Thai Man Mauled To Death By Four Pitbull Terriers

[airconsult]

Pitbulls are nasty. They have a hair trigger and can go off at any time, and once they do, there is not a lot you can do about it.

They should require a license to own and should always be behind high fences and never allowed to roam or off leash...ever.

As cute as they are as a puppy, and I saw dozens at Chat u Chuk last month for sale, like guns, they should not be available to just anyone. Until the day the dog snaps, people really don't know they have a ticking time bomb, and then it's too late.

I own a pitbull. There are certainly not for everyone. They are just too powerful, aggressive and unpredictable for your average person to handle and very few will give it the proper training.

I support a dangerous dog law that owners are 100% responsible for their dogs - if a dogs kills someone, it should be considered manslaughter.

Agree, I used to get worried looks from certain people because I bred French Bulldogs ( a very different, smaller and more friendly dog - but still strong-minded)

I would never have a pit bull in the house as I don't believe my wife would be able to dominate it.

Edit - I gave up French Bulldogs as they would persuade the missus to do what they wanted.

Cheers,

Edited February 12, 2012 by airconsult

[z12]

Thai people probably get pitbulls because of home invasions, but there are some that would also use them for murder, knowing they can feign innocence.

Edited February 12, 2012 by z12

[endure]

In May 2010, Lennox, a bulldog lab mix, was removed from his home in Belfast, Northern Ireland. The United Kingdom has a ban on pitbull type dogs, and after Lennox displayed protective behaviors when strangers entered his home, the dog warden determined Lennox was a pitbull type dog and would be removed from the home and euthanized. Lennox's family has made legal appeals in an attempt to stay his execution. A DNA test proved that Lennox was actually a bulldog lab mix, not a pitbull, but the test has not been allowed to be submitted to the court as evidence. Professional dog trainers and animal behaviorists Victoria Stillwell and Mic Martin have spoken on behalf of Lennox, noting that his behavior is typical of any dog protecting their home.^[55]

We've always had boxers and they've always 'displayed protective behaviours when strangers entered their home'. It's what dogs do. Our last dog was perfectly happy to allow strangers in our home as long as they sat still and kept quiet.

[pastitche]

Pitbulls are nasty. They have a hair trigger and can go off at any time, and once they do, there is not a lot you can do about it.

They should require a license to own and should always be behind high fences and never allowed to roam or off leash...ever.

As cute as they are as a puppy, and I saw dozens at Chat u Chuk last month for sale, like guns, they should not be available to just anyone. Until the day the dog snaps, people really don't know they have a ticking time bomb, and then it's too late.

I own a pitbull. There are certainly not for everyone. They are just too powerful, aggressive and unpredictable for your average person to handle and very few will give it the proper training.

I support a dangerous dog law that owners are 100% responsible for their dogs - if a dogs kills someone, it should be considered manslaughter.

If they are as dangerous as and unpredictable as you say, why do you have one? I am not trying to score any points here but I would genuinely like to hear

an owner's reason for having a dog that should always be behind high fences and never be allowed to roam or be off-leash

[Reasonableman]

Pitbulls are nasty. They have a hair trigger and can go off at any time, and once they do, there is not a lot you can do about it.

They should require a license to own and should always be behind high fences and never allowed to roam or off leash...ever.

As cute as they are as a puppy, and I saw dozens at Chat u Chuk last month for sale, like guns, they should not be available to just anyone. Until the day the dog snaps, people really don't know they have a ticking time bomb, and then it's too late.

I own a pitbull. There are certainly not for everyone. They are just too powerful, aggressive and unpredictable for your average person to handle and very few will give it the proper training.

I support a dangerous dog law that owners are 100% responsible for their dogs - if a dogs kills someone, it should be considered manslaughter.

If they are as dangerous as and unpredictable as you say, why do you have one? I am not trying to score any points here but I would genuinely like to hear

an owner's reason for having a dog that should always be behind high fences and never be allowed to roam or be off-leash

"No answer came the stern reply".

[DLock]

Pitbulls are nasty. They have a hair trigger and can go off at any time, and once they do, there is not a lot you can do about it.

They should require a license to own and should always be behind high fences and never allowed to roam or off leash...ever.

