Here We Go Again! Elephant Nature Camp Being Harrassed Yet Again..

[annabel]

Incredible and sickening that these thugs get away with this!

Both Wildlife Friends Foundation Thailand (WFFT) and Elephant Nature Park (ENP) have been hard hit as both were raided by armed officials of the Department of National Parks (DNP) and police units.

WFFT and ENP feel they have been targeted for speaking out on the recent elephant killings at Kaengkrachan National Park and Kuiburi National Park, and the involvement of officials, politicians and wealthy businessmen.

Wow, what an absolute fantastic man with a HUGE heart for his country, people and animals.

http://external.ak.f...2Fhqdefault.jpg

www.youtube.com

A Thai animal HERO! Tom Dundee, Thai singer and actor comes to the rescue of wildlife at the WFFT rescue center, one his own sending off a 100 officials that...

Edited February 19, 2012 by onthedarkside
petition link removed

[Lizard2010]

We went to the Friends of the Asian Elephant Centre.

Maybe they did not pass over the tea money.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I don't understand.

Lot of hot air, but no link that works.

You can't link directly to non-public facebook content.

I think when the Elephant Nature Park is involved then some caution applies; they have a habit of making grandiose claims to drum up business. Doesn't mean that this event you're talking about isn't worth discussing, but you can only cry wolf so many times before people start applying grains of salt first.

[OriginalPoster]

I don't understand.

Lot of hot air, but no link that works.

You can't link directly to non-public facebook content.

I think when the Elephant Nature Park is involved then some caution applies; they have a habit of making grandiose claims to drum up business. Doesn't mean that this event you're talking about isn't worth discussing, but you can only cry wolf so many times before people start applying grains of salt first.

Can you give some examples of previous incidents? Until now I have never heard anyone speak a negative word about ENP.

[DiamondKing]

That is what you get for opening your mouth and speaking out here in Thailand unfortunatley those animals are now sentenced to death because I am sure they will not be taken care of as well as the WFFT took care of them just look at some of the videos to see they are already being abused and have not even left the facility as yet.

If I was Mr Edwin i might have to arm myself or get some bodyguards cos he has obviously pissed off some very high up people.

DK

[DiamondKing]

I don't understand.

Lot of hot air, but no link that works.

You can't link directly to non-public facebook content.

I think when the Elephant Nature Park is involved then some caution applies; they have a habit of making grandiose claims to drum up business. Doesn't mean that this event you're talking about isn't worth discussing, but you can only cry wolf so many times before people start applying grains of salt first.

You might need to educate yourself before commenting Winnie as you are way off mark

http://www.wfft.org/wildlife-trade/day-5-dnp-raid/

DK

Edited February 19, 2012 by DiamondKing

[DiamondKing]

A good preview of how these animals will now be cared for (or not as the case is) as this animal was confiscated it was captured with no regard for its health and as a result needed vetinary care which was DENIED by the DNP and it was taken anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3NyL9hk3Fs&feature=channel (tried multiple times to embedd but not working)

5 days of raids confiscating animals which had paperwork issued by the thai government all because the head of the WFFT exposed the killings of wild Elephants to steal there babies which are then sold to Elephant parks throughout thailand for up to 1 Million Baht so they can entertain tourists it is alleged that high ranking officials are involved and powerful thai businessmen, as a result of exposing these people the WFFT is now under attack from the DNP even though they have paperwork for all animals and even the DNP has given the WFFT animals to take care of as they do not have the facilities to do so humanely.

Now all of a sudden they are confiscating hundreds of animals ignoring government issued paperwork licenses etc

Just goes to show what happens when mess with there income however this has now gone VIRAL and thailand is in for some very bad press.

DK

PS a bit dramatic but remember these people take care of these animals daily and to have them treated like that without any regards to there current medical condition is wrong, many of these animals were taken in after being abused so many are in bad shape

Edited February 19, 2012 by DiamondKing

[CMSteve]

I'm sorry to see these type of things happening, but I have only been able to find information on one side of the story. does anyone have anything from the government's POV? Are they saying that they are taking the animals for any specific reason?

[DiamondKing]

I'm sorry to see these type of things happening, but I have only been able to find information on one side of the story. does anyone have anything from the government's POV? Are they saying that they are taking the animals for any specific reason?

They are saying the animals are being abused apparently which is ludicris because WFFT has a fantastic reputation for only doing good you can see just by the surroundings and the passionate people that this is ridiculous and after 12 years of taking in animals even from the DNP who sent them there animals to take care of when they confiscated them its clear they have pissed off the wrong people because this is the first time in 12 years they have had a issue.

