Hello Everybody

[ShingDam]

Hello i am Frank

i sneeked a bit through the Isaan Forum topics and decided to become a newbie member (cuz the people here seemed to be ok).

Finally iam happy with the new AIS service (although i dont like this company to much) that i am able to have cheap internet connection via mobile phone. (A small window from Isaan "to the farrangs")

I found the disussion about goats interesting and my opinion is (if anyone would like to know) thats if you want to start a bussiness with goats you have to have land first, about 20 Rai, next you have to find high protein food (about 18 to 20 %) which has to be able to grow here in our (Isaan) area (for example Sudan grass, something like alfalfa and so on).

Next you have to start with min. 50 does's and 1 or 2 bucks.

I would suggest boer fullblood breedings.

Next you have to do a good job about management to harmonize breedingseason and the available food to serve your animals with a propper weightgaining.

I have information that the goatmarket in Bkk has a demand about 30 animals a day !

So forget the commentars " Do you ever see thai eat goats " The muslims do !

I saw how the muslims care their stocks in (Yes in) BKK. But they are unable to hold a lot of animals.

My warning is, thailand has a big BIG problem with inbreeding, means that many goats diet because the baby died inside of the does. So it is really very difficult to find a quality stock for start this bussiness. (Dont worry i dont want to sell my goats )

About the location, it is really true, that if you have min. 20 animals to sell that they come with a lorry and pick them up (slaughter price.)

Greetings and sorry for my bad english (German national)

Frank

(Oh yes Shing Dam was the name of my Anglo Nubian Goat Buck 2. times Champion of Thailand, but dead already, that time i didnt knew that you have to seperate bucks and doeses from time to time - him ######ed to much and died as a happy billy boy

[ray23]

Hello i am  Frank

i sneeked a bit through the Isaan Forum topics and decided to become a newbie member  (cuz the people here seemed to be ok).

Finally iam happy with the new AIS service (although i dont like this company to much) that i am able to have cheap internet connection via mobile phone. (A small window from Isaan "to the farrangs")

I found the disussion about goats interesting and my opinion is (if anyone would like to know) thats if you want to start a bussiness with goats you have to have land first, about 20 Rai, next you have to find high protein food (about 18 to 20 %) which has to be able to grow here in our (Isaan) area (for example Sudan grass, something like alfalfa and so on).

Next you have to start with min. 50 does's and 1 or 2 bucks.

I would suggest boer fullblood breedings.

Next you have to do a good job about management to harmonize breedingseason and the available food to serve your animals with a propper weightgaining.

I have information that the goatmarket in Bkk has a demand about 30 animals a day !

So forget the commentars " Do you ever see thai eat goats " The muslims do  !

I saw how the muslims care their stocks in (Yes in) BKK. But they are unable to hold a lot of animals.

My warning is, thailand has a big BIG problem with inbreeding, means that many goats diet because the baby died inside of the does. So it is really very difficult to find a quality stock for start this bussiness. (Dont worry i dont want to sell my goats    )

About the location, it is really true, that if you have min. 20 animals to sell that they come with a lorry and pick them up (slaughter price.)

Greetings and sorry for my bad english (German national)

Frank

(Oh yes Shing Dam was the name of my Anglo Nubian Goat Buck 2. times Champion of Thailand, but dead already, that time i didnt knew that you have to seperate bucks and doeses from time to time - him ######ed to much and died as a happy billy boy   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome your english is just fine and I now know more about goats then I could have imagined.

[Cheeky Farang]

Welcome aboard Frank, and thanks for the info on goat farming. ( just dont die like your old Billy goat did - hahaha, but its fun trying !!!!!!!!!

