What To Do When The Real Estate Agency Doesn'T Give Back Your Deposit?

[PoodMaiDai]

So far, I've not been at all impressed with the Thai real estate agents I've run across. After several unpleasant experiences with trying to rent a house, I had to accept the fact: they simply do not come to business deals with the same assumptions common for westerners.

I have had three landlords here, and two ran the gamut of excuses before finally returning my deposit. On the up side, I have gotten my money back every time, but not without a fight.

When I first came to CM to look for a place to rent, I went through several agents. All of which are big advertisers around town. To be honest, I don't know how any of them stay in business.

Between them not returning calls to taking me to place that were 100% the opposite of what I was looking for to them not knowing anything about the properties, they were ALL a mess. We ended up finding a place on our own and I will never recommended anyone to use the agents again.

If you are using an agent and wonder why you're place is never rented, I am telling you why. Your agent sucks and probably doesn't even show people your property.

[Strawberryfields]

Thank you all for posting, it is much appreciated. With enough, maybe too much, patience and willingness I have been trying to solve this case. I am a strong believer of elegant behaviour, but because the agency and owner kept ignoring my calls, emails and letters, I felt the need to find sources online for information and support.

So far I wanted to solve this situation on my own, without interference of police or other 'serious' parties, because I thought we would be mature and professional enough to handle this privately. But I have shown enough tolerance for their unprofessional and disrespectful way of interacting, and I just can't walk away from it anymore.

I first thought: if the owner & agency need my deposit this badly, then my money is well spent. But the way they played the game, the way they played me ... it is just not OK.

At the moment I am literally caught up in a snowstorm, but in a week or so I will be back in Chiang Mai and will continue calling, writing and visiting the office again. As I am still in the process with the agency & owner, I can't share details online. But the more I think about it, the stronger I believe the money is not theirs, so I will keep putting effort in getting it back and canalise it into something positive.

Sorry for answering only a few questions posted, I had no idea this thread would bring up this many responses.

Is the real estate agency known among the westerners in town?

If you held up your end of the contract entirely, go to them again with a third party, and ask again why they are not giving up your deposit. I have heard that some real estate companies act as management companies for the owner and collect rent and handle all the paperwork. If you were entirely correct you could mention to them that you will give them bad publicity by bringing it up to the Expat Club, City Life Magazine and other English speaking publications.

The agency is wellknown among Westerners and I think it is connected with a few expat organisations. And they (agency & owner) also told me reasons for not giving it back to me, and even though I understand their thoughts, the reasons are not grounded/ legit.

Yes, the agency is the "middle man", it did all the paperwork and I still have the deposit receipt and contract.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/default/happy.png[/img]' timestamp='1329200356' post='5054060']

Weird.

I am one of the few whom first started a Real Estate Agency in Chiang Mai many years ago and so I know how most if not all the Real Estate Agencies/Agents operates.

The Rental Deposit is always/must be made to the Owner instead of the Real Estate Agency/Agent as the Real Estate Agencies/Agents do not have the authority to lease out the property directly to you and hence they do not have the authority to collect Rent and/or Deposit on the Owner's behalf; unless in some cases but very uncommon (only came across once in 9 years) the Owner has given Power of Attorney to the Real Estate Agency/Agent to lease and manage the property on his/her behalf but in this case, you could still hold both the Real Estate Agency and the Owner responsible.

In recent years, there are more and more cases of Owners fleeing Tenant's Rental Deposit. Hence, there is a possibility that could be the case when your Real Estate Agent says that it was the Owner whom refused to give you back your deposit.

Whose name was on the receipt of your Rental Deposit? Presumably you must have a receipt for the money you paid and for what purpose? Probably the receiptient of your deposit may be in the contract too?

Not taking sides here between the Owner and the Real Estate Agency/Agent but if there is a receipt for your Rental Deposit, it's the issuer of the receipt of your deposit you have to go after. If the issuer of the receipt is your Real Estate Agency/Agent, there is a very high probability that they may have illegally collected rent and/or deposit on the Landlord's/Landlady's behalf. Or even if the Real Estate Agency/Agent may have collected rent and deposit legally with Power of Attorney from the Owner, and the money may have gone to the Owner, you may still hold both parties responsible. Go after the issuer of the receipt of your Rental Deposit and let the Real Estate Agency/Agent and Owner sought out their own issues themselves.

