Bangkok's 'Hitler Chic' Trend Riles Tourists, Israeli Envoy

[thaibeachlovers]

What does the international press say about this absurd new fashion trend in Bangkok? There does not seem to be much on the Internet but I found this:

Hitler T-shirts are a Nazi trend for Thai youth

VILE T-shirts featuring cartoons of Nazi monster Adolf Hitler have become the latest fashion must-have in Thailand.

Boutiques in the capital Bangkok have begun selling the garments showing the dictator as a Teletubby, panda or Ronald McDonald.

The tops, costing between £4 and £7.50, have sparked outrage with visitors.

Read more: http://www.thesun.co...Thai-youth.html

The Sun is a scumbag UK tabloid, same as The Daily Mail; they like to print and sensationalise stories like this as they appeal to the dumbarses who read their newspapers. It is pointless using this scab-sheet as representative of the international press.

The Sun is a scumbag UK tabloid?

Really?

Don't you miss page 3?

The most hilarious thing the Sun ever did, was make the Page 3 bimbos utter profound sayings as if they actually had a world opinion. PC gone mad!

[Scott]

An off-topic has been removed. This thread is NOT about the Israeli-Palestinian situation.

[RedQualia]

A bit torn. On the one hand, I want to lament the state of the Thai educational system. I mean, there must be some serious reasons for ignorance such as this.

At the same time, I remain very much aware of various times in US history when different youth have added "German military memorabilia" to their wardrobe. Quite common among various motorcycle gangs, and teenage gang wannabes. Most Americans, while they may feel disgust, tend to look the other way.

So... Too bad for Thailand, to have portions of the population willfully lowering the image of Thai people in the eyes of others from around the world. At the same time, however, I'm reminded of "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" (John 8:7, or something like that).

[RedQualia]

Its ignorance of history concerning the 2nd World War in Europe.

Presumably they know that Japan invaded Thailand and caused untold deaths and misery?

I have no doubt however, that those that find Nazis 'funny' have no knowledge at all of the Nazi atrocities.

Unfortunate and definitely a reason to improve education.

I would imagine the Thais who actually know something about WW II are rather thankful they were on the side of the Nazis and Japanese. Burma lost 272,000 people compared to 7,600 in Thailand during the war.

In fact, both Thailand and Myanmar (not British Burma anymore) were allies of the Japanese during the earlier parts of WWII, with Thailand switching sides when it had become clear that the allies would win. The Shan states were actually kept apart and offered to both Thailand and Myanmar as rewards for helping the Japanese prosecute WW II (Thailand ultimately gave up the Shan states they had been "awarded").

[mr78]

A bit torn. On the one hand, I want to lament the state of the Thai educational system. I mean, there must be some serious reasons for ignorance such as this.

At the same time, I remain very much aware of various times in US history when different youth have added "German military memorabilia" to their wardrobe. Quite common among various motorcycle gangs, and teenage gang wannabes. Most Americans, while they may feel disgust, tend to look the other way.

So... Too bad for Thailand, to have portions of the population willfully lowering the image of Thai people in the eyes of others from around the world. At the same time, however, I'm reminded of "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" (John 8:7, or something like that).

Have you even seen the pictures? They are in no way glorifying Hitler and can in no way be compared with the "German military memorabilia" you are refering to.

[kerryk]

Its ignorance of history concerning the 2nd World War in Europe.

Presumably they know that Japan invaded Thailand and caused untold deaths and misery?

I have no doubt however, that those that find Nazis 'funny' have no knowledge at all of the Nazi atrocities.

Unfortunate and definitely a reason to improve education.

I would imagine the Thais who actually know something about WW II are rather thankful they were on the side of the Nazis and Japanese. Burma lost 272,000 people compared to 7,600 in Thailand during the war.

In fact, both Thailand and Myanmar (not British Burma anymore) were allies of the Japanese during the earlier parts of WWII, with Thailand switching sides when it had become clear that the allies would win. The Shan states were actually kept apart and offered to both Thailand and Myanmar as rewards for helping the Japanese prosecute WW II (Thailand ultimately gave up the Shan states they had been "awarded").