5 days of raids by armed masked military personal and Police

They went away one day after a famous thai singer and actor was there and stood up for the sanctuary

they are also raiding the ENP who jointly exposed the Elephant killings, (bit of a coincidence) for those that dont know the ENP is a Elephant rehabilitation center ran by a well known Thai lady called Nan who lives to help Elephants and works tirelessly to keep them off the streets.

There are videos of all this on youtube and the book loads of paperwork on the animals is being ignored they don't want to look at it and are confiscating animals by the truckload without any regard for the well being of the animals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaxCukNCp1k&feature=channel

DK

PS Apparently the HEAD OF THE DNP in bangkok knows nothing about the raids even when there was 60-100 Police DNP officials and Army personal

Edited February 19, 2012 by DiamondKing

[OriginalPoster]

I'm sorry to see these type of things happening, but I have only been able to find information on one side of the story. does anyone have anything from the government's POV? Are they saying that they are taking the animals for any specific reason?

You're assuming that the government has a POV on this.

[muchogra]

Thailand, at times, seems like an uncivilized country. Those who suppose to enforce the laws often don't. And when they do, they often just use loopholes to bully the less fortunates on behalf of the powerful ones. There seems no active rightuous groups in Thailand, from top to bottom, who would stand on the side of justice and righteousness! Many foreigners who have been living in Thailand for an extended amount of time seem also bend toward such a cultural trait. Sad!

[Frenchtouch]

Have you sent this recording to the Thai media (TV)? It seens the anchorman in the morning news on Thaitv3 likes animals, maybe he could help?

At the same time, every night, in Lopburi, 3 elephants cubs (very young) with their (very young too) mahouts beg for money among the crowd who goes to King Narai Palace for the last 5 days. This with dozens of policemen around. Is that still legal? The noise there and the crowd there is hard to describe and they spend hours there, lying on the ground or moving from one leg to the other. they really look stressed as they are young cubs. Anuthing to do with them?

[millwall_fan]

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised at anything that goes on in this country. But if the allegations in the videos can be substantiated, this is truly appalling.

[OriginalPoster]

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised at anything that goes on in this country. But if the allegations in the videos can be substantiated, this is truly appalling.

What's even more appalling is that if 10 cops show up on Loy Khoh Rd to arrest Lady Boys for hooking we will have a thread on ThaiVisa with 200 replies hashing it out but if the Elephant Nature Park is raided by 100 armed officers all we get is either silence from Thai Visas most prolific members or take thinly veiled potshots against ENP. But <deleted> the Elephants and than those freakish animal activists, if they weren't good for nothing they would be running a beer bar with the best burgers in Chiang Mai instead of an animal sanctuary.

By now this story has been picked up by the Nation and Bangkok Post newspapers in Bangkok, by the National Geographic in the US, and by the Guardian in the UK. Will that help? I don't know, maybe to get the confiscated animals returned but I suspect not to hold anyone responsible.

Edited February 22, 2012 by OriginalPoster

[millwall_fan]

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised at anything that goes on in this country. But if the allegations in the videos can be substantiated, this is truly appalling.

What's even more appalling is that if 10 cops show up on Loy Khoh Rd to arrest Lady Boys for hooking we will have a thread on ThaiVisa with 200 replies hashing it out but if the Elephant Nature Park is raided by 100 armed officers all we get is either silence from Thai Visas most prolific members or take thinly veiled potshots against ENP. But <deleted> the Elephants and than those freakish animal activists, if they weren't good for nothing they would be running a beer bar with the best burgers in Chiang Mai instead of an animal sanctuary.

By now this story has been picked up by the Nation and Bangkok Post newspapers in Bangkok, by the National Geographic in the US, and by the Guardian in the UK. Will that help? I don't know, maybe to get the confiscated animals returned but I suspect not to hold anyone responsible.

I guess the angry, ill conceived posts by 'freakish animal rights activists' such as you appear to be, probably puts a lot of people off. I would very much like to see a clampdown on lady boys on Loi Kroh Rd as they harm my business, but I can't see what that has got to do with elephants. One activity that has been stopped on Loi Kroh Rd, is the nightly sight of depressed looking elephants up and down the street with their aggressive mahouts. That was thanks to an Australian couple who were both injured by mahouts after they remonstrated with them.