Anyway, regardless the issuer of the receipt of your deposit is the Real Estate Agency/Agent or the Owner, a trip down to the police station within the jurisdiction of the Rental Property and a couple phone calls from the police to the Real Estate Agency/Agents and/or the Owner would solve the problem in most cases; the Real Estate Agency/Agent and/or the Owner is betting on the hope that most farangs are "presumably" rich and wouldn't go to the trouble of making it a legal issue and the hassles to get the deposit back. Therefore, in most cases, they would back down the instance they received a call from the Police.

I highly suggest you make a police report and take it from there. If your Real Estate Agency/Agent suggests that it was the Owner whom refused to give you back your Rental Deposit, it would help if you could get them to go down to the police station with you. If the story is true that it is the owner whom refused to give you back your deposit, try to get the Real Estate Agency/Agent on your side and make make a police report with the assistance of your Real Estate Agency/Agent would help greatly.

Hope that helps!

P.S. - To WTK, please don't be too quick in your judgement on Real Estate Agencies/Agents if you do not fully understand how each agency/agent operates and how they could help you. For instance, the contract, one provided by the Landlord/Landlady himself/herself, and a contract provided by a middleman-agency-agent in protection of both parties instead of a one-sided protection contract without any penalties of the Owner. Though, I do not deny the fact that there are many agencies/agents whom are just there for the commission and are totally useless when problem occurs but please try not to generalize.

Thank you for taking time for this lenghty post.

Maybe it is your agency I am dealing with...

The deposit receipt has the agency's and my name. Purpose of deposit is mentioned in the contract (in case I leave the apartment damaged). There is no doubt about the contract, I didn't break it in any way, the employee of the agency even admitted this on the phone. And when the other employee checked the apartment and told me it was Ok, my friend was there to witness.

But during negotiation (before signing the contract) I did offer to stay 2 months and negotiated a discount. I also offered to pay the whole amount (for 2 months) up-front, but they asked me to pay only for 1 month + 1 month deposit, which was fine with me. So this is the reason why I have not been given back the deposit: I said I'd stay 2 months, but moved out earlier. Until this day I still don't understand why they didn't accept my 2 months' rent in advance and why the contract didn't cover the whole 2 months.

And it's too bad my attempts to compromise were ignored, I thought my offer was really generous.

I asked a lawyer informally about this, and he said a contract is the end result of all conversations (verbally and written) held before signing. What's your view on this?

Yet another reason I go out of my way not to deal with Thais when money is involved.

I'd either call the police or park out front of their office and tell everyone walking in what they did to you. Be a pain in their arse.

Then I'm assuming we've had different experiences...

This is the first time I am dealing with a foreign (European) owner and a real estate agency...

I never had any problems with Thai owners.

But I have heard many stories about not getting back deposit as a standard procedure. I guess I had been lucky until a month ago...

Thanks again to all.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Strawberryfields

[udonguy]

and visiting the office again?

not many agents have offices so that narrows it down

[Dante99]

But during negotiation (before signing the contract) I did offer to stay 2 months and negotiated a discount.

...............

So this is the reason why I have not been given back my deposit: I said I'd stay two months but moved out earlier.

If you agreed to stay two months and negotiated the deal on that basis then you are obligated to pay for two months.

So you are not trying to get a deposit back, you are trying to not pay for the second month which you agreed to pay for.

Twisted sheeit, you are not getting screwed, you are trying to screw them.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Dante99

[WinnieTheKhwai]

But during negotiation (before signing the contract) I did offer to stay 2 months and negotiated a discount.

...............

So this is the reason why I have not been given back my deposit: I said I'd stay two months but moved out earlier.

If you agreed to stay two months and negotiated the deal on that basis then you are obligated to pay for two months.

So you are not trying to get a deposit back, you are trying to not pay for the second month which you agreed to pay for.

Twisted sheeit, you are not getting screwed, you are trying to screw them.

I have to agree this casts a slightly different look on it. Ultimately though it's what's in the contract. If the contract doesn't specify a 2 month term then none should be expected.

By the way: 1 month.. 2 months: this is more serviced apartment territory than a real rent agreement.

[NancyL]

Ahaa! New information. Let me see if I understand.

The OP looked at a place and was quoted a per-month rate, based on a month-to-month rental agreement. He liked the place so he said something like "can you reduce the monthly rate somewhat if I stay two months?" The price was reduced but then he moved out after a month, rather than the two he'd promised?

Do I have that right?

It would seem that at a minimum, the agent would be well within reason to withhold the amount of the discount that the OP received for the one month he stayed.