As cute as they are as a puppy, and I saw dozens at Chat u Chuk last month for sale, like guns, they should not be available to just anyone. Until the day the dog snaps, people really don't know they have a ticking time bomb, and then it's too late.

I own a pitbull. There are certainly not for everyone. They are just too powerful, aggressive and unpredictable for your average person to handle and very few will give it the proper training.

I support a dangerous dog law that owners are 100% responsible for their dogs - if a dogs kills someone, it should be considered manslaughter.

If they are as dangerous as and unpredictable as you say, why do you have one? I am not trying to score any points here but I would genuinely like to hear

an owner's reason for having a dog that should always be behind high fences and never be allowed to roam or be off-leash

My dog was a rescue dog. He was a great looking dog and very friendly to me when I first saw him. I was looking for a dog for security reasons for my remote property. He chose me.

He has always been good with people once he knows them, but not strangers. And he has always been bad with other dogs. He is behind high fences or chained and has never been able to roam. He is primarily an inside house dog, sleeps on my bed and is always 2 steps behind. He is at my feet now.

His suits my situation and is the perfect companion, but pitbulls are just not suited to suburban situations, around people or other dogs or allowed to roam. As good as my dog is, I would never recommend a pitbull to just anyone.

[DLock]

Pitbulls are nasty. They have a hair trigger and can go off at any time, and once they do, there is not a lot you can do about it.

They should require a license to own and should always be behind high fences and never allowed to roam or off leash...ever.

As cute as they are as a puppy, and I saw dozens at Chat u Chuk last month for sale, like guns, they should not be available to just anyone. Until the day the dog snaps, people really don't know they have a ticking time bomb, and then it's too late.

I own a pitbull. There are certainly not for everyone. They are just too powerful, aggressive and unpredictable for your average person to handle and very few will give it the proper training.

I support a dangerous dog law that owners are 100% responsible for their dogs - if a dogs kills someone, it should be considered manslaughter.

If they are as dangerous as and unpredictable as you say, why do you have one? I am not trying to score any points here but I would genuinely like to hear

an owner's reason for having a dog that should always be behind high fences and never be allowed to roam or be off-leash

"No answer came the stern reply".

You were about 10 seconds too quick to try and belittle me.

Bad timing slapnuts.

[chrisinth]

Pitbulls are nasty. They have a hair trigger and can go off at any time, and once they do, there is not a lot you can do about it.

They should require a license to own and should always be behind high fences and never allowed to roam or off leash...ever.

As cute as they are as a puppy, and I saw dozens at Chat u Chuk last month for sale, like guns, they should not be available to just anyone. Until the day the dog snaps, people really don't know they have a ticking time bomb, and then it's too late.

I own a pitbull. There are certainly not for everyone. They are just too powerful, aggressive and unpredictable for your average person to handle and very few will give it the proper training.

I support a dangerous dog law that owners are 100% responsible for their dogs - if a dogs kills someone, it should be considered manslaughter.

Agree, I used to get worried looks from certain people because I bred French Bulldogs ( a very different, smaller and more friendly dog - but still strong-minded)

I would never have a pit bull in the house as I don't believe my wife would be able to dominate it.

Edit - I gave up French Bulldogs as they would persuade the missus to do what they wanted.

Cheers,

Airconsult, if you have any of the bulldogs left could I borrow one to try with my missus?

[Reasonableman]

Pitbulls are nasty. They have a hair trigger and can go off at any time, and once they do, there is not a lot you can do about it.

They should require a license to own and should always be behind high fences and never allowed to roam or off leash...ever.

As cute as they are as a puppy, and I saw dozens at Chat u Chuk last month for sale, like guns, they should not be available to just anyone. Until the day the dog snaps, people really don't know they have a ticking time bomb, and then it's too late.

I own a pitbull. There are certainly not for everyone. They are just too powerful, aggressive and unpredictable for your average person to handle and very few will give it the proper training.

I support a dangerous dog law that owners are 100% responsible for their dogs - if a dogs kills someone, it should be considered manslaughter.

If they are as dangerous as and unpredictable as you say, why do you have one? I am not trying to score any points here but I would genuinely like to hear

an owner's reason for having a dog that should always be behind high fences and never be allowed to roam or be off-leash

"No answer came the stern reply".