In your post above you lamented the sorry state of Thai education. I would also lament the place where you received your education as your statements about WW II are totally inaccurate. If it was the topic of this thread I would correct your statements but I don't want to go that far off topic. You might want to Google war reparations WW II and see who paid what to whom. Hint, Thailand paid and so did Japan.

[animatic]

In a different thread, facebook is accused of being the root of all evil.......

Could the two be combined to form facistbook.

Good mashup actually on several levels.

Which is exactly why I did it, and the response to it was as I expected.

I think the point is; You and I know what you mean.

But the majority of young Thais wearing these shirts do not understand their meaning.

The irony is lost and it is just crass on it's only level.

[RedQualia]

Its ignorance of history concerning the 2nd World War in Europe.

Presumably they know that Japan invaded Thailand and caused untold deaths and misery?

I have no doubt however, that those that find Nazis 'funny' have no knowledge at all of the Nazi atrocities.

Unfortunate and definitely a reason to improve education.

I would imagine the Thais who actually know something about WW II are rather thankful they were on the side of the Nazis and Japanese. Burma lost 272,000 people compared to 7,600 in Thailand during the war.

In fact, both Thailand and Myanmar (not British Burma anymore) were allies of the Japanese during the earlier parts of WWII, with Thailand switching sides when it had become clear that the allies would win. The Shan states were actually kept apart and offered to both Thailand and Myanmar as rewards for helping the Japanese prosecute WW II (Thailand ultimately gave up the Shan states they had been "awarded").

In your post above you lamented the sorry state of Thai education. I would also lament the place where you received your education as your statements about WW II are totally inaccurate. If it was the topic of this thread I would correct your statements but I don't want to go that far off topic. You might want to Google war reparations WW II and see who paid what to whom. Hint, Thailand paid and so did Japan.

You've already gone there, so allow me to say that you might want to read "History of the Shan State, From its origins to 1962," by Sai Aung Tun. Pay particular attention to the chapter entitled, "The Japanese Conquest of Myanmar and the Occupation and Partition of the Shan States."

[kerryk]

Red, I agree and it is a fascinating discussion. But not on topic and it has been done before on Thai Visa. You might want to open an older thread and start quoting.

[metisdead]

Yep, getting off topic here, if it continues, posts will disappear.

[RedQualia]

A bit torn. On the one hand, I want to lament the state of the Thai educational system. I mean, there must be some serious reasons for ignorance such as this.

At the same time, I remain very much aware of various times in US history when different youth have added "German military memorabilia" to their wardrobe. Quite common among various motorcycle gangs, and teenage gang wannabes. Most Americans, while they may feel disgust, tend to look the other way.

So... Too bad for Thailand, to have portions of the population willfully lowering the image of Thai people in the eyes of others from around the world. At the same time, however, I'm reminded of "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" (John 8:7, or something like that).

Have you even seen the pictures? They are in no way glorifying Hitler and can in no way be compared with the "German military memorabilia" you are refering to.

Your point is what? That they are not as bad? Or that they are worse? Be clear, please.

[kerryk]

I think there a number of ways to question the data. If one looks at the Thai fascination with the Swastika over the past few years on Thai Visa and the sport parades and billboards the images are certainly realistic. Or at the other extreme when you trivialize something that was only a few years ago thought of as terrible it minimizes the horror of the actions. Horse stealing or certain sexual acts were only a few years ago hanging offenses in some places.

I think the people who think that genocide is still a great wrong are more upset by the trappings of the holocaust than others. My mother was still upset with a certain color used in parades and a certain military uniform while it didn't bother me at all. I even have English friends today.

[mr78]

A bit torn. On the one hand, I want to lament the state of the Thai educational system. I mean, there must be some serious reasons for ignorance such as this.