[Semper]

I did offer to stay 2 months and negotiated a discount. I also offered to pay the whole amount (for 2 months) up-front, but they asked me to pay only for 1 month + 1 month deposit, which was fine with me. So this is the reason why I have not been given back the deposit: I said I'd stay 2 months, but moved out earlier.

So why do you want your deposit back, as you didn't fulfill your part of the contract?

[naboo]

OP. doesn't deserve anything back by the sounds of him. There are bad landlords and bad tenants. I don't think this is a case of bad landlord.

[onthedarkside]

I did offer to stay 2 months and negotiated a discount. I also offered to pay the whole amount (for 2 months) up-front, but they asked me to pay only for 1 month + 1 month deposit, which was fine with me. So this is the reason why I have not been given back the deposit: I said I'd stay 2 months, but moved out earlier.

So why do you want your deposit back, as you didn't fulfill your part of the contract?

I have been watching this topic. Terms for return of deposit are often ignored by rentors. Usually a minimum number of months is negotiated and if the rentor cancels earlier then there are words in the contract that the deposit is not refunded. Don't know how many times my guests expect the deposit back when they have not met the terms of the signed (and explained) contract.

[Dante99]

I have been watching this topic. Terms for return of deposit are often ignored by rentors. Usually a minimum number of months is negotiated and if the rentor cancels earlier then there are words in the contract that the deposit is not refunded. Don't know how many times my guests expect the deposit back when they have not met the terms of the signed (and explained) contract.

Yeh, renters can be a real pain and often go off irrationally on landlords.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Don't know how many times my guests expect the deposit back when they have not met the terms of the signed (and explained) contract.

Situation seems almost as bad as reading, understanding and then living up the forum rules around here.

<getting coat..>

[udonguy]

don't stay agreed term = lose deposit

a no-brainer

[Berkshire]

But during negotiation (before signing the contract) I did offer to stay 2 months and negotiated a discount.

...............

So this is the reason why I have not been given back my deposit: I said I'd stay two months but moved out earlier.

If you agreed to stay two months and negotiated the deal on that basis then you are obligated to pay for two months.

So you are not trying to get a deposit back, you are trying to not pay for the second month which you agreed to pay for.

Twisted sheeit, you are not getting screwed, you are trying to screw them.

Happens all too often on TV--we never seem to get the full story. Some farang gets his panties in a twist, complains about the evil Thais, and gets the entire board on his side with only half the story. If this guy hadn't come clean, we'd all still be complaining about the big bad landlord. Geesh.

[uptheos]

Happens all too often on TV--we never seem to get the full story. Some farang gets his panties in a twist, complains about the evil Thais, and gets the entire board on his side with only half the story. If this guy hadn't come clean, we'd all still be complaining about the big bad landlord. Geesh.

Some posts are set up that way.

[scorecard]

I have been watching this topic. Terms for return of deposit are often ignored by rentors. Usually a minimum number of months is negotiated and if the rentor cancels earlier then there are words in the contract that the deposit is not refunded. Don't know how many times my guests expect the deposit back when they have not met the terms of the signed (and explained) contract.

Yeh, renters can be a real pain and often go off irrationally on landlords.

I've rented many times and I'm a landlord.

I guess half of the times i've rented to tenants I've made a few dollars, the other 50% of times I've lost money. Examples:

1. First time I rented was a disaster, new house, fully firnished, nice swimming pool. So called 'professional farang' guy wanted to rent an umarket house for his mier noi and her 6 year old son. Twelve months lease. Mier Noi and son disappeared after three months and left the house in tatters.

Farang bragged that he had wife and kids in England,who were waiting for hubby/daddy to finish his project in Thailand and come home.

Mier noi installed 'permenantly' in the house was, after disappearing, located by the agent, she claimed the farang often brough other very young girls to the house when pissed and demanded she and son watch the farang in full action with the new pick up.

Fifty % of the furniture broken or smashed, had to be thrown away, curtains had to be replaced, whole house had to be repainted. Farang, in rage had thrown full size cement blocks and more into the pool, at one stage threw mier nois Honda Wave into the pool. ool had to be drained and about 30 tiles replaced.

Farang totally disappeared, his company (international oil contractor) couldn't find him and eventually cancelled his work permit.

I didn't refund the deposit.

2. Same house rented to farang couple, wife was an alcoholic, called me or agent at least twice every week asking for new curtains, new furniture, new fridge , new water heaters, all of which were close to new. Wanted new water heaters because her friend was adamanant that a different brand used about 5% less electrcity (tenant was of course responsible for utilities bills).