You were about 10 seconds too quick to try and belittle me.

Bad timing slapnuts.

The question was open to all to reply, and despite 4 pages of discussion, no-one had explained why they keep killer dogs. Thank you for your feedback. I expected no less more.

[chrisinth]

I have a simplistic and perhaps naive view of dangerous dogs. I believe that the dog is a descendant of the wolf (primarily - although other canids may well have contributed) and has been selectively bred to produce characteristics that were useful to humans in the environment in which they were both living. The wolf has natural instincts that are only too apparent in herding dogs, making the prey/herd crowd together, occasionally bolt so that the weakest stand out, circling and nipping at ankles and lower legs- the easiest way to bring down a prey animal whose defence is the same as its sexual authority ie horns at the front end.

Wolves do not breed indiscriminately - the alpha male mates with the alpha female who is the only one who achieves oestrus; Kidnap wolf pups or adopt lone wolves and the situation will change. Now they were living in a different society where the hormonal controls that prevent "promiscuity" existing in the pack no longer applied whilst the pack instinct remained. This enabled breeding for changes that we humans desired.

Our first use of dogs I believe was primarily for their hunting skills and these were later adapted to exploit their herding capabilities; I remember watching a small, probably stray dog effectively herding a group of pre-teen schoolchildren on an educational trip. He was better than the teachers at making them keep to the required crocodile formation.

We have taken our canines from the society that they evolved to survive in and infantilised them because that is more expedient and in the case of most dogs nowadays, "cuter". It's nice to have a little hairy bundle of fluff lick your face and yelp with excitement but he's not kissing you, he's displaying infantile behaviour which encouraged adult wolves to regurgitate food from the kill that they had cooperatively made.

You have to remember also that wolf packs do not fight to the death - their fights are normally territorial disputes and usually the pack that backs down is the intruder. The killing instinct does not extend to the same species in most animals

Anyway back to the topic, yes owners can make bad dogs through ignorance or irresponsibility but parents can do the same by bad parenting. However, first we are not going to regulate parenthood and secondly we have not selectively bred humans to be aggressive or to fight.

On the other hand, we have created Frankenstein dogs, animals who have been bred to behave against their own nature, basically we have created dogs that are potentially in human terms, psychopaths. We bred it into them largely within the last couple of millenia for attack dogs and a lesser time for fighting dogs; we can take those behaviours out by the same means and, given the advances in genetics much more rapidly than their creation took

Good post. They say that all dogs now are fully domesticated and the wolf gene has disappeared. In fact, the Bangkaew, which originated in the Phitsanulok provence is believed to be the closest related dog nowadays to the wolf. The story is that a domesticated dog bred with a wolf (some stories say jackal) and the litter was raised by the monks. You talk about dangerous breeds; check these out. Very loyal and territorial, Thai airforce (not sure about the other services) use them as attack dogs.

But, as you rightly state Pastitche, we have created frankenstein dogs, which have been further damaged through inbreeding by greedy breeders. However, the owner is responsible (or should be) for the animals he/she has.

[IanForbes]

Even though the below article is a few years old, the danger signs remain the same. Please note that this includes all dog types, not just the known danger animals such as Pit bulls, Rockies, Dobs, etc. The bottom line sums it up nicely. It may be slightly off-topic for this thread as this involves the unfortunate death of an individual, but it is a good heads up to people who aren't used to dogs and something to remember.

Here are some danger-signs that warn of a dog attack. Knowing them can keep you and your children safe.

1. A dog in its own yard, and no master present. In 2008, 78% of the human fatalities were by dogs in their own yard.
   
2. The pack mentality. Three dogs are worse than 2, 4 are worse than 3, etc. Docile dogs often become uncharacteristically violent and vicious when they are in a pack. In 2008, 39% of the fatalities involved multiple dogs.
   
3. Chained or tethered. Dogs that are tied up are dangerous. In 2008, 9% of the fatalities involved chained dogs.
   
4. Male. Male dogs are several times more dangerous than female dogs. Unneutered male dogs are the worst.
   
5. Newness. A new dog in the house is dangerous for the first 60 days, and a person who is new to a household where a dog resides is in danger of attack for the first 60 days. In 2007 and 2008, 20% of fatal dog attacks involved a new person or dog sharing a household for a period of two months or less.
   

