The Pseudoephedrine 'Crackdown'

[Ijustwannateach]

Does anyone know the actual nature of the current vendetta against pseudoephedrine and how it is legally enacted? Aside from finding it highly annoying personally, and finding the official explanation (that it is a near precursor of amphetamine production and therefore contributes to the drug trade, which of course has nothing to do with imports from Myanmar) vapid and unconvincing, how exactly is it phrased?

One reason I wonder is that I have come across one medication still apparently on official sale in many pharmacies which contains it- not that I'm complaining about at least having one choice- and it contains 30mg only (about half the amount that was in Actifed tablets here). It couldn't possibly be that the real reason for the new regulation would be to eliminate the competition of this locally made, less effective product, now could it?

[fdimike]

The locally available over the counter medication Clarinase has both pseudophedrine and a non-drowsy antihistime in a 12 hour tablet. There is also another non-drowsy med called Telfast D similar to Clarinase which is available from most any Ears, Nose & Throat Dr but not a pharmacy. The same applies to pseudophedrine on its own which is available ONLY from a ears, nose and throat Dr.

The paranoia surrounding pseudophedrine is as you say and is being driven by the America Drug Enforcement Agency which has its tentacles all over the place.

[wpcoe]

The paranoia surrounding pseudophedrine is as you say and is being driven by the America Drug Enforcement Agency which has its tentacles all over the place.

But, yet, pseudophedrine is widely available over the counter in the USA?

[Tywais]

The paranoia surrounding pseudophedrine is as you say and is being driven by the America Drug Enforcement Agency which has its tentacles all over the place.

But, yet, pseudophedrine is widely available over the counter in the USA?

Actually around 41 states have regulations in place governing it. Also covered under the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005 which became active in 2006. So it's not 'over the counter' per se but 'behind the counter' which is really a minor difference implying more control of the sells.

6. Does this mean I need a prescription from my doctor to buy pseudoephedrine?

No. The Act allows for the sale of pseudoephedrine only from locked cabinets or behind the counter. The law:

• limits the monthly amount any individual could purchase
  
  
• requires individuals to present photo identification to purchase such medications
  
  
• requires retailers to keep personal information about these customers for at least two years after the purchase of these medicines.
  
  

4. What does “behind-the-counter” mean?

The Act defines “behind-the-counter” as placement of the product to ensure that customers do not have direct access to the product before the sale is made. In other words, placement may be in a secure location in the pharmacy prescription-filling area or in a locked cabinet that is located in the area of the facility to which customers do have direct access. In all cases, the seller will deliver the product directly into the custody of the buyer.

Source FDA

[WarpSpeed]

The paranoia surrounding pseudophedrine is as you say and is being driven by the America Drug Enforcement Agency which has its tentacles all over the place.

But, yet, pseudophedrine is widely available over the counter in the USA?

Yes but limited amounts over a period of weeks or potential jail time and they are keeping track I know of people who've ran afoul unintentionally..

I'm really suffering too and was prescribed Sudaphed non drying non drowsy by my stateside doctor as my sinus's dry out too much and then get swollen and inflamed which leads to infection. Does anyone know of or has heard of any Sudaphed here that has these qualities as I've run out and have been fighting sinus problems for months now since just before the floods and the first time of any length in Thailand since being here. The timing is terrible with the dry weather, nasty air, seasonal allergies and pollens and molds and the added airborne flood related pollution.

My mother back home used to send some on occasion until I realized the danger of that being illegal and that was before the recent crack down..

[Ijustwannateach]

You can get similar medications here but you will also need a prescription from a *hospital* (not a clinic) and my clinic doctor says it is not easy even then.

[Sheryl]

I doubt the US had much if anything to do with this. While there is a path opf narcotic trade thriough Thailand into the West the main concern there (and the drug of choice for abuse in the US) is heroin.

Meth/"ice" is a major problem within SE Asia itself and is the drug iof choice here (that Westerners tend to abuse depressents and Thais stimulants is a fact I have always found interesting)

And, as noted, what the Thai FDA has done ios far more draconian than what the US FDA did. really all that is needed is to control sale of large quantities. Possibly the Thai authorities felt they could not enforce that adequately (and perhaps they never get colds??!!)

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/07/22/national/FDA-tightens-control-over-some-cold-and-allergy-me-30160864.html

I am not sure what the still OTC drug they refer to is but probably a nasal spray. Which is then the best recourse for cold sufferers but shouldn't use for more than a few days or it will create local irritation in the nose with a rebound congestion effect.

