Nuclear reactor temperature at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi plant rises to 82°C

[midas]

Perhaps we have already gone past the point of no return?

The ocean is broken

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1848433/the-ocean-is-broken/?cs=12

[midas]

<deleted> ???

Osaka Professor Masaki Shimoji was jailed for 20 days in Osaka along with other anti-nuclear activists and he discusses the continuing repression by the Japanese government in order to prevent the Japanese people from learning about the continuing dangers from the Fukushima nuclear power plant catastrophe.

An English translation is provided by an interpreter as Prof speaks

[Dr Robert]

A truly chilling expose of the lies and deceit by the Japanese government regarding this nuclear accident, which threatens to rival Chernobyl. Worse, the contamination of the ocean is a major disaster-time to fess up and ask for help before we all begin to glow in the dark.

[midas]

A truly chilling expose of the lies and deceit by the Japanese government regarding this nuclear accident, which threatens to rival Chernobyl. Worse, the contamination of the ocean is a major disaster-time to fess up and ask for help before we all begin to glow in the dark.

Unfortunately Robert, Dr. Helen Caldicott says its much worse than Chernobyl (she says 10 times worse) because firstly there are 3 reactors which melted down not just one as in Chernobyl . And Chernobyl eventually stopped burning. She described Chernobyl as a sort of a radioactive mausoleum because it’s all quiet in the Ukraine, but these reactors in Japan are not quiet, and they are continually polluting millions of gallons of water.

According to Helen Caldicott there’s no end in sight while there was an end in sight in Chernobyl. She is predicting they’ll never be able to fix it then maybe that's why the Japanese government doesn't want to invite the international community to help because by keeping within their country and having harsh laws to imprison whistleblowers they can attempt to hide the truth?

[Scott]

I've actually read all of this thread, although I must admit I am not always looking for information, a lot of times I am looking for violations of the rules, so excuse my ignorance, but I thought the Japanese had agreed to international help with this? Correct or not?

[midas]

I've actually read all of this thread, although I must admit I am not always looking for information, a lot of times I am looking for violations of the rules, so excuse my ignorance, but I thought the Japanese had agreed to international help with this? Correct or not?

Yes you are correct Scott that the Japanese government did make this announcement not so long ago but there are mixed signals.

It is confusing because you still read comments from nuclear experts such as Igor Ostretsov who said just recently " I can’t make out just why the Japanese are reluctant to take strong measures. Japan is clearly unable to cope with the situation on its own, so what’s needed is an international emergency effort."

And if the Japanese government was really serious about inviting international help, I would have thought that an independent international body of experts should have been placed in charge instead of TEPCO still making all the key decisions? Its TEPCO that will still be attempting what everyone is describing as an incredibly dangerous exercise in November when they start removing the spent fuel rods and yet with all the mistakes this company has made and cover-up so far ( including lying to the Japan Govt ), it is very questionable whether they should be trusted to do this without international participation and that just doesn't seem to be happening?

TEPCO seems to have an unbelievable ( and in some ways unhealthy ) influence in this matter.

http://voiceofrussia.com/2013_10_19/Fukushima-situation-calls-for-international-emergency-work-expert-0809/

[Scott]

Thanks.

[midas]

Thanks.

In fact, rather than more international participation this intriguing report today from Reuters suggests things there are becoming even more clandestine rather than transparent

Out of work, Hayashi found a second job at Fukushima, this time building a concrete base for tanks to hold spent fuel rods. His new employer skimmed almost a third of his wages - about $1,500 a month - and paid him the rest in cash in brown paper envelopes, he says. Reuters reviewed documents related to Hayashi's complaint, including pay envelopes and bank statements.

He was told he would have to wear an oxygen tank and a double-layer protective suit. Even then, his handlers told him, the radiation would be so high it could burn through his annual exposure limit in just under an hour.

