Thailand's Thaksin Prepares For War

[phiphidon]

To be sure an article from the NYT, 2009-04-11:

"Thailand Cancels Summit After Protests

A small group of demonstrators reached the section of the complex where leaders of Asean were eating lunch. Videos showed protesters there being stopped at gunpoint by commandos and dropping to their knees.

Arisman Pongruengrong, one of the protest leaders, said the goal was to force the resignation of Mr. Abhisit, who took office in December.

In a measure of the animosity between the government and its opponents, Mr. Arisman said he had instructed his followers to “catch” the prime minister. “When you see him, catch him and do whatever you like to him,” he said.

"

http://www.nytimes.c...sia/12thai.html

Though there is of course the not so small matter of Newins blue shirts, usually ignored by most folks but an ingredient in the chaos then and through the military connection maybe still to come. This will give you a taster http://asiancorrespo...d-the-military/

'a military connection still to come'? The article is from 2009-05-01. Mind you, k. Jatuporn and a few posters here have promised me a coup, so one of these days you might still be right

I was referring to the military trio member, the calm and collected, not a loose cannon at all, Gen Prayuth, as you well know. Edited February 23, 2012 by phiphidon

[whybother]

The voters voted in a majority, not a minority. A majority not needing coalitions to enact its program.

And you are correct. It will be analyzed in the future. A little over three years from now to be exact.

Seeing things the way I do, and expressing those points-of-view, is what political junkies do.

Perhaps some may concur with them.

Many don't and that is what political junkie dialogue is all about.

As opposed to it being a sad state of affairs, perhaps can be considered otherwise.

"The voters voted in a majority." Yep ... all 100% of them voted.

Unfortunately, only 48% voted for PTP. I'm sure not all of them were red shirt supporters. Maybe 80% of them were female though.

[rubl]

Though there is of course the not so small matter of Newins blue shirts, usually ignored by most folks but an ingredient in the chaos then and through the military connection maybe still to come. This will give you a taster http://asiancorrespo...d-the-military/

'a military connection still to come'? The article is from 2009-05-01. Mind you, k. Jatuporn and a few posters here have promised me a coup, so one of these days you might still be right

I was referring to the military trio member, the calm and collected, not a loose cannon at all, Gen Prayuth, as you well know.

Either your sentence has some logical flaw or I have missed something (which does happen). So, please be so kind as to explain the "blue shirts" <-> "ingredient in chaos" AND "through the mil. conn. maybe still to come"

[tlansford]

Thaksin has the people by his side.

Mark has the army by his side.

If there is a war, it will be like Mao against Chiang Kai Sak in China.

In the end, the people wins.

Will the red shirts be the red guard? Or will it be more like pol pot khmer rouge? Will Thailand be returned to an agrarian only country? Will there be a genocide of all the teachers, doctors, lawyers, govt workers, business owners, farangs? Should the farangs be leaving Thailand before the civil war starts?

Denigrating, besmirching, disparaging, slandering and villifying ones political Opposition seems such an odd exercise, when a vast majority of the countries' electorate gave them a landslide mandate, and will do so again next election.

Either those who are contemptuous are wrong, or those thousands of voters were wrong.

Very confusing and complicated.

Half the voters were quite wrong,

why they voted so grandly wrong will be analyzed into the future.

When they will realizes this was the case, is another open question.

It will happen someday in spite of the information control

and propaganda they are victims of in recent history to the present.

Seeing things wrong, or making sure OTHERS see things wrongly,

seems to be a job description for some on TVF, a sad state of affairs.

Misreading the warnings of history is another team sport. Some make sure

that, if possible, the signs of historical parallels are as obscured as possible.

Can't pull the wool over an informed populaces eyes, so keep them ill informed

if possible, and slap down those voices that might inform them properly and clearly.

Carry on.

"Seeing things wrong, or making sure OTHERS see things wrongly, seems to be a job description for some on TVF, a sad state of affairs."

these words ring true.

[OZEMADE]

blows

What happens when they win the next election ??

I agree they will win the next election and easily. I see where even the polls say she is going further ahead and is very popular with the people. Although a lot on here keep on bringing up thing that happened when she was not in power.

[Buchholz]

The violence you purport to describe before R'song did not happen.

Videos showing what happened in this world of an event that in your world, "did not happen"...

News Quote:

Red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana guaranteed no red-shirted people would create trouble for the PM Abhisit when he was in the Northeast, particularly in Udon Thani, which is the main base of the red-shirt movement under his leadership.

"The red shirts have good discipline and good democratic spirit."

UNQUOTE

I'm not sure that those who were assaulted or who had their possessions torched and looted and destroyed would necessarily ascribe to suspected terrorist out on bail Red Shirt Leader Kwanchai's description of his Udon Thani Red Shirts.

Anarchy

It's what the Red Shirts excel at.

.

[OzMick]

Animatic, I've reserved opinion before but you really are quite arrogant. Who are you to say that any Thai has voted wrongly? Why are you so singularly gifted as to presume what they need or want?

You don't even offer up the caveat of a "in my opinion".- No, it's there in black and white, the Thais who voted for the PTP are wrong, and you a superannuated expat, are right, end of story. As I say, the sheer arrogance astounds me.

In the German elections of 1932, the Nazis got around 40% of the vote, which lead to the 1933 one-party elections where they got 90%.

To save accusations of being an arrogant foreigner, IMHO those voters made a bad mistake.

As I have said before, the rise of a strong leader with a private army, rarely leads to democracy and peace.

[nurofiend]

Animatic, I've reserved opinion before but you really are quite arrogant. Who are you to say that any Thai has voted wrongly? Why are you so singularly gifted as to presume what they need or want?

You don't even offer up the caveat of a "in my opinion".- No, it's there in black and white, the Thais who voted for the PTP are wrong, and you a superannuated expat, are right, end of story. As I say, the sheer arrogance astounds me.

In the German elections of 1932, the Nazis got around 40% of the vote, which lead to the 1933 one-party elections where they got 90%.

To save accusations of being an arrogant foreigner, IMHO those voters made a bad mistake.

As I have said before, the rise of a strong leader with a private army, rarely leads to democracy and peace.

1. the red shirts aren't an army.

2. he rose to power before the red shirts existed.

[JAG]

Half the voters were quite wrong,

why they voted so grandly wrong will be analyzed into the future.

When they will realizes this was the case, is another open question.

It will happen someday in spite of the information control

and propaganda they are victims of in recent history to the present.

Seeing things wrong, or making sure OTHERS see things wrongly,

seems to be a job description for some on TVF, a sad state of affairs.

Misreading the warnings of history is another team sport. Some make sure

that, if possible, the signs of historical parallels are as obscured as possible.

Can't pull the wool over an informed populaces eyes, so keep them ill informed

if possible, and slap down those voices that might inform them properly and clearly.

Carry on.

Animatic, it really must be immensely frustrating being so right about everything, yet having the people amongst whom you live failing to follow your advice. Those pesky Thais really don't deserve to be granted the fruits of your omniscient, nay Olympian wisdom!

[OzMick]

"The voters voted in a majority." Yep ... all 100% of them voted.

Unfortunately, only 48% voted for PTP. I'm sure not all of them were red shirt supporters. Maybe 80% of them were female though.

Being mathematically inclined, I think the claim that the red shirts are 80% female is quite interesting. If for simplicity we assume that the population is 50% male/female, then if EVERY woman in the country is a red shirt, that would give you 50% of the voter population, plus the males of which only a quarter (20/80) joined, which gives you a maximum of 62.5%. A majority, but hardly overwhelming when you consider the ridiculous presumption that ALL women are red shirts.

When you drop that presumption to a more realistic HALF of the women in Thailand, the figure drops proportionately to 32% of the voter population. A quarter of the women, gives you less than 16% - a nasty, overly vocal and violent minority.