[deejah]

west individually high paced, take depressents

east more communal and slow paced, take speed

we all want what we do not have

[endure]

Meth/"ice" is a major problem within SE Asia itself and is the drug iof choice here (that Westerners tend to abuse depressents and Thais stimulants is a fact I have always found interesting)

You obviously weren't in the UK in the 60s

[quiksilva]

You can no longer buy Clarinase over the counter in Thailand, at least that's what many chemists told me recently. It's the best decongestant out there, so sadly have to go to the quacks when I get a cold now.

[Gers1873]

The paranoia surrounding pseudophedrine is as you say and is being driven by the America Drug Enforcement Agency which has its tentacles all over the place.

But, yet, pseudophedrine is widely available over the counter in the USA?

Widely available in the UK but try tp buy more than two boxes and you get the third degree.

[Sheryl]

Clarinase also contains pseudoephedrine. ALL the decongestants that work do, so they are all equally now prescription-only. At least the tablets are, I have heard conflicting things re nose sprays, worth trying to see if you can get nose drops or spray with it. That' ll also work though you need to limit use to just a few days or the nasal membranes get irritated.

[bina]

does that include tiffy's? husband uses that although in israel we have the equivalents (over the counter w/o prescription) called nusidex same same even same exact percentages of ahiston (chlorephen...) and the sudafed. clarinase also, as well as coldex (like tylenol sinus and night coldex vx day coldex)... anyhow, he only wants tiffy's cold meds... sayng the israeli version 'isnt strong enough) (all psychological since it is the exact same and on daugher she noticed no difference whatsoever in a blind test to the tune of -'we ran out of the israeli stuff so take the thai version its the same cause thats what we have in the house at the moment...'

however,do to flue season and allergy season, we have run out. we got the israeli version from a doctor. hubby is stubborn. he wants his thai meds only. western meds dont work. so please, anyone can u tell me can his family send us tiffy's (he's up country, maybe easier there?)

bina

[Tywais]

does that include tiffy's?

From the MIMS Thailand it shows it probably does. pseudoephedrine HCl 15 mg. Tiffy is so common here and can be found at many mom & pop shops so will be interesting to see if it disappears from them.

[Ijustwannateach]

THAT's the one I was talking about in OP. Tiffy <deleted> (you can imagine what it might stand for) has 30mg (though this is half of what Actifed had). I'm almost reluctant to mention it here in case they decide to take that one away, too.

[WarpSpeed]

I doubt the US had much if anything to do with this. While there is a path opf narcotic trade thriough Thailand into the West the main concern there (and the drug of choice for abuse in the US) is heroin.

Meth/"ice" is a major problem within SE Asia itself and is the drug iof choice here (that Westerners tend to abuse depressents and Thais stimulants is a fact I have always found interesting)

And, as noted, what the Thai FDA has done ios far more draconian than what the US FDA did. really all that is needed is to control sale of large quantities. Possibly the Thai authorities felt they could not enforce that adequately (and perhaps they never get colds??!!)

http://www.nationmul...e-30160864.html

I am not sure what the still OTC drug they refer to is but probably a nasal spray. Which is then the best recourse for cold sufferers but shouldn't use for more than a few days or it will create local irritation in the nose with a rebound congestion effect.

There's one called MAR but it dries me out and causes more sinus problems, maybe ok for some others though but you like you said has rebound congesting effect too..

Maybe an additional purpose is to bump up the doctors incomes given how common colds are, they do get commission I understand..

Edited February 11, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

You can get similar medications here but you will also need a prescription from a *hospital* (not a clinic) and my clinic doctor says it is not easy even then.

I've only been able to get regular sudaphed and not any non drying non drowsy types...

[KRS1]

Pure pseudoephidrine tablets are actually controlled by the government and disbursed by the relevant authorities to pharmacies in controlled amounts.

If there's some kind of crackdown its probably because the sales are slowing down, and some big guy on top is losing revenue.

[anterian]

Many years ago in the UK I used to use ephedrine, then it was banned, apparently it was used to speed up dogs at the dog race track. Fortunately my friendly chemist sold me his entire stock just before the ban. Ephedrine was popular with women as a means of losing weight, it was also popular for staying awake at all night parties. However, in this latter case it was often counter productive as it reduced one's sexual capabilities.

When I first met pseudoephedrine I found it made me sweat but in Thailand sweating is normal, so now in England I use my old ephedrine stock and in Thailand the pseudoephedrine. Unfortunately simple kitchen chemistry can convert it into methamphetamine so pseudoephedrine is now on the hit list.

