Cant Decide Between Automatic Or Manual Scooter

[ClareQuilty]

It just depends on what you like. I can't stand automatics, but apparently many people like them. They just drive so badly compared to a a regular bike - they seem imbalanced, and it is very annoying not to have control of the gearing, also the seating position is somewhat ridiculous. Though I suppose it suits young girls who want to wear high heels, or people who really need to avoid getting their trousers/shoes splashed in rainy season.

In fact when I go on holiday to a tourist zone most rental places now have only automatics, though once in a while I can persuade the owner to dig up an old regular bike for me. Nevertheless, most of the time I do have to drive an automatic for a few days or a week every few months, so its not like I haven't given them a chance. Every time I long to get rid of the thing.

Obviously the clutchless click-through ones aren't as enjoyable to drive as a bike with clutch, but they sure beat the autos for me, and because you don't have the left hand-brake autos have, you have actually more potential for a free hand for SMSing or drinking a Coke.

Edited March 1, 2012 by ClareQuilty

[CMX]

Obviously the clutchless click-through ones aren't as enjoyable to drive as a bike with clutch, but they sure beat the autos for me, and because you don't have the left hand-brake autos have, you have actually more potential for a free hand for SMSing or drinking a Coke. ~ CQ

Yeah! One of the most important considerations about the controls on a motorbike is the ease with which I can have a smoke or cell phone in my free hand, especially important in heavy traffic.

But to be serious, I do agree with the control issue, holding that clutch and gears give me the best solution. I place this clutch-free option as being cheap, however, efficient (in spite of the chain issue), and limited: Double gear shifting or getting into first immediately are not possible, so for city traffic, I picked an auto, because necessary power is there when you need it.

(Much of what we're discussing here, I suppose, has to do with our comfort with previous experience.)

Edited March 2, 2012 by CMX

[scorpio1945]

If you have ever ridden a real MC or plan to upgrade to a real MC, go with the automatic, You may have a accident in an emergency trying to learn the back-wards shifting pattern or have to unlearn it when you go to a real MC.After riding MCs for over forty years, the scooter shifting pattern drove me nuts and I never got used to it.

[wantan]

If you have ever ridden a real MC or plan to upgrade to a real MC, go with the automatic, You may have a accident in an emergency trying to learn the back-wards shifting pattern or have to unlearn it when you go to a real MC.After riding MCs for over forty years, the scooter shifting pattern drove me nuts and I never got used to it.

As alexpoker is new to riding "real" motorbikes (IIRR) i would suggest to not buy a full automatic. It can be confusing to change between bikes when one has a clutch lever and one has a rear brake lever instead. In critical situations you can easily get confused by it.

[MaiChai]

The 'clutchless click through' actually has a traditional clutch that is operated by clever leverage in the gear shifter. Thats why the gear shift needs to be pressed quite hard. It also has a centrifugal clutch that engages as the revs rise. So two clutch mechanisms.

I am not a great fans of autos too; the lack of response from the throttle, poor fuel economy and high reving does not compete with a manual clutch for matching gearing to driving conditions. However you have to admire the advances that have been made with modern autos, especially in hiding and overcoming some of the deficiencies.

Whats seems quite clear with modern small bikes is to give a good experience while driving down ever rising costs. So plastic replaces metal parts and the metal parts that do remain use less and less metal. So we end up with bikes that are not as durable and sturdy as older models, despite the technology and fuel improvements.

Going back to the semi auto step through: the centrafugal clutch that operates when you open the throttle. The way this works is fairly ugly. You have spring loaded paws that fly out against a steel cup. The brake material paws have to grip on the steel cup. The way this works is not elegant and maybe as ugly as how a cvt works?

So the semi auto step through isnt as elegant as perceived and not necessarily better than a cvt design. However the greater use of steel in its drivetrain makes it more durable and longer lasting and the manual gearing allows better matching revs to conditions and thus better fuel economy.

The cvt auto is definitly much safer in city driving but because of its fast acceleration, low weight and manoverability I see Thai drivers take much riskier moves getting round the traffic.

Edited March 3, 2012 by MaiChai

[dave_boo]

The family's owned all sorts of scooters.