At the same time, I remain very much aware of various times in US history when different youth have added "German military memorabilia" to their wardrobe. Quite common among various motorcycle gangs, and teenage gang wannabes. Most Americans, while they may feel disgust, tend to look the other way.

So... Too bad for Thailand, to have portions of the population willfully lowering the image of Thai people in the eyes of others from around the world. At the same time, however, I'm reminded of "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" (John 8:7, or something like that).

Have you even seen the pictures? They are in no way glorifying Hitler and can in no way be compared with the "German military memorabilia" you are refering to.

Your point is what? That they are not as bad? Or that they are worse? Be clear, please.

They are harmless, have a look at my previous posts in this thread and quote them if something is unclear.

[yoshiwara]

As far as the Swastika goes the ancient symbol is up and down not tilted like the German version.

The majority, yes; the entirety, no. Good point though. Most of what we see (murals in temples, etc.), is medieval or later. Here is an image of a 4,000 year old jar from the Majiayao people, (truly ancient).

If one goes through the 20 or so swastika topics that have been posted and discussed on Thai Visa over the past few years it is absolutely fascinating to me the number of posters with only 2 or three posts that feel it necessary to discuss the swastika.

What is it about the swastika that brings out posters who never comment on anything else on Thai Visa but feel it necessary to comment on the swastika?

I am not saying there is anything wrong with your comments but why would the swastika be the first thing out of the hundreds of thousands discussed on Thai Visa that you would comment on?

When certain stones are lifted, all sorts of things slither out.

[TAWP]

Feel sad for the moderator that has to dig through all this.

One double McHitler Meal to go thanks.

Do you want fries with that?

Extra large set?

[xray]

As far as the Swastika goes the ancient symbol is up and down not tilted like the German version.

The majority, yes; the entirety, no. Good point though. Most of what we see (murals in temples, etc.), is medieval or later. Here is an image of a 4,000 year old jar from the Majiayao people, (truly ancient).

If one goes through the 20 or so swastika topics that have been posted and discussed on Thai Visa over the past few years it is absolutely fascinating to me the number of posters with only 2 or three posts that feel it necessary to discuss the swastika.

What is it about the swastika that brings out posters who never comment on anything else on Thai Visa but feel it necessary to comment on the swastika?

I am not saying there is anything wrong with your comments but why would the swastika be the first thing out of the hundreds of thousands discussed on Thai Visa that you would comment on?

This is the first thread I have posted on, but my comments on the swastika were not my first post on this thread. I have made two posts commenting on the swastika here, both in reply to two other posters who had commented previously on it, one of who was you. So, I might ask you why you made a comment on the swastika. In fact, had your comment on the swastika not been in error, I would never have replied to it. Likewise, had the other poster's comment not been in error, I would not have replied to it either.

I suspect what you really would like to know about me and my posts, is weather or not I have an agenda to promote the use of the swastika and more specifically promote it to further an evil cause. The answer is no. I have the same interest in ancient swastikas that I have in other ancient symbols, i.e., wheel, sanchi, srivatsa, vajra, conch, harmony, trisula, moon, sun, etc.. Had you made comments about any of those, I likely would have replied to them as well.

[xray]

As far as the Swastika goes the ancient symbol is up and down not tilted like the German version.

The majority, yes; the entirety, no. Good point though. Most of what we see (murals in temples, etc.), is medieval or later. Here is an image of a 4,000 year old jar from the Majiayao people, (truly ancient).

If one goes through the 20 or so swastika topics that have been posted and discussed on Thai Visa over the past few years it is absolutely fascinating to me the number of posters with only 2 or three posts that feel it necessary to discuss the swastika.

What is it about the swastika that brings out posters who never comment on anything else on Thai Visa but feel it necessary to comment on the swastika?

I am not saying there is anything wrong with your comments but why would the swastika be the first thing out of the hundreds of thousands discussed on Thai Visa that you would comment on?

When certain stones are lifted, all sorts of things slither out.

There you are!

