Thais And Books

[remmy]

thais dont read anything but comics...

[samran]

It may or may not be relevant as to why Thai's read less than 'average'. But, where I used to work, by bosses preferred memo's be written to them in English over Thai. They said that the language was less convoluted and more to the point.

Admittedly we are talking about the burecratic form of Thai (phasa ratchakarn) v.s. plain english, but reading certain forms of Thai (Eg news papers, even some magazines) there seems to be a level of 'clunkiness' to the language used, which can take some of the enjoyment out if the reading process.

[Dara]

My observation is that these days most Thais do not allow themselves the time to immerse in reading unless they are older and less mobile. There seems to always be something to do or to see and the time spent winding down is more for watching TV or talking to other people. I still see people reading newspapers and, as mentioned in earlier posts, magazines, quite a bit, however.

One thing that you have to realize, however, is that in periodicals that are seen as "gossip" or "women" magazines, they usually include serial fictions and/or series of areticles that have followers at all levels. A good bit of Thai fictions and non-fictions are usally published in magazines or newspapers before coming out as whole books. This has been a long tradition and seems to be going strong still.

I know it is hard to make a generalization, but based on my own experiences, I used to be very frustrated because my Thai friends would not be all that well informed about what's going on in the world. Nowadays, thanks to TV, the Internet and other multimedia, they are doing better. I still have only a handful of Thai friends who are avid readers.

I always enjoy going into Thai bookstores as well as the book fairs. Book fairs are usually well attended and I see a fair number of people dragging around a big bag of books and other publications that they buy at a bargain price, so I know there are plenty of readers out there. I also agree with K'SaoThai that the Thai Internet book/literature forums are well patronized and a lot of people do read a range of types of books.

My conclusion on Thai and reading is that it depends on who you are around and where....

[thaibebop]

My wife only reads fashion mags, and she pretty much just reads the headers. She really hates my small library, it doesn't look good.

[buadhai]

I suppose I should have added that Ms. B. is Thai-Chinese. Perhaps that makes a difference. We don't watch much TV and, since neither of us works we have plenty of time for the quiet solitude that reading has to offer. I know that not many Thai people enjoy this sort of luxury. And, we're lucky that book purchases don't put much of a dent in our budget.

As for world literature translated into Thai, check out the "Best of the World" series. Ms. B. finds these at B2S and Se Ed.

[johnh101]

Last time I checked the literacy rate in Thailand was one of the highest in the world...I think it was something like 95% for those over 15.

I cannot believe that figure but then again what do they term as literate....being able to read and write their own name ?

IMO it would be more like 75%.

[Sporting Dog]

I wouldn't believe the 95% figure - after all 100% of government matayom students will be passing school this year.

From what I see, thais don't read very much - 50% of my students read nothing, 45% will read comics occasionally and a few will read things more taxing.

When I lived in BKK and used the BTS in the morning and afternoon it was rare to see anyone reading - occasionally there'd be someone reading a newsppaper, but again usually adults reading comics.

The price of books must be an issue for a lot of thais but I just don't think reading is ingrained into the kids when they are at school. Also reading entails using your imagination to 'picture' things - and most aren't that imaginative. (just try getting thai kids to think about subjective things!!)

Generalisations sure - but where are all the libraries, bookshops etc

[BKK90210]

GOOD JOB GUYS and thanks for all your insight opinions.

If nothing coming from this topic, at least at the current rate between viewers VS replies....we're up to 8%!....beating the rating of Dowry and Income gap topic!

Cheeeeerr

[OldAsiaHand]

My wife's view is that, as a generalization, Thais don't read much because they don't see anything to be gained from it. My own observation is that's a generalization that can be applied Asia-wide with considerable accuracy.

Paul Theroux never tires of telling the story that, years ago when he was teaching at the National University in Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew announced that he had decided it was a waste of resources for Singaporean schools to teach literature since it was 'of no practical value.' Theroux's response to that is: 'And this from a man who plays golf.'

[Maigo6]

thais dont read anything but comics...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You speak for the whole nation, or just the few that you know?

[h90]

my wife, thai is permanently killing our staff and telling them that they are idiots, because they studied at university and spell basically every thai word wrong and are unable to write one sentence without mistake.

seeing them reading my english newspaper, asking if they want to improve their english, got the answer "it does not make a big difference, because if english or thai, they just look the pictures".

on the other hand, our cleaning woman is reading newspaper (she needs ages) reads every page of it and is interested in politics. she has only minimal education.