The presence of any one factor indicates danger. Two or more of these danger-signs should be avoided at all costs.

Very good post, Chrisinth. I have been bitten by countless dogs, but only been attacked by one... a small male pitbull terrier. I have the scars on various parts of my body to show for it. I had to kill that dog with my bare hands and threatened to do the same to the owner who tried to stop me.

I was a paper boy as a youth and a mail carrier over Christmas holidays. That is when I got most of my serious bites. I was on the dogs territory and they were doing what many dogs do while guarding their territory... bite intruders. But, an attack is another thing entirely and only animals bred for fighting and killing do that.

I was raised with dogs and owned a few of them myself, and I know all the breeds and their tendencies. I love dogs and I am not affraid of any single dog, but a pack of dogs is another story entirely. We mostly had hunting dogs and all were friendly to everyone. However, there can be aggressive males in any species. Most will just give a single bite, and very often from behind. You can't stop a retriever breed from going in the water and you can't stop a hunter breed from hunting birds. Likewise you will have a hard time preventing a guarding species from doing what they were bred to do. Pittbulls were bred for one single purpose... fighting to the death. Any that DIDN'T have aggessive tendencies were destroyed.

Why in a modern world would anyone with a sane mind want to own a killing machine, no matter HOW gentle it might appear as a puppy? There a hundreds of breeds that would make suitable pets.

[cougar]

Just from a practical point of view, do you think pepper spray would walk on Pitbulls?

[Reasonableman]

Just from a practical point of view, do you think pepper spray would walk on Pitbulls?

Don't expect a written guarantee though...

[cougar]

Again from a practical view does anyone know how Pitbulls actually attack adult humans. With other dogs I think Pitbulls go for the throat. I suspect with humans they initially go for the limbs, cos we're so tall, then go for the throat when your down. So I suppose the lesson is don't go down, but then this is true of most combat situations. But I don't know, I'm just speculating, maybe they do just bite randomly. I read a post earlier about bears, but bears are omnivores, not carnivores, so they're Jack of All Trades, master of none, and it wouldn't surprise me if their killing technique was rather messy.

[chrisinth]

Again from a practical view does anyone know how Pitbulls actually attack adult humans. With other dogs I think Pitbulls go for the throat. I suspect with humans they initially go for the limbs, cos we're so tall, then go for the throat when your down. So I suppose the lesson is don't go down, but then this is true of most combat situations. But I don't know, I'm just speculating, maybe they do just bite randomly. I read a post earlier about bears, but bears are omnivores, not carnivores, so they're Jack of All Trades, master of none, and it wouldn't surprise me if their killing technique was rather messy.

Thankfully, have never had the experience. The below article is from dogbite.org and sort of explains what to expect:

"Through selective breeding, pit bulls have developed enormous jaw strength, as well as a ruinous "hold and shake" bite style, designed to inflict the maximum damage possible on their victims. This bite trait delivered winning results in the fighting pit. When the Colorado Supreme Court upheld the Denver pit bull ban in 2005, the high court set aside characteristics that pit bulls displayed when they attack that differ from all other dog breeds. One of these characteristics was their lethal bite:

"[pit bulls] inflict more serious wounds than other breeds. They tend to attack the deep muscles, to hold on, to shake, and to cause ripping of tissues. Pit bull attacks were compared to shark attacks."

All the above said, I still have the stance that the owner is ultimately responsible for the actions of their animals. As in the case with the unfortunate deceased in this thread, if the owner was guilty for letting the dogs roam free in a pack, them he should be held accountable. If however, the deceased was tresspassing on private property, which to my knowledge has never been clarrified, then that could be another story.

[z12]

Even though the below article is a few years old, the danger signs remain the same. Please note that this includes all dog types, not just the known danger animals such as Pit bulls, Rockies, Dobs, etc. The bottom line sums it up nicely. It may be slightly off-topic for this thread as this involves the unfortunate death of an individual, but it is a good heads up to people who aren't used to dogs and something to remember.

Here are some danger-signs that warn of a dog attack. Knowing them can keep you and your children safe.

