How Get Passport For Thai/Uk Child If Father Not About

[mickeyyin1]

i have a thai girlfreind who has a 2 yr old baby that she had with ex english boyfriend. He wants nothing to do with the baby and not give her any mone towards his own baby. We want to get her a uk passport but we need birth certificate which she has, but also need the fathers birth certificate and passport. How can we get one if he cant be found or when he is he refuses to co-operate, any advice would be of great help

[Mario2008]

You say ex-boyfreind, so I pesume they were not married.

Moher or child can file a paternity suit, which means that the court will determine who the fahter is and with that the child will become the lagal family of the father. That means British citizenship might be open and also that the father can be made to pay child maintenance.

Remeber that the child in this case can be a plaintiff, as it regards her rights. Others will act on the childs behalf.

For what is the best option, to petition a Thai court or a UK court I would advise to seel competant legal advise.

A Thai court will award child maintenance of about 4,000 THB a month, plus half of medical and educational costs.

[ludditeman]

I wouldn't waste any time or money on this, it will never happen.

In the unlikely event she does know his name and address

The UK courts won't help, and she can't get legal aid, so would need to fully finance any court action herself (or you could pay).

Edited February 8, 2012 by Mario2008
insensitive comment removed

[Mario2008]

It will happen if she puts her mind to it.

A Thai court will be just as fine if the child cannot get legal aid in the UK.

For a court only 1 thing is important, is one the father or not. The rest is irrelevant.

[ludditeman]

It will happen if she puts her mind to it.

A Thai court will be just as fine if the child cannot get legal aid in the UK.

For a court only 1 thing is important, is one the father or not. The rest is irrelevant.

Do you know of any case where this has ever happened? and the UK agreed to a passport?

I think not. The father is required to apply for the passport, how do you ger around that?

Anyway until we find out if the lady has the alleged fathers name and address in the UK the discussion is fairly pointless.

What's more likely is the OP is about to be suckered into paying some fake legal fees.

Edited February 8, 2012 by ludditeman

[mickeyyin1]

yes,it is her ex. we are still living in thailand and so is here. we do know where to find the father but he refuse to go to bangkok with my girlfriend to get their child a passport. so im trying to find out how to get the child a passport without the fathers birth certificate and passport. can a court make him surrender his documents.

[ludditeman]

yes,it is her ex. we are still living in thailand and so is here. we do know where to find the father but he refuse to go to bangkok with my girlfriend to get their child a passport. so im trying to find out how to get the child a passport without the fathers birth certificate and passport. can a court make him surrender his documents.

You can buy the fathers birth certificate direct from the GRO Online for a tenner, posted to you in Thailand.

They don't care who they sell them to, no checks at all, except for gathering enough info to find the right one.

[beano2274]

The father has no legal obligation to supply the OP or his ex GF with a copy of his passport/Birth Certificate for a passport for a child. He also does not have to sign the documentation for a passport.

Seems the OP wants to take the baby and her mother to the UK, so get the baby a thai passport and pay the Visa fees, then you do not have to rely on courts and other people.

Also the OP says "what if the father cannot be found" then later "he is in thailand and refuses to go to Bangkok", so they know where the guy is, and if in Thailand is subject to Thai law, which does not recognise him as the father of the child although his name appears on the Birth Certificate.

Edited February 9, 2012 by beano2274

[Mario2008]

yes,it is her ex. we are still living in thailand and so is here. we do know where to find the father but he refuse to go to bangkok with my girlfriend to get their child a passport. so im trying to find out how to get the child a passport without the fathers birth certificate and passport. can a court make him surrender his documents.

A court can make a decision on who is the fahter and then the child will be legally his. That establishes the child's bloodline and the childs nationality.

A court would find a way to get around it if the father doesn't co-operates. It would be a violation of the child's human rights if the nationality is being withold because the fahter doesn't co-operate.

Getting a passport might be something else, establishing the childs nationality is however a seperate issue.

[ludditeman]

A court would find a way to get around it if the father doesn't co-operates. It would be a violation of the child's human rights if the nationality is being withold because the fahter doesn't co-operate.

I believe the 'human rights' issue can only be raised if the child has no nationality at all.

As this child already has Thai nationality, I don't think this arguement is valid.

[Mario2008]

It is a human rights issue, as the right to British citizenship would be denied on the base that the father won't co-operate and only a birth certificate of the fahter is needed.

[beano2274]

This thing about Human Rights does not wash sorry, this is Thailand, where it violates so many everyday.

If the OP wants to go through the Human Rights point of view then it can take many years, and a lot of investment. Easy option get the child a Thai passport and apply for Visas for the child, might work out cheaper in the end.