The Wave 125 remains my favourite if I have to get on one simply because it seems to have the pegs in the 'right' place and they have room for my duck feet. It also seems to repsond best to inputs without as much of the lag that the automatics have. The shifting is not really an issue as the engine is torquey enough that you can work in the gear you are until you realise that it's time to shift.

The Click is rubbish in my opinion. Absolutely no guts and just feels cheap.

The Airblade is the bike I'll grab if the Wave is in use or in the front of the queue since I'm too lazy to move the other bikes out of the way. Actually a decent bike for a fully auto. Its suspension seems to be better and other than the smallish floorboards is comfortable.

The wife's PCX is a really nice bike, but a couple of issues turned me off from liking it. The stop start is a bit slow for me when taking off at a light, but simply twisting the throttle a bit early wakes the engine up (of course you could just switch off the feature but why do that when you've paid for it?). The floor boards only leave my pinky toe hanging off (which is 1 1/2 toes less than the other bikes) and are room enough to move back and forth. The high beam indicator is bloody bright; I could actually read the name brand stitching on my shirt from it! Really distratcting when riding at night. I also hate that hump in the seat; you just can't seem to find a good position with it. The power is also good with it getting to an indicated 85 rather quickly and slowly climbing from there with this fat ass on it.

I've ridden the cousin's Sonic; an ok bike with a real clutch but it felt too small. I like my old CBR 150 better even though it wasn't that much more bike; at least it felt like more.

[elliss]

auto every time,

a lot easier .

[mjj]

Scooter are meant to be easy run arounds, so auto is best for me. The problem I have with the wave is that the gear selector can be a bit stubborn at time and wont change. I'm thinking when I have come to a stop and want to go into neutral. Sometimes I have to rock the bike backwards and forwards to get it in. Autos are easy and to me that is what scootering is all about.

[naboo]

As alexpoker is new to riding "real" motorbikes (IIRR) i would suggest to not buy a full automatic. It can be confusing to change between bikes when one has a clutch lever and one has a rear brake lever instead. In critical situations you can easily get confused by it.

Equally problematic.... the gearing mechanisms on clutched bikes and semi-automatics is the opposite way around, meaning there could be a wrong shift of gear at any moment.

I guess the Wave automatic would be the only option to avoid both of these issues. I personally think its easier to switch between a fully auto and a clutched than a semi-auto and clutched.

[jackcorbett]

A small bike is really for convenience - and auto is the most convenient. Chains need oiling and cleaning and changing gear is no fun if you don't have power to make it worth the effort.

And most autos also have space under the seat for storage and handy things like bag hooks.

Last year I would have recommended the Nouvo 135 as the best of the bunch, but now the best scooter must be the new Honda PCX 150.

And buying new makes sense, as prices are not much more than good second hand and you get a guarantee.

But whatever you buy - also get a decent helmet and gloves ... just look at every other scooter on the street and you'll see the evidence that it's been down the road on its side.

How do we know that the Honda PCX is now the best of the bunch? No one has been on one yet. It could well be the 125 c.c. PCX will turn out to be better. Perhaps the coming 150 will turn out to be far less fuel efficient.

My personal feeling is that either the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance or the PCX are the finest out there. And at some point, being the best of the best will not justify the price one must pay for having it. My personal feeling is BMW motorcycles are the best motorcycles one can buy. But I don't need to have what a BMW offers to me here in Pattaya. For that matter the Yamaha T Max is no doubt a terrific motorcycle....but here in Pattaya it's way overkill. It might belong on American highways but it's too heavy to be as agreeable a mount as the much smaller Nouvo Elegance. And at 535,000 baht?

When the new 150 c.c. PCX hits 90,000 baht which it probably will, one has to put it in a different category altogether. At this point one has to compare it to CBR 150's, even 250's and baby Ninjas. And why not? You have good storage under the seat, but you don't have that hook in front of you for carrying an extra 2 or 3 bags the way you do with a Nouvo Elegance. You could have a dealer install one for you but I would think that because of the design the bags will hang too flat and tend to fall off. You don't have mounting hooks for carrying things behind you the way you do with an Elegance or for that matter so many other small bikes. Now one can argue that one can put a trunk behind the seat...but I can do that with a CBR or a Ninja or for that matter any other motorcycle. I can also put saddlebags on a motorcycle. After all when I had my BMW''s I could put all kinds of things in the saddle bags and the tank bag.