At one stage had gotten quotations to replace all the swimming pool filter equipment, pump etc., (at my expense) because she had been guaranteed it would reduce the electricity bill by about 10%. The existing equipment was designed / installed by profesional company and was in good order. I didn't succemb.

At one stage paid the monthly rental 20% short. Her reason was that they were not using the pool because it was too cold.

Also regularly, when pissed, abused the staff from the moo baan: security, internal street sweeping, gardening staff etc.

I eventually asked them to leave and allowed them to use one month deposit money for the last month of occupation. Second month deposit I kept.

Lots of abusive calls which eventually stopped.

Edited February 18, 2012 by scorecard

[ARISTIDE]

"but moved out earlier" !!! I felt sorry that I make a fool of my self by telling you to go to the police.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Wow, scorecard.. Being a landlord suddenly doesn't sound all that attractive anymore.

[scorecard]

Wow, scorecard.. Being a landlord suddenly doesn't sound all that attractive anymore.

I guess quite a few landlords have had quite negative experiences, in all countries.

And I must be honest I've also had some great tenants who have gone out of their way to take very good care of the property.

And It's certainly true that there are bad and unscrupulous landlords.

Many decades ago I was renting a nice quite large apartment in Sydney. In a weak moment I agreed to let a girl from New Zealand sub-let the second bedroom. I had met her several times socially and she apeared to be quite mature and responsible.

The first time I paid the rent after she moved in she said: "OK what can we break which is the same value as the rent to get back at the rich landlord".

I moved her out within a few days.

My experiences, as a landlord, have taught me to have an agreement with the agent (where I'm not living locally) saying that agent must totally inspect the property every 30 days and send me photos with time / date stamp. 30 day insections also written into the agreement with the tenant. It wasn't my own idea, I got it from a casual conversation on a flight.

I have an English friend who decided to move to Thailand on retirment. Got a very sizeable payout at 60. He moved here and quickly bought up a number of houses and condos in Pattaya, for rental. I guess within 12 months, after a lot of serious problems with damage, demanding tenants etc etc., he sold the lot and used his funds for something else.

[udonguy]

well for balance I have been a landlord for three years and have never had a bad experience like this so. luckily, so far i can't say it's been bad but that was with condos not houses but not sure that makes a difference. I am currently getting out of being a landlord for different reasons (potential risk longer term) and will only retain a couple of large rooms for a basic income and sell off all the others.

There are some horror stories on here and am thankfull I've been ok (so far).

[Strawberryfields]

If you agreed to stay two months and negotiated the deal on that basis then you are obligated to pay for two months.

So you are not trying to get a deposit back, you are trying to not pay for the second month which you agreed to pay for.

Twisted sheeit, you are not getting screwed, you are trying to screw them.

Mmm... not trying to twist anyone's arm here... let alone 'screwing'. Yuk!

I am in between houses and I just needed a safe storage for my stuff while I'd be out of the country. I didn't want to bother friends with this, so that's why I wanted to pay for 2 months in advance.

The tenant before me had to have his friend to move out his stuff while he was out of the country, and I didn't want that happen to me as well. Why do you even think I'd pay 2 months upfront? I had never done that before.

I did offer to stay 2 months and negotiated a discount. I also offered to pay the whole amount (for 2 months) up-front, but they asked me to pay only for 1 month + 1 month deposit, which was fine with me. So this is the reason why I have not been given back the deposit: I said I'd stay 2 months, but moved out earlier.

So why do you want your deposit back, as you didn't fulfill your part of the contract?

Semper, I did fulfill my part of the contract, otherwise I wouldn't spend time and energy in this matter. I moved out earlier than intended, and the contract gave me the possibility to do so without breaking it.

Ahaa! New information. Let me see if I understand.

The OP looked at a place and was quoted a per-month rate, based on a month-to-month rental agreement. He liked the place so he said something like "can you reduce the monthly rate somewhat if I stay two months?" The price was reduced but then he moved out after a month, rather than the two he'd promised?

Do I have that right?

It would seem that at a minimum, the agent would be well within reason to withhold the amount of the discount that the OP received for the one month he stayed.

NancyL, I think in the process of negotiation no-one is making promises, it's a field of intentions of that moment. Hard promises are made in the contract. That's why we all are hung up on contracts. Even in LOS. If it had been up to me as an agent or landlord, I would have accepted the whole 2 months rent in advance + deposit. Plus I would have made a contract that would cover 2 months. Because that was what I offered as a tenant.

