Apple Foxconn Factory Hid Underage Workers

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Apple Foxconn Factory Hid Underage Workers

The latest development in the Apple factory worker conditions saga is that Foxconn allegedly hid underage workers prior to the Fair Labour Association audit that’s currently in progress. According to one Hong Kong-based NGO Students and Scholars Against Corporate Misbehaviour (SACOM), Foxconn was prepared for the inspection and "All underage workers, between 16-17 years old, were not assigned any overtime work and some of them were even sent to other departments" [more...]

Full story: http://www.nettechbl...oxconn-factory/

-- nettechblog.com 2012-02-23

[Lost in LOS]

I worked since I was 16.

Its a bummer that these kids must work, and for little pay, but its better than the alternative. Not eating. No place to sleep. etc etc. If all these people want to stop this get them a job or support them first so they are not out on the street.

I saw a follow up show once where they stopped all the kids working. Some other journalist found them later on and interviewed these kids. The all said they didn't like working so much but now have no money, no food and sleep on the street and eat garbage. I say let them work or find them a better alternative, not just get them fired and leave

same with abortion in the states, if you are against it and get these poor kids thrown on the street, let me see how many you adopt first

[lomatopo]

Well at 16 they're too old to be gymnasts.

Presumably they hid these worker because they knew they were violating one or more laws. Maybe just best to change the laws and allow whatever minimum age worker the people, educators, parent, government and employers think is appropriate. But there does have to be some checks/balances to avoid gross exploitation on minor children, even if it means Apple makes a few less bucks on each iDoodad?

Charles Dickens was pulled from school at 12 and sent to a boot blacking factory to support the family.

[nikster]

I worked since I was 16.

Its a bummer that these kids must work, and for little pay, but its better than the alternative. Not eating. No place to sleep. etc etc. If all these people want to stop this get them a job or support them first so they are not out on the street.

I saw a follow up show once where they stopped all the kids working. Some other journalist found them later on and interviewed these kids. The all said they didn't like working so much but now have no money, no food and sleep on the street and eat garbage. I say let them work or find them a better alternative, not just get them fired and leave

+1

People don't think it through, they just go, oh, child labor, that's bad. But it doesn't occur to them that the only reason those kids are working is that poverty is worse. It's not like bad people take these kids from the fancy international school they'd otherwise go to.... child labor is bad but begging on the streets is good? Oh, begging on the streets is bad too... how about starving to death?

It is a bit strange that 16 year old is underage though... it's legal to work at 16 in Austria and I guess most of Europe and the US?!

[Tywais]

It is a bit strange that 16 year old is underage though... it's legal to work at 16 in Austria and I guess most of Europe and the US?!

I worked a summer job (US housing construction) around that age or a little younger when school was out of session. But I remember having to get a 'work permit', for lack of better word, with parents approval. Just found this on the US Department of Labor site.

The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) sets 14 as the minimum age for most non-agricultural work. However, at any age, youth may deliver newspapers; perform in radio, television, movie, or theatrical productions; work in businesses owned by their parents (except in mining, manufacturing or hazardous jobs); and perform babysitting or perform minor chores around a private home. Also, at any age, youth may be employed as homeworkers to gather evergreens and make evergreen wreaths.

[jamesbrock]

What these people bleating on about Foxconn don't care to acknowledge is that the company has been around since before Apple, which is just one of their clients. I'd be surprised if Apple had any say in its management and day to day operations.

What they also fail to point out, telling us how exploited they are, is that these workers have a steady, reliable income averaging $7,680.00 per annum, so considering China's per capita GDP is $5,184.00, I'd say they're pretty well off. I'm sure there are plenty of Thais that would love to earn that (approx. 236,000 baht p/a)!

Edited February 23, 2012 by jamesbrock

[MaiChai]

Foxconn make computers for Acer, amongst others. The irony is that Apple charge 1st world prices for their products that are manufactured using 3rd world costs. Now I know we take this for granted these days since so much is made in China. However would you want to work in a Chinese factory? If Apple wants to continue to reap profits like they do AND have a squeaky clean image, then they will need to offset some of those profits for improved conditions in their Chinese factories.

[lomatopo]

Yea, I had a paper route at age 12, caddied at 14, mowed lawns, shoveled snow, but these are a bit different from working 18 hours a day, seven days a week polishing the back of an iPad2 and possibly dying in a fiery explosion when the polishing station goes ka-boom.

Apple is having their “Nike moment” so need to get a little more ahead of the issue rather than always dealing with each fire-storm after the fact. I mean, seriously, putting up nets to catch people jumping off the building committing suicide? Who didn’t think that one would be perceived negatively?

This New York Times article from last month raised awareness…

In China, Human Costs Are Built Into an iPad

By CHARLES DUHIGG and DAVID BARBOZA

Published: January 25, 2012

[diz]

The problem of working children is that they can't attend school therefore. And without education they stay poor and have to send later their own kids to work...

[necronx99]

The problem of working children is that they can't attend school therefore. And without education they stay poor and have to send later their own kids to work...

If they didn't wok they still couldn't go to school.