The best thing that people who are fond of elephants can do is to publicise these pictures as widely as possible. It is amazing how the military and DNP people allowed the filming to continue. The more people that see this footage the better. It will be interesting to see if the Bangkok Post or Nation carry any articles and if both sides are put. It would be interesting to hear the DNP's defence of what they did.

In the meantime, originalposter, try to calm down and present your case. Not many people may have replied but almost 700 people have read this thread. If each of them tell a few others (as I will) the news will spread.

[lannarebirth]

I can't find the post, but I remember BM "sabaijai" once posted a fairly incriminating video about the ENP, wherein the lady in chief fund raiser was shouting orders to beat the elephant harder for propaganda purposes. Maybe things are better there now.

[lannarebirth]

BTW, I was talking to a nice Thai kid the other day. Maybe 28 yo. He had an elephant that he'd had for 3 years, He was dam_n near going insane about the day in day out care and maintenance of an elephant. He says they eat 400 kg per day. He says he doesn't make that most days but in a good tourists season he makes enough for that and a lot more he says. He says he doesn't like to send them to bad areas or hit them but what can he do, they're hungry?

[OriginalPoster]

I can't find the post, but I remember BM "sabaijai" once posted a fairly incriminating video about the ENP, wherein the lady in chief fund raiser was shouting orders to beat the elephant harder for propaganda purposes. Maybe things are better there now.

Are you sure that it was the Elephant Nature Park?

[el jefe]

BTW, I was talking to a nice Thai kid the other day. Maybe 28 yo. He had an elephant that he'd had for 3 years, He was dam_n near going insane about the day in day out care and maintenance of an elephant. He says they eat 400 kg per day. He says he doesn't make that most days but in a good tourists season he makes enough for that and a lot more he says. He says he doesn't like to send them to bad areas or hit them but what can he do, they're hungry?

"Nice kid"???? Where and why did he get an elephant? He go t the elephant as a means to make money. That's wrong. If ghe was a "nice" kid he would get a job rather than torture an elephant by making it walk the streets. Did he say where he keeps it during the day? btw, does he know that it's illegal to walk an elephant in the streets of CM begging for money for food?

[lannarebirth]

I can't find the post, but I remember BM "sabaijai" once posted a fairly incriminating video about the ENP, wherein the lady in chief fund raiser was shouting orders to beat the elephant harder for propaganda purposes. Maybe things are better there now.

Are you sure that it was the Elephant Nature Park?

I found the post:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/185451-elephant-rides-cruelty/page__view__findpost__p__1954512

[lannarebirth]

BTW, I was talking to a nice Thai kid the other day. Maybe 28 yo. He had an elephant that he'd had for 3 years, He was dam_n near going insane about the day in day out care and maintenance of an elephant. He says they eat 400 kg per day. He says he doesn't make that most days but in a good tourists season he makes enough for that and a lot more he says. He says he doesn't like to send them to bad areas or hit them but what can he do, they're hungry?

"Nice kid"???? Where and why did he get an elephant? He go t the elephant as a means to make money. That's wrong. If ghe was a "nice" kid he would get a job rather than torture an elephant by making it walk the streets. Did he say where he keeps it during the day? btw, does he know that it's illegal to walk an elephant in the streets of CM begging for money for food?

Yeah, he was a nice kid and he loved/hated his elephant. He said it was the bane of his existence and had bankrupted his family. He still takes care of the elephant because he sees his responsibility to it, but he absolutely questions whether he did the right thing by taking that commitment on.

[OriginalPoster]

BTW, I was talking to a nice Thai kid the other day. Maybe 28 yo. He had an elephant that he'd had for 3 years, He was dam_n near going insane about the day in day out care and maintenance of an elephant. He says they eat 400 kg per day. He says he doesn't make that most days but in a good tourists season he makes enough for that and a lot more he says. He says he doesn't like to send them to bad areas or hit them but what can he do, they're hungry?

"Nice kid"???? Where and why did he get an elephant? He go t the elephant as a means to make money. That's wrong. If ghe was a "nice" kid he would get a job rather than torture an elephant by making it walk the streets. Did he say where he keeps it during the day? btw, does he know that it's illegal to walk an elephant in the streets of CM begging for money for food?

Yeah, he was a nice kid and he loved/hated his elephant. He said it was the bane of his existence and had bankrupted his family. He still takes care of the elephant because he sees his responsibility to it, but he absolutely questions whether he did the right thing by taking that commitment on.