[bina]

thanx frankie,

and i'm the one that asked about the place in khorat, so be polite next time u answer i thought u were a troll...

i raise goats (anglonubian/damascus (baladi/shaami) mix in israel; i thought of boer (for meat and good in heat, they have two to three kids by their third breeding season)... ... u can synchronize the breeding and use sponges/and hormone shots to synchronize or u can just breed the one season... but in thailand i'm not sure when that would be... in israel its from august to november when the sun starts to set earlier and earlier which triggers the season... in tropics i know u can cycle some breeds twice but not all (the swiss types dont cycle twice really)...

u dont need pure but can go for 75% so can use local bucks to broaden the genetic pool a bit (a practice that many livestock farmers use since 'pure' is for show purposes only...vice versa (one or two outsider bucks to broaden the pool or AI , goat semen is not as expensive as cow semen i think ) (my edit)

actually i really only want a few for my own milk and fun purposes since i dont drink cows milk... i will have to look up sudan grass (do u have the latin name)... my goats get tiltan (clover) first cut, plus goat pellets in their last trimester (i cant pasture them, no space in petting zoo)... my males go to market but not as a business, people here who want goat prefer to buy a male at 4 mo's and put him to pasture and then slaughter, they dont like the feedlot flavour... (arab and yemenite jewish customers)...

i'm aiming for khorat in two years hopefully, but would love to talk goats more... if it bores other members, then u can pm me (private message ) ... but would like more info on breeding cycling showing etc in thailand...!!!

bina (petting zoo in israel)

Edited December 11, 2005 by bina

[ray23]

thanx frankie,

and i'm the one that asked about the place in khorat, so be polite next time u answer i thought u were a troll...

i raise goats (anglonubian/damascus (baladi/shaami) mix in israel; i thought of boer (for meat and good in heat, they have two to three kids by their third breeding season)... ... u can synchronize the breeding and use sponges/and hormone shots to synchronize or u can just breed the one season... but in thailand i'm not sure when that would be... in israel its from august to november when the sun starts to set earlier and earlier which triggers the season... in tropics i know u can cycle some breeds twice but not all (the swiss types dont cycle twice really)...

u dont need pure but can go for 75% so can use local bucks to broaden the genetic pool a bit (a practice that many livestock farmers use since 'pure' is for show purposes only...vice versa (one or two outsider bucks to broaden the pool or AI , goat semen is not as expensive as cow semen i think ) (my edit)

actually i really only want a few for my own milk and fun purposes since i dont drink cows milk... i will have to look up sudan grass (do u have the latin name)... my goats get tiltan (clover) first cut, plus goat pellets in their last trimester (i cant pasture them, no space in petting zoo)... my males go to market but not as a business, people here who want goat prefer to buy a male at 4 mo's and put him to pasture and then slaughter, they dont like the feedlot flavour... (arab and yemenite jewish customers)...

i'm aiming for khorat in two years hopefully, but would love to talk goats more... if it bores other members, then u can pm me (private message ) ... but would like more info on breeding cycling showing  etc in thailand...!!!

bina (petting zoo in israel)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Farming posts seem to interest most guys on the Issan baord, so I don't think anyone will get bored, even if we don't do it, it's interesting to hear about

[ShingDam]

Thanks everybody for the friendly responses

@bina

another name for sudan grass is sorghum-sudan but it isnt latin.

* About the breeding cycles

In thailand you can breed all around the year and most of my does's kids two time a year (although the rain season isnt the best time for get some because of worms) . Only the quality upsets me so. I really try hard to find Quality bucks but in the end i guess i will have to import some. Like my brother always told me, you cannot make pralines out of sh...

To all the people which thinks that i am crazy pls calm down, i still think about it .

It was really hard and cost me some money to get the knowledge i have, so i wont give up about goats. But like it is here in Thailand (i am sure it differs from israel a lot) the smallest problems become a very big act and the most of your energie is burned down to track with it.

I mean to find quality breeders, to find seed for goatfood, TO GET A VET IF YOU NEED ONE (i ve learned everything for myself, to inject medicine, to take bloodsamples, to cure sicknesses like a cold (exsp. in the rain time), or sore mouth and so on and stay in contact with a lab.

The biggest mistake is to think ohhh goats sound good why i shouldnt buy some for cut my lawn (they will destroy your trees and bushes first ! ). Or goats are a symbol for sexual potenzial they kid like hel_l, it must be a good bussiness - and yesss they kid like hel_l min 2 to max 6 kids a year per does - but dont forget about the care the medical supplements and that about 30% of the kids wont make it.