[nikster]

Yea, I had a paper route at age 12, caddied at 14, mowed lawns, shoveled snow, but these are a bit different from working 18 hours a day, seven days a week polishing the back of an iPad2 and possibly dying in a fiery explosion when the polishing station goes ka-boom.

Apple is having their “Nike moment” so need to get a little more ahead of the issue rather than always dealing with each fire-storm after the fact. I mean, seriously, putting up nets to catch people jumping off the building committing suicide? Who didn’t think that one would be perceived negatively?

This New York Times article from last month raised awareness…

In China, Human Costs Are Built Into an iPad

By CHARLES DUHIGG and DAVID BARBOZA

Published: January 25, 2012

I still think the only reason this is news is that it's Apple and Apple in the headlines is like sex, it sells.

Think HP or Dell or anybody manufacturing in China is better? By all reports Foxconn is one of the more desirable workplaces in China... and most certainly will be the first to have been audited by independent reviewers.

Foxconn suicide rate is lower than the USA. FWIW.

[nikster]

What these people bleating on about Foxconn don't care to acknowledge is that the company has been around since before Apple, which is just one of their clients. I'd be surprised if Apple had any say in its management and day to day operations.

What they also fail to point out, telling us how exploited they are, is that these workers have a steady, reliable income averaging $7,680.00 per annum, so considering China's per capita GDP is $5,184.00, I'd say they're pretty well off. I'm sure there are plenty of Thais that would love to earn that (approx. 236,000 baht p/a)!

+1 For some reason the posters after you completely ignored these facts and traded it for the "storyline" in the news which goes like this: "Richest company in the world got rich because it exploits child labor in China!!!!!"

I guess it's too good a story to pass up, even if it's only very loosely related to the truth. Hook, line, and sinker.

[barefoot1988]

Foxconn make computers for Acer, amongst others. The irony is that Apple charge 1st world prices for their products that are manufactured using 3rd world costs. Now I know we take this for granted these days since so much is made in China. However would you want to work in a Chinese factory? If Apple wants to continue to reap profits like they do AND have a squeaky clean image, then they will need to offset some of those profits for improved conditions in their Chinese factories.

the after sales and warranty support is top notch imo, kind of justify the prices if not i find it rather cheap and affordable. its not really pricey like vertu anyway

[lomatopo]

I'd be surprised if Apple had any say in its management and day to day operations.

A truly silly statement.

Are you surprised now?

http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/02/13Fair-Labor-Association-Begins-Inspections-of-Foxconn.html

“We believe that workers everywhere have the right to a safe and fair work environment, which is why we’ve asked the FLA to independently assess the performance of our largest suppliers,” said Tim Cook, Apple’s CEO. “The inspections now underway are unprecedented in the electronics industry, both in scale and scope, and we appreciate the FLA agreeing to take the unusual step of identifying the factories in their reports.”

No one is saying the Apple is the only company benefiting from the low-cost Chinese manufacturing supply chain.

No one is saying that these factory positions are less desirable than the other options, like no job.

Clearly Apple recognizes that the working conditions in the factories of their suppliers reflects negatively on the brand, and they seem genuinely concerned about improving conditions.

Some people are reporting on actual working conditions at these factories, and I fail to see the problem with this kind of reporting? If you don't want to read about it you have that choice, remain ignorant. The posturing, "oh everyone is doing it", "why pick on Apple", "any job is better than nothing", by the Apple boosters reveals a frightening world view and almost racist callousness.

Disclosure: I am a long time AAPL shareholder, I own one iPod.

[UbonOz]

Ok, let them work from 16+ but pay them a decent wage. Pay more for the bad jobs, rotate their work environment, many ways to overcome these issues.

The multi-nationals are making billions every day.

Increase the product by one or two dollars which goes back to the workforce.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

God gave man a penis and a brain, unfortunately, did not give sufficient blood supply to run both at the same time.

[jamesbrock]

Foxconn make computers for Acer, amongst others. The irony is that Apple charge 1st world prices for their products that are manufactured using 3rd world costs. Now I know we take this for granted these days since so much is made in China. However would you want to work in a Chinese factory? If Apple wants to continue to reap profits like they do AND have a squeaky clean image, then they will need to offset some of those profits for improved conditions in their Chinese factories.

No, I was raised in Australia, so of course would not like to work in a Chinese factory; what a ridiculous question. There are, however, over 400,000 Chinese (depending on whose estimates you use) who do want to work in said Chinese factory. Ask your question to someone raised in a developing country, and I bet you wouldn't hear too many no's.

Again, the factories are owned and operated by Foxconn, a completely independent entity - not that anyone would know that by reading any of the articles written about them.

[jamesbrock]

I still think the only reason this is news is that it's Apple and Apple in the headlines is like sex, it sells.

I agree. Like lomatopo said, "Apple is having their “Nike moment”". The articles could easily point out that the factories are owned and operated by a separate company, but how many readers would headlines like 'Major electronics manufacturing factory hid underage workers' or 'In China, Human Costs Are Built Into Electronic Devices Sold by a Number of Companies' attract?