Also....we don't know a thing about the up and coming Yamaha Nouvo Elegance with fuel injection for that matter. So if we were to claim the PCX 150 is now the best before we even get a look at it we then have to compare it to the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance fuel injected 135 which we have also not seen yet nor have we seen its specifications. Let us keep in mind that Yamaha has always had a faster bike than Honda respresenting its top dog against Honda's top dog in this segment. Should we expect Yamaha to suddenly decide to become the underdog? I would think that Yamaha can pull another horsepower or two out of this engine because they already get more h.p. out of the fuel injected 125 c.c. XMAX it markets elsewhere in the world than it is presently getting out of its 135 c.c. Elegance. And considering my carburated Elegance will already equal the 125 c.c. PCX I would think a new fuel injected 135 c.c. Elegance is going to get better fuel economy than a PCX that has grown 20 % larger (150 minus 125/125)

If one were to compare these bikes to fighter planes, we just might be comparing a quicker accelerating Elegance to a slower accelerating PCX that will also not turn as quickly and not be able to turn with it. Which would win? Which one would be the choice of the aces?

I for one like both bikes. I don't like Clicks and Mios, Hayate's, Finos, rinky dink Chinese copies, and Vespas. I think a Harley Davidson is a great bike for what it is. It has to be and it's got character. But so has a BMW. One type of rider will prefer a Harley but the kind of person who prefers speed and ultimate handling is going to go for the BMW. That's the way I look at this. The kind of person who likes Harleys is going to go for the PCX whereas the kind of person who enjoys the high performance of a BMW is going to prefer the smaller, nimbler Elegance.

[wana]

A small bike is really for convenience - and auto is the most convenient. Chains need oiling and cleaning and changing gear is no fun if you don't have power to make it worth the effort.

And most autos also have space under the seat for storage and handy things like bag hooks.

Last year I would have recommended the Nouvo 135 as the best of the bunch, but now the best scooter must be the new Honda PCX 150.

And buying new makes sense, as prices are not much more than good second hand and you get a guarantee.

But whatever you buy - also get a decent helmet and gloves ... just look at every other scooter on the street and you'll see the evidence that it's been down the road on its side.

When the new 150 c.c. PCX hits 90,000 baht which it probably will, one has to put it in a different category altogether. At this point one has to compare it to CBR 150's, even 250's and baby Ninjas.

i think you hit the nail on the head this time, the new pcx is in a class of its own if it comes in at 90k

theres no point comparing it to scooters like the mio or elegance or wave in the 45-54k bracket because

its gone so far over budget for a scooter that it would want to better to justify itself

[karlos]

Price wise it's comparable to the CBR150 and 250's but feature and ergonomic wise it's still comparable to the Elegance at nearly half the price...

I won't lie, i do like the look of those PCX's and the new 150 will be a cracking little run about for those who don't care about value for money, different bikes for different folks

Me.... I'm a stingy bugger my money will be on the new 135i Elegance when it hit's Thailand, i love it's new instrument lay out and that cracking 135cc lump will only get better with the addition of injection

[Gweiloman]

Price wise it's comparable to the CBR150 and 250's but feature and ergonomic wise it's still comparable to the Elegance at nearly half the price...

I won't lie, i do like the look of those PCX's and the new 150 will be a cracking little run about for those who don't care about value for money, different bikes for different folks

Me.... I'm a stingy bugger my money will be on the new 135i Elegance when it hit's Thailand, i love it's new instrument lay out and that cracking 135cc lump will only get better with the addition of injection

What I would like to know (apart from the cost) is which bike would be more suitable for long distance riding, say from Bkk to Ubon or something like that?

[MaiChai]

They all sound expensive compared to the 80k brand new Kubota tractor the gf's uncle bought.

I dont buy new bikes in Thailand. I have a good way of buying bikes and i will stick to that.

[jackcorbett]

Price wise it's comparable to the CBR150 and 250's but feature and ergonomic wise it's still comparable to the Elegance at nearly half the price...

I won't lie, i do like the look of those PCX's and the new 150 will be a cracking little run about for those who don't care about value for money, different bikes for different folks

Me.... I'm a stingy bugger my money will be on the new 135i Elegance when it hit's Thailand, i love it's new instrument lay out and that cracking 135cc lump will only get better with the addition of injection

What I would like to know (apart from the cost) is which bike would be more suitable for long distance riding, say from Bkk to Ubon or something like that?

There is no doubt in my mind that either the PCX or the Nouvo Elegance is going to be able to do the job so long as you keep off the expressways for the most part. I look at it this way. When I was 17 I bicycled through England and Scotland for 1500 miles or so and after that I thought a 50 c.c. small motorcycle would have been great fun. Both of these bikes are watercooled. I sense no stress on either engine so long as one cruises 95 kph or less. You don't have the power to mix it up with the cars on the four lane highways. You do with a Honda CBR 250 and larger, however. But.....even driving my Honda Civic I've had cars pass me driving more than 100 kph on the right shoulder of the road. This is unbelieveable, it's beyond stupidity. Needless to say, the limiting factor in my opinion is not whether the Nouvo Elegance or PCX is up to it or not, it's the uttter stupidity and rudeness of so many drivers all around me that would put me off from driving a bike all over Thailand combined with the absolute unwillingness of the police to do what needs to be done.

[wana]

Price wise it's comparable to the CBR150 and 250's but feature and ergonomic wise it's still comparable to the Elegance at nearly half the price...

I won't lie, i do like the look of those PCX's and the new 150 will be a cracking little run about for those who don't care about value for money, different bikes for different folks

Me.... I'm a stingy bugger my money will be on the new 135i Elegance when it hit's Thailand, i love it's new instrument lay out and that cracking 135cc lump will only get better with the addition of injection

What I would like to know (apart from the cost) is which bike would be more suitable for long distance riding, say from Bkk to Ubon or something like that?

i have done bkk to rayong and back multiple times on the elegance ,i had the throttle pinned wide open crusing at 110-120 km amost all the way on the expressways and i was unable to get it to overheat ,explode,breakdown or die

actualy the er6n gets a lot hotter

im convinced that 135cc engine is bombproof and could go anywhere if you dont mind taking it on the highways and danger roads , i went everwhere on mine and it never skipped a beat with just new oil ever 4000km

[poanoi]

Well i got both a chopper and have/had a few semi automatics (shift but no clutch)

i don't recall any confusion, or perhaps there was a couple of days ?

but anyway my feet seem to remember what the deal is the moment i sit down,

i never think about it.

A full auto feel a bit awkward tho, but i can manage and it would perhaps be a non issue after a couple of weeks,

pick one that is comfortable to sit on, and has good acceleration & brakes within your budget

[ClareQuilty]

They all sound expensive compared to the 80k brand new Kubota tractor the gf's uncle bought.

I dont buy new bikes in Thailand. I have a good way of buying bikes and i will stick to that.

I couldn't agree more! No need to ever have more than ten grand in a bike, and I've got some good ones I only paid 5-6K for.

[wana]

They all sound expensive compared to the 80k brand new Kubota tractor the gf's uncle bought.

I dont buy new bikes in Thailand. I have a good way of buying bikes and i will stick to that.

No need to ever have more than ten grand in a bike, and I've got some good ones I only paid 5-6K for.

there are many reasons to spend more than 10 k on a bike never mind 5-6k

in fact ,there are many reasons why you should spend that much on safety gear alone

[Gary A]

I prefer the belt drive automatics for two reasons. One, especially for me is safety. My feet are in front of me and not between the engine and whatever could possibly "T" bone me. If you have noticed, you see quite a few Thais missing a foot or a leg.

The other reason is maintenance. My wife has replaced two chains and a set of sprockets while a friend's Scoopy has even more kilometers on it and still has the original belt.

