Pushing, Shoving And Line Jumping

[BigRick]

The last time someone put something on the checkout in front of me I had the girl ring it up with my stuff and took it with me.

Now that is funny and what a great thing to do! Unless of course its tampons and Thai drama rags.

[BigRick]

By no means am I suggesting it is always easy to do the right thing or to respond in a manner that is the cultural norm here but the OP wanted to know the acceptable forms of response and I really don't think he meant "hopefully not land us in jail" response when he asked this. Nor do I think he wanted to hear stories of how men have justified being physically abusive towards small women in public.

And by the way Kudos to the OP for caring enough and being intelligent enough to seek out such information. I get the feeling he is going to be happy here and not end up having to hate Thais and/or most all things Thai or feel a need to constantly remind himself (and others) why he is superior to to Thais.

As for me, I certainly see many things I think are odd or even backwards here but having learned how to enjoy life, not stress or worry over the little things and or things I cannot (or really don't want) to control is a gift I owe to Thais. I can't get back the time I wasted in life judging, complaining and worrying over nonsense but it is a gift to be able to see this now and continue to improve myself and look to be happy as much as possible and enjoy life regardless of what situation I find myself.

I am grateful for this gift of enlightenment (for lack of a better term) and hope some or even one person was able to put down their defenses long enough to see the way they may be living, by allowing others to dictate their happiness and control their behavior, is neither a rewarding or fulfilling life.

Sorry man you are just an apologist for rude behavior. You talk about the Thais like they are children instead of millions of people who have just as many reactions as there are stars in the sky. Do you know about Thai smiles? The seven basic? If not then maybe you need to stop beating a dead horse because no one is agreeing with you and the way you pigeon hole the entire culture is very "colonial" These good savages are just doing what Bully good savages do, Here here good man stiff upper lip they will be like the Indians soon enough a good Englishman but second class. Bottom line being rude is not accepted in Thai culture and I would like to see your references to validate your point. My girlfriend laughs about your replies said Farang mai khai chi Thailand Thai Jai De, Mai Jai de, Kinyo Mai kinyo not same everywhere.

[BlackArtemis]

Honestly saying, in Thai, "Excuse me, but I was here first" has solved this every time for me. I have been the invisible Farang MANY times, but this works. I hate it too, but why act like a schmuck and throw a tantrum? The look on their face is priceless when you politely inform them in Thai, because 99% of the time they know what they did and they feel foolish for doing so. You get a smile, a blush, and a sorry and everything is done.

However, buying what they put in front of you may be my new go to choice! :cheers:

[Nisa]

By no means am I suggesting it is always easy to do the right thing or to respond in a manner that is the cultural norm here but the OP wanted to know the acceptable forms of response and I really don't think he meant "hopefully not land us in jail" response when he asked this. Nor do I think he wanted to hear stories of how men have justified being physically abusive towards small women in public.

And by the way Kudos to the OP for caring enough and being intelligent enough to seek out such information. I get the feeling he is going to be happy here and not end up having to hate Thais and/or most all things Thai or feel a need to constantly remind himself (and others) why he is superior to to Thais.

As for me, I certainly see many things I think are odd or even backwards here but having learned how to enjoy life, not stress or worry over the little things and or things I cannot (or really don't want) to control is a gift I owe to Thais. I can't get back the time I wasted in life judging, complaining and worrying over nonsense but it is a gift to be able to see this now and continue to improve myself and look to be happy as much as possible and enjoy life regardless of what situation I find myself.

I am grateful for this gift of enlightenment (for lack of a better term) and hope some or even one person was able to put down their defenses long enough to see the way they may be living, by allowing others to dictate their happiness and control their behavior, is neither a rewarding or fulfilling life.

