Most See Charter Rewrite Is For Politicians' Gain: Thai Poll

[webfact]

Poll: Most See Charter Rewrite Is for Politicians' Gain

BANGKOK: -- An opinion poll shows most respondents believe the charter amendment aims only to yield benefits for politicians.

A survey by the research center of Sripathum University suggested 44.8 percent of its 1,700 respondents living in 17 provinces said the Constitution amendment only benefits politicians while 25.3 percent said it is for the people.

Around 22 percent said the move is aimed to serve the personal gain of fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and some eight percent stated the campaign favors other groups such as businesspeople and civil servants.

Meanwhile, 44.4 percent suggested the present Constitution has problems, but they cannot determine which parts of it should be improved while 21.3 percent can identify the charter's defects. Roughly 18 percent stated they have no problem with the charter while 16 percent abstained from commenting.

Asked about the appropriate time to proceed with a revision, more than one third stated it is still not needed at the moment while 29.3 percent suggested the proceedings be carried out straight away.

A total of 23.2 percent said the rewrite should take place in six months to one year while 10.9 percent remarked the most appropriate time for the matter is the final year of this administration's term.

On how the amendment should be carried out, 31.4 percent said the members of the Constitution drafting assembly should come from an election based on the proportion of eligible voters and from appointments.

Around 30.6 percent said each province should elect one assembly member while the rest should come from appointments.

Nearly 20 percent said the government should take charge of drafting the new charter on its own and put it forward for the Parliament’s endorsement. Some 18 percent advised the government to set up a panel to draft the charter and then seek endorsement from Parliament.

Meanwhile, 39.5 percent saw no need for the organization of a national referendum on the draft amendment bill, 31.8 percent said a referendum must be conducted after the amendment is completed while 18.6 percent said it must take place before the drafting. Nearly ten percent said a referendum must be organized both before and after the drafting.

On the issues which should be revised, 3.65 percent pointed out to the people's rights and freedom, 3.49 percent wanted a change in the installation of senators and 3.33 percent wanted a change in the general election. A total of 3.2 percent wanted to see the appointment of independent agency members readjusted while 3.27 percent suggested articles on party dissolution and voting right revocation be revised.

A total of 2.94 percent said most articles in the defunct 1997 charter should be included in the new bill, 2.79 percent said the new charter should allow MPs to have more role in the work of government agencies, 2.69 percent suggested the inclusion of political amnesty and 2.59 percent recommend non-MPs be allowed to take the prime ministerial post.

-- Tan Network 2012-02-10

[ozzieman05]

From my Thai wife's mouth

More and more it is becoming easy to see, and Educated Thai looks to see whats good for the country

Thais from the Villages look at what is good for themselves

With the ever increasing amount of Thai youth now attending University and obtaining an education

Thailand future is in the hands of the new adults coming out of the education system

The reason the Government really do not want the education system to be available to the masses

Only by having ignorance can they keep their self benificial polices working

[Bakseedaa]

From my Thai wife's mouth

More and more it is becoming easy to see, and Educated Thai looks to see whats good for the country

Thais from the Villages look at what is good for themselves

With the ever increasing amount of Thai youth now attending University and obtaining an education

Thailand future is in the hands of the new adults coming out of the education system

The reason the Government really do not want the education system to be available to the masses

Only by having ignorance can they keep their self benificial polices working

And your wife is Bang on the button..!

[exeter]

How unusual, me first Thailand second.

[CalgaryII]

As with many of these Polls, they are carried out by extensions from the Opposition.

Results often corroberate their pespectives.

This can be viewed as a form of "Agenda cleansing"

By having others repeat Opposition agenda via researchy kinda stuff, makes their agenda appear to be supported by the public.

That is certainly the case in this so-called Poll.

In effect it is Opposition via another means, in addition to running to the Judges.

I still find much merit in what a Parliamentary Committee stated as the reason for constitutional reform as follows, and give no credence to the Opposition laundering their agenda through others.

• The present constitution does not support political parties but undermines them.
  
• Under the constitution, procedures to create independent organisations and select their members lack public participation and go against the principle of democracy, the panel said.
  
