Viktor Bout Prefers Thai Prison

[airconsult]

A prisoner complaining about prison conditions, that must be a first???

Well vik if you cant do the time you shouldnt have done the crime.

he didn't do any crime for Russian and Thai law.

Really, so gun running is LEGAL in Russia and Thailand. Sounds like a good business to get into then.

Well, paraphrasing and summarising the original criminal court judge in Bangkok, there was an interesting point.

Did he commit an offence in Thai Law? And according to the judge's opinion, if one foreigner plots to assist in killing other foreigners (none of whom are Thai), and the killing does not take place in Thai jurisdiction..... maybe not.....

Of course that's not his full opinion, it's quite a bit more complicated than that. And after all, the US was requesting extradition based on a US law that says if you assist to kill Americans anywhere in the world you are guilty. Perhaps they should talk to Smith & Wesson etc? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Firearms_manufacturers_in_the_United_States

In my view that's a pretty selectively enforced law.

And supporting terrorism? Don't even go there - many people in the UK would like to talk to certain Americans about the funding for the IRA in the past.

[cdnvic]

Off topic posts removed

[soylentgreen]

A prisoner complaining about prison conditions, that must be a first???

Well vik if you cant do the time you shouldnt have done the crime.

he didn't do any crime for Russian and Thai law.

Really, so gun running is LEGAL in Russia and Thailand. Sounds like a good business to get into then.

Until they stab you in the back:

Victor Bout made a mistake in 2004 by selling arms to Hasan Cengic in Bosnia that later part of them ended in Chechnya. That was the main reason he was betrayed by FSB to USA.

A secret weapons pipeline into Bosnia in violation of a UN arms embargo was exposed. Large transport planes have been arriving once a week for four weeks from Sudan to Maribor, Slovenia. The cargo is marked as humanitarian aid but in fact the planes are carrying tons of weapons, mostly from surplus stocks of old Soviet weapons.

The planes are run by a company belonging to Victor Bout, a notorious illegal arms dealer who will later work closely with the Taliban in Afghanistan (see October 1996-Late 2001). [Farah and Braun, 2007, pp. 50-51, 268-269]

Such planes have been bringing weapons through Croatia bound for Muslim Bosnia, but due to deteriorating relations between Croatia and Muslim Bosnia, the Croatian government stops the flights and impounds 120 tons of weapons.

At the same time, chartered Russian helicopters fly more weapons directly into Muslim Bosnia. Austrian government agents learn that the Third World Relief Agency (TWRA) is financing all of these shipments. They are working with Hasan Cengic, a radical imam who is also a Bosnian government official. The TWRA and Cengic switch to other routes.

The next year, the German government stumbled across an illegal weapons deal being negotiated in Germany by Bosnian Muslims and Turkish arms dealers and arrested around 30. TWRA was the financial broker of the deal. But despite the exposure of TWRA as a charity front, no government takes any action against it and it will continue to be the main vehicle by which Muslim Bosnia gets illegal weapons. [Washington Post, 9/22/1996; Farah and Braun, 2007, pp. 50-51, 268-269]

Bout and Cengic apparently continue working together. A 2004 Bosnian intelligence report said that “Victor Bout in collaboration with Hasan Cengic is transporting weapons to Chechnya” via a Bout front company.

Viktor Bout is closely tied to Vladimir Putin’s “Siloviki,” a Russian word variously translated as “force” or “power base,” referring to the huge coterie of KGB/FSB operatives appointed by Putin throughout the entire Russian government and state-owned enterprises.

The KGB never disappeared under Gorbachev and Yeltsin, and there is no question that the intelligence services have received a huge boost during the Putin regime. Even the so-called mainstream press began catching on to that fact over the past couple of years. “KGB influence ‘soars under Putin’” was the title of a December 13, 2006 BBC story, which noted: “Four out of five political leaders and state administrators in Russia either have been or still are members of the security services.” Meaning roughly 80 percent of Russia’s top echelon are “siloviki,” probably a far higher percentage than any time during the Soviet era.