And I did try to meet them halfway, but when you're ignored and hear unprofessional and unreasonable excuses, you have to set limits.

My guess is that the real estate agency made a mistake by setting up the contract the way it did. And also by not reading my written proposal correctly. Admitting would have made things a lot easier.

And knowing you as one of the more serious TV-members, I am glad to read your last sentence. Because that was exactly what I offered in my final letter and face-to-face conversation.

Even more: not only did I offer the whole monthly rent (so no discount for me), but also my skills to promote the studio for the owner. And why? Because I believe in win-win situations and as a neo-hippie I like to leave places and situations peacefully. I am not afraid of 'losing face' by bending a bit. And certainly not when it could lead to a possible solution.

Thank you all for posting your opinions.

[wales01]

Is the real estate agency known among the westerners in town?

If you held up your end of the contract entirely, go to them again with a third party, and ask again why they are not giving up your deposit. I have heard that some real estate companies act as management companies for the owner and collect rent and handle all the paperwork. If you were entirely correct you could mention to them that you will give them bad publicity by bringing it up to the Expat Club, City Life Magazine and other English speaking publications.

careful - one very well know agent has strong connections to the Expat Club and others less so but still connected

What must I be careful of! Will they rob more because they are expat?

Edited March 3, 2012 by onthedarkside
quotes & response format corrected

[ataloss]

^ 'careful - one very well know agent has strong connections to the Expat Club...'

What? N will kneecap us?

[binjalin]

^ 'careful - one very well know agent has strong connections to the Expat Club...'

What? N will kneecap us?

Oh so funny? The point was, if you read the thread, was you cannot trust the club 'neutrality'.

[Card]

Is the real estate agency known among the westerners in town?

If you held up your end of the contract entirely, go to them again with a third party, and ask again why they are not giving up your deposit. I have heard that some real estate companies act as management companies for the owner and collect rent and handle all the paperwork. If you were entirely correct you could mention to them that you will give them bad publicity by bringing it up to the Expat Club, City Life Magazine and other English speaking publications.

Sounds fine but TIT. Money comes first - reputation some way after. In my experience all threats about bad publicity for errant business people is considred laughable by Thais. They don't think in those terms.

[MJo]

^^^^ Ref: "I ALWAYS move house if the landlord asks for a rent increase, no exceptions." Same here, without exception. I tell them when I sign the lease that if they decide to increase the rent then they are implying they no longer want me in the house and I will move. My last house is still unrented and empty after 4 years.

I have rented houses in CMai for various times over the past 20 years and always gave only the first month's rent as deposit, furnished or not, except for the now empty one where I had given the 1st and last: that was interesting as the landlady kept demanding the last month's rent after my giving notice when she wanted to increase, until she re-read the lease.

While they may not have spent the deposit, they likely need time to scrounge it up as it probably went to the realtor as the fee.

Take your time; as noted above there are a multitude of places for rent. Be prepared to walk.The rents keep going higher because farangs keep driving them higher by paying too much. Be advised these escalating rents are aimed at farangs.Ms Somchai hears that farangs pay a lot and she wants in on the action.

Thais seldom rent 2nd-hand houses, and if they do its temporary and not over 5000-8000B a month: Anything more is effectively monthly finance charges on a new home.

The U$ dollar has been low for several years now; U$30 vs 45 when I arrived. But realty has never compensated for the decline. Realty 'agents' are partly to blame for escalating rents, but it is we who sign the lease.

Take a look at the host of realty sites covering CMai and you will see thousands upon thousands of houses for rent or for sale, some for a decade or more. When, as an example, 'Avril' a realtor on the Chiang Mai magazine classifieds, keeps saying prices are 'fixed', you have only yourself to blame if you believe her. Nothing but nothing is fixed: it's your hard-earned money after all.

But i digress, back to my coffee

20 years ago, in 1992 it was 25 to 26 baht to a dollar. It shot up after 1997 crash but average since is around 35 range and declining back to 25's slowly. Granted there was three to four years period from 2001 when it was over 40 baht but that was just temporary. It's all there in the net to be found out via google.

Then there is thing called inflation. Again Thai landlords can go decades without raising existing contracts, only new ones but some point they are forced to raise the existing ones as well.

I personally know people who have stayed over 10 years in same apartment paying the same.

[wales01]

^ 'careful - one very well know agent has strong connections to the Expat Club...'

What? N will kneecap us?