• Independent organisations and the judiciary are allowed to operate without a system of checks and balances, which adversely affects the justice system and results in double standards.
  
• Moreover, the constitution is undemocratic as it resulted from the 2006 military coup.
  
• The charter creates divisions among the public, which necessitates drawing up a new and a more democratic constitution, the drafting panel said.
  

Edited February 10, 2012 by metisdead
Bold font removed. Posting in all capitals or in all bold, and using large or unusual fonts and colors is bad netiquette.

[Orac]

All this poll seems to show is that there is no consensus over what people want.

The bottom line is surely to give people a clear choice that they can vote on by presenting them with an alternative option and give them a free vote with no strings attached on which one they want.

[sparebox2]

Charter rewrite is to benefit Thaksin and Thaksin alone. hence we have to help to stop it at all cost. Even another coup is better than to white wash Thaksin.

Also the rewrite will allow loop hole to change the 112 law, which is unimaginable.

[CalgaryII]

We learned from that recent Amsterdam interview, that the Military has a couple red lines, over which the Govt. cannot cross....as undemocratic as that may be.

The electoral majority and dominant Political Movement in the country also have a red line....That being Constitutional reform, for reasons stated in Post #5 above. They see the current coup generated constitution, as an existential threat, hence the "red lne"

To suggest otherwise by an Oppositional polling instrument is as I said, "Agenda Laundering"

Charter rewrite is to benefit Thaksin and Thaksin alone

The opposition is trying to characterize it as such, as a way of denigrating the initiative, in addition to Polls of the above nature.

The only germ of viability this opinion has, is that one needs to consider what drove the Opposition to construct the present Constitution in the first place. It was in many respects anti-Thaksin and his political Party. So to change, it may appear pro-Thaksin, when in fact it is correcting Constitutional deficiencies created for non-constitutional reasons.

So to reverse it in effect undo's what the Opposition did in the first place.

This narrowing of Constitutional reform motive by the Opposition plays well to their base, but is pooh-poohed by the majority electorate.

Not complicated.

Edited February 10, 2012 by metisdead
Please do not use bold font to highlight parts of posts you wish to respond to. Use the Insert quotation feature in the tool bar of the reply panel.

[pimay11]

We learned from that recent Amsterdam interview, that the Military has a couple red lines, over which the Govt. cannot cross....as undemocratic as that may be.

The electoral majority and dominant Political Movement in the country also have a red line....That being Constitutional reform, for reasons stated in Post #5 above. They see the current coup generated constitution, as an existential threat, hence the "red lne"

To suggest otherwise by an Oppositional polling instrument is as I said, "Agenda Laundering"

Charter rewrite is to benefit Thaksin and Thaksin alone

The opposition is trying to characterize it as such, as a way of denigrating the initiative, in addition to Polls of the above nature.

The only germ of viability this opinion has, is that one needs to consider what drove the Opposition to construct the present Constitution in the first place. It was in many respects anti-Thaksin and his political Party. So to change, it may appear pro-Thaksin, when in fact it is correcting Constitutional deficiencies created for non-constitutional reasons.

So to reverse it in effect undo's what the Opposition did in the first place.

This narrowing of Constitutional reform motive by the Opposition plays well to their base, but is pooh-poohed by the majority electorate.

Not complicated.

I think my neighbor is smoking the same thing you are. He thinks Thaksin paid off the IMF loan with his own personal money and there is no convincing him otherwise.

[CalgaryII]

I think my neighbor is smoking the same thing you are

But what about what I said?

I'm an endurance athlete, and have never smoked in my life.

Just because someone doesn't think a certain opinion is valid, doesn't invalidate it.

Edited February 10, 2012 by metisdead
Please do not use bold font to highlight parts of posts you wish to respond to. Use the Insert quotation feature in the tool bar of the reply panel.

[CalgaryII]

From my Thai wife's mouth

You trying to launder your opinion, using your saintly wife, Ozzieman05?

Edited February 10, 2012 by metisdead
Please do not use bold font to highlight parts of posts you wish to respond to. Use the Insert quotation feature in the tool bar of the reply panel.