1. A dog in its own yard, and no master present. In 2008, 78% of the human fatalities were by dogs in their own yard.
   
2. The pack mentality. Three dogs are worse than 2, 4 are worse than 3, etc. Docile dogs often become uncharacteristically violent and vicious when they are in a pack. In 2008, 39% of the fatalities involved multiple dogs.
   
3. Chained or tethered. Dogs that are tied up are dangerous. In 2008, 9% of the fatalities involved chained dogs.
   
4. Male. Male dogs are several times more dangerous than female dogs. Unneutered male dogs are the worst.
   
5. Newness. A new dog in the house is dangerous for the first 60 days, and a person who is new to a household where a dog resides is in danger of attack for the first 60 days. In 2007 and 2008, 20% of fatal dog attacks involved a new person or dog sharing a household for a period of two months or less.
   

The presence of any one factor indicates danger. Two or more of these danger-signs should be avoided at all costs.

Very good post, Chrisinth. I have been bitten by countless dogs, but only been attacked by one... a small male pitbull terrier. I have the scars on various parts of my body to show for it. I had to kill that dog with my bare hands and threatened to do the same to the owner who tried to stop me.

I was a paper boy as a youth and a mail carrier over Christmas holidays. That is when I got most of my serious bites. I was on the dogs territory and they were doing what many dogs do while guarding their territory... bite intruders. But, an attack is another thing entirely and only animals bred for fighting and killing do that.

I was raised with dogs and owned a few of them myself, and I know all the breeds and their tendencies. I love dogs and I am not affraid of any single dog, but a pack of dogs is another story entirely. We mostly had hunting dogs and all were friendly to everyone. However, there can be aggressive males in any species. Most will just give a single bite, and very often from behind. You can't stop a retriever breed from going in the water and you can't stop a hunter breed from hunting birds. Likewise you will have a hard time preventing a guarding species from doing what they were bred to do. Pittbulls were bred for one single purpose... fighting to the death. Any that DIDN'T have aggessive tendencies were destroyed.

Why in a modern world would anyone with a sane mind want to own a killing machine, no matter HOW gentle it might appear as a puppy? There a hundreds of breeds that would make suitable pets.

Most likely, there are people they want the dog to kill. Home intruders, cheating wife, etc.

Edited February 13, 2012 by z12

[katana]

I was reading a similar pit bull story last month.

A 71 year-old Thai mother was savaged to death on 14/01/12 in her own home in Ramintra Rd in BKK by her 46 year-old son's pit bull terrier. Apparently she was quite wealthy owning a Thai restaurant in the States. Afterwards the son was trying to console himself by saying it was karma.

Tragic story.

http://www.thairath....t/region/224028

That sounds like a homicide then.

No, what he meant was that it was fate, it was 'written' and blame doesn't attach to anyone.

[Reasonableman]

I was reading a similar pit bull story last month.

A 71 year-old Thai mother was savaged to death on 14/01/12 in her own home in Ramintra Rd in BKK by her 46 year-old son's pit bull terrier. Apparently she was quite wealthy owning a Thai restaurant in the States. Afterwards the son was trying to console himself by saying it was karma.

Tragic story.

http://www.thairath....t/region/224028

That sounds like a homicide then.

No, what he meant was that it was fate, it was 'written' and blame doesn't attach to anyone.

Was Karma the dog's name? BTW, who will get the restaurant?

[Scott]

A troll post has been removed.

[pastitche]

Even though the below article is a few years old, the danger signs remain the same. Please note that this includes all dog types, not just the known danger animals such as Pit bulls, Rockies, Dobs, etc. The bottom line sums it up nicely. It may be slightly off-topic for this thread as this involves the unfortunate death of an individual, but it is a good heads up to people who aren't used to dogs and something to remember.

Here are some danger-signs that warn of a dog attack. Knowing them can keep you and your children safe.

1. A dog in its own yard, and no master present. In 2008, 78% of the human fatalities were by dogs in their own yard.
   
2. The pack mentality. Three dogs are worse than 2, 4 are worse than 3, etc. Docile dogs often become uncharacteristically violent and vicious when they are in a pack. In 2008, 39% of the fatalities involved multiple dogs.
   