About AI (means make kids with semen injection from a elite buck)

This is very difficult to do here and you need expensive equipment like a nitrogen tank to store the frozen semen (-196 C !!), a insemination gun and so on whom wants to know http://www.goatworld.com/articles/ai/ai.shtml

It a horrible procedure, and you have to know the time your does is honey . If something is going wrong you spread 200 to 400 $ in the air.

At least you must like this kind of bussiness and you should love goats because they are very clever, sometimes really nasty animals.

I stay in a thai farmer group (related with my wife) and we had some members who breed cattles or horses and start up with goats, they all gave up but not because its a bad bussiness, it was because they expected the goats behaviour is like the cows one, but it wasnt.

@ bina because of your question about the location, i didnt meant to be rude, i did a mistake because the name of the village you spelled was right it was like so often how you speek this. And about the dogs it was true. My friend stays there (not far from me 3km) and him had a dog. During the time him stayed in Pattaya to stock up with farrang food and so on his brother in law (thai) really cared about his dog so much and ate it. My friend 73 years old was really really upset and i worried about him, because you know old people and animals can be a very close relationship.

sorry about my english again, but if i want talk i dont care to much about spelling

bye

Frankie

[Lourens]

It's really interesting to hear all these things Frank. I live in Buriram (not at the moment) and have been looking to find lamb or mutton. But only imported products are available. Goat is an excellent substitute. I grew up in South Africa and there goat was seen as the poor mans' mutton. Still is and you can find it in many buthcher shops. Sometimes they won't even tell you it's goat! Maybe one day we will be able to buy goat meat at the markets of Isaan.

[Ice Maiden]

Hello Frank welcome to

[ShingDam]

Woooow, a guy from south africa !!!!

They have the best NR. 1 Boer goats in the world and every goatlover sucks fingers after it. If only the shipping cost wouldnt be soooooo expensive.

Maybe you can pack a male goat baby in your bags and bring it to me i will pay you the flight ticket

[bina]

dont know but friends raise dorper sheep and he keeps his semen in the freezer in his house.... and we just use a sort of tube thingy not a gun for inserting.... they come in little pippettes but several people pool together cause u cant buy small amounts...

and the boers came to israel originally as frozen embroyos that were implanted as an ex kibbutznik from here now raises prize boers and he was one that started it... my boer doe was super expensive (for a petting zoo to buy) and she was on her third pregnancy which could have been a threesome but she was stolen along with all my others last year (goat rustling is very common here, an almost daily occurrence), all pregnant, all probably eaten on the arab holiday that comes after id al fitr.... anyway... boers are not good milkers , too many teats (6!)...

as for work: i know livestock: i;ve spent more than one dark cold night giving RH (food supplement) to a pregnant goat with toxemia (boers seem to be prone to that due to rapid weight gain, large embryos and multiple ones too), fixed broken leg (buck goat), injections, dont draw blood (vet comes out), delivered donkey foal stuck in mother, etc... and with really no special conditions so a lot of 'improv'... just the vets are good and give good instuctions over the phone (saves them time, and me money), and The Goat Handbook is great for detailed instructions also... trust me, i know farm work at its worst: things always happen in the middle of the night, when your child is home sick, and its raining and freezing cold and electricity fails so the vet cant see anything and the animal opened its stall and is wondering around in a couple acres of muddy land and doesnt want to be caught ... no romanticism for me about it...

not intrested at moment for goat for meat but for persnal local use (milk) and the kids go to market as a by product of the milk production...

would love more info: havent ever met an other goat person thru forum (oh, there is one, Thomas Merton, father in law raises goats forgot where but not issaan)... and i'm a goat addict...

so want more info on brucellosis, chlymydia, pasturella, CAE, Johnnes disease, CL (lot in israel very disgusting (abscesses) etc... specifically for goats: vets, goat shows in thailand??? vaccine schedules, parasites, etc.... in thailand.... thank you

bina

[Jai Dee]

Jayenram (from Surin) is into goats too... he's a regular poster on the Forum.