[metisdead]

When replying to parts of people's posts, rather than using bold font, use the Insert quotation feature to highlight the content you are responding to:

Use of bold font is bad forum netiquette which could also be considered as shouting. From forum netiquette:

1. Please do not post in all capital letters, bold, unusual fonts, sizes or colors. It can be difficult to read.

[Moruya]

I think my neighbor is smoking the same thing you are

But what about what I said?

I'm an endurance athlete, and have never smoked in my life.

Just because someone doesn't think a certain opinion is valid, doesn't invalidate it.

I'm quite interested in how your conscience can endure your opinions. Do you have voices?

[CalgaryII]

I think my neighbor is smoking the same thing you are

But what about what I said?

I'm an endurance athlete, and have never smoked in my life.

Just because someone doesn't think a certain opinion is valid, doesn't invalidate it.

I'm quite interested in how your conscience can endure your opinions. Do you have voices?

Being contrary is a blast. Especially when the contrasting opinions are righteous and unassailable.

Maybe its' the voices....never thought of that.

Still trying to figure out the "insert quote" the Mod mentioned in Post #12 above.

His little diagram is hard to see with these tired ole' eyes.

Edited February 10, 2012 by CalgaryII

[metisdead]

His little diagram is hard to see with these tired ole' eyes.

If you click on that little diagram, it will expand to a bigger image.

[Reasonableman]

Especially when the contrasting opinions are self-righteous and unsaleable.

[CalgaryII]

Especially when the contrasting opinions are self-righteous and unsaleable.

There ya go Reasonableman.

Reading my posts again.

Stress and aggravation is not good you know!

[Reasonableman]

Especially when the contrasting opinions are self-righteous and unsaleable.

There ya go Reasonableman.

Reading my posts again.

Stress and aggravation is not good you know!

zzzzz nothing new here zzzzz

erf erf erf

[ianf]

We learned from that recent Amsterdam interview, that the Military has a couple red lines, over which the Govt. cannot cross....as undemocratic as that may be.

The electoral majority and dominant Political Movement in the country also have a red line....That being Constitutional reform, for reasons stated in Post #5 above. They see the current coup generated constitution, as an existential threat, hence the "red lne"

To suggest otherwise by an Oppositional polling instrument is as I said, "Agenda Laundering"

Charter rewrite is to benefit Thaksin and Thaksin alone

The opposition is trying to characterize it as such, as a way of denigrating the initiative, in addition to Polls of the above nature.

The only germ of viability this opinion has, is that one needs to consider what drove the Opposition to construct the present Constitution in the first place. It was in many respects anti-Thaksin and his political Party. So to change, it may appear pro-Thaksin, when in fact it is correcting Constitutional deficiencies created for non-constitutional reasons.

So to reverse it in effect undo's what the Opposition did in the first place.

This narrowing of Constitutional reform motive by the Opposition plays well to their base, but is pooh-poohed by the majority electorate.

Not complicated.

And what evidence do you have that the Poll is somehow run by and serves the interests of the opposition? It may serve your political ends to say that but such statements, not backed up by verifiable facts, are useless.

Also I would take anything said by Robert Amsterdam with a pinch of salt. He has made many statements over the past 12 to 18 months most of which turned out to be a load of codswallop. The guy is in the pay of your hero and master, Khun Thaksin, so there is necessarily a huge political bias in his statements.

Edited February 10, 2012 by ianf

[CalgaryII]

And what evidence do you have that the Poll is somehow run by and serves the interests of the opposition? It may serve your political ends to say that but such statements, not backed up by verifiable facts, are useless.

It incorporates many of the major Opposition agenda's:

• It is for the personal gain of somebody
  
• Present constitution not a problem
  
• Not needed now, but much, much later
  
• little concern for appointment of Independent Agency members and Part dissolution elements
  
• Characterizes the '97 Constitution as 'defunct'
  

These are all part of the Opposition agenda, diametrically opposite that of the Govt and its advocates for constitutional change.

Hence my conclusion that Polls of this nature are designed to 'launder Opposition agenda's' by having them seemingly expressed by the public generally. It happens too frequently to be coincidence.

Post #5 above give the constitution agenda of the electoral majority.

Also I would take anything said by Robert Amsterdam with a pinch of salt. He has made many statements over the past 12 to 18 months most of which turned out to be a load of codswallop. The guy is in the pay of your hero and master, Khun Thaksin, so there is necessarily a huge political bias in his statements.