Viktor Bout’s ties to the siloviki structure run right to the top. According to press reports, he is a longtime friend and associate of Igor Sechin, Putin’s veteran right-hand man. Back at the beginning of the 1990s, Sechin served as chief of staff to Putin, who was then deputy mayor of St. Petersburg (previously Leningrad). In 1998, Putin was appointed head of the FSB (the renamed KGB) and Sechin followed as his assistant. When Putin assumed the presidency of Russia, Sechin went along as his first deputy chief. In 2004, Putin appointed Sechin chairman of Rosneft, the giant oil and gas company (worth $70 billion), catapulting him to near the top of the Kremlin economic and political food chain. In 2008, Putin moved over to become prime minister, making room for his handpicked successor, Dmitry Medvedev, to become president. President Medvedev then appointed Sechin to be deputy prime minister under Putin.

According to the private intelligence service Stratfor.com, “One of Russia’s current deputy prime ministers, Igor Sechin, was the USSR’s point man for weapons smuggling to much of Latin America and the Middle East.” Sechin and Bout apparently met in the 1980s in Mozambique, which was then one of the Soviet Union’s top African client states, under the brutal reign of Marxist thug Joaquim Chissano and the ruling Front for the Liberation of Mozambique (FRELIMO) party. Bout, who was trained as a linguist at the Soviet Military Institute of Foreign Languages in Moscow, was in Mozambique as a translator.

Investigative reporter Witold Gadowski, writing in the Polish magazine Gazeta Polska, quotes an unnamed source of his, whom he says is knowledgeable concerning the Russian special services. The source told Gadowski: “Igor Sechin, now one of the most important people of the top [Russian] leadership, … knows very much about Bout’s business. Sechin (a former KGB officer) was an interpreter of Portuguese language in Mozambique, where he met a fellow-interpreter, Victor Bout.”

The Sechin connection would certainly explain Bout’s charmed existence for so many years while allegedly running arms to the Taliban and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, Hezbollah in Lebanon, Abu Sayaff terrorists in the Philippines, dictator Charles Taylor in Liberia, and the forces responsible for the brutal carnage in Rwanda, the Congo, and Sierra Leone. With his fleet of 40 to 60 Russian Antonov cargo planes and easy access to a virtually unlimited supply of Russian arms, Viktor Bout ran a constantly shifting complex of shell companies operating out of Belgium, Bulgaria, the UAE, the Central African Republic, South Africa, Liberia, Swaziland, and Equatorial Guinea. But after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, Bout ran for cover in his old sanctuary: Russia.

Witold Gadowski is among those following Bout’s activities who believe his Kremlin protectors finally decided to dump him, since his international notoriety had turned him into more of a liability than an asset.

“Officially, Bout fell into a trap arranged by American special services,”

But in fact he had been ‘pointed for a shot’ in Thailand by the FSB [the Russian Security Service].

Bout is not the only formerly protected asset to be dumped. Similar fates have befallen his fellow arms-smuggling “lords of war” Semyon Mogilevich, Leonid Minin, Monsar al-Kassar, and Andrei Smulyan (aka Andrew Smulian). Apparently, with the changeover from known KGB/FSB chief Putin to his fresh-faced protégé Medvedev, the Kremlin leadership decided it would make good sense to clean up some of the old dirty laundry that might spoil the new image.

Witold Gadowski writes: “According to the official version, Bout, looked for in the whole world, fell into the hands of the Thai special services … and was arrested with his accomplice, Andrew Smulian, when he tried to strike a deal to sell weapons to the Colombian FARC.… But there is also another, closer to the truth version of Major Bout’s give-away. Somebody in the Kremlin has decided to wind up a protective umbrella over the most wanted international criminals. Mogilevich and Bout, used before in many actions, became useless ballast to the new “tsarevich” — Medvedev.”