Ha ha maybe bite your kneecap!

[jij]

Same thing happened to me with a very well known women who is associated with the expat community. She did a bait and switch on me with a rental and continued to show me sub-quality rentals and when i finally said that i need to find my own place, i suddenly had a contract with her and she kept a months rent, would not answer phone calls, not show up for meetings to settle this and after waiting in her office for a few hours and her not showing up, i was given half of what she herself said she would. I figured that she is too well connected and i'm the new kid in town. i caulked it up to a learning experience that will hopefully save me more in the long run. I'm told others have had issues with this well known women. TIT.

Edited March 7, 2012 by jij

[lizardtongue]

Nearly two years ago I rented a house in San Sai for 20,000bt a month off a divorced 26 year old Thai female.The house was bought for her by her ex-farang husband.She was so pleased we rented it to us as she said how embarrassed she was to ask for 200bt of fuel when filling up her car! She was going to share a room with a girlfriend and live off the rent. One week later she told us she was going to Europe to see a boyfriend.Now she had two months deposit in her pocket,(40,000bt) Ok I wished her well. Two months before we wanted to move out I told her that I am happy to make things easy for her as far as the deposit was concerned.40,000bt is a lot for her to find and I said we will not be paying rent for the last two months. Of course she said that we cant do that.I know it is technically illigal but what do you think the chances of us getting our money back? We left the house clean and the garden emmaculate.Does anyone on this forum blame me?

Sorry I am a little lost as to why the owner of the property has 40k THB (Is it because she took the 1st and last months rent, or 1st months rent and 20k THB as a deposit?)

If she took the 1st and last months rent then surely you do not have to pay the 'last months rent'? Are you also saying that you gave her 200 THB for gas/petrol? If so WHY?

I am not sure what you mean by technically illegal what was in the contract?

Just curious!

[Maejo Man]

Nearly two years ago I rented a house in San Sai for 20,000bt a month off a divorced 26 year old Thai female.The house was bought for her by her ex-farang husband.She was so pleased we rented it to us as she said how embarrassed she was to ask for 200bt of fuel when filling up her car! She was going to share a room with a girlfriend and live off the rent. One week later she told us she was going to Europe to see a boyfriend.Now she had two months deposit in her pocket,(40,000bt) Ok I wished her well. Two months before we wanted to move out I told her that I am happy to make things easy for her as far as the deposit was concerned.40,000bt is a lot for her to find and I said we will not be paying rent for the last two months. Of course she said that we cant do that.I know it is technically illigal but what do you think the chances of us getting our money back? We left the house clean and the garden emmaculate.Does anyone on this forum blame me?

Sorry I am a little lost as to why the owner of the property has 40k THB (Is it because she took the 1st and last months rent, or 1st months rent and 20k THB as a deposit?)

If she took the 1st and last months rent then surely you do not have to pay the 'last months rent'? Are you also saying that you gave her 200 THB for gas/petrol? If so WHY?

I am not sure what you mean by technically illegal what was in the contract?

Just curious!

Quite straight forward really, Two months rent as deposit is normal here. I paid 2 months rent on the house I am in currently. The woman was embarrassed because she could only afford to put 200 baht's worth of petrol in he car, due to not having much money.

[Rancid]

Well I keep hearing on TV that anyone that buys a property is a mug, never invest more than you are happy to walk away from, renting is better. All this in light of the fact that Thailand has never confiscated legally purchased property nor is likely to do so. In fact some people back home are forced out of their homes by governments increasing the land taxes to insane levels, yet Thailand is the place perceived as dangerous. Weird.

I bought a house in my child's name 6 years ago, I have had no hassles whatsoever, in fact upgrading the property keeps me amused. In the current market it has probably appreciated 30% less the upgrades. Seems to me the way the go.

Renting here is usually OK, however keeping the deposit does happen. Likewise tenants decide to leave early and want full refunds, seems many play the game one way or another. I've never had tenant problems, but a friend back home had all the floorboards in his house ripped up so the tenant could build a mushroom farm . The landlord isn't always the bad guy, there are some real whacko tenants out there as well. As for those that want deposits of 3K, then I guess that is what the interior of those low end properties is actually worth or who would take the risk?

As to who should refund a deposit if legally due, who signd the contract, the courts or police would have no interest in any other information. Usually that is the owner, agents I been told just want their commission and move on as they also know refunds can sometimes be problematic and want nothing to do with it. Generally the agent simply lines up the parties, gets a fee, then it is up to the contractual entities to sort out.