"I felt cheated and entrapped," Hayashi said. "I had not agreed to any of this."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/25/us-fukushima-workers-specialreport-idUSBRE99O04320131025

[MJP]

Japan Fukushima tsunami alert after Pacific earthquake

Japan has issued a tsunami advisory for the Fukushima area - where the crippled nuclear plant is located - after a powerful quake in the Pacific Ocean.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24677578

[MJP]

Small tsunami reaches Japan after earthquake

A small tsunami triggered by a quake has hit Japan's eastern coast - where the crippled Fukushima nuclear plant is located - but no damage is reported.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24677578

[Scott]

I think they need to get moving on doing something to end this huge disaster from becoming a disaster of epic proportions -- if it isn't already.

[Gulfsailor]

I think they need to get moving on doing something to end this huge disaster from becoming a disaster of epic proportions -- if it isn't already.

I don't think they can do too much at this stage. Basically they are hoping things will stabilise by itself over time, so they can start actual decommissioning work in about 50 or 100 years when on-site radiation levels have fallen to a level where people and machinery actually can spend some time in there cleaning up this mess.

[Scott]

The problem is how many damaging earthquakes and tsunamis are likely to occur in that 50 - 100 year period of time? Especially, if there isn't regular maintenance to the structures.

[boomerangutang]

I wonder if Thailand's EGAT is paying attention to the Fukushima problems. According to EGAT's official web page, they still intend to get at least two nuclear reactors (down from 5, earlier) built in Thailand in the near future. Of course, they can respond with "That's elsewhere. Here in Thailand, there won't be any problems. Trust us."

[midas]

I think they need to get moving on doing something to end this huge disaster from becoming an disaster of epic proportions -- if it isn't already.

They will be starting at the end of next week… ………. but I'm not looking forward to it……………………….

Risky repair of Fukushima could spill 15,000x radiation of Hiroshima, create 85 Chernobyls

Does the planned November 2013 removal of the spent fuel rods stored at Fukushima’s heavily damaged Reactor 4 need a global intervention, or should TEPCO (Tokyo Electric Power Co., a for-profit company) be allowed to go it alone?

So far, the Japanese government is allowing TEPCO to handle it. Why should you care?

This is the problem today.

There are about 1300 fuel rods stored in that room, packed together vertically in racks. Think of a pack of cigarettes standing upright with the top of the pack removed. Normally, the movement of fuel rods is done by a computer-driven machine that reaches into the room from above and removes or replaces a fuel rod by drawing it upward or lowering it downward.

The machine knows to the millimeter where each fuel rod is located. Also, the rods are undamaged — perfectly straight.

The problem is that this pack of cigarettes is crumpled, and the process must done manually. Therefore, the likelihood that some of the fuel rods will break is high. If that happens and fuel rods are exposed to the air — BOOM.

http://americablog.com/2013/09/risky-repair-fukushima-spill-15000x-radiation-hiroshima-85x-chernobyl.html

[webfact]

Magnitude-7.1 hits north-eastern Japan, tsunami observed

Tokyo - A magnitude-7.1 earthquake struck early Saturday off the coast of north-eastern Japan, prompting authorities to urge residents to evacuate prefectures and issue a tsunami warning.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/677279-magnitude-71-hits-north-eastern-japan-tsunami-observed/

[MJP]

I think they need to get moving on doing something to end this huge disaster from becoming an disaster of epic proportions -- if it isn't already.

They will be starting at the end of next week… ………. but I'm not looking forward to it……………………….

Risky repair of Fukushima could spill 15,000x radiation of Hiroshima, create 85 Chernobyls

Does the planned November 2013 removal of the spent fuel rods stored at Fukushima’s heavily damaged Reactor 4 need a global intervention, or should TEPCO (Tokyo Electric Power Co., a for-profit company) be allowed to go it alone?

So far, the Japanese government is allowing TEPCO to handle it. Why should you care?

This is the problem today.

