marquess Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I have a friend who has one of these dogs and it is nearly always chained up, I have often said to him that I could not have such an animal unless I had a staiser to hand as they are untrustworthy.These dogs are not pets, one may as well have a wolf or a lion and say that it is a pet. Pet at your own risk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooters Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) The scariest part of the pit bull is its face. They dont seem to give away anything before launching into an attack animals eaten alive by bears can be seen on you tube, it can take 20 mins so probably this chap went the same way time wise. your worst night mare. Edited February 10, 2012 by Hooters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Dogs are wonderful animals, but you always need to exercise a certain amount of care around them. I have a pet dog (mongrol). She's getting older now (14 years old). She's always been friendly and gentle, but any movement that she perceives as threatening to me will be met with a bite. I had a friend over, and after a few beers we were having a discussion and he leaned forward and she jumped him. Fortunately, she's not a fighter, so she doesn't draw blood, but I now keep her right next to me when there is company. Interestingly enough, she really doesn't like Farangs. Asians--Filipinos and Thais, never even get a growl! Dogs are pack animals and they are territorial. They protect others in the 'pack' including the owner and they protect their territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I had a fox terrier, a wonderful companion. It did not ever concern me that it was not a lethal weapon. Some varieties of dogs are just not safe around humans, and should be treated accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pastitche Posted February 10, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Pitbulls are morons (I just couldn't resist) On a more serious note my sympathies go out to this persons family and friends. What a horrific way to die? I have owned these types of dogs as well as others. If one raises a dog from a pup and if that dog has negative destructive or dangerous behavior one just needs to look at the owners for the way their dogs behave. No matter what breed of dog the responsibility of the dogs behavior is connected in some way to the owners and environment. I knew that there would be someone who would come up with the equivalent of "guns don't kill people. people do". These dogs have been bred for one primary purpose - fighting; you can argue all you want that an owner's failure to train it properly is the reason for its behaviour but you are ignoring the fact that it has been genetically modified to promote aggression and that aggression in the wrong circumstances will lead to tragedies. Humans and canines have lived together for thousands of years and we successfully turned them from predation to herding of animals that they would normally attack. That is a good thing but it enabled us to infantilise the dog; wild dogs don't bark, they don't lick your face - those are puppy ways to get attention and beg the adult to regurgitate food. We created an animal which fitted easily into human society because it was a pack animal and genetically predetermined to accept an alpha leader; by selective breeding dogs became became whatever we wanted - working dogs, hunting dogs, lapdogs whatever was wanted for productivity or ornamentation. But they remain genetically predators whose ancestry killed to eat just as ours did. The reason that they are not random killers is because of our manipulation of their genes. But along with the good features of assisting with herding, retrieving etc came the idea of using dogs as weapons in wars as practised by the Romans and that kiling and attack feature has been promulgated for a long time; the pitbull is an extreme example but police use of dogs is along the same lines Edited February 10, 2012 by pastitche 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moe666 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I am from New Mexico and every year someone is badly mauled usually several every year. The kids always take a beating from these dogs and yes it is usually one in the house or the neighbors dog, dogs that get out. But having said that the majority of dog bites come from other breeds typically someone putting their face into the dogs face. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooters Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 horrible pit bull fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastitche Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I am from New Mexico and every year someone is badly mauled usually several every year. The kids always take a beating from these dogs and yes it is usually one in the house or the neighbors dog, dogs that get out. But having said that the majority of dog bites come from other breeds typically someone putting their face into the dogs face. Yes I agree that most attacks, particularly on kids are not by the selectively bred killers; they are a small, if deadly minority of dogs and inappropriate behaviour by a small human who is not recognised by the dog as a higher member of its "pack" can lead to bites but not normally to being savaged to death. Some of the huge number of breeds of dog are not suitable to live in a normal human environment because that is not their purpose; pitbulls are bred to kill and if a human is not recognised as a pack superior he can be in danger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawaiimomo Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Maybe