Sorry man you are just an apologist for rude behavior. You talk about the Thais like they are children instead of millions of people who have just as many reactions as there are stars in the sky. Do you know about Thai smiles? The seven basic? If not then maybe you need to stop beating a dead horse because no one is agreeing with you and the way you pigeon hole the entire culture is very "colonial" These good savages are just doing what Bully good savages do, Here here good man stiff upper lip they will be like the Indians soon enough a good Englishman but second class. Bottom line being rude is not accepted in Thai culture and I would like to see your references to validate your point. My girlfriend laughs about your replies said Farang mai khai chi Thailand Thai Jai De, Mai Jai de, Kinyo Mai kinyo not same everywhere.

You sound like a happy person - to each his own.

[tinfoilhat]

what a boring bunch of whingeing nonsense. if people are constantly pushing in front of you, it says something about your demeanor.

it happens to me once in a blue moon, and certainly never goes unchallenged

[robblok]

The last time someone put something on the checkout in front of me I had the girl ring it up with my stuff and took it with me.

That really made me smile and laugh.

I don't seem to have much problems with people trying to get in front of me. It has happened a few times but usually the cashier tells them to go back in the line. It really does not bother me much i know its rude.

I have my own things that bother me but this is not one of them. I am annoyed by Thai traffic and the double parking and cutting in front of lines holding entire strips of road occupied for their convenience. But so does my gf she tells me those are rude people who really are not kreng jai

[pmarlin]

Odd, I've been here 11 years and haven't experienced the bad manners people are complaining about here; the only issue I have is the daily stock car race

Yes it is odd, I'm a daily walker and I see it expierence it at least a dozem times in an hour On Asoke and Sukhumvit.

[healthcaretaker]

pumpum,

This is typical Asian practices. Only in Singapore you can't any of such happenings.

My only "ticketing" problem in Thailand is when I queue for tickets at the Green Bus in Chiang Mai. it took me 30 mins to reach the window and the seller tell me "today full". I told her, if today's tickets are all sold out, why don't you put a notice on the window so we don't waste time for the long queue ? With broken English, she will point to the Hotline number shown in their English banner telling me to call them ahead in future or complain to them instead; and I have to explain that I have called that number many times but no "live" voice ever answered me. It's always answered with a machine-set voice in Thai language. Of course, no one cares

In China, the condition is worse. You queue for train and bus tickets window, someone will jump and cut right at the window and the ticket seller or a security nearby see it but will do nothing about it.

In Malaysia, you can queue for 15 mins at a ticket vending machine for a ticket and when you reaches it, you find something not working there; or your money eaten by the machine or the ticket you bought doesn't work; then the information counter staff will ask you to go all the way to another station to make a report. If you do the report, you need to leave your phone number with them, they will tell you it takes 14 to 21 days for them to get back to you but they will never did.

Or you queue for something, suddenly they tell you to go to another line as "counter closed".

In fact, I find people in Thailand already getting very polished. Such incidents are getting less now, showed that people are getting more civilised now.

It's the offices and tickets sellers that give me problems, not the people around.

It's just like forum chat, occassionally you find someone reply you with some unreasonalable remarks too, isn't it ?

In fact, Thai practice has a good side too. If you take too much time asking at the ticket counters, people behind you won't complain. In China, if you ask too much or take more than 60 seconds, people behind you will make noise.

[DLock]

I get the odd queue jumper occasionally, but rarely directly in front of me. I will always remind them that the queues starts back there. Sometimes they will act surprised and go to the back, other times they will just look at me at do nothing and endure the stares of everyone behind them. It's not worth dragging him to the back of the queue as a lesson in politeness, but I often want to.

Never at the supermarket.

The MRT exit is always interesting as people clutter the exit. I usually walk through people that try to get on before I get off, otherwise the flow of people makes it hard to get off.

The plane exit is another matter - they will bunch up like lemmings not letting those seated ahead of them get out to save 10 seconds and get to the belt faster than you. Half the time, polite people will stop and let me out, but the rest of the time, you have no option but to stake your rightful place in the queue by stepping in front of people or sit there until the plane has emptied.

[draftvader]

It's a rapidly changing world. Endless Advertisements and Movies and TV shows espousing and encouraging individuality and personal freedom and 'put yourself first' and 'you are number 1'! Facebook and Texting where every trivial action and event in life is commented on. These are part of the reasons why youth are increasingly narcissistic (as studies have shown).