[Mario2008]

This thing about Human Rights does not wash sorry, this is Thailand, where it violates so many everyday.

If the OP wants to go through the Human Rights point of view then it can take many years, and a lot of investment. Easy option get the child a Thai passport and apply for Visas for the child, might work out cheaper in the end.

The issue of British Nationality has nothing to do with the Thai governement or Thai courts. The issue is with the British government and would be fought in the British court (if for example intervention from an ombudsman would have no results) and eventually, if needed, with the European Human Rights Commission and Court.

What one does in the Thai courts is to establish who the father is.

[beano2274]

And how would the child get to the UK to fight it's case? And who would pay for the fees?

If the OP wants to get a passport get the child a Thai one, when the child is 7 marry the mother and adopt the child legally, then he can get the child a UK passport easier than having a big fight in the courts,

[Mario2008]

We don't know yet if it will come that far. The co-operation of the fahter might not be needed in case of a court decision about who the father is. Secondly there are also ways to try and solve a case like this without going to court, like an Ombudsman. Thirdly, this is an administrative matter. Often no lawyer is needed till it reaches certain point.

[beano2274]

The stress of the whole thing might be too much for one and all, so might be easier to do like I suggested with the Thai passport and future marriage.

[terryq]

Assuming that the passport is a higher priority than any child maintenance, and that you are still in contact with the ex, I would inform him that you will be instigating paternity proceedings in the Thai courts and that you will then petition for child support.....

or... if he was agreeable to assisting in the application for a UK passport you would be willing to sign legal papers that you would never , in future file for child support in Thailand or the UK.

[Mario2008]

She can choose not to go after child support, what she can't do is sign away rights to child support. Simply eacause it is not her right, but the right of the child and she has no power to sign it away. A court would not honor such an agreement.

Of course it would be easier and less costly if the father agrees to co-operate, also for him it will be easier and less expesnive as he won't need a lawyer, spend time in court etc.

[mickeyyin1]

yes,it is her ex. we are still living in thailand and so is here. we do know where to find the father but he refuse to go to bangkok with my girlfriend to get their child a passport. so im trying to find out how to get the child a passport without the fathers birth certificate and passport. can a court make him surrender his documents.

You can buy the fathers birth certificate direct from the GRO Online for a tenner, posted to you in Thailand.

They don't care who they sell them to, no checks at all, except for gathering enough info to find the right one.

ive looked into getting a copy of birth certificate and like you say that is easy, then would have the problem of getting copy of the fathers passport

[mickeyyin1]

The father has no legal obligation to supply the OP or his ex GF with a copy of his passport/Birth Certificate for a passport for a child. He also does not have to sign the documentation for a passport.

Seems the OP wants to take the baby and her mother to the UK, so get the baby a thai passport and pay the Visa fees, then you do not have to rely on courts and other people.

Also the OP says "what if the father cannot be found" then later "he is in thailand and refuses to go to Bangkok", so they know where the guy is, and if in Thailand is subject to Thai law, which does not recognise him as the father of the child although his name appears on the Birth Certificate.

He is still in Thailand and he refused to co-operate when the mother approached him and since then he has changed his number and has been making it difficult to find him. The child only 2 and not want to go to the uk at present, but the mother would like her daughter to have a uk passport for future so she has chance of a better education

[mickeyyin1]

The father has no legal obligation to supply the OP or his ex GF with a copy of his passport/Birth Certificate for a passport for a child. He also does not have to sign the documentation for a passport.

Seems the OP wants to take the baby and her mother to the UK, so get the baby a thai passport and pay the Visa fees, then you do not have to rely on courts and other people.

Also the OP says "what if the father cannot be found" then later "he is in thailand and refuses to go to Bangkok", so they know where the guy is, and if in Thailand is subject to Thai law, which does not recognise him as the father of the child although his name appears on the Birth Certificate.

fathers name is on the childs birth certificate. If we were able to obtain a copy of his birth certificate and passport, could we then proceed to get a passport and say that he wont co-operate or we cannot locate him

[beano2274]

The father has no legal obligation to supply the OP or his ex GF with a copy of his passport/Birth Certificate for a passport for a child. He also does not have to sign the documentation for a passport.

Seems the OP wants to take the baby and her mother to the UK, so get the baby a thai passport and pay the Visa fees, then you do not have to rely on courts and other people.

Also the OP says "what if the father cannot be found" then later "he is in thailand and refuses to go to Bangkok", so they know where the guy is, and if in Thailand is subject to Thai law, which does not recognise him as the father of the child although his name appears on the Birth Certificate.