Polish analyst David Dastych, in an article entitled

“Did the FSB Betray Victor Bout?”

appearing in the Swiss paper Nachrichten Heute on March 22, 2008, observed:

“Under the rule of the former President Vladimir Putin, Mogilevich and Bout were safe in Moscow. Now, when the President-elect Dmitry Medvedev is getting ready to do some ‘face-saving’ in Russia, the old ‘kings’ of the criminal underworld, serving the Kremlin as useful agents, are being dumped while new, still unknown replacements will take their place.”

Douglas Farah and Stephen Braun, co-authors of the Bout bio Merchant of Death, note:

“While the State Department remained committed at least in principle to shutting down Bout’s global air transport operation, the Defence Department was enriching it with government contracts and American taxpayer funds.”

Obviously, fully airing this information could prove highly embarrassing to many people formerly and currently in high places. It might even open some of them up to criminal charges.

I think this explains why he is being held in solitary confinement.

“even his deals with the Taliban, Bush officials felt they were not worth jeopardising the chance to build a counter-terrorism alliance with Russia. The perception within the intelligence community at the time was that Bout was protected by senior Russian officials, possibly even Putin himself.”

http://oraclesyndica...tories/4804720/

http://www.ocnus.net...t_printer.shtml

http://www.thenewame...ial-still-looms

[gopnarak]

US prisons have the best healthcare, hobby shops, libraries, education system, in the world and it is FREE.

If you want the TRUTH, look it up. Below is an orientation handbook for a maximum security US Prison.

http://www.bop.gov/l..._aohandbook.pdf

I rather believe this Russian business man and his lawyer what they say about that prison than in that what you can read in some US govt publication.

[WarpSpeed]

Really?? I can't argue your apparently vast experience, sounds like sour grapes from a former guest of the system IMO..

A self hater it appears, if he is on the lamb, obviously Thailand is not the place to be. Thailand will send people to the USA. Hmmm I wonder where those hamas guys are now?

I have to say that I had no idea that things like cable TV, phones and air conditioning existed 150 years ago I'm glad he informed me...

These boys don't get TV, phones and aircon.

Radkiter is correct the prisons are barbaric in the US. The problem is that some years back the prisons went over to commercial contractors and the prisons for profit system started. Since that point the number of prison sentences handed down in the USA has risen 500%. Prisons for profit means profit for shareholders and that does not mean pool tables, TV's computers etc etc. Amenities are at an absolute minimum.

The conditions that people are held in just awaiting trial (remember innocent until proven guilty) are an afront to any Human rights. Often those awaiting trial are held in large cells where the right to every square centimeter of space must be fought over. Often people awaiting trial for minor offences are in cells with murderous thugs and are beaten relentlessly, and the prison for profit authority doesn't care, unless an official complaint is made. Make an official complaint and you are a dead man walking.

A condition of commercial companies taking over prisons was that they wanted them full as thats how they make a lot of money. Hence you will be banged up for little reason in the States. They are not interested in giving you parole unless there is someone waiting to take your place for an equally long time.

As someone described it...a clean version of Hell would sound right. The USA has more people in jail per head of population than any other country on Earth!

Victor, unlucky sunshine, it looks like game over and in 30 years he will be begging for the death penalty, like tens of thousands of others banged up in the USA.

Uh ohhhh!! Another one with personal experience to draw on!..

[WarpSpeed]

A prisoner complaining about prison conditions, that must be a first???

Well vik if you cant do the time you shouldnt have done the crime.

he didn't do any crime for Russian and Thai law.

THAT makes it ok then.........

[WarpSpeed]

US prisons have the best healthcare, hobby shops, libraries, education system, in the world and it is FREE.

If you want the TRUTH, look it up. Below is an orientation handbook for a maximum security US Prison.

http://www.bop.gov/l..._aohandbook.pdf

Truth?? They don't want the truth!! They can't handle the truth they just close their eyes and ears and say to themselves la la la and claim everything is a conspiracy when the truth is mentioned..They only understand and accept their own version of the truth...

Edited February 10, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

the prisons in the USA are barbaric and not much different than they were 150 years ago. Really says something about how unenlightened America is compared to Europe. Further, anyone accused and tried in the USA is guilty until proven innocent. Only morons unfamiliar with the system are allowed on the jury so the prosecutors and politically dependent judges can convict most anyone whether they are guilty or not. And that's dam_n right the US Government doesn't want any competition in the arms or terrorism industry. We're number 1 in the most disgusting.