I have the impression, but it might be wrong because the sample is too small that the southern people are better in reading and writing than the rest.

I'm not talking about illiterated thais.  These are people who had at at least a high school or university degree.  Books - I mean other than text books. 

If the thai culture is to discourage reading anything of substance why most thai parents, as I see, did spend lots of time searching for the right school and paid lots of money for the school.  Seem to me by obsevation,  like 1/3 of the population are working, another 1/3 are going to school, and the rest 1/3 - cooking for those who are either working or going to school. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Pudgimelon]

Is it just me?....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Geesh, yet another "Is it just me or are all Thais less-intellegent/less-civilized/less-whatever than the folks back home?" thread.

They should create a separate forum for these kinds of posts so that all the people who want to slam on Thailand and its people can comiserate together.

Is it just me or do many farang have a bad habit of making broad generalizations about Thais based on the few dozen people they happen to know?

[camerata]

Last time I checked the literacy rate in Thailand was one of the highest in the world...I think it was something like 95% for those over 15.

I cannot believe that figure but then again what do they term as literate....being able to read and write their own name ?

IMO it would be more like 75%.

It's well known that Thailand gets this high figure by excluding all the ethnic minorities (hilltribes etc) who have been here for generations but don't have an official Thai citizen's ID card.

As for Thais reading, I think [a] Thai schools don't encourage the pursuit of knowledge and reading alone isn't very sanook. Middle class Thais send their kids to international schools partly so that they will learn how to learn instead of just expecting knowledge to be handed to them by ajarns and phuyai.

Edited December 9, 2005 by camerata

[OldAsiaHand]

Is it just me?....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is it just me or do many farang have a bad habit of making broad generalizations about Thais based on the few dozen people they happen to know?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dunno....

Is it just me, or do a lot of other farang make FAVORABLE generalizations about Thais based on the few people they happen to know and then try to pass themselves off as more culturally enlightened than the rest of us?

[richb2004]

Is it just me?....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is it just me or do many farang have a bad habit of making broad generalizations about Thais based on the few dozen people they happen to know?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dunno....

Is it just me, or do a lot of other farang make FAVORABLE generalizations about Thais based on the few people they happen to know and then try to pass themselves off as more culturally enlightened than the rest of us?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said. We are all just horrible bigots.

[sbk]

Actually, whilst on the subject, I wanted to get her some decent books, some modern classics but they need to be in Thai language.

She reads English ok, but give her an English language classic book and suddenly its a whole new world of words and I don't wanna be disturbed from my hammock sleep with 'whats this mean? whats that mean?" all day.

So where can I find them?  I'm thinking, Orwell, Kerouc etc.  Any chance to find them in Thai language, or something similar in Bangkok?

Amarin.com has a very extensive website with lots of books, reasonable prices and free shipping. Give them a shot.

[Bryan in Isaan]

Let me throw out another generaliz -- oops, I mean theory. Here in the Isaan, most village kids speak Isaan or Putai up until they are school age, if thats what their parents speak. The Putai kids will then start speaking Isaan and everyone will have to learn central Thai in elementary school, as a second language. I wonder if the Isaan kids are less interested in reading because books are written in central Thai, not their first language.

Bryan

[sbk]

For those of us not living in a large city ask yourself one question: How many

Thai language bookstores have you seen?

We have none, the only one on Koh Samui I know about it is a tiny hole in the wall Se-Ed with a very limited selection and then a few in Surat Thani. Well, since that is a 3 1/2 hr trip away I doubt very many people will be heading to the mainland just for a few books.

Access is another major problem for people out in the rural areas.

[Bryan in Isaan]

For those of us not living in a large city ask yourself one question: How many

Thai language bookstores have you seen?

We have none, the only one on Koh Samui I know about it is a tiny hole in the wall Se-Ed with a very limited selection and then a few in Surat Thani. Well, since that is a 3 1/2 hr trip away I doubt very many people will be heading to the mainland just for a few books.

Access is another major problem for people out in the rural areas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True. In the area around Kalasin I don't recall seeing any bookstores except one or two in the provincial capitals. Also, the school libraries, especially in the villages, are pathetic. And I have heard that in the high schools in the Amphurs have libraries but the hours are so short, effectively the students don't have access to them either.