3. Chained or tethered. Dogs that are tied up are dangerous. In 2008, 9% of the fatalities involved chained dogs.
   
4. Male. Male dogs are several times more dangerous than female dogs. Unneutered male dogs are the worst.
   
5. Newness. A new dog in the house is dangerous for the first 60 days, and a person who is new to a household where a dog resides is in danger of attack for the first 60 days. In 2007 and 2008, 20% of fatal dog attacks involved a new person or dog sharing a household for a period of two months or less.
   

The presence of any one factor indicates danger. Two or more of these danger-signs should be avoided at all costs.

Very good post, Chrisinth. I have been bitten by countless dogs, but only been attacked by one... a small male pitbull terrier. I have the scars on various parts of my body to show for it. I had to kill that dog with my bare hands and threatened to do the same to the owner who tried to stop me.

I was a paper boy as a youth and a mail carrier over Christmas holidays. That is when I got most of my serious bites. I was on the dogs territory and they were doing what many dogs do while guarding their territory... bite intruders. But, an attack is another thing entirely and only animals bred for fighting and killing do that.

I was raised with dogs and owned a few of them myself, and I know all the breeds and their tendencies. I love dogs and I am not affraid of any single dog, but a pack of dogs is another story entirely. We mostly had hunting dogs and all were friendly to everyone. However, there can be aggressive males in any species. Most will just give a single bite, and very often from behind. You can't stop a retriever breed from going in the water and you can't stop a hunter breed from hunting birds. Likewise you will have a hard time preventing a guarding species from doing what they were bred to do. Pittbulls were bred for one single purpose... fighting to the death. Any that DIDN'T have aggessive tendencies were destroyed.

Why in a modern world would anyone with a sane mind want to own a killing machine, no matter HOW gentle it might appear as a puppy? There a hundreds of breeds that would make suitable pets.

I love dogs, the only one I had as a child had to be rehomed because of my then allergy to dog hair That passed as I grew older, so was not a chronic problem. I have a dog now that I refer to as a ladies' accessory because she is a small Shi Tsu. But she is a dog and not a toy or dolly or plaything; she exhibits canine behaviour all the time. She was not my choice of breed but that is a story for another and less serious thread

I completely agree that owners are the main reason that dogs will behave in what to us humans is an anti-social way but most of the time they are merely acting instinctively in the way that evolution has programmed them. They are territorial and because of domestication think of humans as part of the pack or as outsiders; they are not able to rationalise that humans are a different species which does not recognise the message that the dog is sending out. So if you act aginst their instincts you might get bitten.

However you are unlikely to be mauled to death by the average family pet.

Dogs like pitbulls have no place in a society that does not regard as a sport, selectively bred animals fighting to the death.

[pastitche]

I have a simplistic and perhaps naive view of dangerous dogs. I believe that the dog is a descendant of the wolf (primarily - although other canids may well have contributed) and has been selectively bred to produce characteristics that were useful to humans in the environment in which they were both living. The wolf has natural instincts that are only too apparent in herding dogs, making the prey/herd crowd together, occasionally bolt so that the weakest stand out, circling and nipping at ankles and lower legs- the easiest way to bring down a prey animal whose defence is the same as its sexual authority ie horns at the front end.

Wolves do not breed indiscriminately - the alpha male mates with the alpha female who is the only one who achieves oestrus; Kidnap wolf pups or adopt lone wolves and the situation will change. Now they were living in a different society where the hormonal controls that prevent "promiscuity" existing in the pack no longer applied whilst the pack instinct remained. This enabled breeding for changes that we humans desired.

Our first use of dogs I believe was primarily for their hunting skills and these were later adapted to exploit their herding capabilities; I remember watching a small, probably stray dog effectively herding a group of pre-teen schoolchildren on an educational trip. He was better than the teachers at making them keep to the required crocodile formation.

We have taken our canines from the society that they evolved to survive in and infantilised them because that is more expedient and in the case of most dogs nowadays, "cuter". It's nice to have a little hairy bundle of fluff lick your face and yelp with excitement but he's not kissing you, he's displaying infantile behaviour which encouraged adult wolves to regurgitate food from the kill that they had cooperatively made.