Ya, so much better here where you can just pay a bribe and walk away from any crime you commit.

You can walk away from any crime in the US too. You just need a million dollars or so, to pay your lawyers. Just look at OJ, and countless others. The way the system works there is the corruption is hidden. Just as corrupt. But, you pay the lawyers instead of the judge, you pay the lobbyists, instead of the politician directly, etc. Same, Same.

Hmm, I thought OJ was in gaol and probably for life and just lost his house to foreclosure to boot..

[gopnarak]

A prisoner complaining about prison conditions, that must be a first???

Well vik if you cant do the time you shouldnt have done the crime.

he didn't do any crime for Russian and Thai law.

THAT makes it ok then.........

He didn't do any crime. It is not okay that he is in Jail.

[Reasonableman]

An interesting conclusion, reached despite all available facts. Well done.

A prisoner complaining about prison conditions, that must be a first???

Well vik if you cant do the time you shouldnt have done the crime.

he didn't do any crime for Russian and Thai law.

THAT makes it ok then.........

He didn't do any crime. It is not okay that he is in Jail.

[gopnarak]

Viktor Bout is not guilty - from the source provided by the Thaivisa admin in post #4

Russian Vice Consul in New York Alexander Otchainov expressed disappointment with the court ruling in Bout’s case on Wednesday.

“The Russian position remains unchanged – Viktor Bout is not guilty,” Otchainov told reporters after the hearings.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20120209/171223700.html

[Reasonableman]

Seems to be some disagreement here. If you prefer to believe one view over another, without any evidence supporting it having been produced, that's your prerogative. If you are ever called for jury duty, I'm sure you'll be excused.

Viktor Bout is not guilty - from the source provided by the Thaivisa admin in post #4

Russian Vice Consul in New York Alexander Otchainov expressed disappointment with the court ruling in Bout’s case on Wednesday.

“The Russian position remains unchanged – Viktor Bout is not guilty,” Otchainov told reporters after the hearings.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20120209/171223700.html

[gopnarak]

Victor Bout is guilty in the eyes of an American jury. Thats is your evidence.

[TAWP]

US prisons have the best healthcare, hobby shops, libraries, education system, in the world and it is FREE.

If you want the TRUTH, look it up. Below is an orientation handbook for a maximum security US Prison.

http://www.bop.gov/l..._aohandbook.pdf

Truth?? They don't want the truth!! They can't handle the truth they just close their eyes and ears and say to themselves la la la and claim everything is a conspiracy when the truth is mentioned..They only understand and accept their own version of the truth...

Wow, best in the world they claim, without blinking. Arrogant, perhaps? Or ignorant?

[Reasonableman]

Yes, unanimously, on 4 different charges it appears. Miscarriages of justice do occur, but i doubt he was convicted solely on the basis of his nationality. Do you believe a jury trial in the USA is inherently unfair?

Victor Bout is guilty in the eyes of an American jury. Thats is your evidence.

[gopnarak]

Yes, unanimously, on 4 different charges it appears. Miscarriages of justice do occur, but i doubt he was convicted solely on the basis of his nationality. Do you believe a jury trial in the USA is inherently unfair?

Victor Bout is guilty in the eyes of an American jury. Thats is your evidence.

Yes, murky conspiracy charges that he wants to kill Americans.

Made of his alleged answer to a question if some missiles, he was willing to sell, allegedly, could be used to shot helicopters down, American helicopters.

If his answer would have been, "No, no, no its impossible to shot down US American helicopters with this weapons in Colombia" (keep note: Colombia, NOT Columbia) - then there would be no case.

[gopnarak]

US prisons have the best healthcare, hobby shops, libraries, education system, in the world and it is FREE.