However I don't think the line jumping issue is just the younger Thais. I don't even think it is just the Thais. Plenty of foreigners here also do it, queue jump or are rude in general. (Airports also seems to bring out the worst in all nationalities).

The social etiquette rules are certainly different here than in Australia, but I think you have to adapt a little. Rude people do exist everywhere.

As for the toilet. If it was urgent I would have stepped back in front.

I would like to think I would have pee'ed on her leg! I wouldn't have, but the thought is just too much fun not to contemplate

[CarlBkk]

It really comes down to those who do it have not learnt any manners, regardless of Thai culture. It's universally rude, the only difference is that fellow Thais are much more accepting of it...despite inside being irritated. However, certain Thais will berate others who push in front of them in examples given by the OP, but are not likely to physically reclaim their place. As foreigners, we see red when it comes to this basic lack of manners and will speak out AND reclaim our place. A good thing no doubt, because those to blatantly queue jump or push in to a point of absolute rudeness, realising it or not, old Chinese woman or teenager, deserve some embarrassment.

[baboon]

I am told Bangkok has nothing on Seoul...

[Pseudolus]

On the flip side, who when at the check out with a trolly full of stuff on noticing the person behind with a couple of things to buy lets them go first? I always do. especially if they happen to be the suited and tied Sunday church brigade just to get them out of earshot.

[robblok]

On the flip side, who when at the check out with a trolly full of stuff on noticing the person behind with a couple of things to buy lets them go first? I always do. especially if they happen to be the suited and tied Sunday church brigade just to get them out of earshot.

Sure why not, if i have a full cart and the others behind me just a few things.

[oldsailor35]

I get particularly annoyed when i am waiting at Macro to get my goods weighed and tagged, when a Thai just comes up, pushes my goods aside and plonks his in front to get weighed first. I used to ignore it, but now i just move his goods aside, and put mine back in front.

[pattayadingo]

What are you? A 5 foot midget? Most of us are big enough to stand our ground and we should do that. If they push in, you push back in and ignore them the same way they do to you.

[Geekfreaklover]

_{I took a small stand the other day. Queing to get change at a BTS station a smartly dressed middle-aged Thai male simply stepped infront of me in the line. It was a brazen display of line-jumping on his part and he knew it. Calmly and under my breath I muttered the barely audiable phrase 'Ahia,' and hey presto he turned around looked at me with an embarrased smile and went to the back of the line where he belonged.}

Edited February 23, 2012 by Geekfreaklover

[JurgenG]

I am tall and sturdy most of the time I just don't let them move me and use my size back without being aggressive. Want to walk into me then you get a lesson in Physics 124kg vs 60kg Trust me they understand you just have to let them know you don't care because you understand they are the ones with a poor upbringing. But on a side note I also live in Thailand and I see Europeans especially Russians pulling this crap all the time. My favorite is the Thai idiots who stand in front of the escalator and talk I just walk through them and laugh. I had to give some Indian woman the stiff arm for knocking into my girlfriend like she was not there. People react when they realize they get a taste of their own medicine. Most of the Thais in my neighborhood do not tolerate line cutting especially if its me because I am always so nice and friendly. In fact nothing puts a smile on my face like someone pulling a "Invisible farang" routine and the stall owner pulling the "invisible Thai" routine. The look on their face is priceless like "what do you mean he was in line but I am Thai!" It pays to be nice where you live because I found the Thais where I live will go out of their way to reciprocate a smile and a kind gesture. As far as the grocery store goes I take no prisoners. They cut I just move their stuff into a basket if the cashier does nothing then I touch everything then leave it in a basket on the ground in front of the line. They take losing face so much different than us.

You remind me of a friend of mine, a huge guy we used to call Tyson for obvious reason. It was our first days in Hong Kong and we were not yet used to the shoving and pushing that are the rule here. He was the only one of us not complaining and when we were asking him why, it seems he didn't understand what was our problem. Later when following him we understood why. Watching him walking down Nathan Road was like watching Moses crossing the red sea, the dense crowd was literally opening in front of this huge black guy that was head and shoulder taller than everybody else around him to close right behind.