There are about 1300 fuel rods stored in that room, packed together vertically in racks. Think of a pack of cigarettes standing upright with the top of the pack removed. Normally, the movement of fuel rods is done by a computer-driven machine that reaches into the room from above and removes or replaces a fuel rod by drawing it upward or lowering it downward.

The machine knows to the millimeter where each fuel rod is located. Also, the rods are undamaged — perfectly straight.

The problem is that this pack of cigarettes is crumpled, and the process must done manually. Therefore, the likelihood that some of the fuel rods will break is high. If that happens and fuel rods are exposed to the air — BOOM.

http://americablog.com/2013/09/risky-repair-fukushima-spill-15000x-radiation-hiroshima-85x-chernobyl.html

Chernobyl was a single release event from a point source that was quickly controlled.

Fukushima is an ongoing point source that looks to me pretty much uncontrolled.

[midas]

The gist of the problem with Fukushima is that there are 3 reactors in meltdown mode that cannot be stopped.

They will continue until they consume all the uranium in place.

For the time being they are just pumping saltwater into the reactors to prevent them from exploding.

That -radioactive- water is then stored in huge tank farms or quietly released into the pacific.

Like I said...unless the reactors are 'sealed' or something, the problem will continue for years.

...but even if embedded in concrete,the meltdown will continue and the radioactivity will find its way in uderground aquifers and so on...

So potentially huge amounts of contaminated water pouring into the Pacific ocean over a prolonged period of time................

I wonder what effect this could have not only on the genetics of ocean life but also the behaviour of predators such as the sharks for example?

there have been studies recently of dog behaviour in Fukushima town and there has been a huge spike in dogs biting 70% to upper body of humans and what is really eerie is

some even attacked without aggression.

[Scott]

This just came on-line in the world news:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/677279-magnitude-71-hits-north-eastern-japan-tsunami-observed/#entry6965416

A 7.1 Earthquake. Will it have any effect on the nuclear power plants?

[midas]

This just came on-line in the world news:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/677279-magnitude-71-hits-north-eastern-japan-tsunami-observed/#entry6965416

A 7.1 Earthquake. Will it have any effect on the nuclear power plants?

According to Reuters, TEPCO said no…………. but how many times have we heard that before only to find later things were different?

A spokesman at Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO), operator of Fukushima, said some workers had been ordered to evacuate to higher ground after the quake, but that there was no damage or change in readings at radiation monitoring posts around the plant.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/25/us-japan-quake-idUSBRE99O0T820131025

[midas]

The gist of the problem with Fukushima is that there are 3 reactors in meltdown mode that cannot be stopped.

They will continue until they consume all the uranium in place.

For the time being they are just pumping saltwater into the reactors to prevent them from exploding.

That -radioactive- water is then stored in huge tank farms or quietly released into the pacific.

Like I said...unless the reactors are 'sealed' or something, the problem will continue for years.

...but even if embedded in concrete,the meltdown will continue and the radioactivity will find its way in uderground aquifers and so on...

" the problem will continue for years. " but counted in terms of DECADES

[boomerangutang]

Therefore, the likelihood that some of the fuel rods will break is high. If that happens and fuel rods are exposed to the air BOOM.

Fuel rods also need to be kept in refrigerated water. If not, they begin spontaneous fission and boil the water off. In either case, such a problem won't be a 'boom' but rather a sizzling melt-down process. Result: dirty bomb - with clouds of radiation going whichever way the wind blows at the time. Am not sure whether the clouds would be clear or gray or..... what color. Probably colorless.

My take on radiation, as it affects living organisms, is it zaps (speeds up) all molecules, therefore messes up organisms from a cellular level. It also affects reproductive cells, like sperm and eggs. Nothing good comes from it. I saw a photo of a Russian baby being held by a nurse, close to her chest. The baby had a growth coming out the side of his/her head, as large as the baby's head, with wisps of baby hair.