[normita]

I like goats but for bbq, i do not know how to breed and so on !

There is a restaurant in Korat, at Mike, PASINEE, we buy nearly every week some lamb parts for our house consumption from his place.

if you wanna sale some in korat see Mike at his place, he will purchase, butcher and sale to the farang community of here ! If you do goat cheese this would be the rigth place also for some sales...

We would appreciate and prefer from the frozen and expensive in the supermarkets !

[ShingDam]

Thank you,

maybe i want to get rid of some, but i have to know first what mike prefers ?

Do you have a phone number or email ?!

I have a stock about 30 animals now but some are bad nannies so they may be doomed

Frank

[bina]

hi sing dam

got your pm will respond

u didnt mention though about the brucelllosis etc... random chance (raises milk cows) i think did a list once for his area.... maybe u can give a list with prices addresses etc for medical etc lab fees, what they do etc... (here, required vacs are subsidized by the govt so very cheap) but any other vacs are expensive as is lab work medicines etc...

although good food is a good preventative for many pregnancy problems... etc

how much space do u have per goat (or are they pastured?)... where do they spend the night? where do they kid (its always in the middle of the night how unconvenient).??

do u separate the does and give bottle (automatic or hand) tothe kids? (prevent johnnes and CAE)? etc... maybe u could write up a mini handbook in eng. for goats in thailand or list things... start a new thread with the word goat (i started one dont know where it is now).... and organize lists... dont worry i wont steal your business i think for the moment (in two years +-) ill stick with milch does so anglo/nubi would be good i think (can i carry a baby goat on the plane? )

do u grow your own hay?? do u use goat pellets etc (here people do their own mixtures of corn, soy powder, oat, etc) , i buy 18% goat pellet for lactating sheep/goats and babies its expensive but easier to handle for me

[ShingDam]

Hello

@ bina

hmmm, dont be angry my time is a bit short (i have to care my animal na) and you ask a looooot of questions (my english is a bit short to and i dont want to sound to stupid to teach about that subject, even if i was a tutor in economics at the university yeah thats life).

I try to answer a bit later if i more relaxed, today i cleaned the area where my goats stay, and the (na now what is the farmer word for goat house, in thai i know it "kok") ok this kok i cleaned with a pressurepump and desinfected it.

This kok is ca. 1 m in the air and has the size about 144 sqm and the bottom is made out of wood, with about 1 to 2 cm distance so the shit falls down.

My goats have a land about 6000 sqm now (i know it isnt much) but i plan to buy a land about 60 to 70.000 sqm if i can get a good one. (After my &lt;deleted&gt;... visa passed)

Till then me or some workers take food from the streets, jungle, or i feed lamb (from the rice mill) or dry man (its a potato similar rootplant), if we have no time they can grass on the land, oh i forget, they enjoy banana leaves and are crazy about the bananas (then it is possible they kill me) but you can imagine how many banana trees you need to find them .

No, you cant bring a baby goat with you, they will kill it if you dont fullfill the restrictions for import animals (exspecially goats).

A book may not a bad idea, but i think the thais need it more. Maybe if i have time but i think you think i know to much and i guess my knowledge isnt enough to write a book, maybe it will be in some years.

And bina dont angry but a question to you:

Do you was already in thailand for a longer time ? Your questions about list with phonenumbers and this and that ..... i think people who stay longer already know what i mean. Even where i order pallets from this or that food ..... thailand is a nightmare in this way.

I still try to figure out what kind of food i could plant, with high protein to 20% and vitamins, which is easy to grow and which come again from itself and at least which will grow under our climate conditions.

And if you find that food, you will have to work min. 1 month if not more to find out where you can get the semen.

Mai mi, mai dai , mai lu ( )

[Ken]

Thank you,

maybe i want to get rid of some, but i have to know first what mike prefers ?

Do you have a phone number or email ?!