I am now experimenting with various permitted Thai anticongestants containing phenylephrine which seems far less effective.

[ROMANOBA]

It s the usual thai paranoia,i used to buy Sudaphed for my travel sickness ( quite effective) and now i Can't.

Alas many metaphetamine-like medications are quite effective for many medical conditions , so it's quite stupid to remove them from the market.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I've had sinus problems for much of my life... and seen far too many ENTs and sinus docs for my time...

As far as sinus sprays are concerned, I've had several MDs here and in the U.S. recommend Nasacort AQ as among the best... And indeed it seems to work for me. Seems easy to find in larger BKK pharmacies, usually 450 to 500 baht per spray bottle.

Although I haven't bought any in recent weeks, in past months, I've had no trouble finding Thai-produced Nasolin tablets at my regular pharmacy in BKK... 60 mg pseudoephedrine and triprolidine HCI 2.5 mg.

From what I've read in the scientific literature, phenylephrine is considered at least by some experts as pretty ineffective for sinus problems.

The one related odd thing I've encountered, at least thus far, is I haven't been able to find any mucus-thinner/decongestant guaifenesin here...not from pharmacies, and not even in checking with a couple hospital pharmacists. And yet in the U.S. it's a straight over the counter medication.

Edited February 12, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[elektrified]

Actifed has become difficult to get as of around the 1st of last month. I take it a lot because I am always catching colds from my young son. But if you have a good relationship with your pharmacist they will still sell them to you although in limited quantities.

Edit: I guess I should say some will sell them to you; not all.

Edited February 12, 2012 by elektrified

[Sheryl]

What I think is playing out is a time lag in (1) information on the new policy reaching all pharmacies and (2) the existing stocks in pharmacies around the country running out. To my understanding, once they have, they won't be able to reorder and all drugs containing pseudoephedrine in oral form will be found only in hospital pharmacies.

Whether this policy will last once the health system -- especially the public health system -- has to cope with an onslaught of patients with simple colds remains to be seen. The private hospitals may be fine with it -- the more revenue, the better from their point of few -- but it is going to be a huige problem for the public hospitals.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm afraid you're right, Sheryl. One pharmacy from which I was still able to get a few actifed-knockoff brands until recently has just run out and told me that won't be getting more. I'm still not sure about Tiffy <deleted>, though.

Well, off to the hospitals. Let the games begin!

[WarpSpeed]

The one related odd thing I've encountered, at least thus far, is I haven't been able to find any mucus-thinner/decongestant guaifenesin here...not from pharmacies, and not even in checking with a couple hospital pharmacists. And yet in the U.S. it's a straight over the counter medication.

Off topic a bit but plenty of guaifenesin here, Robitussin is the primary brand that springs to mind, I'm looking at a package of it right now. They are running low though as there has been an epidemic of sorts recently due to air quality being especially bad this year so maybe you've not seen it but it's out there and they also just changed the package so have rotated out old stock before filling new.. The package is red with black writing..

I was told yesterday that they are no longer gonna be producing or selling (which ever one) my sons only effective systemic asthma medicine Asmasol and that's a change from our first choice which was phased out and that was Salbuterol.. To go along with that we can no longer purchase Fab liquid as it has also been phased out due to a corporate sale of the company. That's significant because Fab did not irritate my sons asthma as others do so with no meds to treat available and conditions getting steadily worse I think our welcome here has finally run it's course..

[WarpSpeed]

What I think is playing out is a time lag in (1) information on the new policy reaching all pharmacies and (2) the existing stocks in pharmacies around the country running out. To my understanding, once they have, they won't be able to reorder and all drugs containing pseudoephedrine in oral form will be found only in hospital pharmacies.

Whether this policy will last once the health system -- especially the public health system -- has to cope with an onslaught of patients with simple colds remains to be seen. The private hospitals may be fine with it -- the more revenue, the better from their point of few -- but it is going to be a huige problem for the public hospitals.

I really hate the idea of having to go a hospital to get meds too for simple, treatable things and even check ups and such as we always end up going home with something we didn't come in with, they are dirty nasty places full of illness on everything you touch or when you take a breath so we began wearing masks and so far so good for a few years now.

The masks seem to get us served faster too thinking we're really sick with something more serious but still now the chances of getting sick are going to be 1000 fold due to so many sick people packing into the same space..