[midas]

Fukushima nuclear plant operators prepare for dangerous procedure

Hundreds of radioactive rods must be removed at Fukushima without exposing them to air

Tepco was taking every measure to ensure safety, he said.

That promise cuts little ice with Aileen Mioko Smith, of Kyoto-based Green Action Japan, who points out that Tepco has presided over a catalogue of errors, miscalculations and failures since the disaster.

And that is without looking into the shoddy safety and operational procedures at the plant before March 2011.

"They're incompetent," she said. "For example, how could they not realise that a typhoon was going to bring rain that was going to flood the areas around the storage tanks for radioactive water? A child could have comprehended that."

Mioko Smith has a number of fears about the recovery process, the biggest of which is that another major earthquake brings down the building or causes the storage pool to fall, exposing the rods to the air and triggering a release of radiation that could be catastrophic and extremely difficult to remedy.

http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1340687/fukushima-nuclear-plant-operators-prepare-dangerous-procedure

[midas]

Therefore, the likelihood that some of the fuel rods will break is high. If that happens and fuel rods are exposed to the air BOOM.

Fuel rods also need to be kept in refrigerated water. If not, they begin spontaneous fission and boil the water off. In either case, such a problem won't be a 'boom' but rather a sizzling melt-down process. Result: dirty bomb - with clouds of radiation going whichever way the wind blows at the time. Am not sure whether the clouds would be clear or gray or..... what color. Probably colorless.

My take on radiation, as it affects living organisms, is it zaps (speeds up) all molecules, therefore messes up organisms from a cellular level. It also affects reproductive cells, like sperm and eggs. Nothing good comes from it. I saw a photo of a Russian baby being held by a nurse, close to her chest. The baby had a growth coming out the side of his/her head, as large as the baby's head, with wisps of baby hair.

Are you familiar with the procedure which has to be undertaken?

How do they remove them without exposing them to air, even for a short time?

And why do they need to take this risk when there is already this announcement-

Fukushima documents discuss “fuel that is severely damaged” inside cooling pool — Illustrations of “deformed or leaking fuels”

So we know in advance the probability of some kind of " event " is likely to be more than 50% ?

wouldn't they be better to leave them there if they already know they are severely damaged?

[atsiii]

Therefore, the likelihood that some of the fuel rods will break is high. If that happens and fuel rods are exposed to the air BOOM.

Fuel rods also need to be kept in refrigerated water. If not, they begin spontaneous fission and boil the water off. In either case, such a problem won't be a 'boom' but rather a sizzling melt-down process. Result: dirty bomb - with clouds of radiation going whichever way the wind blows at the time. Am not sure whether the clouds would be clear or gray or..... what color. Probably colorless.

My take on radiation, as it affects living organisms, is it zaps (speeds up) all molecules, therefore messes up organisms from a cellular level. It also affects reproductive cells, like sperm and eggs. Nothing good comes from it. I saw a photo of a Russian baby being held by a nurse, close to her chest. The baby had a growth coming out the side of his/her head, as large as the baby's head, with wisps of baby hair.

Are you familiar with the procedure which has to be undertaken?

How do they remove them without exposing them to air, even for a short time?

And why do they need to take this risk when there is already this announcement-

Fukushima documents discuss “fuel that is severely damaged” inside cooling pool — Illustrations of “deformed or leaking fuels”

So we know in advance the probability of some kind of " event " is likely to be more than 50% ?

wouldn't they be better to leave them there if they already know they are severely damaged?

The issues are even more challenging than you think. They normally add/remove fuel rods in the cooling pool with computer controlled cranes that have the location of each rod in memory. All of these cranes and computers were destroyed in the explosions. So this effort will be completely MANUAL!

They must remove the fuel rods because the pool itself is severely compromised and leaning to one side, and could literally fall over: dumping some 1500 fuel rods out onto the ground where they would start burning and going critical, releasing everything to the atmosphere--since there would be absolutely no containment.