[xray]

Currently, the only swastikas I own are in books on archaeology and numismatics. If I ever feel the need to have and invoke the special powers of something more substantial, I would choose a swastika image that would not hurt or offend others. My swastika would look something like this:

[Thaddeus]

Currently, the only swastikas I own are in books on archaeology and numismatics. If I ever feel the need to have and invoke the special powers of something more substantial, I would choose a swastika image that would not hurt or offend others. My swastika would look something like this:

That's two baby seals touching noses in front of a snowman.

Sweet.

[Thaddeus]

In a different thread, facebook is accused of being the root of all evil.......

Could the two be combined to form facistbook.

Good mashup actually on several levels.

Which is exactly why I did it, and the response to it was as I expected.

I think the point is; You and I know what you mean.

But the majority of young Thais wearing these shirts do not understand their meaning.

The irony is lost and it is just crass on it's only level.

Exactly.

[cup-O-coffee]

Aside from the ignorance of glamorizing der Fuhrer, this situation basically is a very bold statement of the complete disregard and contempt that Thailand has for intellectual property, trade dress,and trademarks. Teletubbies, Ronald McDonald etc. are all trademarks and important assets of others. Those groups have invested millions if not billions of baht into building their respective brands. Teletubbies which is intended for young kids deserves better than to have its image raped and violated by a bunch of greedy, ignorant thieves. And yes that's what these businesses are. They aren't just robbing their victims, they are peeing on them as well. One can laugh this off all one wants, but it is this attitude that explains in part why no foreign entities have insignificant R&D investments in Thailand.

Disgraceful!

Totally agree. On the one hand, it's okay to degrade other people's history through these disrespectful demonstrations of ignorance, and on the other hand you go to jail in some countries over a few SMS's. Where's the fairness in these countries when the coin is flipped?

This is a clear indication of Thailand's younger generation, and their lack of regard and respect for anything that does not resemble an iPod, condom machine or hand-held video game.

Yes.. but Thailand's younger generation only? I think not! What about the youth of America and pretty much every consumerist nation who the Thais are quick trying to catch up with? Too much too quickly is the major issue here.. now we want them to let go of that greed for money which we already know breeds disrespect in so many people, and which WE'VE bestowed upon them in OUR relentless greed for money through new markets?!! As for tee-shirts, that's all they are.. t-shirts.. you find them funny as they're taking the p**s out of a character long established as ridiculous beyond any reason.. or you don't.. save the self-righteousness for those who want to listen to your sermons!.. or just concentrate on what's really important, as in your life and that of loved ones.. and give the crap a rest!!!

Hallelujah, brother!

[leanbiz]

1. Parodies are protected from Intellectual Property laws.

2. As someone who is familiar with the senseless tragedy of the Nazi era, I still think it is quite acceptable to parody Hitler. It is also acceptable to parody Pol Pot, Kim Jong-il, and other retarded tyrants.

[xray]

How about a parody of a parody?

[Ijustwannateach]

It has probably already been said somewhere in those past 27 pages, but it's not just the kids- in those schools which are now infamous for their Sports Day Reichstag Parade Numbers (I'm not making this up) the Thai teachers were IN CHARGE of the program!!! I have heard that foreign staff at those schools TRIED to warn them, but.....

This is maybe one of those occasions when someone who has sufficient influence really needs to go to the top of the heap at the MOE and/or even the police department to do a little historical re-education and explain why these happenings make Thailand look bad- if nothing else, even if no one actually learns the history, we'll at least get a regulation that prevents the items being on sale and/or used as dance costumes....

[sbk]

So Hitler t-shirts are bad, Che Guevara t-shirts are good. I imagine for those Cubans whose relatives were executed by the firing squads he oversaw might disagree with other peoples interpretations.

Seems to me its all very ethnocentric to assume that everyone must have the same equal amount of horror at events of the past.

Do I find it appalling? Sure. But then neither am I fond of the trendy Mao and Che t-shirts that many westerners like to wear either. Ignorance is not a solely Thai trait, IMHO.

