pay a 3,000 baht investigation fee with no reciept. They said they would look into it. After awhile, the Nan office phones started ringing and my problem went away, although if looks could kill, I wouldn't be writing this.

I live in Phitsanulok, and thankfully a new office opened there the following year. I was not looking froward to a return visit to Nan -- motorcycle riding there, great, immigration office, not so good. The folks in the Phitsanulok immigration office are real decent.

Since we are talking about human nature and whims here I will add this. Went to Chiang mai immigration last week took all od 15 min. to complete papaer work for extension of stay. This extension given 12 days in advance of expiration.

A fella I know went several days later and was told they couldn't do his extension yesterday, Friday, because too soon, come back next week we can do, expires on Wed. the 25th, no fine if you over stay. When he told me this I couldn't believe it was the same office. Maybe there was something he missed in the telling of this maybe a resonable explanation. He will go back next week and try again.

Op how did you get the non 'o' ?, is it one of the last ones issued in UK ?, and it looks like a letter from your embassy for your driving licence, As i see it, you have reported your address at the border, and as long as you have not beeen absent from the motel for 24 hours, you are not in breach of any reporting rules, the only thing i can see is the form tm 30 has or has not been submitted ( are they ever) but thats up to the motel, You have no reason to go to nan immigration, so i would stay away.

Many posts on TV here, you can read that it varies with which embassy or consulate in which country , where you apply , if they are very strict or are easier to get a non-0 . No it was not in the UK.

Like in post 12 "Maestro " : Logical answer: "Because I applied for it"

In my case , I show them the more than enough money I have in Thai banks so that I am financially no threat for Thailand.

About the embassy doc for the DL, Not only am I far from BKK, and it costs a lot more at the embassy AND one big brother,

(Nan immigration) , is more than enough. My embassy does not need to know were I live.

In case of emergency back home or here there are cell phones, skype,...

For terrorist warnings, we've got the USA....

Indeed I like to stay away from Nan , but next year I'll be 50 , and will need to go there to turn my non-o multiple entries into

a 1 year retirement visa, or extension...

And I'll bet they will make trouble again , like were the 800.000 B must be, savingsaccount , or in funds ,....

And now that they get the motels reports , no way out of reporting my every move...

Thanks for that helpful reply, its nice to see other members sharing information , regarding the issue of visa's to help other members in their quest to do likewise, that is the whole point of the forum, to help others, i will remember how helpful you have been.

FlorC:"And I bet they will make trouble again, like where the 800.000 B must be,savingsaccount, or in funds...."

If you care to read the law, you signed, it clearly states: Savingsaccount. Doesn't matter if you have millions in funds, the law says the 800.000 B have to be in a savingsaccount at least 2 months before your first application. Do your homework, be a little humble and I am sure that your visits to immigration will be a positive experience. Like it or not, "they" have the power, and to challenge that is IMO plain stupid.

OP wrote: "He wanted to know why I was given a non-o". Good question, as far as I can see, you are not qualified in any way....

Logical answer: "Because I applied for it"

Soi41, "O" stands for other, ie a purpose to visit Thailand other than the purposes given for all other types of visa. It is the restrictive guidelines apparently issued recently by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that now prevents consulates from issuing the multiple-entry non-O visa to people who wish to travel to Thailand frequently within a 12-month period for a duration of more than 30 days per visit for the purpose of tourism.

How recently?

Does that mean that due to restrictive guidelines , I won't get a non-0 multiple entries anymore?

That is a big gap to fill between my return in june and my 50 th birtday in 2013 ....

I believe it started three or four months ago.

Thanks for an interesting point. The Thai immigration act , the Nan immi "so kindly " printed out for me , is the same as the one you find on their website and others. And it does not state "conditions as prescribed by the Director General" .

Yes I don't see myself driving up there to ask for that , because it would mean that I still doubt his "law " and try to find way out of it.

Even if the conditions as prescribed by the Director General make this distinction , I wouldn't dare to tell him.

He would lose more face , and I don't want to get blacklisted...

Your are right. You don't want to upset your local immigration office any further. Therefore, only for the record, the Immigration Act on the website of the Immigration Bureau also has that sentence about "conditions as prescribed by the Director General". See the screenshot below, with my red annotations.

FlorC:"And I bet they will make trouble again, like where the 800.000 B must be,savingsaccount, or in funds...."

If you care to read the law, you signed, it clearly states: Savingsaccount. Doesn't matter if you have millions in funds, the law says the 800.000 B have to be in a savingsaccount at least 2 months before your first application. Do your homework, be a little humble and I am sure that your visits to immigration will be a positive experience. Like it or not, "they" have the power, and to challenge that is IMO plain stupid.

Again a matter of the strictness of the immigration . I've read on T.V. that some immigration offices

don't care whether you have the money on a savings account of fixed deposits of fixed funds.

800.000 B on an savings account gives you 0,75 % , fixed fund now about 3 % for 6 months.

From a S A you can get the money off the next day after you apply , the fixed ones , are fixed for the duration. So it seems that fixed accounts or funds would be safer for Thailand , than just the 2 month before application on a S.A.

The reason for this post was not to find a loophole or challenge their power , but to warn others that like me thought the border runs were enough , don't get the same treatment like me or worse: fines .

Thanks for an interesting point. The Thai immigration act , the Nan immi "so kindly " printed out for me , is the same as the one you find on their website and others. And it does not state "conditions as prescribed by the Director General" .

Yes I don't see myself driving up there to ask for that , because it would mean that I still doubt his "law " and try to find way out of it.

Even if the conditions as prescribed by the Director General make this distinction , I wouldn't dare to tell him.

He would lose more face , and I don't want to get blacklisted...

Your are right. You don't want to upset your local immigration office any further. Therefore, only for the record, the Immigration Act on the website of the Immigration Bureau also has that sentence about "conditions as prescribed by the Director General". See the screenshot below, with my red annotations.

Yes i've read it before , but non of the 14 activities really apply to me.

If I stay 3 month at the time in the same place , I can't give them "touring or sporting " as a reason.

I don't think that "Study or observation " of Thai Motel life , will qualify...

I had a problem with the Nan office three years ago. The big boss there tried to extort a 3,000 baht "investigation fee" out of me. I ask for a government reciept and he said he could not provide it. I said no receipt, no money. He told me to wait in the outer office. I immediately called immigration in Bangkok, noted that the sign on the wall said something like "Do not pay more than 1,900 baht," and asked why they were trying to force me to pay a 3,000 baht investigation fee with no reciept. They said they would look into it. After awhile, the Nan office phones started ringing and my problem went away, although if looks could kill, I wouldn't be writing this.

I live in Phitsanulok, and thankfully a new office opened there the following year. I was not looking froward to a return visit to Nan -- motorcycle riding there, great, immigration office, not so good. The folks in the Phitsanulok immigration office are real decent.

The number of the Bangkok immigration you called , is that a specific number or the usual number

on their website? Do they speak and understand English well ?

It would be good to know for the future when I get myself in a similar position as you were.

Fixed deposit savings accounts allow withdrawal, but with loss of interest. Normal savings accounts are like a current account but without checking. You have direct ATM access. Both are normally accepted. Fund type accounts are not accepted.

The whole idea of the 800k is so that you can use it so if it were not available it could not be used and would not be accepted. This is not a deposit system like Malaysia or Philippines. It is just alternative proof of being able to support your stay to the 65k per month method.

I have come across this guy at the Nan office. Definitely the same person.

It seems like he is a power junky. I went in for some simple info and he went completely nuts because I was 'bothering him'. Wasted no time in asking if I'd 'registered' within 24 hours. Again I was totally courteous and calm throughout - and politely dressed.

Very scary.