I have a stock about 30 animals now but some are bad nannies    so they may be doomed     

Frank

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome to the forum ShingDam. You can contact Mike at:

Pasinee

[bina]

hey frankie,

yeah i understand, i've been int he middle east long enough to know that everything goes slowly and not much organization (just word of mouth from others doing the same thing)... now people call me for advice (!)....

bananas?? didnt think of that as goat food actually but bananas are grasses so it could work....

still, i know htere are govt extension services of sorts int thailand. we found info for fish raising (in thai)... there are handbooks for buffalo and cows.... so there must be lists (that u would write up from your knowlege frankie) , prices (general), names of suppliers (probably change every year like here, i'm n constant search for hay/pellets since we are small time and the big timers grow /make their own (they own the fields etc)...just like all the other small growers so we trade info where to get hay/pellets, medicines, etc...

i think for me anglo/nubia /local mix are best for milk since the anglos need less water/feed per liter of milk then say, swiss /european varieties (which provide lots of milk but are for large scale operations... random chance said once that the cow milk company (the big one forgot the name) was doing milch goats (zaanan) from imports...

surely there is a government program for : hoof and mouth, brucellosis, and other zoonotic (pass over to humans) diseases, even if not very well inforced ... ??

thanx for giving any and all info... i still have time to research out as much as possible, and am not thinking of big money just subsistence level /personal use...

please stay in contact, this is fascinating for me....

[Nignoy]

Thanks everybody for the friendly responses 

@bina   

another name for sudan grass is sorghum-sudan but it isnt latin.

* About the breeding cycles

In thailand you can breed all around the year and most of my does's kids two time  a year (although the rain season isnt the best time for get some because of worms) . Only the quality upsets me so. I really try hard to find Quality bucks but in the end i guess i will have to import some. Like my brother always told me, you cannot make pralines out of sh...

To all the people which thinks that i am crazy pls calm down, i still think about it .

It was really hard and cost me some money to get the knowledge i have, so i wont give up about goats. But like it is here in Thailand (i am sure it differs from israel a lot) the smallest problems become a very big act and the most of your energie is burned down to track with it.

I mean to find quality breeders, to find seed for goatfood, TO GET A VET IF YOU NEED ONE (i ve learned everything for myself, to inject medicine, to take bloodsamples, to cure sicknesses like a cold (exsp. in the rain time), or sore mouth and so on and stay in contact with a lab.

The biggest mistake is to think ohhh goats sound good why i shouldnt buy some for cut my lawn (they will destroy your trees and bushes first !  ). Or goats are a symbol for sexual potenzial they kid like hel_l, it must be a good bussiness - and yesss they kid like hel_l min 2 to max 6 kids a year per does - but dont forget about the care the medical supplements and that about 30% of the kids wont make it.

About AI (means make kids with semen injection from a elite buck)

This is very difficult to do here and you need expensive equipment like a nitrogen tank to store the frozen semen (-196 C !!), a insemination gun and so on whom wants to know http://www.goatworld.com/articles/ai/ai.shtml

It a horrible procedure, and you have to know the time your does is honey  . If something is going wrong you spread 200 to 400 $ in the air.

At least you must like this kind of bussiness and you should love goats because they are very clever, sometimes really nasty animals.

I stay in a thai farmer group (related with my wife) and we had some members who breed cattles or horses and start up with goats, they all gave up but not because its a bad bussiness, it was because they expected the goats behaviour is like the cows one, but it wasnt.

@ bina because of your question about the location, i didnt meant to be rude, i did a mistake because the name of the village you spelled was right    it was like so often how you speek this. And about the dogs it was true. My friend stays there (not far from me 3km) and him had a dog. During the time him stayed in Pattaya to stock up with farrang food and so on his brother in law (thai) really cared about his dog so much and ate it. My friend 73 years old was really really upset and i worried about him, because you know old people and animals can be a very close relationship. 

sorry about my english again, but if i want talk i dont care to much about spelling

bye

Frankie

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think there is plenty of scope for good semen stocks for artificial insemination, here in australia or in germany, if you email me in english or german does not matter can maybe put you in touch with reputable zoological goat breeders here and in europe , nignoy

[ShingDam]

About AI:

I am sure you can get high quality, exspecially in Australia, but i meant the process to inseminate isnt so easy (for me).

