Fish And Shrimp Farm

[David48]

Just thought I might share a few photos when they become available from my gf's parents fish farm south of Bangkok.

I'll kick off with the recent prawn harvest (yes, I know the Yanks call them shrimp, but I'm an Aussie and despite what is in the header, they will always be a prawn to me).

In later posts I'll describe the Farm in more detail, but I am cautious as I have been given permission to use the photos and describe the routines, but I don’t want to cause conflict at the Farm by disclosing too much information.

So I'll start cautiously, allow the gf to show the parents this tread and go from there.

I can't describe the Farm accurately in the opening post and will try and subsequently post that.

Comments and questions are most welcome and I will endeavour to reply to all but remember that it will take some time because of the various translations and family members involved.

[David48]

I suppose no story starts without knowing the cast.

So introducing Mother

She is the matriarch of the Farm

See here in the checked shirt.

And Father

Seen here supervising the unloading of the prawns at the Market.

Not a great photo, will post better when I get one.

Both incredibly hard working folk given that this is Thailand.

[David48]

The second set of photos have arrived.

Typicial Prawn net, nothing new there.

That is a sunrise, so an early start

The net is out overnight

Nothing fancy ... worry about the live elecs over the water though

The pond depth averages 4 - 5 feet

The man's standing on the pond floor, so roughly 5' there

The gf described this one as prawns dancing

Coming ashore

Handy catch

[David48]

Following on from the previous series of photos ...

More of the catch

Tilapia in with the prawns ... most likely will be breakfast.

One method of transport to the market

Gf's Dad with the trusty ute

Adding the ice

Will ask why some were no ice (on the motorcycle) and others in the barrell with ice in the back of the ute.

[ozzydom]

David, from the pics, that looks more like a large lake than a pond, how big is it ?

Also what type of prawn are they harvesting?

[RedBullHorn]

Kuoong Mae Nam - Fresh water white prawns...worth ฿150-180/kg...

[David48]

David, from the pics, that looks more like a large lake than a pond, how big is it ?

Also what type of prawn are they harvesting?

Ozzy, it's a full-on Farm and 'The Pond' is 6 rai.

I reckon it looks about the size of 2, maybe 3 football fields.

Mum has one 'pond' and father runs 3 'ponds'

The reason for the use of the word of 'Pond' is that was how my gf translates it and it's easier for her to say then lake.

In the previous post I mentioned the two types of transport.

On the bike with no ice and in the back of the Ute with ice.

Two different markets and the 'ice' one is further away.

Edit:- Oh, I just read that, if the catch is less then 30 kg then it goes to the local market for sale.

The advantage is that it's close but the price 'down little bit' ... 'other market more money'.

So assuming that if the catch is over 30 kgs then we have the cost of ice and 'oil' (diesel) but that extra expense is cover by the increased price at the other market.

Edited March 2, 2012 by David48

[David48]

As for the type and price of the Prawns, I got an interesting response.

I asked her to write, in Thai, the name of the Prawn.

She wrote กุ้ง which Google Translate gives as 'shrimp'

OK, in English Honey, how say?

Vannamei shrimp

How you write that in Thai?

... กุ้งขาว which Google Translate gives as 'shrimp' ... go figure!

Probing a little further we get this conversation ...

we never call "Vannamei shrimp" we just say "Kung kwaw"

Kung Kwaw it is White Shrimp

Solved ...

As for the price ... well it's according to the market and the size of the Prawn.

Her words were ... I know last time ..size # 50 shrimps / 1 kilo = 190 Baht

I ask size # 50 shrimps. Is that a certain grade or size of shrimp?

She replies ... shrimps 50 / kg it mean big size because normal size about 80-100 shrimps / kilo

Well done Farm Girl ...

What a great girl she is ... and quite the photographer.

A particular foggy morning

One of the ponds at Sunset

If there is a breeze up to keep the mozzies at bay ... I really miss sitting by that lake at Sunset drinking 100 Pipers and Soda with her Mum, Farm Girl (doesn't drink) and Father when he arrives, always last he is!

[David48]

Farm life through some photos

High res shot of the Prawns

Introducing Mr Sing Song, son of my gf's Aunt's daughter ... who also lives at the Farm

What the pond looks like when emptied

Sunset over Pond

[David48]

Well I joined up my girl to be a member of the forum here, but having trouble loading her photo.

So here is the girl.

They don't wear the fancy boots like the PM

Next are at the market selling the prawns

Storm brewing over the Farm

[insertcoins]

Nice post/pictures, thanks!

[David48]

I looked at the downloads of all the photos, and for a thread about a Prawn and Shrimp Farm, the photo which was downloaded the most was that of the Farm Girl.

Well I suppose we are all curious about each others halves

With the novice Monk in my Avatar, he is her Nephew taken at the Farm at Sunset

So here is a better photo of her without her farm clothes on ...

Next post will be more about the Farm!

[Livinginexile]

Fantastic! coming from a fishing background (I grew up on the Far North Coast NSW) this post especially interests me.

I could be perfectly happy living this type of lifestyle!

It sounds like you are still living in Oz, do you have plans on moving here and becoming a farm boy?

[MissFarmGirl]

Hello everyone, my name Mod

This my parents Farm and Family

We would to tell you our story

Share with you little bit of our life at the Farm

You can ask us question here and through David we will try and answer you.

He can tell you many things also

We grow shrimp and Tilapia fish

Wish you all good luck what you do

also I make photo of david and me because he no do 5555

[tingtong]

nice thread.

for questions:

do you farm the shrimp and tilapia together or in separate ponds?

if together, then what is the stocking rate?

how long is the growing period for the shrimps in general?

many thanks,

tingtong

[David48]

Fantastic! coming from a fishing background (I grew up on the Far North Coast NSW) this post especially interests me.

I could be perfectly happy living this type of lifestyle!

It sounds like you are still living in Oz, do you have plans on moving here and becoming a farm boy?

Apologies for the delay in answering.

And a great question

I was hoping to answer you and make the next part of thread together in one reply, but we've lost the internet at the Farm so still waiting for her parents to run their eye over my next post.

So to your question ... Yep still living in Oz, but don't have plans to move to Thailand in the foreseeable future for a number of reasons.

The romantic in me would love to join the Farming community there but there are a number of snags (fishing pun intended).

The gf and I are just that, we aren’t married (yet ... soon honey ... soon. She reads these posts!)

Foreigners can't own land in Thailand.

Working in Thailand is illegal.

And many a wise head here in this Forum say categorically, don't invest more in Thailand then you are prepared to walk away from.

That was my head talking ...

Now my heart is in a different place.

Both Mum and Dad came from the land. