Visa Advice Please

[Canuck50]

I am Canadian, age 61, semi-retired and doing rotational work in Russia for a period of approximately 1 year to 18 months. When not working in Russia, I want to be in Thailand. My work schedule is not fixed and can vary considerably but approximately 6 weeks in, 6 weeks out. When I finish working in Russia, I plan to live in Thailand permanently, and expect to not work or conduct business in Thailand at that time but I could change my mind.

I have heard talk about Retirement (O-A), Ed (O-ED) and Business (O-A). Can someone please provide their thoughts on which fits my situation best?

What is the best way to obtain the recommended visa? It seems to me that the O-A can be difficult with regard to timing of the funds being depositted in the Thai bank, and also that I may not be in Thailand for more than 6 weeks at a time.

Would they accept my foreign income (substantial) instead of the money on deposit requirement? I have heard differnt stories on this such as "if I am on a retirement visa I can not work even outside of Thailand and also since I am retired, income from work is not considered but only pension income would."

Must I apply for any of these while still in Canada or can I travel to Thai on a "permit on arrival" or "60 day tourist visa" and convert while there? Failing that, would a run to Malaysia do it?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

[lopburi3]

Right now being over age 50 with money in the bank/income I would try for a multi entry non immigrant O visa rather than the O-A as there would not be a need for police paper or medical but that would likely only be available from an honorary Consulate. That visa allows free entry/exit for one year for up to 90 day stay each time. You can obtain the long stay O-A as nobody is checking on income of people on such entry and if not brought into country in year earned it would not be taxed in any case under current policy.

[Canuck50]

Right now being over age 50 with money in the bank/income I would try for a multi entry non immigrant O visa rather than the O-A as there would not be a need for police paper or medical but that would likely only be available from an honorary Consulate. That visa allows free entry/exit for one year for up to 90 day stay each time. You can obtain the long stay O-A as nobody is checking on income of people on such entry and if not brought into country in year earned it would not be taxed in any case under current policy.

OK, thanks but I thought a non-O had to be based on one of a number of reasons and I thought that retirement (O-A) was the only one on the list that applies to me, unless I enrol in a language school and get a "ED". I do not have a letter of offer from an employer for a "B" visa. How can I just get a blanket type "O" valid for a year without an appropriate sun-type?

[lopburi3]

To check on retirement is often allowed. If not the O-A would be fine to start and you could then extend that as normal during last 30 days of permitted stay (work permitting). A single entry O visa would be harder for you to convert due to your work schedule as extension application is normally only accepted during last 30 days of the 90 day permitted to stay period - but you might be able to use a re-entry permit for work/return to get into that range. But explain your situation to a Consulate and see if they can issue a multi entry O visa.

[Canuck50]

To check on retirement is often allowed. If not the O-A would be fine to start and you could then extend that as normal during last 30 days of permitted stay (work permitting). A single entry O visa would be harder for you to convert due to your work schedule as extension application is normally only accepted during last 30 days of the 90 day permitted to stay period - but you might be able to use a re-entry permit for work/return to get into that range. But explain your situation to a Consulate and see if they can issue a multi entry O visa.

OK, Thanks. Do you know if there is any way to get a work permit without having a job or letter of offer from a company in Thailand? I have been trying to get an AMEX Platinum Thai Airways card and although I already have an HSBC Thai card, they said they would/could not give me the AMEX unless I got a work permit to show them. They said it is a Bank of Thailand regulation. Like I said, I have lots of income outside of Thailand but no immeddiate plans to work there.

[lopburi3]

You can not have a work permit without a job in Thailand that supports it.

For cards just get in your home country - they can change payment address to Thailand if that is what you want. But that discussion belongs in the banking section.

[Canuck50]

ok, thanks.

[IMA_FARANG]

Some points:

1. At your age you are over 50 and therefore meet that requirement.

2. If your monthly INCOME is enough (over 65,000 Baht or about $2200 U.S. dollars) you can qualify for a retirement visa/extension based on that without any need to show a balance in a Thai bank account. You may need to have this certified by your embessy here in Thailand, and your embessy may require you to show proof (i.e. financial or bank letter) to verify that before they will verify. But it's possible to do it that way.

3. Wnen you are retired you are not allowed to work in Thailand....but I don't think they would care about work outside of Thailand, because work outside of Thailand has no Thai tax obligation anyway as long as it is entirely performed outside of Thailand.

4. I would attempt to apply initially for a non O visa in Canada at a Thai consulate and use the reason for application as "to enter Thailand for the purpose of completing the required steps for retirement there"....or some such wording. What you want them to understand is that you are going to Thailand to retire, want to have a non O visa to make it easier to do that, and will apply for retirement at your local immigration there for retirement visa/extension. They may not agree with that, or they may give you a single entry 90 day non O visa...I don't think they will allow a non O multi-entry good for a year. If they will not give you a non o visa....then try for a tourist visa. You can convert a tourist visa into a non O in Thailand. A single entry tourist visa will give you 60 days on entry and can be extended in Thailand for another 30 days....so 90 days total. Use that 90 days to get all your paperwork together, and in the last 30 days go to the local immigration office with all the required paperwork and apply for your retirement visa/extension.

5. When you do get your retirement, you must do 90 reporting. The immigration will explain that.

6. When you are retired and on 90 day reporting, if you leave the country for any reason, you must have a exit/re-entry permit to keep your retirement visa current. That can be done at immigration.

[QED]

Some points: 1. At your age you are over 50 and therefore meet that requirement. 2. If your monthly INCOME is enough (over 65,000 Baht or about $2200 U.S. dollars) you can qualify for a retirement visa/extension based on that without any need to show a balance in a Thai bank account. You may need to have this certified by your embessy here in Thailand, and your embessy may require you to show proof (i.e. financial or bank letter) to verify that before they will verify. But it's possible to do it that way. 3. Wnen you are retired you are not allowed to work in Thailand....but I don't think they would care about work outside of Thailand, because work outside of Thailand has no Thai tax obligation anyway as long as it is entirely performed outside of Thailand. 4. I would attempt to apply initially for a non O visa in Canada at a Thai consulate and use the reason for application as "to enter Thailand for the purpose of completing the required steps for retirement there"....or some such wording. What you want them to understand is that you are going to Thailand to retire, want to have a non O visa to make it easier to do that, and will apply for retirement at your local immigration there for retirement visa/extension. They may not agree with that, or they may give you a single entry 90 day non O visa...I don't think they will allow a non O multi-entry good for a year. If they will not give you a non o visa....then try for a tourist visa. You can convert a tourist visa into a non O in Thailand. A single entry tourist visa will give you 60 days on entry and can be extended in Thailand for another 30 days....so 90 days total. Use that 90 days to get all your paperwork together, and in the last 30 days go to the local immigration office with all the required paperwork and apply for your retirement visa/extension. 5. When you do get your retirement, you must do 90 reporting. The immigration will explain that. 6. When you are retired and on 90 day reporting, if you leave the country for any reason, you must have a exit/re-entry permit to keep your retirement visa current. That can be done at immigration.

Mostly good advice, however if the OP is leaving every 6 weeks he will not have to do 90 day reports until he retires properly in 12-18 months.

[lopburi3]

The issue is he is not in Thailand to apply for extension of stay as has to leave/return at a schedule he can not control. Nor would he be concerned with 90 day address reporting while having such employment as he is never here that long.

[Canuck50]

That raises two questions:

1. Is it clear that the 65,000 Baht monthly income requirement is met by income from foreign employment? I asked my HSBC bank manager in BKK that and he said he understood that employment income was not accepted, only pension income.

2. What is the timelines for applying for and receiving the retirement visa/extension in Thailand? I am not likely to be in Thailand for a full 3 months between work rotations and likely only 5 or 6 weeks. Can I get the extension in that time?

[lopburi3]

1. The requirement is Embassy letter of income/pension. What your Embassy allows will apply.

2. Normally application only accepted during last 30 days of a 90 day non immigrant visa entry. You might be able to get around that with a visa exempt or tourist visa entry and conversion at immigration as they sometimes allow both conversion and extension in one go. But not always. Home country multi entry O-A is my recommendation if you can not obtain multi entry non immigrant O visa until you actually retire.

[Canuck50]

OK, so I have decided to apply here in Canada for the multi-entry O-A. But now I have a question about timing. The visa application asks for a "Date of Arrival" and "Flight Number" for arrival in Thailand. The problem is I do not know yet when I will travel there, could be anytime between March 1 and July 1. I will likely return to Russia for another work term and then go to Thai directly from there, so I want to get my visa in place here now before I leave. I called the Thai Consulate in Vancouver and said I am uncertain of my travel date and was told just to pick a approximate date.

My question is, what are the ramifications of doing this? If I pick a long date, say July 1 and then decide to go sooner, can I do so or must I then wait till July 1? If I pick a short date, say March 1 but then don't go to July, will I loose months on my visa or be otherwise restricted in some way?

Another question is that the girl I spoke with at the consulate said I could qualify for the minimum bank deposit of 800,000 Baht based on a letter from my Canadian bank for deposits/investments I hold in Canada. Has anyone heard of this befoore or have any knowledge as to if she is correct? I would hate to go down that path only to find my application is rejected and I must then move funds to Thailand and wait 3 months!

[lopburi3]

The money would normally be in your application country for a non immigrant O-A visa so she is right. You do not want to obtain the visa until close to your travel date if you want max usage for the multi entry provision. Your visa one year validity time starts on the day it is issued (so if issued March 1 you could make last entry in February 2113). There is no problem/issue with using guess dates.

[wayned]

If the visa was issued 1 March and you immediately went to work in Russia and did not enter Thailand until 15 April, you would loose that time. But you could leave and re-enter as many times as you wanted until the expiration date of the visa. Each time you re-enetered you would get 1 year permission to stay. On your last entry, just before the visa expired, you would get 1 year. At that time you would need to purchase a multiple entry re-entry permit - cost 3800 baht - so that your could leave and re-enter at will during that year. Your visa will have expired. By doing this you could extend your stay in Thailand until February 2114. Almost two years from date of issue. You could leave your money in a foreign bank until the last three months where you would have to transfer 800000 baht to a Thai bank, or get a letter of income from your embassy, if you wanted to extend your stay for another year without going home and applying for a new O/A visa.

[Canuck50]

OK, thanks for the great responses!!!

[Canuck50]

Well, I got my multi O-A in Canada and have some related re-entry permit questions. Here are my details:

Multi- O-A issue date: Feb 9, 2012

Enter Before Date: Feb 8, 2013.

Entered Thailand: Aug 10, 2012

Permission to stay: till Aug 9, 2013

Now I must return to Russia for work and will leave on October 9. I hope to return to Thailand about December 24 (which would reset my 1 year permission to stay) and plan to stay for 6 or 8 weeks before returning for another work term in Russia about Feb 1, 2013. I understand that if I do in fact return to Thai on Dec 24 then my original visa multi-entry provision will allow me re-entry. But my work schedule in Russia has been irregular and there is a chance plans will change and I might have to stay in Russia beyond the expiry date of my visa (Feb 8, 2013).

If that happened, where would that leave me? It would appear that I would not have re-entry permission from my visa multi-entry (expired). I assume I could buy another multi re-entry permit before I leave on Oct. 9 just in case, but that seems to really screw things up because the new one would overlap the one already built in to my visa (unless I can defer start date of new re-entry permit) and it would not sync with the date of my permission to stay in either scenario.

Also, where does one get the re-entry permit here? Can it be bought at the airport on the way out or must I attend some immigration office in BKK ahead of time?

Can anyone kindly give me some advice and suggestions?

[lopburi3]

It is really up to you if you want to buy the re-entry permit but expect if you do they will require that it be used for new entry rather than your original visa so will only provide stay until August. If you expect return will be later than Feb 8 suspect that is your best choice as you have proof to allow flight without a visa or onward ticket that might be required if later than Feb 8. It is really easy for most people to extend for requirement on any type of entry but for you this might not be the case as it does require at least a 60 day stay to get into extension range on the required non immigrant visa entry of 90 days.