[necronx99]

Pop culture is full of both parody and outright commercial exploitation of many events that some group or another is going to find grossly offensive. On Hitler and the Nazis alone you have Dads Army, Hogans Heros, McCales's Navy Fawlty Towers, Allo Allo, they even had a crack at a Hitler sitcom "Heil Honey' I'm Home. Then there are the endless commercial movies made, Dirty Dozen, Kelly's Heroes, Dr Strangelove, 2 of the Indiana Jones movies etc which are nothing but pop culture entertainment made to make money for their (Jewish owned) studios, none of them were made as lasting reminders of the horrors of war. And let us not forget the Hitler History Channel which is basically 24/7 full of shows alternately denigrating or glorifying the Nazi war machine strutting about in their natty Hugo Boss designed uniforms. And let's not forget guys like James Bond, Rambo or Chuck Norris gleefully mowing down hundreds of Soviet or Vietnamese Troops who did nothing other than wake up one day and serve their country.

It's a big world with a long history and lots of cultural sensitivities, something is always going to offend someone. One regular poster here has an Avatar of one of the biggest mass murderers in history, probabaly far worse than Hitler who not only killed millions but doomed hundreds of millions to 50 years of slavery, this is portrayed not as a parody but seemingly like a tribute, the intellectual side of the sociopathic dictator. I don't see anyone defending the 10's of millions of people that might offend. SBK has an Avatar that would have her arrested and tortured in many parts of the world should she ever publish it or god forbid actually appear in public in that guise.

Lot's of people have made fun of them, lots of people have just profited from them. Tell me you didn't laugh at Schultz saying "I zee noting" a hundred times or enjoy any of the shows mentioned above before you jump on the PC wagon and start calling for T-Shirt bans or god forbid mandatory education (re-education camps? Anyone?).

Now, the thing that strikes me most about this thread it that the very people coming out most strongly against the Thais and these shirts (which are by no means unique to Thailand) are most likely the same people who complain about China's censorship, web censorship in general (including what this site is required to do to protect itself) Thailand's odd libel laws and indeed the LM laws.

The PC censorship path is very steep and very slippery. You all need to grow a pair, and grow a thicker skin. Judge not..glass houses etc before we all go the way of the golliwog and end up watching sports where they don't keep score and everyones a winner.

[Nisa]

It has probably already been said somewhere in those past 27 pages, but it's not just the kids- in those schools which are now infamous for their Sports Day Reichstag Parade Numbers (I'm not making this up) the Thai teachers were IN CHARGE of the program!!! I have heard that foreign staff at those schools TRIED to warn them, but.....

This is maybe one of those occasions when someone who has sufficient influence really needs to go to the top of the heap at the MOE and/or even the police department to do a little historical re-education and explain why these happenings make Thailand look bad- if nothing else, even if no one actually learns the history, we'll at least get a regulation that prevents the items being on sale and/or used as dance costumes....

I only think it makes Thailand look bad to those who don't know Thailand ... maybe it is also those people who need to be re-educated before they take offense to something that is neither designed to offend or would offend any reasonable person who understood the context.

I personally have no problem with people complaining about the results of ignorance but it seems much of this faux outrage is used as a political tool by Israel leaders. Clearly Israeli leaders are neither stupid not forgetful and at some point during the countless stories, over the years, of these happenings in many parts of Asia they should come to realize nobody is glorifying the atrocities committed during WWII.

Clearly in this case they are parodies of popular icons all displayed in a comical way. It is time for people to stop being sheep and falling for this con by Israeli leaders to promote their political agendas. The big reason why they claim everyone should be aware and radically overly sensitive to the atrocities of WWII (at least against Jews) is to make sure it is not repeated. Yet, I am not sure any rational person needs to be told it is wrong to try to wipe out an entire group of people based on religion or ethnicity ... knowledge of the past still doesn't prevent this from happening today. In fact, the common practice of using Hitler/Nazi comparisons to describe ones enemies has in itself been made a worthless warning because of how much this card is played ... not to mention you need Israel's backing to use it on a global political stage (Saddam Hussein) but won't often here it being used when it comes to genocides that occur elsewhere (poor nations with truly helpless victims) that don't effect Israel and US interests.