Life is unfair.

[Sortapundit]

I love this thread. Lots of good points, lots of bullsh*t, lots of laughs and lots of people trying to 'out-Thai' each other. Brilliant

Now I barely live in Thailand what with leaving every few months, but I've lived here long enough to know that queue jumping and other minor slights are relatively rare here. As many have said China is worse, as is Tokyo during rush hour, and while living in Mongolia I'm either an invisible yellowhead or a fist magnet due to the fact that I dare date a Mongolian. Judging by the outraged posts here a lot of you would have a stroke if you ever found yourself crossing a land border in any of the 'stans - by comparison living in Thailand is like being licked by kittens. Saying that, I'll still get annoyed about it here even if it isn't something I have to deal with every day - perhaps more so, even, as it's all the more unexpected in Bangkok.

*Caveat*: Thais don't seem to have the slightest clue how to use a shopping trolley. I dread visiting Tesco or Big C to negotiate the carts abandoned in the middle of each aisle, and a trip to the Villa Market near Chong Nonsi the other day gave me a rage headache after slaloming through every aisle to avoid the cretins chatting, texting and doing their famous living statue impressions. Get it together guys (and idiot farangs).

The worst case of queue jumping I've seen recently came last week at the Thai embassy in Vientiane, and the Pattaya based poster on the previous page will be pleased to know it was a Russian at fault. If you've been to the embassy you'll know they work on a ticket system, and despite the almost non-existent signage it usually works quite well.

With 50 or so people having waited patiently for several hours in the sun, a chubby young Russian girl and a large, middle aged, possibly middle eastern woman sidled up to the queue with ticket numbers that wouldn't be called for an hour. The missus and I remained silent (her because she hadn't noticed, and me because I'm English, dash it, and it doesn't do to make a fuss), so I was relieved when I heard the English guy behind me lay down the law extremely loudly (but with commendable restraint) to the young Russian woman who, rather than acknowledge her mistake and sit down, simply stared him down with a bovine expression and complained that she had a young child with her who cries when he's left alone. The Englishman responded that in that case she should go back to her seat and comfort the child until her number was called. The older woman yelled at him not to be so rude, and at that point her English husband, a rather short John Sessions lookalike who really didn't suit the tough guy act, waded in to the scrum to defend his wife, assuring the complainer that she of course didn't intend to push in but was, rather, simply standing adjacent to the queue and would stand aside and wait her turn.

Of course the Russian brazenly moved up the queue, all the while absurdly attempting to defend herself while the 50 people ahead of her did their level best to kill her with their eyes, and attempted to be served. On that day God decided to smile on us. Our bolshy Russian was told that her paperwork wasn't in order and slunk off to the photocopier in disgrace, hated by every man jack at the embassy.

By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if the Englishman who had the balls to make a fuss while the rest of us sat silently frequented the forum. If so I owe you a pint.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Sortapundit

[CarlBkk]

Hang on a sec, if it's a ticket system how did the Russian woman get served without the correct ticket number? The perfect time to announce her inability to understand a queuing and ticket system would be when she reaches the counter and the Englishman could have piped up again to the server to let them know.

[Sortapundit]

The ticketing seems to work on the honour system. When your number is called (or a block of about 10-15 numbers) you take your place in the queue. Until then you stay seated. I've been there a few times and have never been asked to produce my ticket to the server, more's the pity.

And, of course, the people at the counter couldn't care less if someone takes the p*ss. As far as they're concerned it's been a long morning, it's hot in the booth and they want midday to come so they can stop telling idiot tourists they need two photos on their application form. Don't suppose we can expect them to police the queue as well.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Sortapundit

[Seekingasylum]

Poor queueing etiquette in my experience is quite rare in Thailand although there are notable exceptions. The one that sends me demented wiith rage is invariably in a 7/11 where any number of us might be waiting patiently only for a scrofulous, filthy motorcy guy to waddle in from the street and hand a crumpled note to whichever cashier strikes his fancy demanding the immediate sale of his redbull or what have you. Needless to say, I do nothing certain in the knowledge that his colleagues will be outside and any remonstration on my part will only be met with mob violence, Thai men being the craven cowards they are.