To the credit of the school system, I do see some effort to build and expand libraries. There was also a small public library built in our Amphur in the last few years. I don't think the books get worn out very fast, but these are at least steps in the right direction. This might even be an area where the foreigners might be able to help, by having (foreign language) books sent from their home country. Last time we visited the USA we shipped ourselves some books for about $1/pound.

Bryan

Edited December 9, 2005 by Bryan in Isaan

[plachon]

I think that MOST Thais really don't have enough dispable income to be able to easily afford books. When my wife was a small girl they didn't even have electricity at her village and she says that was typical for all the villages around here. So, do you imagine that her mother or father read for recreation? HA...they were kept busy keeping rice in the bowl and the bamboo construction house upright. I think that many people who read don't realize what a luxury it is to be able to indulge in this habit.

Hey Chownah, I hear what you're saying, but don't think lack of dosh or poverty is at the heart of why most Thais aren't that interested in reading. It goes much deeper than that, perhaps mixed up in local cultural mores, parental encouragement (or lack of it) and of course, the education system. My wife loves to read and she comes from a poor rural background, but we both know far more wealthy, urban and educated Thais, who very rarely, if ever read a book. My wife's parents were basically illiterate and couldn't give a ###### if she ever read a book, and thought she was wasting time if she wanted to go to the library, but were keen that she should get enough education to become a teacher. However, they didn't perceive liking reading books as a pre-requisite to being a teacher, but passing exams and acting like a karachagan was.

Anyway, for some strange unknown reason, my wife did nuture a love of books, and didn't end up a karachagan teacher (much to her parents chagrin), but ended up marrying a farang instead and spends half her days reading. But I digress from the original point.........which is............ah yes, that even given lots of money, most Thais would not end up reading books, as love of them is not instilled in them at an early age in their lives. Even University profs, with oodles of qualifications and honours, often don't have a novel in the house, but spend all their free time reading "nang seu wichagan" or academic books. This is not lack of money or opportunity, but lack of realisation in the fountains of wisdom and entertainment that books can be, if carefully chosen. Or dare I say it, a lack perhaps of education?

[plachon]

Let me throw out another generaliz -- oops, I mean theory.  Here in the Isaan, most village kids speak Isaan or Putai up until they are school age, if thats what their parents speak.  The Putai kids will then start speaking Isaan and everyone will have to learn central Thai in elementary school, as a second language.  I wonder if the Isaan kids are less interested in reading because books are written in central Thai, not their first language.

Bryan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quite true Bryan, but unfortunately, they are not even allowed to be taught in their first language at school - Lao not "Isaan", Khmer, Phu Thai or whatever - due to archaic nationalistic rules. So there's fat chance being able to read books in Lao. But songs, and "morlam" in particular, breaks the mold and allows free expression in the vernacular, hence its widespread popularity and vibrancy. It talks to the people in their own tongue, something which books have never been able to do. Isaan is basically like Wales was in the first half of 20th century, when Welsh language was banned from being taught in schools. However, there are already some University courses teaching Lao and there is a strong resurgence in regional awareness, so I can see in a decade or two Lao being taught in secondary schools as an option and way in the future being taught in primary schools for the first time, just like has happened in Wales. But whether one will ever be able to withdraw money from an ATM in Lao, I am not so sure.

Actually, around Nong Khai and other border towns, one sees signs and adverts now in Lao script, so perhaps the turnaround may be not so far off from occurring. However, it is almost certain that all the other minority languages in Isaan, like Phu Thai, Yaw, So, Kui, and Galeung, will die out in the next generation, and more is the pity.

[socalbro]

When a DVD copy of a feature film still in the theaters is 80-100 Baht, why would a Thai making 6,000 Baht a month or so spend 200-300 Baht on a book they have no way of knowing if its good or not?

I have not seen any libraries around, though I just may not have noticed. That might be a good place to start. But then again why would this government want their population to expand their minds with literature.

It would be like asking for trouble if the majority of the citizens understood the nature of this society and the oppression most live with and the cause and effect of the corruption ingraned here.

A well read population expects more from its leaders. They expect more from their lives and hard work.

Books are obviously not the only concern these days as the media in both radio and TV are finding out.

Hopefully these are not signs of things to come as it will only backfire in the face of those trying to supress the freedom of information.