Some drug dealers lose money too. A lot of them are nice guys. All that shows is that the bottom wrung of a commercial operation is sometimes not the best place to be. I betcha that the guy who sold the kid the baby elephant made money.

[wolf5370]

Why is this not in the Thai News Forum - isn't it news? Dusit zoo welcoming a big-headed tortoise is, but raids by a government department that seems to be enacted purely as revenge for speaking out against illegal trade isn't???

Been following this on twitter, facebook and discussion with friends (Thai) who are outraged, but do not know what to do. Thai government sits back and ignores it with no comment - so much for transparency. Another arrest of illegal traders - elephant meat and ivory folows from rescue of 100 pangolins (worth 5000b per Kg!) - there is big money here and powerful people at play (not powerful enough to take on a famous actor and singer though!).

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Why is this not in the Thai News Forum - isn't it news?

If it's not in The Nation it's not news!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

"Nice kid"???? Where and why did he get an elephant? He go t the elephant as a means to make money. That's wrong.

Why, actually? Not sure about the background, I would agree that elephants have no place downtown. And indeed authorities finally seem succesful in putting an end to that. But why would it be wrong in an elephant camp? Any worse than keeping horses, dogs or buffalo?

The Elephant Nure Park, as an example, most certainly keeps elephants as a means to make money. They have this whole brainwashing thing going on with their customers/visitors, but in the end they breed elephants in order to offer a (very successful) tourist attraction disguised as volunteering. Nothing wrong with that per se of course, just a little hypocritical.

In the meantime, originalposter, try to calm down and present your case.

Yes please. I still don't get it. Please, one step at the time, starting for example with why does this organization keep animals in cages and enclosures in the first place. There's a lot of shouting gong on, here and also on their Facebook page and on the TAT's facebook page by people all riles up, but preciously little information.

[Nienke]

The Elephant Nure Park, as an example, most certainly keeps elephants as a means to make money. They have this whole brainwashing thing going on with their customers/visitors, but in the end they breed elephants in order to offer a (very successful) tourist attraction disguised as volunteering. Nothing wrong with that per se of course, just a little hypocritical.

Wow, that's a big accusation. Can you come up with solid proof for this? If not, better to not put it in black and white.

[Nienke]

Yes please. I still don't get it. Please, one step at the time, starting for example with why does this organization keep animals in cages and enclosures in the first place. There's a lot of shouting gong on, here and also on their Facebook page and on the TAT's facebook page by people all riles up, but preciously little information.

I assume you with 'this organization' you mean the WFFT?

Apologies for my ignorance about this subject, but how would you suggest they keep those formerly mistreated and often sick (when they just came in) wild animals otherwise?

Aren't rescued wild animals at other rehabilitation centers around the world also kept in (large) cages and enclosures?

[millwall_fan]

According to my wife there's just been a report on Channel 3 news showing the head of the DNP at one of the two parks (not sure which one) dealing with his underlings allegations that some animals didn't have proper paperwork. A Farang guy (who appears in one of the videos above) is saying that they have had these animals for 7 years and why didn't DNP come and sort this out years ago. The director turns to the underling and asks why he wasn't given this information. Underling squirms. Maybe the adverse publicity has got through. The report suggests that the animals will be returned. Maybe someone will keep us posted.

[Nienke]

Edwin Wiek Live on Channel 5 at this very moment: http://www.thaitvnow.com/thaitv-5.htm

[el jefe]

"Nice kid"???? Where and why did he get an elephant? He go t the elephant as a means to make money. That's wrong.

Why, actually? Not sure about the background, I would agree that elephants have no place downtown. And indeed authorities finally seem succesful in putting an end to that. But why would it be wrong in an elephant camp? Any worse than keeping horses, dogs or buffalo?

The Elephant Nure Park, as an example, most certainly keeps elephants as a means to make money. They have this whole brainwashing thing going on with their customers/visitors, but in the end they breed elephants in order to offer a (very successful) tourist attraction disguised as volunteering. Nothing wrong with that per se of course, just a little hypocritical.

Mr Khwai,

Do you really not understand the difference between the Elephant Nature Park or the Mae Sa Elephant Camp legally buying and using elephants in their business, as opposed to some "nice kid" who obviously has no clue about the needs of an elephant buying one so he can illegally walk it on the streets of CM so he can beg for money?

I'm not in favor of either, but there is a big difference.

I'll take your word for it that the authorities have been successful in putting an end to elephants walking the streets "downtown" since I rarely go to Loi Kroh in the evenings, but they certainly haven't put an end to it in the Nimman area.