It is also my experience that in poor Thai families, the scarce resources available for education are disproportionately allocated to the boys for the obvious reasons. If 80% of the red shirts are women, it begs the question why so many of the better educated in that area choose not to be members.

Edited February 24, 2012 by craigt3365
edited post removed from view

[OzMick]

Animatic, I've reserved opinion before but you really are quite arrogant. Who are you to say that any Thai has voted wrongly? Why are you so singularly gifted as to presume what they need or want?

You don't even offer up the caveat of a "in my opinion".- No, it's there in black and white, the Thais who voted for the PTP are wrong, and you a superannuated expat, are right, end of story. As I say, the sheer arrogance astounds me.

In the German elections of 1932, the Nazis got around 40% of the vote, which lead to the 1933 one-party elections where they got 90%.

To save accusations of being an arrogant foreigner, IMHO those voters made a bad mistake.

As I have said before, the rise of a strong leader with a private army, rarely leads to democracy and peace.

1. the red shirts aren't an army.

2. he rose to power before the red shirts existed.

1/ militia (certainly armed) if you prefer

2/ he rose was deposed, and his proxy sister came to power as a direct result of the red shirt actions. And he obviously aspires to a return.

[Buchholz]

The voters voted in a majority, not a minority. A majority not needing coalitions to enact its program.

And you are correct. It will be analyzed in the future. A little over three years from now to be exact.

Seeing things the way I do, and expressing those points-of-view, is what political junkies do.

Perhaps some may concur with them.

Many don't and that is what political junkie dialogue is all about.

As opposed to it being a sad state of affairs, perhaps can be considered otherwise.

"The voters voted in a majority." Yep ... all 100% of them voted.

Unfortunately, only 48% voted for PTP. I'm sure not all of them were red shirt supporters. Maybe 80% of them were female though.

Being mathematically inclined, I think the claim that the red shirts are 80% female is quite interesting. If for simplicity we assume that the population is 50% male/female, then if EVERY woman in the country is a red shirt, that would give you 50% of the voter population, plus the males of which only a quarter (20/80) joined, which gives you a maximum of 62.5%. A majority, but hardly overwhelming when you consider the ridiculous presumption that ALL women are red shirts.

When you drop that presumption to a more realistic HALF of the women in Thailand, the figure drops proportionately to 32% of the voter population. A quarter of the women, gives you less than 16% - a nasty, overly vocal and violent minority.

It is also my experience that in poor Thai families, the scarce resources available for education are disproportionately allocated to the boys for the obvious reasons. If 80% of the red shirts are women, it begs the question why so many of the better educated in that area choose not to be members.

Although, one also shouldn't discount the peaceful contributions of these supposed 80% Red Shirt women

.

[nurofiend]

Animatic, I've reserved opinion before but you really are quite arrogant. Who are you to say that any Thai has voted wrongly? Why are you so singularly gifted as to presume what they need or want?

You don't even offer up the caveat of a "in my opinion".- No, it's there in black and white, the Thais who voted for the PTP are wrong, and you a superannuated expat, are right, end of story. As I say, the sheer arrogance astounds me.

In the German elections of 1932, the Nazis got around 40% of the vote, which lead to the 1933 one-party elections where they got 90%.

To save accusations of being an arrogant foreigner, IMHO those voters made a bad mistake.

As I have said before, the rise of a strong leader with a private army, rarely leads to democracy and peace.

1. the red shirts aren't an army.

2. he rose to power before the red shirts existed.

1/ militia (certainly armed) if you prefer

2/ he rose was deposed, and his proxy sister came to power as a direct result of the red shirt actions. And he obviously aspires to a return.

1. no i don't prefer, you said army and defining them as an armed militia is still a riddddddiculous statement

2. you said the 'rise of a strong leader with a pivate army'... so it holds no bearing whatsoever on how thaksin rose to power, none whatsoever.

[tlansford]

Animatic, I've reserved opinion before but you really are quite arrogant. Who are you to say that any Thai has voted wrongly? Why are you so singularly gifted as to presume what they need or want?