Israel is a known nuclear power (though they won't admit it or allow inspectors to check their programs) and has one of the best defense forces in the world. As far as I can guess, Jewish people per capita are probably much more well off and control much more wealth and media in the world than any other religious group on the planet and they have a country they can go to any time were they will automatically be a citizen should they run into problems in their home country. This is all great and nobody has a right to take away these things from either Israel or Jews but enough is enough with playing the victim card because neither entity is anything close to being a victim now ... in fact both groups are actually very powerful ... and people truly need distinguish between a country and a religion. To condemn Israel for actions should not be a green light to be called anti-semantic and in fact people should be scared of people's true agenda who make such accusations.

[Sing_Sling]

It has probably already been said somewhere in those past 27 pages, but it's not just the kids- in those schools which are now infamous for their Sports Day Reichstag Parade Numbers (I'm not making this up) the Thai teachers were IN CHARGE of the program!!! I have heard that foreign staff at those schools TRIED to warn them, but.....

This is maybe one of those occasions when someone who has sufficient influence really needs to go to the top of the heap at the MOE and/or even the police department to do a little historical re-education and explain why these happenings make Thailand look bad- if nothing else, even if no one actually learns the history, we'll at least get a regulation that prevents the items being on sale and/or used as dance costumes....

Regulations?

So, you'd accept a bunch of Cubans approaching the British Dept. of Education or the police to stop the sales of Che and Fidel prints?

How about native Americans asking for t-shirts with the US flag to be banned because millions (far more than victims of the Third Reich) and millions of native Americans were massacred by the now-rulers?

Australian Aborigines . . . How about pictures of the Oz continent with a Union Jack? Seems logical as so many Aborigines were slaughtered by both Brits and Aussies . . .

Thais demanding that all Buddha images be made illegal unless they conform to some guidelines set up by some Buddhist Tribunal . . .

Chinese people demanding of the British parliament that all paraphernalia with Mao pictures or references be outlawed because . . . how can they be so culturally insensitive . . . Mao murdered tens and tens of millions of people.

Britain could lead the way so that the Thais could see that cultural sensitivity needs to be regulated!

Oh, the list goes on, I don't mean to offend but your post does sound immensely demeaning to Thais and their government.

Would one expect the teachers to know better? Maybe. Would one expect the teachers to have handled the situation differently as they were told by western colleagues that this was a no-no . . . in their countries?

Perhaps.

Tasteless and dumb? Sure. A mighty over-reaction by westerners? Yup. Gross hypocrisy by westerners? Definitely

I guess that Mao, Allende, Che, Arafat/PLO etc... being used on t-shirts, mugs, flags etc.... by westerners is far more unacceptable because we SHOULD know better because we are better EDUCATED!

Thank you

[Sing_Sling]

To condemn Israel for actions should not be a green light to be called anti-semantic .

I agree. Anti-semanticism is a bad thing.

[animatic]

So Hitler t-shirts are bad, Che Guevara t-shirts are good. I imagine for those Cubans whose relatives were executed by the firing squads he oversaw might disagree with other peoples interpretations.

Seems to me its all very ethnocentric to assume that everyone must have the same equal amount of horror at events of the past.

Do I find it appalling? Sure. But then neither am I fond of the trendy Mao and Che t-shirts that many westerners like to wear either. Ignorance is not a solely Thai trait, IMHO.

I think the Che and Mao shirts are in poor taste also, and/or just plain stupid.

Except for a few Mao shirts showing how his concepts were a total failure.

He was a master of propaganda imaging, and using that against his concepts is fair play.

The idolization of 2 photos of Che is beyond understanding.

Good shots, but why they are as prevalent as Serpico Mudflaps, I have no clue.