Thus, they must try to remove the rods--manually; which is perilous at best. They must do it successfully some 1300 or 1400 times, with no mistake or accident. And while this is being done, over a one to two year period, mother nature must cooperate completely--which she has not done to date.

So, is this necessary? Unfortunately, yes. Could the situation be more grave? No.

[SjaakNL2013]

About bombs, nuclear plants and fuel rods.

Lets go back in time.

The USA Bomber Enola Gay dropped Little Boy on Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, Little Boy was a uranium fueled bomb about 10 feet long and just over two feet across, that held 140 pounds of uranium and weighed nearly 10,000 pounds.

Three days later Fat Man was dropped on the city of Nagasaki on August 9, 1945. Holding 14 pounds of plutonium

Both bombs exploded above the ground, resp 2000 and 1650 feet.

From Little Boy only 2 pounds of uranium did go in state of fusion releasing 17 kilotons of explosive force

Also by Fat Man only 2 pounds of plutonium started the fusion but released 21 kilotons of explosive force.

Now to Chernobyl, reactor 4, the one that exploded contained about 180 ton of nuclear material, mainly build up from caesium-137, strontium-90 and iodine-131.

Because the bombs exploded in the air the spread area much wider then by the nuclear power plant, the used material a less radioactive level and the amount of material was compared to Chernobyl peanuts.

There are many types of reactors, all with their pro's and contras. Normal spoken the nuclear fuel rods stay in position and the graphite temper rods are moveable between the fuel rods. By lowering the graphite between the fuel rods the reaction get tempered through the graphite. If tempered the tempreture go down inside the reactor.

If fuel rods come outside the inner reaction area then the cooling will stop. Emergency cooling is needed like in Japan. Depends on the reactor how many inner scales their are before it will burn his way to the outer scale. If it leave the outer scale, most time meters of concrete thick, no cooling is anymore possible and and heat will speed up the reaction in a vicious circle.till explosion occurs.

The contaminated sea area comes from leaks in the emergency cooling. Normal the cool fluid stay in a closed circuit but in Japan the normal cooling stopped, overheating burn through an inner scale. Cool water is now pumped in and after usage stored in storage tanks. I suspect this tanks, pipes and protective measurements are also damaged what make it leak in the ground/sea.

[midas]

About bombs, nuclear plants and fuel rods.

Lets go back in time.

The USA Bomber Enola Gay dropped Little Boy on Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, Little Boy was a uranium fueled bomb about 10 feet long and just over two feet across, that held 140 pounds of uranium and weighed nearly 10,000 pounds.

Three days later Fat Man was dropped on the city of Nagasaki on August 9, 1945. Holding 14 pounds of plutonium

Both bombs exploded above the ground, resp 2000 and 1650 feet.

From Little Boy only 2 pounds of uranium did go in state of fusion releasing 17 kilotons of explosive force

Also by Fat Man only 2 pounds of plutonium started the fusion but released 21 kilotons of explosive force.

Now to Chernobyl, reactor 4, the one that exploded contained about 180 ton of nuclear material, mainly build up from caesium-137, strontium-90 and iodine-131.

Because the bombs exploded in the air the spread area much wider then by the nuclear power plant, the used material a less radioactive level and the amount of material was compared to Chernobyl peanuts.

There are many types of reactors, all with their pro's and contras. Normal spoken the nuclear fuel rods stay in position and the graphite temper rods are moveable between the fuel rods. By lowering the graphite between the fuel rods the reaction get tempered through the graphite. If tempered the tempreture go down inside the reactor.

If fuel rods come outside the inner reaction area then the cooling will stop. Emergency cooling is needed like in Japan. Depends on the reactor how many inner scales their are before it will burn his way to the outer scale. If it leave the outer scale, most time meters of concrete thick, no cooling is anymore possible and and heat will speed up the reaction in a vicious circle.till explosion occurs.