You have to remember also that wolf packs do not fight to the death - their fights are normally territorial disputes and usually the pack that backs down is the intruder. The killing instinct does not extend to the same species in most animals

Anyway back to the topic, yes owners can make bad dogs through ignorance or irresponsibility but parents can do the same by bad parenting. However, first we are not going to regulate parenthood and secondly we have not selectively bred humans to be aggressive or to fight.

On the other hand, we have created Frankenstein dogs, animals who have been bred to behave against their own nature, basically we have created dogs that are potentially in human terms, psychopaths. We bred it into them largely within the last couple of millenia for attack dogs and a lesser time for fighting dogs; we can take those behaviours out by the same means and, given the advances in genetics much more rapidly than their creation took

Good post. They say that all dogs now are fully domesticated and the wolf gene has disappeared. In fact, the Bangkaew, which originated in the Phitsanulok provence is believed to be the closest related dog nowadays to the wolf. The story is that a domesticated dog bred with a wolf (some stories say jackal) and the litter was raised by the monks. You talk about dangerous breeds; check these out. Very loyal and territorial, Thai airforce (not sure about the other services) use them as attack dogs.

But, as you rightly state Pastitche, we have created frankenstein dogs, which have been further damaged through inbreeding by greedy breeders. However, the owner is responsible (or should be) for the animals he/she has.

Thanks Chris for the info about the Bangkaew which my wife told me about - the models of them on the way into the park where I live look really cute.

[pastitche]

Chrisinth

I know your dogs and they are really beautiful, well behaved and morbidly soporific when I have seen them but they like others bred for the same work purpose still look so much like wolves that they could play parts in wolf movies - if you could get them to wake up long enough.

Beautiful animals and obviously well trained; not the same as those we are discussing

[annabel]

Yup and that was the point in me posting this long post .... I have stray dogs and all are rescue dogs I brought from India and when a stranger comes to the gate or acroos the 3 waterway canal that surrounds my property which has no compound wall you can rest assure that they are there barking ans showing agressivity in the sense that " Hey who are you and why are you there...??" And it's great cause it makes me feel very secure.... My dogs are never tied up and well taken care of and of very good behavior once they know that I am comfortable with the new person//// So when I read certain people on this forum and their Hitler type reasonning or baloney statistics it just makes me wonder about humans all together ////... by the way Boxers are Great Dogs... I love them and would have one any time ....

In May 2010, Lennox, a bulldog lab mix, was removed from his home in Belfast, Northern Ireland. The United Kingdom has a ban on pitbull type dogs, and after Lennox displayed protective behaviors when strangers entered his home, the dog warden determined Lennox was a pitbull type dog and would be removed from the home and euthanized. Lennox's family has made legal appeals in an attempt to stay his execution. A DNA test proved that Lennox was actually a bulldog lab mix, not a pitbull, but the test has not been allowed to be submitted to the court as evidence. Professional dog trainers and animal behaviorists Victoria Stillwell and Mic Martin have spoken on behalf of Lennox, noting that his behavior is typical of any dog protecting their home.^[55]

We've always had boxers and they've always 'displayed protective behaviours when strangers entered their home'. It's what dogs do. Our last dog was perfectly happy to allow strangers in our home as long as they sat still and kept quiet.

[Partygirl]

Does anyone know how these dogs were held, how they were treated?

In my opinion a dog can only be as good as his owner.

[pastitche]

Yup and that was the point in me posting this long post .... I have stray dogs and all are rescue dogs I brought from India and when a stranger comes to the gate or acroos the 3 waterway canal that surrounds my property which has no compound wall you can rest assure that they are there barking ans showing agressivity in the sense that " Hey who are you and why are you there...??" And it's great cause it makes me feel very secure.... My dogs are never tied up and well taken care of and of very good behavior once they know that I am comfortable with the new person//// So when I read certain people on this forum and their Hitler type reasonning or baloney statistics it just makes me wonder about humans all together ////... by the way Boxers are Great Dogs... I love them and would have one any time ....