[jackcorbett]

I prefer the belt drive automatics for two reasons. One, especially for me is safety. My feet are in front of me and not between the engine and whatever could possibly "T" bone me. If you have noticed, you see quite a few Thais missing a foot or a leg.

The other reason is maintenance. My wife has replaced two chains and a set of sprockets while a friend's Scoopy has even more kilometers on it and still has the original belt.

Gary....You hit the nail on the head. But don't you get tired of having to say the same message over and over again? And refuting those who would mislead those who don't know better by their completely unfounded remarks about automatics being unreliable? I know I do so here's my solution for everyone who wants to save a lot of time. This way anytime anyone of us wants to point someone in the right direction all we have to do is to post this image and Voila...mission accomplished.

[naboo]

Most of the automatics I've seen look like they're in a terrible state after 4 or 5 years. All my friends who have had trouble with bikes have been riding an auto. Waves and Dreams go on and on and on and on and on and....

Having said that, my next bike will be auto.

[wana]

Most of the automatics I've seen look like they're in a terrible state after 4 or 5 years. All my friends who have had trouble with bikes have been riding an auto. Waves and Dreams go on and on and on and on and on and....

Having said that, my next bike will be auto.

any bike will look like crap thats been out in the thai weather 4-5 years,bikes are plastic and they wil fade and lose there shine ,regardless of whether its auto or manual

the rain is nasty and polluted, ,autos are the future and will eventualy replace chains and sprockets on scooters

anyway ,after 5 years is it not time to replace a scooter anyway ?

[transam]

Any bike, proper servicing is the key to longevity, especially auto's.

[karlos]

Most of the automatics I've seen look like they're in a terrible state after 4 or 5 years. All my friends who have had trouble with bikes have been riding an auto. Waves and Dreams go on and on and on and on and on and....

Having said that, my next bike will be auto.

There are plenty of semi-autos where owners beat them into the ground with no maintenance too.

All bikes will show faults if treated poorly, regardless of the drive. If anything there's less to go wrong on the modern CVT autos compared to a semi-auto or manual bike

Nearly 30,000km on my 1 year old Yamaha Mio 125 and it's still on original everything, with the exception of tyres, pads, hub oil engine filter and engine oil

Edited March 5, 2012 by karlos

[eek]

Autos are brilliant for city/town driving. Im sure many will have said this already. Just so easy. For me thats when an auto comes into its own.

However, for out of town driving, its hysterllically awful.. last year I took mine on a 3 day trip which including Mae Salong..HAHAHA..the only way to get it up those altitudes was to slalom!

Boils down to what you most want to use it for. Ideally a manual AND an auto are best, but go with what driving conditions you would face the most.

[wana]

Autos are brilliant for city/town driving. Im sure many will have said this already. Just so easy. For me thats when an auto comes into its own.

However, for out of town driving, its hysterllically awful.. last year I took mine on a 3 day trip which including Mae Salong..HAHAHA..the only way to get it up those altitudes was to slalom!

Boils down to what you most want to use it for. Ideally a manual AND an auto are best, but go with what driving conditions you would face the most.

if you cant get up a hill you need more torque ,its not as simple as saying an auto cant do it

there are autos that will fly up hills ,i was going up a steep hill last week side by side with a uniformed cop of all people riding a big suzuki burgman auto scooter

with a racing pipe on it

i had a passeger around 50-60 kilos and he was on his own but the super scooter was able to keep up with an er6n for the best part

[eek]

Really Wana? Mae Salong has an elevation of approximately 1800 metres (5900 ft). Id pay to see a scooter fly up that (particarly with a 50-60kg guy on the back!)

(Btw, no sarcasm there..thats actually impressive what you said )

Edited March 5, 2012 by eek

[wana]

Really Wana? Mae Salong has an elevation of approximately 1800 metres (5900 ft). Id pay to see a scooter fly up that (particarly with a 50-60kg guy on the back!)

(Btw, no sarcasm there..thats actually impressive what you said )

if a manual scooter can get up there ,an auto will also go up

do you think people in automatic cars cant go up hills as well ?

Edited March 5, 2012 by wana

[eek]

If they cant, they could get towed up by your motorbike!