this kind of dog is more propense to attack, maybe. Anyway, any medium sized dog can kill you with its strong jaws and mandibule, not to talk if 4 dogs attack you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilyb Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Pitbulls are morons (I just couldn't resist) On a more serious note my sympathies go out to this persons family and friends. What a horrific way to die? I have owned these types of dogs as well as others. If one raises a dog from a pup and if that dog has negative destructive or dangerous behavior one just needs to look at the owners for the way their dogs behave. No matter what breed of dog the responsibility of the dogs behavior is connected in some way to the owners and environment. That is absolutely true. The unfortunate problem we face is that it's a lot easier to kill, beat or injure a dog than it is the owner - and when you're faced with constant harrassment and attacks by dogs your options are limited here. If this were urban Europe or North America you could use an institutional authority of course (in rural America, we have to fend for ourselves a bit), but here in Thailand there's really no option other than either A) putting an end to the threat or B] changing your lifestyle to accommodate someone's unruly mongrel. I like animals as much as the next person, but I don't like them more than I like my well-being and my peace of mind, so if it comes to me or the dog, the dog gets flowers. Edited February 10, 2012 by emilyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefoot1988 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 i grew up with a rottweiler. to be very honest, they are aggressive in the sense they will snap at any threat towards their "land" or towards their alpha or family without any warning. now to have these roaming around freely is pretty insane, these are not like soi dogs, they attack without warning, they don't even bark. I am a rott lover and absolutely hate all the haters but i even hate more for the irresponsible owners. A simple visit to a Thai family will reveal how they treat their dogs. Seriously, dogs under their care? even a labrador will bite. I am with for the ban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorcrazy Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 i grew up with a rottweiler. to be very honest, they are aggressive in the sense they will snap at any threat towards their "land" or towards their alpha or family without any warning. now to have these roaming around freely is pretty insane, these are not like soi dogs, they attack without warning, they don't even bark. I am a rott lover and absolutely hate all the haters but i even hate more for the irresponsible owners. A simple visit to a Thai family will reveal how they treat their dogs. Seriously, dogs under their care? even a labrador will bite. I am with for the ban And that picture here on thaivisa from the dog its not a pitbull ,but americam stafford. My fhater have about the last 17 years staffords and no problem with the dogs ,its like how to teach your dog. Let we be hornest the thaise they are really not good to the dogs,slaping with the hands on the top off the hard. When i see that somthime i turn my head. Here i have 6 dogs and i tel the people they come here on my propetey dont touch my dog. But not all thais like this,i leave before on village ,and there was one famelie they take care the dog from my to,i want to take the dog to my home ,after one day i loose him ,and whats happend the dog goes back to his old village . About 7 klm from here. THe man take care of the dog now. I take the dog from pattaya its was a puppy. Its was a street dog but in that 3 years its was a really farang dog with wat i think 28 kg jumping 1.5 meter high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffbu Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 ninety percent. of Thais should not be allowed to have a dog, of any kind, but 4 pit-bulls roaming free, god almighty. R.I.P. to this poor man,a terrible way to die. I agree 100 procent with this .Most Thais have not the discipline to train dogs and to be their boss Dangerous dogs like Pitbulls they should not take . And keeping 4 of them is not asking will they bite or attack but WHEN will they bite and attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 From this short article it seems the owner has let 4 pitbulls go out in public space without any supervision. The dogs then attack & kill the unfortunate soul without anyone hearing the noise that such a savage attack must make. It is possible the owner was there & had intent to kill his neighbour. Even if he was not witness to the attack he must surely be held liable & charged accordingly plus the dogs should be put down. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 An inflammatory post has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexth Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 When's the next TV meeting? Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 It's here now every day. Welcome! When's the next TV meeting? Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOboe57 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 What do the victims say about these cute little pets? http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-victim-voices.php The myths surrounding pitbulls... http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-myths.php And the attempts to disguise pitbulls by giving them fantasy names like "American Staffordshire"and the like in order to avoid legal bans and whitewash their reputation... http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-owners.php Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberkommando Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 If Thais cannot be taught to behave what chance the dogs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ManInSurat Posted February 11, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Pitbulls are morons. <deleted>. Please stop the anthropomorphization of animals. It's very annoying and not a very intelligent thing to do. They're not 'evil'. They're not 'morons'. They are dogs. A dog is an animal and not a human. It does not understand human concepts, nor should it. If you find one that actually does, you'll become an instant millionaire (maybe the dog will.) They have no concept, at all, that by biting, barking, snarling, growling or attacking they are doing something 'wrong'. Wrong does not exist for a dog. You can train an animal to do a repetitive action, but it's only going to comply for food and/or affection. It does not and will never understand. There's no argument against this. Is is a fact. There's no specific breed that attacks humans more than any other. The fact humans tend to breed Pitbull Terriers to be aggressive and for fighting, is where the problem lies. It's also an irrefutible fact, that if you're going to place what is effectively a domesticated killing machine, in very close proximity to human beings, they are occassionally going to be incidents of one attacking the other. This is compounded by having more than one dog, as dogs have an instinctive 'pack mentality' they cannot stop. The fault and irresponsibility lies with the humans in charge of dogs and how we use them. They are 100% to blame and should be held to account. This rarely happens as it's much easier to anthropomorphize and shift blame to an animal. It happens all the time. It's not just Thailand that has issues with its citizens controlling their animals, it's a global problem. I've known many many Westerners that would use a dog as a weapon to threaten another. It's very sad that someone has died as a result of a dog attack, but it isn't the first and won't be the last, if we insist on keeping them in such close proximity to us in their hundreds of millions, if not billions. What's vastly more disgusting is people that mistreat dogs either through negligence or outright abuse. We're sentient, we understand and should know better. That sickens me to my stomach. The only way to completely eradicate dog attacks on humans, would be for governments to ban all dogs as pets (which will never happen) and destroy every dog on Earth. Banning or exterminating specific breeds and applying these "dangerous dogs" tags is ineffective, as every dog, no matter the shape, size (aside from toy dogs), breed has and will attack humans for many varying reasons. It's just what they do. You don't believe a Golden Retriever, when reverting to its primal instincts, can kill a human? You're wrong. The fact is from narcotics to bomb disposal, from earthquake rescue to providing the blind with a companion who sees for them, dogs are very imporant to us. Humans are irresponsible. If Thais cannot be taught to behave what chance the dogs? It's amazing you get up early on a weekend to Thai bash. What's wrong with you? No boom boom long time? I'd say there's vastly more instances of 'Westerners' in their own countries having severe behavioural problems in general (London riots, unnecessarily heavy handed crackdowns on American protesters, the list goes on). Not to mention the hundreds of cases of animal cruelty and abuse, which appear as frequently in Europe and America, as they do here. In fact, one of the main reasons I love living here, is that Thais do know how to behave well in their own culture and country on the whole. They're much more reserved and polite as a generalization than Americans and Brits ever will be. In Surat, I've left both of my front doors unlocked for 7 years, overnight, every night. No one has ever touched my house. I lived in a leafy garden suburb in north London in the 80s and 90s and my house was broken into more than 5 times. How about you learn to behave and not post inflammatory comments about Thais on threads in future? Edited February 11, 2012 by ManInSurat 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexth Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 It's here now every day. Welcome! When's the next TV meeting? Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com Just as I thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberkommando Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 It's amazing you get up early on a weekend to Thai bash. What's wrong with you? No boom boom long time? I'd say there's vastly more instances of 'Westerners' in their own countries having severe behavioural problems in general (London riots, unnecessarily heavy handed crackdowns on American protesters, the list goes on). Not to mention the hundreds of cases of animal cruelty and abuse, which appear as frequently in Europe and America, as they do here. In fact, one of the main reasons I love living here, is that Thais do know how to behave well in their own culture and country on the whole. They're much more reserved and polite as a generalization than Americans and Brits ever will be. In Surat, I've left both of my front doors unlocked for 7 years, overnight, every night. No one has ever touched my house. I lived in a leafy garden suburb in north London in the 80s and 90s and my house was broken into more than 5 times. How about you learn to behave and not post inflammatory comments about Thais on threads in future? What a lot of irrelevant apologist nonsense. Thais are irresponsible when it