Think HP or Dell or anybody manufacturing in China is better? By all reports Foxconn is one of the more desirable workplaces in China... and most certainly will be the first to have been audited by independent reviewers.

Actually, Foxconn also manufactures products for HP & Dell

Foxconn suicide rate is lower than the USA. FWIW.

It's interesting how people snidely bring up the suicides at various Foxconn factories, which is 1.1 suicides per 100,000 employees (including those factories which produce Apple products as well as those that don't, as the statistics are not broken down further), while completely ignoring the fact that the suicide rate in China is 35 per 100,000 people. So, statistically speaking, people who work for Foxconn are 97% less likely to commit suicide.

[jamesbrock]

I'd be surprised if Apple had any say in its management and day to day operations.

Are you surprised now?

No, well, yes.

Surprised that you think your links prove some sort of point. They certainly prove that Apple is taking the right steps in ensuring their suppliers treat their staff well; however, they do not prove, nor do they even infer, that Apple has any say in the management or day to day operations of the Foxconn factories.

If Apple did have any say, do you really think they would they would ask them to join the FLA, and not just fix the issues?

I'm not saying that the long hours, and dangerous working conditions are acceptable - I am simply saying that the buck stops with Foxconn, and not Apple. Asking them to join the FLA, and take part in the audits is a very clever way to turn the heat away from themselves, and back onto Foxconn, where it rightfully belongs.

It will be very interesting to see what Apple does do though. They could jump up and down and threaten to take their money elsewhere, but that's not as easy as it sounds; especially when the factories churn out such massive numbers to such tight schedules; and Foxconn know that. Hopefully the fear of the public spotlight will force Foxconn to ensure ALL of their factories begin treating their staff better.

[Spoonman]

Ok, let them work from 16+ but pay them a decent wage. Pay more for the bad jobs, rotate their work environment, many ways to overcome these issues.

They are paid minimum wage as per government policy same same OZ (I assume the OZ in UbonOZ = Australia). Are you saying the snotty nosed adolescent's employed at McD's earning a few $$ per hour should earn more/less depending on whether he/she is flipping burgers/Manning the drive thru/Taking out the garbage/scrubbing the deep fryer ?

Edited February 25, 2012 by Spoonman

[nikster]

No one is saying the Apple is the only company benefiting from the low-cost Chinese manufacturing supply chain.

Erm, to be honest, I don't see another company mentioned in the headline...

What to make of "Apple Foxconn Factory Hid Underage Workers"?

t will be very interesting to see what Apple does do though. They could jump up and down and threaten to take their money elsewhere, but that's not as easy as it sounds; especially when the factories churn out such massive numbers to such tight schedules; and Foxconn know that. Hopefully the fear of the public spotlight will force Foxconn to ensure ALL of their factories begin treating their staff better.

I think it will come down to a very simple cost analysis. If Foxconn can easily do it - and I think they can, bettering working conditions isn't all that expensive - they will.

As for Apple - totally agree that it would be very hard for them to leave Foxconn. Apple is running into the problem of large numbers whereby they are too big to move much. It's not like they could just find another shop down the road that makes 100M iPhones a year for them... or that cranks out an iPad every 3 seconds...

[Heimdallr]

No matter how much you love Apple and Steve, you can't justify what has been happening at their factories. Their own executives said they intentionally turned a blind eye because they simply could not find a different supplier and wanted to further push down the costs. Many other major companies have long co-operated with independent bodies to make sure the workers have conditions that follow the law, but not Apple until the most recent scandal. We all love huge profits and well-designed products, but still...

[jamesbrock]

No matter how much you love Apple and Steve, you can't justify what has been happening at their factories.

I give up.

[lomatopo]

Of course Apple has a say in both who manages their account at Foxconn, and who manages the production of their products and in day-to-day operations, and saying otherwise is just crazy. What do you think they do, throw a spec over, and wait for them to churn out iDoodads? ( I may have wrongfully assumed that some of those commenting on this thread had a basic understanding of how contract manufacturing works in the real world. Appraently that is not the case. )

Did anyone actually read the NYT article? (I realize it was long, and that English is not everyone's first language here, but maybe do more than comment on headlines.) From the NYT article:

Apple is not the only electronics company doing business within a troubling supply system. Bleak working conditions have been documented at factories manufacturing products for Dell, Hewlett-Packard, I.B.M., Lenovo, Motorola, Nokia, Sony, Toshiba and others.

Current and former Apple executives, moreover, say the company has made significant strides in improving factories in recent years. Apple has a supplier code of conduct that details standards on labor issues, safety protections and other topics. The company has mounted a vigorous auditing campaign, and when abuses are discovered, Apple says, corrections are demanded.

“We’re trying really hard to make things better,” said one former Apple executive. “But most people would still be really disturbed if they saw where their iPhone comes from.”

Well most people, but not perhaps the Apple apologists who prefer the view with their heads in the sand, or have swallowed the Apple marketing myth hook, line and sinker, along with the rod and reel.

Now get back to work polishing those iPhone screens with that hazardous, carcinogenic fluid.

Edited February 26, 2012 by lomatopo