[bina]

just because we (as western societies) are literate and look for books, some (many) societies are oral traditional in that reading is for practical matters like newspapers etc but other equally important matters (stories, ceremonies etc) are oral... thai seem to remember everything w/o writing it down... something that we seem to have problems with (our memory cells seem to have withered dut to lack of use)... morlum as plachon says, etc..... also, books are for those with time on their hands... a luxury and someone who is tired from physical work (as i can say about me also) finds it less difficult to veg out with a movie or music than read (and i am a voracious reader) but in the high season after working in the sun for a full day i find it very hard to read without nodding off...

what is wrong with oral books?? in fact, i think we have the opposite problem, if its not written down than it isnt real, or accepted or kept to.. as in an agreement....

[BKK90210]

I have not seen any libraries around, though I just may not have noticed. That might be a good place to start. But then again why would this government want their population to expand their minds with literature.

It would be like asking for trouble if the majority of the citizens understood the nature of this society and the oppression most live with and the cause and effect of the corruption ingraned here.

A well read population expects more from its leaders. They expect more from their lives and hard work.

Books are obviously not the only concern these days as the media in both radio and TV are finding out.

Hopefully these are not signs of things to come as it will only backfire in the face of those trying to supress the freedom of information

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"SOCALBRO"

Well said!....sadly but true!....Thanks for your insight analysis....

We just can't judge the book by its cover.....I guess I should be looking at the underlining forces/reasons behind the behavioral of the collective group

Good discussion EVERYONE!.....KEEP UP!!!!

Edited December 9, 2005 by BKK90210

[Johpa]

It's well known that Thailand gets this high figure by excluding all the ethnic minorities (hilltribes etc) who have been here for generations but don't have an official Thai citizen's ID card.

Actually there has been a fairly successful literacy program up in the hills in the minority areas run by the Social Welfare department. It was started back in the 1970s and originally funded by of all people the CIA as a means to create a Thai sense of identity amongst the minority groups as a response to the actions of then communist oriented groups acting in the area. Based upon the Head Start program in the US, pre-schools were set up in the hilltribe villages to introduce the minority kids to the Thai language so that they would be able to better mainstream into the Thai school system at the age of 5. They even hired a few minorities, including the now Ms. Johmo, to teach at these pre-schools and also hired minorities to become teachers in the village elementary schools located in the larger hill tribe villages. Not all hilltribe villages were able to be included in this program, but it was a very successful program as far as orienting the minorities away from identifying with the communists and orienting the future generations with the Buddhist nation. You might be surprised at the extent of literacy amongst the hill folks under the age of 30.

Of course being literate has no correlation to reading books. Most Thais I know read few books and most Americans I know read just as few few books, especially the younger generations who have become, what Todd Oppenheimer describes in his aptly titled book, The Flickering Minds. So to those who might castigate the Thais for not being enthusiastic book readers, y’all better look in the mirror at your own folks first. And besides, look at the trash “best seller” books one sees dominating the used English bookstores in Thailand.

[thaibebop]

thais dont read anything but comics...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what is wrong with comics? Don't make me send the gent in my avatar to see you.

Is it just me?....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Geesh, yet another "Is it just me or are all Thais less-intellegent/less-civilized/less-whatever than the folks back home?" thread.

They should create a separate forum for these kinds of posts so that all the people who want to slam on Thailand and its people can comiserate together.

Is it just me or do many farang have a bad habit of making broad generalizations about Thais based on the few dozen people they happen to know?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Geesh, another opinionated poster who knows all and is incapable of making generalizations. Yes, we whites are evil sick bastards who just can't help looking down on everybody.

Ya, know my wife(Thai) thought that all blacks in the US wore clothes that were too big for them, couldn't speak english, carried weapons, etc. Well, she got here and found out that wasn't true, but back in Thailand all she ever saw of Black Americans were rap videos and Hollywood movies. So, how horrible of a person is she for over generalizing? Or are you sure only whites can do this?

A person who asks a question is seeking knowledge. Perhaps it would be better if instead of cutting them down for asking a question you could supply them with some of your knowledge. Wouldn't that be better than making the generalization that they mean to be insulting and thus are too stupid to learn something new?

[BKK90210]

thais dont read anything but comics...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what is wrong with comics? Don't make me send the gent in my avatar to see you.

Is it just me?....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Geesh, yet another "Is it just me or are all Thais less-intellegent/less-civilized/less-whatever than the folks back home?" thread.

They should create a separate forum for these kinds of posts so that all the people who want to slam on Thailand and its people can comiserate together.

Is it just me or do many farang have a bad habit of making broad generalizations about Thais based on the few dozen people they happen to know?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Geesh, another opinionated poster who knows all and is incapable of making generalizations. Yes, we whites are evil sick bastards who just can't help looking down on everybody.