comes to looking after animals, 27 years living in Thailand witnessing Thai animal cruelty and disgusting behaviour towards animals is why I commented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ManInSurat Posted February 11, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) What a lot of irrelevant apologist nonsense. Thais are irresponsible when it comes to looking after animals, 27 years living in Thailand witnessing Thai animal cruelty and disgusting behaviour towards animals is why I commented. "Americans, Brits, the Spanish, the French, the Germans, all nationalities are irresponsible when it comes to looking after animals, all of my years living on this planet witnessing human animal cruelty and disgusting behaviour towards animals is why I commented." It is NOT a Thailand-specific problem. For you to suggest otherwise, is the epitome of ignorance. Furthermore, what I said is very relevant, when you make a bigoted statement like: "if Thais cannot be taught to behave". How arrogant and condescending of you to say something like that. You spend a lot of your time trying to get Thais to behave do you? I despair for those Thais who are unfortunate enough to make your acquaintance, if that's the way you view them - basically like unruly children. I bet you wai and yim like the proper song-naa you are. Your statement tells me everything I need to know about you. You seem to have a constant anti-Thai agenda, which makes the fact you've been here for 27 years all the more confusing. According to you it's a nation of people that can't behave. Also, 27 years or 27 minutes IDGAF. You talk like that, you're going to get called out on it. Equally so, if you say disparaging things about Thais like that, I'm going to stick up for them seeing as they're not here to defend themselves. If that makes me an 'apologist' then I'm proud to be one. How convenient it is for you to have an anonymous platform to judge and criticize Thais in a forum they'll never see. Tell me something, do you speak to the Thais you must know like that? Do you speak to Thais in authority you know like that? You get pulled by a BiB looking for some tea money, do you tell them they need to be taught how to behave? Yeah, I didn't think so. If they knew how you talked about them and fully understood how you disparage them here, what would happen? I'd really like to let some of the Thais you know and iteract with on a daily basis read and understand how you view them as so greatly inferior. It'd make for a very interesting scene. I'll repeat myself. Animal cruelty exists everywhere and is equally (if not more) prevalent in the Western world than it is here. The only difference is in Thailand, it's unlikely you'll ever be prosecuted for it. As with all "well-behaved" countries around the world, Thailand has its own numerous examples of people doing right by animals. The elephant sanctuaries of the North, the park warden that commited suicide over land encroachment, the monkey schools of the South, the banning of elephants from BKK. I could go on. You watch a video of an underground dog fight, which is only really prevalent in Western culture and you sit there and tell me it's not barbaric and cruel. Undergound dog fighting is on the increase in both Britian and America. Then there's circuses, zoos, farms, barbaric abbatoirs (like the one shut down in Sydney this week) there are multitudinous examples of severe animal cruelty outside of Thailand, some of which Western governments are happliy complicit in. The fact that the average Thai has less of a conscience about the treatment of animals does not make them a nation full of people who can't behave as impeccably as you. Lastly, the headline "Man killed by 4 dogs" isn't any less surprising in Thailand, than it would be in any western country you could name. People are mauled constantly, it's in British papers every other day. It's wrong and digusting of you to infer that a problem like this can only happen here as this country's people can't control their animals as they themselves can't be "taught to behave". That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. Fact - This could have easily happend in your own country of origin and it'd likely just raise an eyebrow then. You attaching some Thai slant to it makes you a bigot and that is compounded by the fact that you've spent such a long time here. Jaded much? How's the snow up there on that 5000ft-high horse you're sitting on? Edited February 11, 2012 by ManInSurat 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisinth Posted February 11, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted February 11, 2012 Regardless of what some Pit Bull fanciers say about how gentle their dogs are with children, the fact remains that unfortunately these dogs were bred originally to fight. They are immensely strong and tenacious and IMHO unless they are very securely fenced in a private yard, they should not be allowed as pets. Perhaps even a ban, as this type of dog attracts a certain kind of owner. My condolences to Mr Khamchan's family and friends. Believe it or not, pit bulls can be wonderful family pets! But for that to happen, the animals need to be socially trained from an early age and become intertwined with the family group, understanding where they are in the "pack" order. Unfortunately, as mentioned by ratcatcher, they were originally bred for fighting, and this stigma attracts owners that perhaps should not be owners. In this particular case, the owner should be held accountable if the 4 pits were roaming free. If the attacked person was on private property when the attack began, then that is an entirely different story. I in no way condone attacks like this, but do believe that all facts should be given, So many time I have read of fatal attacks between dogs and humans that have omitted in the initial report that the animal(s) were being abused or teased before the assaults began, or that the victim was intruding on private property (their patch). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisinth Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 How rearing these dogs remains legal totally defies logic. They are an unpredictable menace, like time bombs waiting to explode. Condolences to the family of the deceased. No matter how gentle and sweet the owners always seem to claim their little dogs are the bottom line is that If they attack you they go for the kiill and have incredibly strong jaws. It seems hardly a week goes by that i don't read a story about them mauling or killing a kid or an adult or someone else's dog. Some animals simply are not suitable pets to mix with kids and people. Would you keep a lion around and then act surprised when it attacked someone? And yada yada yada that "my dog is sweet". Yeah they all seem to be sweet until they rip out the throat of a ten year old kid. Not really a fair comparison, lions and dogs. Lions are true wild animals where all dogs now are domesticated animals. Also remember that they have evolved to what they are now by cross-breeding and generic alteration to become what people want. Ok to do this with dogs, but try it with a human body, it is ungodly. Again, not a fair comparison, or is it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QualityTouristNumberOne Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I'll just leave this here... http://www.ywgrossman.com/photoblog/?p=676 "FOR OVER ONE HUNDRED YEARS AMERICANS KNEW PIT BULLS FOR WHAT THEY DID BEST. BABYSITTING. Part I." here is a short excerpt "Astoundingly, for most of our history America’s nickname for Pit Bulls was “The Nanny Dog”. For generations if you had children and wanted to keep them safe you wanted a pit bull, the dog that was the most reliable of any breed with children or adults. The Nanny Dog is now vilified by a media that always wants a demon dog breed to frighten people and LHASA-APSO BITES MAN just doesn’t sell papers. Before pit bulls it was Rottweilers, before Rottweilers it was Dobermans, and before them German Shepherds. Each breed in it’s order were deemed too vicious and unpredictable to be around people. Each time people wanted laws to ban them. It is breathtakingly ironic that the spotlight has turned on the breed once the symbol of our country and our national babysitter". back to me... I'm not saying there aren't problems with unscrupulous breeders,inbreeding and just plain bad owners, but a pit bull, Staffordshire Bull Terrier or Rottweiler is no more or less likely to attack you than lassie(Ironically the Rough Collie,Lassie's breed is quite a tempermental dog and not really suited to being around children. The more you know! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F1fanatic Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 ALL of the bull terrier breeds were bred to fight other dogs up until recently. BUT, unless they have an owner that encourages the 'fight' instinct, they love people and children. I grew up with a 'staffie' that my family took in as a 4 year old dog that was no longer suitable for 'showing' purposes as he had a skin problem. He was wonderful, but hated other dogs so only my father could take him for a walk without a lead. I love dogs and have 4 of my own but, whilst I have no problems with Pit Bulls per se, - I think prospective owners should be approved (and need to prove they have the ability to control their dogs) before being granted a license to keep one. Incidentally, I would not consider keeping one myself as I know I am not naturally 'authoritative' enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherstuff1957 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Here are some interesting statistics: Dog Bite-related Fatalities in the United States Year Total # Most fatal attacks by # Second-most fatal attacks by 2011 12 Pit Bull or "Pit bull type" (7) (58%) Rottweiler (2) (16.66%) 2010 32 Pit Bull (18) (53%) Rottweiler (4) (12%) 2009 30 Pit Bull (11) (32%) Rottweiler (4) (13%) 2008 23 Pit Bull (11) (43%) Husky (3) (13%) 2007 34 Pit Bull (15) (41%) Rottweiler (4) (12%) 2006 29 Pit Bull (12) (40%) Rottweiler (9) (31%) 2005 29 Pit Bull (12) (39%) Rottweiler (6) (21%) Dog bite fatalities by other breeds only occur once a decade or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Dog bite fatalities by other breeds only occur once a decade or so. That statement is certainly not supported by the data you presented. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F1fanatic Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Dog bite fatalities by other breeds only occur once a decade or so. That statement is certainly not supported by the data you presented. Quite. But let's not insert any sanity into this topic.... ANY dog that is capable of killing someone should be regulated and licensed, after proof that the owner is capable of not only controlling, but bringing them up in a way that negates any predatory instinct. Many years ago (in the UK), 3 rottweilers jumped the fences and ended up in my garden! I only had one dog at the time who was barking madly and ended up being pinned on his back by 2 of them... BUT, they were only controlling him (he was v territorial - much to my shame) and when I came running, they moved away. They had obviously been brought up well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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