In May 2010, Lennox, a bulldog lab mix, was removed from his home in Belfast, Northern Ireland. The United Kingdom has a ban on pitbull type dogs, and after Lennox displayed protective behaviors when strangers entered his home, the dog warden determined Lennox was a pitbull type dog and would be removed from the home and euthanized. Lennox's family has made legal appeals in an attempt to stay his execution. A DNA test proved that Lennox was actually a bulldog lab mix, not a pitbull, but the test has not been allowed to be submitted to the court as evidence. Professional dog trainers and animal behaviorists Victoria Stillwell and Mic Martin have spoken on behalf of Lennox, noting that his behavior is typical of any dog protecting their home.^[55]

We've always had boxers and they've always 'displayed protective behaviours when strangers entered their home'. It's what dogs do. Our last dog was perfectly happy to allow strangers in our home as long as they sat still and kept quiet.

Hey I have known boxers and lots of other dogs not particularly bred for companionship; eg my dad bred greyhounds, they are are great pets and wonderful with children unless you want to race them when socialisation has to be a bit less important than training and exercise but let a small kid walk one and it sees a cat ...(my grandad was a bit silly with small boys) but they were bred for racing and there's never a live hare on the track so the killer thing is no different from my Shi-tsu and and her favourite stuffed toy - a longarmed monkey.

My only problem is with dogs that have been selectively created for a purpose that is completely against what evolution designed them to be and that is what the pitbull unfotunately represents.

I wish I could say I had an Irish wolfhound or something like that and it''s a real pussy but I don't

[GentlemanJim]

There is a lot of talk on here about wolves in association with the violence being shown by certain dogs. The thing is that there are very very few instances of a Wolf attacking a man. Wolves were hunted to extinction in the UK and many parts of europe due to superstition and incorrect tales of wolf attacks (The child's story of Little Red Riding Hood being a prime example, of our distrust of them). Wolves kill other animals for food and steer well clear of humans. There have been many types of canine that have contributed to the very diverse array of dogs we see today. I would rather have a wolf as a pet than a pitbull. Dogs that are aggressive have been bred that way.

[z12]

There is a lot of talk on here about wolves in association with the violence being shown by certain dogs. The thing is that there are very very few instances of a Wolf attacking a man. Wolves were hunted to extinction in the UK and many parts of europe due to superstition and incorrect tales of wolf attacks (The child's story of Little Red Riding Hood being a prime example, of our distrust of them). Wolves kill other animals for food and steer well clear of humans. There have been many types of canine that have contributed to the very diverse array of dogs we see today. I would rather have a wolf as a pet than a pitbull. Dogs that are aggressive have been bred that way.

Much like shark attacks, they happen but not often.

http://en.wikipedia....tacks_on_humans

Edited February 13, 2012 by z12

[pastitche]

There is a lot of talk on here about wolves in association with the violence being shown by certain dogs. The thing is that there are very very few instances of a Wolf attacking a man. Wolves were hunted to extinction in the UK and many parts of europe due to superstition and incorrect tales of wolf attacks (The child's story of Little Red Riding Hood being a prime example, of our distrust of them). Wolves kill other animals for food and steer well clear of humans. There have been many types of canine that have contributed to the very diverse array of dogs we see today. I would rather have a wolf as a pet than a pitbull. Dogs that are aggressive have been bred that way.

I agree with you entirely although I think the wolf was the major contributor to our canine gene pool; whether today's wolves and their avoidance of us are a true reflection of their ancestors , given persecution on a genocidal scale by humans is an interesting question. Whatever the case is they surely do not have behaviours that the pitbull has. We have created psychotic dogs - time to reverse that

[F1fanatic]

Pitbulls were bred to be aggressive a few decades ago but, times have changed and its only a tiny minority (of dog fighting enthusiasts) nowadays who do so. As always, its down to the owner...

For those of you who are convinced that all pitbulls are 'psychotic' and will 'attack on a trigger' - watch the Dog Whisperer.

As I said in an earlier post, I would not adopt one myself as I know I am not authoritive enough.

Most terriers (especially bull terriers) need a stong, dominating personality to take charge. Personally, I have enough problems with my whippet's behaviour ! He is not at all 'dominant' and doesn't seem to understand the concept (!) BUT, I have problems enough distracting him from hunting small animals.

[katana]

...BTW, who will get the restaurant?...

They say people rationalise other people's behaviour and attribute motives to them that they themselves are capable of. Maybe you would bump your own mother off for the inheritance (if she had any) lol

PS I take it that you're one of the tattooed pit bull owners mentioned earlier.