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Off topic a bit but plenty of guaifenesin here, Robitussin is the primary brand that springs to mind, I'm looking at a package of it right now.

Thanks for the tip about that... I hadn't even thought of that. But as it turns out, I ended up ordering a large bottle of 400 mg tablets from the U.S. and having it mailed here along with some other stuff...

[it's very odd, though given what you note about Robitussin, that after getting several blank looks from pharmacists in asking verbally, I actually printed out the name guaifenesin and an image of the bottled medicine to show to some other pharmacists, including having my wife check at her hospital pharmacy, and still got clueless answers.]

One of the reasons, when I was back in the U.S., I always tended to stay away from Robitussin was that it a] contained alcohol, sugar and a bunch of other stuff, and b] there were so many varieties that often contained other medical ingredients I didn't really want or need...such as a cough suppresant.

But more on the main topic of this thread, what version or versions of Robitussin are you finding here? I ask because, in checking, I see that several of them also contain psuedoephedrine as an ingredient.

Robitussin: Each 5 mL of red, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 100 mg.

Robitussin DM: Each 5 mL of red, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 100 mg and dextromethorphan HBr 15 mg.

Robitussin Cough & Cold: Each 5 mL of pink, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 100 mg, pseudoephedrine HCl 30 mg and dextromethorphan HBr 15 mg.

Robitussin Extra Strength: Each 5 mL of red, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 200 mg.

Robitussin Extra Strength Cough & Cold: Each 5 mL of red, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 200 mg, dextromethorphan HBr 15 mg, pseudoephedrine HCl 30 mg.

http://www.rxmed.com...ROBITUSSIN.html

Hmm...but now I wonder if the above info is current or out of date... I was just checking Amazon.com, and at least in the U.S. found only Robitussin Cough & Cold CF, which appears to have been reformulated to replace pseudoephedrine with phenylephrine...

Edited February 14, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[WarpSpeed]

Off topic a bit but plenty of guaifenesin here, Robitussin is the primary brand that springs to mind, I'm looking at a package of it right now.

Thanks for the tip about that... I hadn't even thought of that. But as it turns out, I ended up ordering a large bottle of 400 mg tablets from the U.S. and having it mailed here along with some other stuff...

[it's very odd, though given what you note about Robitussin, that after getting several blank looks from pharmacists in asking verbally, I actually printed out the name guaifenesin and an image of the bottled medicine to show to some other pharmacists, including having my wife check at her hospital pharmacy, and still got clueless answers.]

One of the reasons, when I was back in the U.S., I always tended to stay away from Robitussin was that it a] contained alcohol, sugar and a bunch of other stuff, and b] there were so many varieties that often contained other medical ingredients I didn't really want or need...such as a cough suppresant.

But more on the main topic of this thread, what version or versions of Robitussin are you finding here? I ask because, in checking, I see that several of them also contain psuedoephedrine as an ingredient.

Robitussin: Each 5 mL of red, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 100 mg.

Robitussin DM: Each 5 mL of red, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 100 mg and dextromethorphan HBr 15 mg.

Robitussin Cough & Cold: Each 5 mL of pink, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 100 mg, pseudoephedrine HCl 30 mg and dextromethorphan HBr 15 mg.

Robitussin Extra Strength: Each 5 mL of red, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 200 mg.

Robitussin Extra Strength Cough & Cold: Each 5 mL of red, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 200 mg, dextromethorphan HBr 15 mg, pseudoephedrine HCl 30 mg.

http://www.rxmed.com...ROBITUSSIN.html

Hmm...but now I wonder if the above info is current or out of date... I was just checking Amazon.com, and at least in the U.S. found only Robitussin Cough & Cold CF, which appears to have been reformulated to replace pseudoephedrine with phenylephrine...

ME, DM, Guaifenesin (formerly simply named Robitussin) and used to be PS too which contained the Pseudoephedrine but is now obviously being phased out though I managed to find a couple left over recently after months of looking..

I seldom ever ask the pharmacist, most are clueless as to their stock, I can't tell you how many times they told me mai me, mai chai and the product I was seeking was sitting right in front of us as it turned out after searching more closely not believing the mai mee or mai chai.. Then keep an empty box for future reference if you must but honestly have never needed that in this case.

One of the reasons I've always used Robitussin is the fact that they do not use alcohol though so don't know where you got that impression from? It's usually only applied in cold meds not cough meds so you can sleep better. The sugar content from my point of view is negligible as it's not an everyday usage..