You don't even offer up the caveat of a "in my opinion".- No, it's there in black and white, the Thais who voted for the PTP are wrong, and you a superannuated expat, are right, end of story. As I say, the sheer arrogance astounds me.

In the German elections of 1932, the Nazis got around 40% of the vote, which lead to the 1933 one-party elections where they got 90%.

To save accusations of being an arrogant foreigner, IMHO those voters made a bad mistake.

As I have said before, the rise of a strong leader with a private army, rarely leads to democracy and peace.

Hitler : not applicable to this situation, but still your facts are off by just a "little bit"

Nazis party :

1932 2 elections : July/November 37%/33% respectively

1933 March 44% (not a one party election)

Germany became a 1 party state in July of 1933.

Not 40%. Not 90%. Not a 1 party election. He was never elected chancellor by the Reichstag, but appointed via arm-twisting by President Hindenberg.

[nurofiend]

comparing hitler to thaksin is nothing but an insult to the many millions who suffered by hitlers actions

[Buchholz]

Myself, I always preferred the comparison to his fellow Southeast Asian despot predecessor and role model, Ferdinand Marcos.

Many more viable similarities.

.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Buchholz

[OzMick]

1. the red shirts aren't an army.

2. he rose to power before the red shirts existed.

1/ militia (certainly armed) if you prefer

2/ he rose was deposed, and his proxy sister came to power as a direct result of the red shirt actions. And he obviously aspires to a return.

1. no i don't prefer, you said army and defining them as an armed militia is still a riddddddiculous statement

2. you said the 'rise of a strong leader with a pivate army'... so it holds no bearing whatsoever on how thaksin rose to power, none whatsoever.

If you go back to my original post above, my statement did not mention either Thaksin or the red shirts. can we discuss what i stated rather than your inferences.

[nurofiend]

1. the red shirts aren't an army.

2. he rose to power before the red shirts existed.

1/ militia (certainly armed) if you prefer

2/ he rose was deposed, and his proxy sister came to power as a direct result of the red shirt actions. And he obviously aspires to a return.

1. no i don't prefer, you said army and defining them as an armed militia is still a riddddddiculous statement

2. you said the 'rise of a strong leader with a pivate army'... so it holds no bearing whatsoever on how thaksin rose to power, none whatsoever.

If you go back to my original post above, my statement did not mention either Thaksin or the red shirts. can we discuss what i stated rather than your inferences.

do you even fool yourself with this kind of nonsense i wonder.

[OzMick]

Animatic, I've reserved opinion before but you really are quite arrogant. Who are you to say that any Thai has voted wrongly? Why are you so singularly gifted as to presume what they need or want?

You don't even offer up the caveat of a "in my opinion".- No, it's there in black and white, the Thais who voted for the PTP are wrong, and you a superannuated expat, are right, end of story. As I say, the sheer arrogance astounds me.

In the German elections of 1932, the Nazis got around 40% of the vote, which lead to the 1933 one-party elections where they got 90%.

To save accusations of being an arrogant foreigner, IMHO those voters made a bad mistake.

As I have said before, the rise of a strong leader with a private army, rarely leads to democracy and peace.

Hitler : not applicable to this situation, but still your facts are off by just a "little bit"

Nazis party :

1932 2 elections : July/November 37%/33% respectively

1933 March 44% (not a one party election)

Germany became a 1 party state in July of 1933.

Not 40%. Not 90%. Not a 1 party election. He was never elected chancellor by the Reichstag, but appointed via arm-twisting by President Hindenberg.

33, 37. 44 qualifies for me as "around 40%" though perhaps I should have said 1932/33.

Germany held one party elections in November 1933 where the Nazis received 90% of the vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_election,_November_1933

Please check your facts before attempting to correct mine.

[tlansford]

Animatic, I've reserved opinion before but you really are quite arrogant. Who are you to say that any Thai has voted wrongly? Why are you so singularly gifted as to presume what they need or want?

You don't even offer up the caveat of a "in my opinion".- No, it's there in black and white, the Thais who voted for the PTP are wrong, and you a superannuated expat, are right, end of story. As I say, the sheer arrogance astounds me.