If you want the TRUTH, look it up. Below is an orientation handbook for a maximum security US Prison.

http://www.bop.gov/l..._aohandbook.pdf

Truth?? They don't want the truth!! They can't handle the truth they just close their eyes and ears and say to themselves la la la and claim everything is a conspiracy when the truth is mentioned..They only understand and accept their own version of the truth...

Wow, best in the world they claim, without blinking. Arrogant, perhaps? Or ignorant?

... American.

[Reasonableman]

Admirable that you can separate your anti-American feelings from matters of fact regarding innocence and guilt, in that case.

Yes, unanimously, on 4 different charges it appears. Miscarriages of justice do occur, but i doubt he was convicted solely on the basis of his nationality. Do you believe a jury trial in the USA is inherently unfair?

Victor Bout is guilty in the eyes of an American jury. Thats is your evidence.

Yes, murky conspiracy charges that he wants to kill Americans.

Made of his alleged answer to a question if some missiles, he was willing to sell, allegedly, could be used to shot helicopters down, American helicopters.

If his answer would have been, "No, no, no its impossible to shot down US American helicopters with this weapons in Colombia" (keep note: Colombia, NOT Columbia) - then there would be no case.

[nurofiend]

US prisons have the best healthcare, hobby shops, libraries, education system, in the world and it is FREE.

If you want the TRUTH, look it up. Below is an orientation handbook for a maximum security US Prison.

http://www.bop.gov/l..._aohandbook.pdf

FREE??? OMG!!! and there was me thinking you had to pay to get into prison in america!

how long are the queues to get in? are the bouncers friendly?

you've obviously done no research or put any reasonable thought into your 'best in the world' claim, you've just blurted it out... cos it just has to be the best in the world..it's america! amirite?

[Reasonableman]

A new category for TripAdvisor, Lonely Planet, or even better The Rough Guide? "World's Best Prisons"? It's not American prisons after all, it's..........!

US prisons have the best healthcare, hobby shops, libraries, education system, in the world and it is FREE.

If you want the TRUTH, look it up. Below is an orientation handbook for a maximum security US Prison.

http://www.bop.gov/l..._aohandbook.pdf

FREE??? OMG!!! and there was me thinking you had to pay to get into prison in america!

how long are the queues to get in? are the bouncers friendly?

you've obviously done no research or put any reasonable thought into your 'best in the world' claim, you've just blurted it out... cos it just has to be the best in the world..it's america! amirite?

Edited February 10, 2012 by Reasonableman

[gopnarak]

Matters of fact: Bout is not guilty, according to the Russian Vice Consul in New York. An American jury think otherwise.

I have never said something else and never made any anti-American posts in other topics.

Edited February 10, 2012 by gopnarak

[WarpSpeed]

A prisoner complaining about prison conditions, that must be a first???

Well vik if you cant do the time you shouldnt have done the crime.

he didn't do any crime for Russian and Thai law.

THAT makes it ok then.........

He didn't do any crime. It is not okay that he is in Jail.

He didn't do any crime? That's news to the rest of the world.... He did do crimes, and was convicted of them in the most balanced legal system in the world (take note, I didn't say perfect).. Civilized governments should respect other countries legal systems and rule of law to extradite those criminals for trial if the charge is valid and accompanied by reasonable proof which is what happened in this case..

[WarpSpeed]

Viktor Bout is not guilty - from the source provided by the Thaivisa admin in post #4

Russian Vice Consul in New York Alexander Otchainov expressed disappointment with the court ruling in Bout’s case on Wednesday.

“The Russian position remains unchanged – Viktor Bout is not guilty,” Otchainov told reporters after the hearings.

http://en.rian.ru/wo.../171223700.html

That seals it then!!! We heard from the RUSSIAN Consul... I wish the US government had saved us poor tax payers all that money and trouble and just asked him to begin with

[gopnarak]

He didn't do any crime. It is not okay that he is in Jail.