[elwood]

Poor queueing etiquette in my experience is quite rare in Thailand although there are notable exceptions. The one that sends me demented wiith rage is invariably in a 7/11 where any number of us might be waiting patiently only for a scrofulous, filthy motorcy guy to waddle in from the street and hand a crumpled note to whichever cashier strikes his fancy demanding the immediate sale of his redbull or what have you. Needless to say, I do nothing certain in the knowledge that his colleagues will be outside and any remonstration on my part will only be met with mob violence, Thai men being the craven cowards they are.

Although you infer that it happens regularly, I cannot remember ever being queue-jumped in a 7/11 by a motorcycle taxi driver, either fat or thin, filthy or clean. Perhaps you should start using a different 7/11?

And no doubt you can provide concrete evidence that Thai men are craven cowards?

[Nisa]

Poor queueing etiquette in my experience is quite rare in Thailand although there are notable exceptions. The one that sends me demented wiith rage is invariably in a 7/11 where any number of us might be waiting patiently only for a scrofulous, filthy motorcy guy to waddle in from the street and hand a crumpled note to whichever cashier strikes his fancy demanding the immediate sale of his redbull or what have you. Needless to say, I do nothing certain in the knowledge that his colleagues will be outside and any remonstration on my part will only be met with mob violence, Thai men being the craven cowards they are.

Although you infer that it happens regularly, I cannot remember ever being queue-jumped in a 7/11 by a motorcycle taxi driver, either fat or thin, filthy or clean. Perhaps you should start using a different 7/11?

And no doubt you can provide concrete evidence that Thai men are craven cowards?

He doesn't respond to an action that puts him in a " demented rage" because he is scared ... obviously Thai men are cowards.

[Seekingasylum]

Poor queueing etiquette in my experience is quite rare in Thailand although there are notable exceptions. The one that sends me demented wiith rage is invariably in a 7/11 where any number of us might be waiting patiently only for a scrofulous, filthy motorcy guy to waddle in from the street and hand a crumpled note to whichever cashier strikes his fancy demanding the immediate sale of his redbull or what have you. Needless to say, I do nothing certain in the knowledge that his colleagues will be outside and any remonstration on my part will only be met with mob violence, Thai men being the craven cowards they are.

Although you infer that it happens regularly, I cannot remember ever being queue-jumped in a 7/11 by a motorcycle taxi driver, either fat or thin, filthy or clean. Perhaps you should start using a different 7/11?

And no doubt you can provide concrete evidence that Thai men are craven cowards?

He doesn't respond to an action that puts him in a " demented rage" because he is scared ... obviously Thai men are cowards.

Yes Nisa, I am scared. As evidenced by innumerable reports over the years there have been very few instances, if any, of a falang responding to a Thai man's aggression and not getting hospitalised because he was beaten up by his friends.Thai men do not fight their own battles.If they are bested individually they will seek immediate revenge by summoning their kith and without any compunction they will rip into their victim without mercy inflicting as much violence as possible with as many weapons that may be to hand. It's the way they are. My rage stems as much from frustration at not being able to teach these lumps some manners but, you see, I'm not stupid.

[Seekingasylum]

Although you infer that it happens regularly, I cannot remember ever being queue-jumped in a 7/11 by a motorcycle taxi driver, either fat or thin, filthy or clean. Perhaps you should start using a different 7/11?

And no doubt you can provide concrete evidence that Thai men are craven cowards?

No, Elwood, I did not infer that.You did. You, as the reader, infer, I, as the writer, imply. And yes it does happen regularly to me, not frequently, but regularly. Usually at the 7/11 towards the bottom of Soi 23 Suk. Never fails whenever I go in there.