In the German elections of 1932, the Nazis got around 40% of the vote, which lead to the 1933 one-party elections where they got 90%.

To save accusations of being an arrogant foreigner, IMHO those voters made a bad mistake.

As I have said before, the rise of a strong leader with a private army, rarely leads to democracy and peace.

Hitler : not applicable to this situation, but still your facts are off by just a "little bit"

Nazis party :

1932 2 elections : July/November 37%/33% respectively

1933 March 44% (not a one party election)

Germany became a 1 party state in July of 1933.

Not 40%. Not 90%. Not a 1 party election. He was never elected chancellor by the Reichstag, but appointed via arm-twisting by President Hindenberg.

33, 37. 44 qualifies for me as "around 40%" though perhaps I should have said 1932/33.

Germany held one party elections in November 1933 where the Nazis received 90% of the vote.

http://en.wikipedia....,_November_1933

Please check your facts before attempting to correct mine.

If your facts were clear, it wouldn't be a problem.

[OzMick]

In the German elections of 1932, the Nazis got around 40% of the vote, which lead to the 1933 one-party elections where they got 90%.

To save accusations of being an arrogant foreigner, IMHO those voters made a bad mistake.

As I have said before, the rise of a strong leader with a private army, rarely leads to democracy and peace.

Hitler : not applicable to this situation, but still your facts are off by just a "little bit"

Nazis party :

1932 2 elections : July/November 37%/33% respectively

1933 March 44% (not a one party election)

Germany became a 1 party state in July of 1933.

Not 40%. Not 90%. Not a 1 party election. He was never elected chancellor by the Reichstag, but appointed via arm-twisting by President Hindenberg.

33, 37. 44 qualifies for me as "around 40%" though perhaps I should have said 1932/33.

Germany held one party elections in November 1933 where the Nazis received 90% of the vote.

http://en.wikipedia....,_November_1933

Please check your facts before attempting to correct mine.

If your facts were clear, it wouldn't be a problem.

Which part of "one-party elections" did you find difficult to understand? You seemed quite clear on the other election results and when Germany became a one-party state, but mis-referred the results of the earlier election when it was quite clear I was referring to the later.

[waza]

Thaksin has the people by his side.

Mark has the army by his side.

If there is a war, it will be like Mao against Chiang Kai Sak in China.

In the end, the people wins.

More like Chiang Kai Sak, or more commonly known as "Cash my Check" , another grossly corrupt leader who ended his days a fugitive, against Poh Yi, the last Emporer.

Edited February 23, 2012 by waza

[waza]

Thaksin has the people by his side.

Mark has the army by his side.

If there is a war, it will be like Mao against Chiang Kai Sak in China.

In the end, the people wins.

Thaksin has the people he can buy on his side. That certainly isn't everyone, and there's a substantial number who can now see right through his schemes - more than ever before.

A full blown conflict may just highlight how flawed democracy in Thailand really is.

Denigrating, besmirching, disparaging, slandering and villifying ones political Opposition seems such an odd exercise, when a vast majority of the countries' electorate gave them a landslide mandate, and will do so again next election.

Depriving them of political awareness by suggesting they are narrowly motivated by their associations, instead of political self-interest seems strange as well.

Either those who are contemptuous are wrong, or those thousands of voters were wrong.

Very confusing and complicated.

Thats what the western economies need to get us over this bump, another Vietnam war.

Edited February 23, 2012 by waza

[waza]

Tlansford, #458

"When I have gone through Red Shirt protests, the protests were (1) huge, (2) peaceful, & (3) filled with a wide cross-section of Thai society"

If you don't mind, I'm going to keep this quote Tlansford.

It describesin large part the make-up of the Red shirts, with probably the added proviso that they are approx. made up of 80% females.

Knowing this most affirmatively from my experience, I can easily brand those who dump on them using Oppositional characterizations, and based on zero personal experiences, as peddling misinformation.