[ubonjoe]

It's a little difficult to answer you post because it is not a normal case.

If you do not return until after your visa runs out you would only get 30 day entry unless you get a new visa.

I think the best option would be to make a trip to a immigration office and try to explain your problem and get a re-entry permit for your current entry.

[Canuck50]

OK, since I have the retirement visa now, I do not want to let it lapse and have to re-apply at all costs. So please tell me if I understand correctly.

If I return before Feb. 8, I am allowed re-entry based on my multi-entry on my visa which will not yet expire. I will refresh my permit to stay for one year and then prior to leaving again, I would buy a new re-entry permit.

If I return after Feb 8 without getting an additional re-entry permit before I leave, then I am SOL and coming in on a 30 day entry and I would need to re-apply for new retirement visa.

If I get e new re-entry permit before I leave on Oct.9, I am covered for if I return before Feb 8 or after, but I just loose some cost by under-utilizing re-entry permits.

Am I right? Also, where can I get to immigration. Should I do it at the airport on my way out or somewhere in BKK?

[lopburi3]

You would not need a new retirement visa. You would just need to convert to non immigrant entry at 2,000 baht if you can financially qualify for retirement extension of stay and then extend on yearly basis. The only difference between O-A visa and extension is that money would have to be in Thailand or letter of income issued by Embassy in Thailand. There would not be any need for medical or police check again.

Re-entry will cover from issue until Aug 9, 2013

Best to obtain at Bangkok Immigration Chiang Watanna if living in Bangkok to be sure of no last minute hitch at airport where there is a desk to obtain from 06-2400 after check-in but prior to immigration processing.

[Canuck50]

OK, since I have the retirement visa now, I do not want to let it lapse and have to re-apply at all costs. So please tell me if I understand correctly.

If I return before Feb. 8, I am allowed re-entry based on my multi-entry on my visa which will not yet expire. I will refresh my permit to stay for one year and then prior to leaving again, I would buy a new re-entry permit.

If I return after Feb 8 without getting an additional re-entry permit before I leave, then I am SOL and coming in on a 30 day entry and I would need to re-apply for new retirement visa.

If I get e new re-entry permit before I leave on Oct.9, I am covered for if I return before Feb 8 or after, but I just loose some cost by under-utilizing re-entry permits.

Am I right? Also, where can I get to immigration. Should I do it at the airport on my way out or somewhere in BKK?

You would not need a new retirement visa. You would just need to convert to non immigrant entry at 2,000 baht if you can financially qualify for retirement extension of stay and then extend on yearly basis. The only difference between O-A visa and extension is that money would have to be in Thailand or letter of income issued by Embassy in Thailand. There would not be any need for medical or police check again.

Re-entry will cover from issue until Aug 9, 2013

Best to obtain at Bangkok Immigration Chiang Watanna if living in Bangkok to be sure of no last minute hitch at airport where there is a desk to obtain from 06-2400 after check-in but prior to immigration processing.

OK, thanks. Some of the terminology seems quite confusing. So if I stay out beyond Feb. 8 and then return without previously buying another re-entry permit, how would I do as you suggest? I would be returning directly from Russia so would I "convert to non immigrant entry at 2,000 baht with retirement extension of stay" at the airport on arrival? Or would I get a 30 day stamp on arrival and then convert my permission to stay at immigration later?

[lopburi3]

You would get the 30 day visa exempt entry and have to visit immigration as soon as you can with proof of meeting the financials conditions (800k in account you name here or 65k per month letter from Embassy or combination to meet 800k per year). The money could be just deposited as this is just for the visa at 2,000 baht additional fee and application should be made with 15 days or more remaining on entry (they may allow down to 11 days but that might only be for 15 day visa exempt entry). After being here 60 days on the non immigrant entry you can then do normal retirement extension of stay.

[Canuck50]

OK, that might be a problem as I only anticipate being here 5 or 6 weeks on that trip, so under the 60 days required! Maybe I am better off just spending the money for a new re-entry permit and then I am covered for all cases. Thanks for your advice!