@ bina About Anglo Nubians, i guess they may give more milk in your area then in Thailand, the favourite breeds for milk is the saanen goat ( or zaanen like you wrote).

Not far from here is a farm with about 30000 saanen, owned by the young brother of the Cattle baron of thailand. They produce thousend of liters of milk for the international market. (By the way him invested 300 Million Baht !!!, to set this all up) I really dont play in that liga

With Johnsens, or CAE i haven t any problems till now, tomorrow my test results will come from the lab ( 4 weeks !!! i hope the blood samples still was good when they checked it) so i will know more.

Hoove trimming is a nightmare for me, and i will cull every goat which makes me crazy about that or minimum i wont breed with it (her).

I guess later i will get rid of this problem. If you buy goats look for strong legs, so you wont have the problem with hoove trimming if the ground no toooooo soft.

Today i got great news about goat food (top secret if till i know it works really out )

Bye bye

Frank

[ShingDam]

Hello

ok i phoned the doc, and him told me that the results not finished yet.

I got angry and ask him if him did the blood samples inside a soup (gui tiau) and ate it or what.

3 days later:

after a lot of preasure i have the results at least, everything ok, no problem about CAE, Jonsons, and so on. Only a bit copper defizit. So i will balance this out with minerals supplement.

Nowadays i start to plant new food. So i am busy.

Thanks for advise!

Frank

[bina]

really?? copper deficit? maybe when u grow your food u should do an analysis of the soils to see whats in the hay afterwards ( i dont bother for the few goats/sheep i have but if i had a large dairy/meat herd, definately would send soil and hay for analysis... i know it can be done in thailand, at least the soil part)

what about selenium? do u have to do vitamin E/selenium in thailand to the mothers and babies?? we dont, 'weak kid disease/white muscle syndrome'doesnt happen here really...

they get salt block with copper/ sheep get w/o copper as do horses... am using regualr salt blocks not the loose salt...

unfortuantely we have lots of CAE and johnnes here in small herds and no one culls or tests......as for caseous lymphoma (CL) ... no testing in israel and it is rampant and awful (thats like cheesy disease with the abscesses with white cheesy stuff in it, external, no problem, internal it ruins the organs etc, slow death: skinny weight lose , not thrifty animals.... hate it and cant get rid of it once it gets in your yard)...

[ShingDam]

hmmm sound arkward external abszesses i had already with 2 or 3 goats, i decided from case to case to give an antibiotic (oxtra) or not.

I had further 2 goats, they became like you discribed, slimm, slimmer, slimmest.

I didnt knew what they had, no diarrhoe, only very depressed and they ate little.

I gave Vit B12 (metabolism) , B Complex, Vit ADE, (the Selenium i dont inject anymore because i have my loose minerals and there is all in it (only i found out that goats could need the double copper than sheeps).

Ok with one it worked and her still stay (i was very happy when her start to fight the others ).

The other one (got it after kidding) died. First i was ashamed if my goats died because i though iam unable to care, but i read a lot about other goatowners in America, Australia, New Zealand and found out that it is normal and happens from time to time.

A (new) trick (for me ) is to mix an egg with 2 teaspoons of honey, and a cup of warm water, i take the mix in a class coke bottle and forced her to eat.

After 1 week . It works very well.

About my import of goats: I need if i want to do this some people who really want to start with goats and have an interest of import (foolblood Saanen (Diary goats), Anglo Nubians (Diary - meat goats), Boers (meat goats ) the best quality you can get.

The reason is (the goats arent too expensive) but the shipping cost are very high, so i have to import the maximum of animals that the cost per head is the lower. (cuz fixcostdegression, min. 30.000 per head incl. everything)

There would be place for about 30 animals (6 to 8 month old) and i would take about 10 to 12.

If anybody read this and have an really interest (the formalities i will do, there will be no problems) contact me.

Bye Frank

[bina]

frank:

for the external abscesses: separate from herd; disinfect area; open abscess and squeeze out, wash out w/ salt water (using syringe), iodine solution... then use penstrep (pen30 also good) any of the penicillins types, not oxy (thats better for uterus and blood related stuff --like horn breakage, prophylactic after hard delivery etc, )...