He is still in Thailand and he refused to co-operate when the mother approached him and since then he has changed his number and has been making it difficult to find him. The child only 2 and not want to go to the uk at present, but the mother would like her daughter to have a uk passport for future so she has chance of a better education

He could make it difficult and suggest that although he is on the birth certificate he is not the father, you could find yourself running around from court date to another, remember even if the dates are set in court he does not have to attend, but he will have to attend the 3rd time of asking for each individual case, and sometimes these cases could go on for ages, I would try and find him through whatever means, and ask him to be part of the solution, even if I had to dive into my pockets, maybe you should try the same thing.

But good luck to you,

[beano2274]

The father has no legal obligation to supply the OP or his ex GF with a copy of his passport/Birth Certificate for a passport for a child. He also does not have to sign the documentation for a passport.

Seems the OP wants to take the baby and her mother to the UK, so get the baby a thai passport and pay the Visa fees, then you do not have to rely on courts and other people.

Also the OP says "what if the father cannot be found" then later "he is in thailand and refuses to go to Bangkok", so they know where the guy is, and if in Thailand is subject to Thai law, which does not recognise him as the father of the child although his name appears on the Birth Certificate.

fathers name is on the childs birth certificate. If we were able to obtain a copy of his birth certificate and passport, could we then proceed to get a passport and say that he wont co-operate or we cannot locate him

You need the fathers signature on a passport form, like i have mentioned above, try using your contacts to find him, and maybe make a deal with him as someone else suggested.

[terryq]

She can choose not to go after child support, what she can't do is sign away rights to child support. Simply eacause it is not her right, but the right of the child and she has no power to sign it away. A court would not honor such an agreement.

Of course it would be easier and less costly if the father agrees to co-operate, also for him it will be easier and less expesnive as he won't need a lawyer, spend time in court etc.

Yes, I know that , but the ex might not, just trying to suggest a way to move the process forward.

Of course if ex is board member he might know now.

[Mario2008]

The question is if the fathers signature is required if the mother has sole custody over the child.

The fahter being on the birth certificate says nothing. It is only a claim, that he can deny. If he reported the birth himself, it would be a good indication he is the father for a paternity suit.

[ludditeman]

@Mickey

Problem is we've all heard this story a million times, often the accused guy is nothing to do with the child, just wishful thinking by the woman (or she had so many customers around the time that has no idea who the father is).

Next problem, the girl my not have any interest in finding any father, but interested in hitting you up for some loans to 'help her'

The Thai courts won't help you at all because, they don't recognise the child has a father, they think the girl is a slut (having a baby without being married is a big official no no here), they don't want the kid to get a foreign passport.

Child support in Thailand is a bad joke, it usually costs far more in legal fees than could ever be recovered in maintenance payments

Mario is always hopelessly optomistic in these cases, but really it is just a waste of time and money because nothing productive will ever happen, and he isn't spending his money.

Edited February 9, 2012 by ludditeman

[Mario2008]

The problem is that some people think that all woman are sluts and that all Thai woman are bargirls and want to read more into a post than is actually said.

For a paternity suit and child maintenance, who and what the mother does is completely irrelevant. Even if the mother would be a prostitute. (reminds me of a German case in which a woman had 3 lovers who could be the father of the child. All three had to submit DNA and the father was thus found and next ordered to pay child support).

It is the child that is the issue and on whoes rights are being determined. That is no different in a Thai court. The mother is simply irrelevant, the only question is if the person is indeed the father of the child.

Child support is low in Thailand, but does include medical and educational cost to be shared. And that can be a considerable amount. Enforcing it is no problem, a Thai court can and will order an employer to pay the child maintence directly to the mother, and the rest to the father.

As a foreigner, the father doesn't want to get on the wrong side of a Thai judge anyway. He could find himself in contempt and doing time and be declared persona non-grata as a result. (With the enforcement of the child maintenance being taken over by the British government when he returns to the UK).

[ludditeman]

As a foreigner, the father doesn't want to get on the wrong side of a Thai judge anyway. He could find himself in contempt and doing time and be declared persona non-grata as a result. (With the enforcement of the child maintenance being taken over by the British government when he returns to the UK).

We're a bit off topic now, but even in the UK child maintenance awards are not all that easy to collect.

You have to be in a job where you are making NI contributions for the courts even to award payments at all.

Only 40% of those awards are ever collected, but at least in the UK it doesn't cost the mother much to get the award.

[Mario2008]

I don't know about collection in the UK, but a Thai court decision will be respected by a UK court under international treaty. There is probably no need for a new Uk court decision. But of course the father could seek a change of the amount of maintenance. That will however cost him money in court fees, with an unsure outcome. The court might even order him to pay more, depending on the situation and if the child puts in a counter claim for adjustment.