Apropos the " concrete " evidence, sorry pal, but if you need convincing then you're clearly away with the pixies.

[rockderk]

@Pumpum Never go to China if you are appalled by this.

I was just thinking this same thing. A bus stop in Beijing. A double bus pulls up with 50 empty seats. The 12 people with me at the stop rush the door literally wrestling and grunting with effort to get through that door first. I'm last on. Everyone gets a seat. How about the Seoul subway where guys often purposely SMASH into you as you're walking along. Ever been in a ticket queue in India? It's like a sandwich and you're the ham. I don't find Thai particularly rude as far as q-jumping - unless they're behind the wheel of a car, that is.

[Nisa]

Poor queueing etiquette in my experience is quite rare in Thailand although there are notable exceptions. The one that sends me demented wiith rage is invariably in a 7/11 where any number of us might be waiting patiently only for a scrofulous, filthy motorcy guy to waddle in from the street and hand a crumpled note to whichever cashier strikes his fancy demanding the immediate sale of his redbull or what have you. Needless to say, I do nothing certain in the knowledge that his colleagues will be outside and any remonstration on my part will only be met with mob violence, Thai men being the craven cowards they are.

Although you infer that it happens regularly, I cannot remember ever being queue-jumped in a 7/11 by a motorcycle taxi driver, either fat or thin, filthy or clean. Perhaps you should start using a different 7/11?

And no doubt you can provide concrete evidence that Thai men are craven cowards?

He doesn't respond to an action that puts him in a " demented rage" because he is scared ... obviously Thai men are cowards.

Yes Nisa, I am scared. As evidenced by innumerable reports over the years there have been very few instances, if any, of a falang responding to a Thai man's aggression and not getting hospitalised because he was beaten up by his friends.Thai men do not fight their own battles.If they are bested individually they will seek immediate revenge by summoning their kith and without any compunction they will rip into their victim without mercy inflicting as much violence as possible with as many weapons that may be to hand. It's the way they are. My rage stems as much from frustration at not being able to teach these lumps some manners but, you see, I'm not stupid.

So, it is not something you personally have ever witnessed but yet you know that there may be no instances of any Farang responding to a Thai's aggression who was not beaten up by Thais friends.

You say there are too many reports over the years of this happening to even count them. Take a guess how many in this country of 60 million people. Could it be that you just happen to hear about almost every single instance (and some made up) because of your news sources that cater specifically to news that involves and is of interest to farangs?

Interesting to note that there are numerous example of supermen on this thread being aggressive and physcial with Thais who they perceived were aggressive to them but no reports of gangs beating up on them ... yet, you know of no such instances of this.

You obviously haven't visited many tourist spots in Thailand if you haven't seen farangs verbally abusing and getting loud with locals. I see it a fair bit and have never seen a response of violence.

And yes, I do believe you are the one with an issue if you are too scared or unable to find a proper way to address a minor situation like this ... as well as your choice to get yourself into a demented rage. I suggest you address your irrational fear of Thais. Then again if you get into a demented rage over such minor things in life, it might be best you deal with that issue before finding a way to properly address somebody who cut in front of you in a line.

And by the way, if you choose to pick a fight with a person, anywhere on the planet, who is with a group of friends then your thinking is off. But properly addressing somebody and showing respect to them, even if you perceived they showed you disrespect, will rarely ever result in any kind confrontation unless you are dealing with a bunch of drunks or something. But if you are unwise enough to believe disrespect should be met with disrespect then you will not solve anything as well as dramatically increasing the chance of a physical confrontation.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Nisa

[Seekingasylum]

Am I right in thinking English is not your first language?

[bonobo]

I must be living in a different Thailand. Other than Thai drivers, who will try to jump a line most of the time, I almost never experience line jumping by Thais. I had a drunk Russian try to push ahead of me at immigration on last Saturday, but I doubt that I have ever had a Thai try to jump in front of me.

But if it did happen, I would treat it like I would anywhere else. I would stand my ground.