Who said Khun Thaksin is my hero? Where did you get that from?

Now, if you said Arisman is my hero, you would be correct. How is that for some red meat on the table.

There is bias in your Posts, There is bias in mine, and there is bias in Amsterdam's pronouncements.

This bias does not invalidate anything the three of us say.

What he said about military involvement in Governance is nothing new. Everyone knows it. He just stated specific examples.

Besides, you show me any country where Generals are quoted in the news as the Thai Generals were yesterday, and I will show you an undemocratic country.

Edited February 10, 2012 by CalgaryII

[pastitche]

Now that calgaryll has joined the forum with his completely "redshirt=UDD=PTP=Thaksin" committed attitude it has been amusing and entertaining once again to read TVF. Gradually the foot soldiers of the oppositon alliance have fallen by the wayside and it is developing into a war with the lone champion challenging the forces of the anti-Thaksin heavy cavalry.

I find it most interesting that there are fewer attempts to target previous "Thaksin apologists" now that there is a real identified enemy to assail. Some of you might find redundancy uncomfortable.

Calgaryll, you are on a hiding to nothing but I admire your spirit and determination in face of massive odds - not that I agree with all of your views

[Ricardo]

one needs to consider what drove the Opposition to construct the present Constitution in the first place.

I wasn't aware that the junta-appointed military-government of former-PM Sorayud, who drew up the current Constitution & then held a national Referendum on it, were now the official Opposition ?

Do you have a source for this ?

[CalgaryII]

I wasn't aware that the junta-appointed military-government of former-PM Sorayud, who drew up the current Constitution & then held a national Referendum on it, were now the official Opposition ?

Do you have a source for this ?

"Birds of a feather, flock together" - sorta sums it up in 6 words. Not much more I can say.

There are essentially two sides to the Thai Political divide.

I don't need to list out all the Political elements on each side. You guys know who they are.

Those that I lump together under the umbrella of the Opposition, are all mostly interwoven anyway, Each playing their part. Some above ground, others below.

To be specific to this thread, these Opposition-friendly Polls are one of their underground elements. They pretend to be professionally researchy, but in fact are the 'Agenda Laundering" arm of the Opposition. Seemingly having independent citizens magically reiterate Opposition agendas.

The most significant difference between the two sides, is that one represent a minority of the electorate, and vice-versa for the other.

Not complicated.

Edited February 10, 2012 by CalgaryII

[siampolee]

“Where in the world is a single-party government called a dictatorship? What's wrong with it when people have faith in me?” '' democracy is not our aim",

Two of Thaksin Shinawatra coments

And there Calgaryll before your very eyes are the quotes from your hero Thaksin and his views on democracy.

T'would be an interesting charter rewrite would it not, lessons learnt no doubt by Thaksin from the happily late Kim Jong-il.

Of course if the despot returned to power no doubt those who can afford their principles would be on the first planes out of the country wouldn't you ?

Jane Fonda lives in Thailand , just changed her name and posts here

[CalgaryII]

“Where in the world is a single-party government called a dictatorship? What's wrong with it when people have faith in me?” '' democracy is not our aim",

Two of Thaksin Shinawatra coments

And there Calgaryll before your very eyes are the quotes from your hero Thaksin and his views on democracy.

T'would be an interesting charter rewrite would it not, lessons learnt no doubt by Thaksin from the happily late Kim Jong-il.

Of course if the despot returned to power no doubt those who can afford their principles would be on the first planes out of the country wouldn't you ?

Jane Fonda lives in Thailand , just changed her name and posts here

I'm not interested debating with Thaksin haters.

He is not my issue or interest.

If you want to talk Thaksin, find someone else.

In another thread earlier this week, somebody else tried to derail the Posts into a Thaksin hater discussion.

I appreciated a Mod stepping in and keeping it on track.

Edited February 10, 2012 by CalgaryII

[rubl]

Yet another poll with dubious results. Still usefull for all kind of fools, idiots and esteemed fellow posters to express their view of the world, poll results, and the political mayhem specifically.

I guess that means these polls are usefull