CL is very very contagious and lasts in the yard too if the abscess breaks and the stuff oozes out.... internally it causes a lot of damage and u feed and feed but the goat just goes (waste of money and time), especially after delivery when she's stressed.... better to cull immediately... we sprinkle lime on the yard or use bromosept in area where we clean abscess or see the gooey stuff...unforutunately, when i buy a goat i dont always see the abscess and people here dont bother with this... in the states they do culture/blood work... have some info on that too if u want

before birth/after delivery 'down' : that could be toxemia/eclampsia ... we buy something called RH but it is really like what u made (sugar/high protein) : also karo syrup mix; it gets the bodly going again as they stop eating.... have had much experience with that with the boer due to her heaviness and twins... could email u some articles if u want...

yes, there are always 'sudden deaths' i also use to feel that i was a bad caretaker but have learned that in 10 goats if one dies, its awful, in 200 goats, no one says anything cause it kind of disappears in the numbers... i take every illness and death very personally.... but accidents happen and sometimes by the time u see the illness on the animal, its too late (my alpaca female 5000$!!!) died of chronic non symptomatic pneumonia, she died in my arms... i didnt see any signs until we had high heat and she suffered w/shortness of breath... two hours later that was it... she also by the way had CL that had gotten to her lungs.... we did the autopsy on sight since the labs are slow (and screw things up also, not just in thailand)...

i happen to really dislike the zaanen goats, just a personal preference thing, i like goats with long ears (go figure)... will not be able to invest for a long amount of time but if/when i get there, i would go for a doe or two for sure.. with breeding back plan (i just want milk, so can give the kidlings back for the price, or for breeding price at stud... whatever)... although my anglonubs are single kidders... no twins... the baladi (damascus local) twin a lot no problems like the boers>

[ShingDam]

@bina

Thank you very much for your advise and kindly help.

I will contact you later, beause now I AM very sick (unusually cold here the last week) and really i have to slow down as well.

Which kind of goat is the best for a moisture (about 5 to 6 month) and a very dry clima (about 3 to 4 month) other month so 50/50.

Bye

frank

[bina]

frank im still looking for the sulphur name and doses but today was awful:

windy cold and two large pet dogs got in to our patagonian cavias and killed a few so was involved with police etc... fortunately most of our pet dogs are afraid of goats (have horns)...

feel better... hope u got my very long email.... will ask vet here in forum maybe she can research the thai brands ... or u can ask random chances ... u can pm him also... like i said he has a milk cow farm done remember where so try him (he's closer htan i am 5555)...

random if u are reading this: frank seems to have (from his description /diagnaoses ) a coccidiousis outbreak in his does/and babies only... he needs sulphur drugs for best treatment and also vitamin b1 thiamine to inject during the treatment (sulpher depletes this vitamin in goats so must be supplemented especially ifi it is coccidiousis which causes nutrition imbalances and death).... any help????

bina

frank, for goat breeds, only what i recommended.... create your own strain using local and crossbreeding for results... maybe if/when i arrive u will have done all the 'dirty' work....

[RamdomChances]

frank im still looking for the sulphur name and doses but today was awful:

windy cold and two large pet dogs got in to our patagonian cavias and killed a few so was involved with police etc... fortunately most of our pet dogs are afraid of goats (have horns)...

feel better... hope u got my very long email.... will ask vet here in forum maybe she can research the thai brands ... or u can ask random chances ... u can pm him also... like i said he has a milk cow farm done remember where so try him (he's closer htan i am 5555)...

random if u are reading this: frank seems to have (from his description /diagnaoses )  a coccidiousis outbreak in his does/and babies only... he needs sulphur drugs for best treatment and also vitamin b1 thiamine to inject during the treatment (sulpher depletes this vitamin in goats so must be supplemented especially ifi it is coccidiousis which causes nutrition imbalances and death).... any help???? 

bina

frank, for goat breeds, only what i recommended.... create your own strain using local and crossbreeding for results... maybe if/when i arrive u will have done all the 'dirty' work....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi just read this, mabye you should ask one of the mod's to change the title to something with "goats" in as then people would actually know it's a "goat " topic not just a "hello" topic

Sorry I dont have any experiance with "coccidiousis" so I cant help you but from these symtoms

I had further 2 goats, they became like you discribed, slimm, slimmer, slimmest.