The way the Oppositional parrots describe the Red Shirts is totally out-of-step with reality.

Everyone recalls march-may 2010 as if it were the only protest ever.

That was a very long, complicated, and often violent situation.

It gets a very simplistic treatment on TVF

Other demonstrations by the UDD are forgotten on TVF - apparently - due to the lack of violence...

I remember another protest where they sent burning buses out of control through the streets of Bangkok and tried to set fire to gasoline tankers in residential areas. This was another protest by the red shirts and paid for by a convicted criminal who is a fugitive from justice.

Edited February 23, 2012 by waza

[OzMick]

Thaksin has the people by his side.

Mark has the army by his side.

If there is a war, it will be like Mao against Chiang Kai Sak in China.

In the end, the people wins.

Thaksin has the people he can buy on his side. That certainly isn't everyone, and there's a substantial number who can now see right through his schemes - more than ever before.

A full blown conflict may just highlight how flawed democracy in Thailand really is.

Denigrating, besmirching, disparaging, slandering and villifying ones political Opposition seems such an odd exercise, when a vast majority of the countries' electorate gave them a landslide mandate, and will do so again next election.

Depriving them of political awareness by suggesting they are narrowly motivated by their associations, instead of political self-interest seems strange as well.

Either those who are contemptuous are wrong, or those thousands of voters were wrong.

Very confusing and complicated.

Thats what the western economies need to get us over this bump, another Vietnam war.

In the latter half of the 20th century, 3 of the wold's major powers found VN too tough to chew on. I suggest they pick someone easier.

[waza]

Thaksin paying his troops.

[blows]

Myself, I always preferred the comparison to his fellow Southeast Asian despot predecessor and role model, Ferdinand Marcos.

Many more viable similarities.

I still like the Darth Vader comparison from 'The Empire Strikes Back' (1980) And fugitive Thaksin returns to Thailand and says 'Abhisit, I am your father' Though Yinglick as Princess Leia might be a stretch, she has yet to turn away from the dark side.

[CalgaryII]

I see the indoctrinated Thaksin haters are out in full force this morning.

Those bad Red Shirts standing up to coupists.

That is anarchism personified, right.

Those poor coupist armed aggressors....poor babies.

Ms. Y. should be reading all this stuff, so she knows the ramifications of winning elections.

There will probably be a nuclear bomb at the biggest Red Shirt rally since before the election, at Bonanaza Resort in Khao Yai, tomorrow.

Imagine what can happen when that many lady anarchists get together at one time, in one place.

[Reasonableman]

I see the indoctrinated Thaksin haters are out in full force this morning.

Those bad Red Shirts standing up to coupists.

That is anarchism personified, right.

Those poor coupist armed aggressors....poor babies.

Ms. Y. should be reading all this stuff, so she knows the ramifications of winning elections.

There will probably be a nuclear bomb at the biggest Red Shirt rally since before the election, at Bonanaza Resort in Khao Yai, tomorrow.

Imagine what can happen when that many lady anarchists get together at one time, in one place.

I hope you are joining them, to add a rational perspective to the debate. Just you and the ladies.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Reasonableman

[phiphidon]

Though there is of course the not so small matter of Newins blue shirts, usually ignored by most folks but an ingredient in the chaos then and through the military connection maybe still to come. This will give you a taster http://asiancorrespo...d-the-military/

'a military connection still to come'? The article is from 2009-05-01. Mind you, k. Jatuporn and a few posters here have promised me a coup, so one of these days you might still be right

I was referring to the military trio member, the calm and collected, not a loose cannon at all, Gen Prayuth, as you well know.

Either your sentence has some logical flaw or I have missed something (which does happen). So, please be so kind as to explain the "blue shirts" <-> "ingredient in chaos" AND "through the mil. conn. maybe still to come"

Did you even read the link I provided - or investigate a bit further on your own? Seek, and you shall find. Hint. It's not just about the red shirts.............................who's behind the blue shirts, what did they do, why did they do it, who would gain, what is their military connection, how does that relate to the present situation - all pertinent to your post.