He didn't do any crime? That's news to the rest of the world.... He did do crimes, and was convicted of them in the most balanced legal system in the world (take note, I didn't say perfect).. Civilized governments should respect other countries legal systems and rule of law to extradite those criminals for trial if the charge is valid and accompanied by reasonable proof which is what happened in this case..

read here:

Viktor Bout is not guilty - from the source provided by the Thaivisa admin in post #4

Russian Vice Consul in New York Alexander Otchainov expressed disappointment with the court ruling in Bout’s case on Wednesday.

“The Russian position remains unchanged – Viktor Bout is not guilty,” Otchainov told reporters after the hearings.

http://en.rian.ru/wo.../171223700.html

[WarpSpeed]

Victor Bout is guilty in the eyes of an American jury. Thats is your evidence.

Good enough for me since they view evidence and facts that you haven't...

[gopnarak]

Viktor Bout is not guilty - from the source provided by the Thaivisa admin in post #4

Russian Vice Consul in New York Alexander Otchainov expressed disappointment with the court ruling in Bout’s case on Wednesday.

“The Russian position remains unchanged – Viktor Bout is not guilty,” Otchainov told reporters after the hearings.

http://en.rian.ru/wo.../171223700.html

That seals it then!!! We heard from the RUSSIAN Consul... I wish the US government had saved us poor tax payers all that money and trouble and just asked him to begin with

Yes, he isn't guilty for the rest of the world. He is just guilty in the eyes of an American jury (add any smiley of your choice to show respect and make clear that you are free of any nationalistic bias).

[WarpSpeed]

He didn't do any crime. It is not okay that he is in Jail.

He didn't do any crime? That's news to the rest of the world.... He did do crimes, and was convicted of them in the most balanced legal system in the world (take note, I didn't say perfect).. Civilized governments should respect other countries legal systems and rule of law to extradite those criminals for trial if the charge is valid and accompanied by reasonable proof which is what happened in this case..

read here:

Russian Vice Consul in New York Alexander Otchainov expressed disappointment with the court ruling in Bout’s case on Wednesday.

“The Russian position remains unchanged – Viktor Bout is not guilty,” Otchainov told reporters after the hearings.

http://en.rian.ru/wo.../171223700.html

<deleted>! Not facts, one mans opinion, I'll take 12 everyday, man on the street, AMERICAN jurors with no personal agenda who heard the evidence first hand over ANY one RUSSIAN consul anytime..

[WarpSpeed]

Viktor Bout is not guilty - from the source provided by the Thaivisa admin in post #4

Russian Vice Consul in New York Alexander Otchainov expressed disappointment with the court ruling in Bout’s case on Wednesday.

“The Russian position remains unchanged – Viktor Bout is not guilty,” Otchainov told reporters after the hearings.

http://en.rian.ru/wo.../171223700.html

That seals it then!!! We heard from the RUSSIAN Consul... I wish the US government had saved us poor tax payers all that money and trouble and just asked him to begin with

Yes, he isn't guilty for the rest of the world. He is just guilty in the eyes of an American jury (add any smiley of your choice to show respect and make clear that you are free of any nationalistic bias).

Ok keep telling yourself that if it'll help you sleep better at night, but the reality is, he is guilty and in prison in solitary confinement until his sentencing..

[WarpSpeed]

He didn't do any crime? That's news to the rest of the world.... He did do crimes, and was convicted of them in the most balanced legal system in the world (take note, I didn't say perfect).. Civilized governments should respect other countries legal systems and rule of law to extradite those criminals for trial if the charge is valid and accompanied by reasonable proof which is what happened in this case..

I'm looking forward to your agreement with any future claim of extradition by Iran of U.S. or Israeli officials for supporting terrorism by directly founding several armed groups inside Iran's borders.

The bold type should exclude you from your wait then...

Edited February 10, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[gopnarak]

<deleted>! Not facts, one mans opinion, I'll take 12 everyday, man on the street, AMERICAN jurors with no personal agenda who heard the evidence first hand over ANY one RUSSIAN consul anytime..

Yes, thats it. 12 average American think Bout is guilty. That is not the whole world, nor is it evidence for an actual guilt that could stand any other non-American jurisdiction. Like in Russia for example, they wouldn't even open a case about this.