It could be many things there is'nt a big problem in thailand with Johnsens, CAE, brucellosis, but we do have problems with tick born diseases (Babesiosis and anaplasmosis) allong with most other parasitic diseases. Shindam, do you inject with Ivormec?, you should do this regularly, you cant use the milk or meat for 45 days though we usually inject when we dry the cow off before it gives birth. For Babesiosis and anaplasmosis "Berenil" is very good although if they have recently had a blood check it SHOULD of picked that up

Berenil from intervet http://products.intervet.com/products/prod...es/52_24829.asp I dont think they sell direct to the public though, we vaccinate against hoof and mouth (free from the goverment).

The salt licks are better than loose powder IMO, we give both as the salt licks are more for minerals and the powder for vitamines, we inject ADE prior to them giving birth and a Selinium mixture just after birth, "Cartrosal" is good for a "pick me up" and "biovite" no withdrawal periods either.

There should be local (ampour) and district(changwat) Department of livestock (I forget the thai name) with vet's , the standerds are not generally very high though also there are what I term "para vet's' they do mainly AI for cows (they go on a month or two course) but will have all the AI equipment. For medical supplies if they do dairy cows in your area, the dairy's usually stock most medicens or may be able to order for you. Failing that you can try here GISS Marketing http://www.giss.co.th/catalog.php some medicen but mainly vet equipment (including all the AI stuff)

For food, "man" cassava is pretty good and you can use the leaves as well, if you want to plant forrage then ruizzi/centro is supposed to be pretty good, or "yaa jumbo" but thats better for "cut and carry" IMO for local advice on growing "stuff" try here Animal Nutrition Division, they have branches all over thailand

http://www.dld.go.th/nutrition/Eng/model3/index.html

I was just going to link to the "Ensiled Cassava Leafs" post but just relised the OP is the same person so a lot of what I've said is already there

RC

[bina]

thanx random,

i will also check out those last two diseases....

i did send him an email with most of what u recommended also.... but the thailand part i couldnt help him with obviously....thanx... i always save your posts with the medical/pharma. info in thailand, and the agro links too.......maybe u should become livestock advisor in the pet vet forum along with udon?

most of the goat stuff i've given him thru his personal email.... i guess u all dont want pages of goat care!!!!!!!!!

maybe the mods can rescramble the thread to move the goat specific part to a new thread or something...

[Rigger]

OK who is going to sell me a breading pair of goats so I can have a cheap replacement to lamb. I would intend leaving them out on a block of land with cattle not very intrested in trying to breed them to sell. Or maybe a few young ones to fatten up. Any one know of where I can buy them near Khon kean or Nongbaulamphu

Edited January 1, 2006 by Rigger

[ShingDam]

Sorry to all who though i am a bad guy because i didnt response i had technical problems to go online.

Hmmm now i am on the way to come down, but its really hard to get the right medicine, the government give some for free but mostly what i dont need. And cows and goats not similar.

About the grass the ruizzi grass for goats is absolutely the badest choice you can do i guess this was the cause of my problems now. Yes i use Ivomec F all 3 month.

I got Sulphur Powder and my goats eat it little by little (expspecially when feed cassava you should feed sulphur) for cows its not so serious because they are more big (hydro-cyanic-acid!) sulphur neutralize it Gramm to Gramm.

Now i start to seed the really stuff Gliricidia, Leucaena, Corn, and Guinea Grass, hmm i bought Jamboo but i know nothing about it and how it is for goats, i will check it out.

@RamdomChances

Hmmm, i dont know much about AI but can you tell me if the local "pseudo"vets use the oldfashion technics or the modern technic, because if they know the old method they could inseminate my goats as well.

thanks a lot for all the help (exspecially to bina)

Frank