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

One of the reasons I've always used Robitussin is the fact that they do not use alcohol though so don't know where you got that impression from? It's usually only applied in cold meds not cough meds so you can sleep better. The sugar content from my point of view is negligible as it's not an everyday usage..

Re alcohol content, I didn't include the non-medical ingredients in my above post... But here's the full contents info that was listed.

Availability And Storage: Robitussin: Each 5 mL of red, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 100 mg. Nonmedicinal ingredients: alcohol, caramel color, citric acid, flavor, glycerin, invert sugar, FD&C Red No. 40, sodium benzoate, sodium chloride and water. Energy: 15.3 kJ (3.7 kcal). Sodium: <1 mmol (2.8 mg). Bottles of 100 and 250 mL.

Robitussin DM: Each 5 mL of red, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 100 mg and dextromethorphan HBr 15 mg. Nonmedicinal ingredients: alcohol, citric acid, flavors, FD&C Red No. 40, FD&C Yellow No. 6, glycerin, invert sugar, sodium benzoate and water. Energy: 12.4 kJ (3.0 kcal). Sodium: <1 mmol (0.8 mg). Bottles of 100 and 250 mL.

Robitussin Cough & Cold: Each 5 mL of pink, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 100 mg, pseudoephedrine HCl 30 mg and dextromethorphan HBr 15 mg. Nonmedicinal ingredients: alcohol, citric acid, flavors, D&C Red No. 33, FD&C Red No. 40, glycerin, invert sugar, sodium benzoate, maltol and water. Energy: 17.6 kJ (4.2 kcal). Sodium: <1 mmol (0.8 mg). Bottles of 100 and 250 mL.

Robitussin Extra Strength: Each 5 mL of red, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 200 mg. Nonmedicinal ingredients: citric acid, corn syrup, FD&C Red No. 40, flavors, glycerin, polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol, sodium benzoate, sodium carboxymethylcellulose, sodium saccharin, sorbitol and water. Energy: 49 kJ (11.7 kcal). Sodium: <1 mmol (4.1 mg). Bottles of 100 and 250 mL.

[WarpSpeed]

One of the reasons I've always used Robitussin is the fact that they do not use alcohol though so don't know where you got that impression from? It's usually only applied in cold meds not cough meds so you can sleep better. The sugar content from my point of view is negligible as it's not an everyday usage..

Re alcohol content, I didn't include the non-medical ingredients in my above post... But here's the full contents info that was listed.

Availability And Storage: Robitussin: Each 5 mL of red, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 100 mg. Nonmedicinal ingredients: alcohol, caramel color, citric acid, flavor, glycerin, invert sugar, FD&C Red No. 40, sodium benzoate, sodium chloride and water. Energy: 15.3 kJ (3.7 kcal). Sodium: <1 mmol (2.8 mg). Bottles of 100 and 250 mL.

Robitussin DM: Each 5 mL of red, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 100 mg and dextromethorphan HBr 15 mg. Nonmedicinal ingredients: alcohol, citric acid, flavors, FD&C Red No. 40, FD&C Yellow No. 6, glycerin, invert sugar, sodium benzoate and water. Energy: 12.4 kJ (3.0 kcal). Sodium: <1 mmol (0.8 mg). Bottles of 100 and 250 mL.

Robitussin Cough & Cold: Each 5 mL of pink, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 100 mg, pseudoephedrine HCl 30 mg and dextromethorphan HBr 15 mg. Nonmedicinal ingredients: alcohol, citric acid, flavors, D&C Red No. 33, FD&C Red No. 40, glycerin, invert sugar, sodium benzoate, maltol and water. Energy: 17.6 kJ (4.2 kcal). Sodium: <1 mmol (0.8 mg). Bottles of 100 and 250 mL.

Robitussin Extra Strength: Each 5 mL of red, cherry-flavored syrup contains: guaifenesin 200 mg. Nonmedicinal ingredients: citric acid, corn syrup, FD&C Red No. 40, flavors, glycerin, polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol, sodium benzoate, sodium carboxymethylcellulose, sodium saccharin, sorbitol and water. Energy: 49 kJ (11.7 kcal). Sodium: <1 mmol (4.1 mg). Bottles of 100 and 250 mL.

Well if one is not susceptible to addiction and avoiding it for that reason there's no need for concern in the minimal amounts used for the short period of a cold or flu.. Alcohol has good benefits when sick it breaks down bacteria and viruses in the stomach and blood stream and can aid in minimizing the length and severity of illness..