Ya, know my wife(Thai) thought that all blacks in the US wore clothes that were too big for them, couldn't speak english, carried weapons, etc. Well, she got here and found out that wasn't true, but back in Thailand all she ever saw of Black Americans were rap videos and Hollywood movies. So, how horrible of a person is she for over generalizing? Or are you sure only whites can do this?

A person who asks a question is seeking knowledge. Perhaps it would be better if instead of cutting them down for asking a question you could supply them with some of your knowledge. Wouldn't that be better than making the generalization that they mean to be insulting and thus are too stupid to learn something new?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Thanks buddy!! "THAIBEBOP" for your compassion and understanding....

I don't know why some are trying to bash me.....I think I will just keep you by my side from now on, I'm in need of a bodyguard. I didn't know this website can be mean and dangerous ......Can you be on a stand by?

[thaibebop]

thais dont read anything but comics...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what is wrong with comics? Don't make me send the gent in my avatar to see you.

Is it just me?....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Geesh, yet another "Is it just me or are all Thais less-intellegent/less-civilized/less-whatever than the folks back home?" thread.

They should create a separate forum for these kinds of posts so that all the people who want to slam on Thailand and its people can comiserate together.

Is it just me or do many farang have a bad habit of making broad generalizations about Thais based on the few dozen people they happen to know?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Geesh, another opinionated poster who knows all and is incapable of making generalizations. Yes, we whites are evil sick bastards who just can't help looking down on everybody.

Ya, know my wife(Thai) thought that all blacks in the US wore clothes that were too big for them, couldn't speak english, carried weapons, etc. Well, she got here and found out that wasn't true, but back in Thailand all she ever saw of Black Americans were rap videos and Hollywood movies. So, how horrible of a person is she for over generalizing? Or are you sure only whites can do this?

A person who asks a question is seeking knowledge. Perhaps it would be better if instead of cutting them down for asking a question you could supply them with some of your knowledge. Wouldn't that be better than making the generalization that they mean to be insulting and thus are too stupid to learn something new?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks buddy!! "THAIBEBOP" for your compassion and understanding....

No problem, always willing to help a fellow member out.

I don't know why some are trying to bash me.....I think I will just keep you by my side from now on, I'm in need of a bodyguard. I didn't know this website can be mean and dangerous ......Can you be on a stand by?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh gee, I don't know. Complain about over genernalizing then do it yourself and with such passion on the subject too.

People need to learn about other people, stupid questions will be asked. If this person was saying that all Thais can't or don't read, then I would agree with you. But they are asking. Should I jump my wife everytime she says "why do you guys do that?' As if every American is made in the same mold.

Edited December 10, 2005 by thaibebop

[bkkmadness]

Actually, whilst on the subject, I wanted to get her some decent books, some modern classics but they need to be in Thai language.

She reads English ok, but give her an English language classic book and suddenly its a whole new world of words and I don't wanna be disturbed from my hammock sleep with 'whats this mean? whats that mean?" all day.

So where can I find them?  I'm thinking, Orwell, Kerouc etc.  Any chance to find them in Thai language, or something similar in Bangkok?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amarin.com has a very extensive website with lots of books, reasonable prices and free shipping. Give them a shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cheers SBK, I'll have a look through the site.

[Bryan in Isaan]

just because we (as western societies) are literate and look for books, some (many) societies are oral traditional in that reading is for practical matters like newspapers etc  but other equally important matters (stories, ceremonies etc) are oral... thai seem to remember everything w/o writing it down... something that we seem to have problems with (our memory cells seem to have withered dut to lack of use)... morlum as plachon says, etc..... also, books are for those with time on their hands... a luxury and someone who is tired from physical work (as i can say about me also) finds it less difficult to veg out with a movie or music than read (and i am a voracious reader) but in the high season after working in the sun for a full day i find it very hard to read without nodding off...

what is wrong with oral books?? in fact, i think we have the opposite problem, if its not written down than it isnt real, or accepted or kept to.. as in an agreement....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bina: I think you might have hit on something here. I can attest to this as I am trying to learn Thai language. It doesn't stick at all unless I can read it and/or write/type it. From what I have seen, the Thai students who study English are just the opposite. They have games, sing songs, watch videos and thereby learn English, while they might not be quite as attached to their English textbooks.

Bryan