The contaminated sea area comes from leaks in the emergency cooling. Normal the cool fluid stay in a closed circuit but in Japan the normal cooling stopped, overheating burn through an inner scale. Cool water is now pumped in and after usage stored in storage tanks. I suspect this tanks, pipes and protective measurements are also damaged what make it leak in the ground/sea.

Thank you for that! You certainly know your history about nuclear bombs.

So, do you agree with the approximate calculations that were provided in the article in post number 105 where the article said an accident could be the equivalent of 15,000x radiation of Hiroshima or 85 Chernobyls?

[midas]

Therefore, the likelihood that some of the fuel rods will break is high. If that happens and fuel rods are exposed to the air BOOM.

Fuel rods also need to be kept in refrigerated water. If not, they begin spontaneous fission and boil the water off. In either case, such a problem won't be a 'boom' but rather a sizzling melt-down process. Result: dirty bomb - with clouds of radiation going whichever way the wind blows at the time. Am not sure whether the clouds would be clear or gray or..... what color. Probably colorless.

My take on radiation, as it affects living organisms, is it zaps (speeds up) all molecules, therefore messes up organisms from a cellular level. It also affects reproductive cells, like sperm and eggs. Nothing good comes from it. I saw a photo of a Russian baby being held by a nurse, close to her chest. The baby had a growth coming out the side of his/her head, as large as the baby's head, with wisps of baby hair.

Are you familiar with the procedure which has to be undertaken?

How do they remove them without exposing them to air, even for a short time?

And why do they need to take this risk when there is already this announcement-

Fukushima documents discuss “fuel that is severely damaged” inside cooling pool — Illustrations of “deformed or leaking fuels”

So we know in advance the probability of some kind of " event " is likely to be more than 50% ?

wouldn't they be better to leave them there if they already know they are severely damaged?

The issues are even more challenging than you think. They normally add/remove fuel rods in the cooling pool with computer controlled cranes that have the location of each rod in memory. All of these cranes and computers were destroyed in the explosions. So this effort will be completely MANUAL!

They must remove the fuel rods because the pool itself is severely compromised and leaning to one side, and could literally fall over: dumping some 1500 fuel rods out onto the ground where they would start burning and going critical, releasing everything to the atmosphere--since there would be absolutely no containment.

Thus, they must try to remove the rods--manually; which is perilous at best. They must do it successfully some 1300 or 1400 times, with no mistake or accident. And while this is being done, over a one to two year period, mother nature must cooperate completely--which she has not done to date.

So, is this necessary? Unfortunately, yes. Could the situation be more grave? No.

I've said in earlier posts and I say again the fact that TEPCO is being allowed to run this after their abysmal record is inexplicable and surely must be criminally negligent in some ways on the part of the Japanese government in terms of their responsibility to the international community. I simply don't understand how this company can exert so much power over the government of Japan. It just doesn't make sense

[MJP]

Where's the IAEA in all this?

This could well turn out to be a global public health issue and I would have thought the IAEA would be all over this, if not already.

[midas]

Where's the IAEA in all this?

This could well turn out to be a global public health issue and I would have thought the IAEA would be all over this, if not already.

Exactly!

In August the IAEA urged Japan to explain more clearly what is happening at Fukushima and avoid sending "confusing messages" about the disaster.

http://phys.org/news/2013-08-japan-messages-fukushima-iaea.html

In an article I read yesterday it explained TEPCO and the Japanese government to some extent is relying on semantics or differences in Japanese terminology when it is translated into English ti justify its behaviour ( or lack thereof ). Can you believe this ?

For example in Japanese the words to describe " open ocean " is apparently different from the English interpretation and this is how they are getting away with denying that contaminated water is dangerously affecting the Pacific Ocean.

We are talking about long-term damage to a huge part of the northern hemisphere ecological system and the Japanese want to play with words.

It's criminal!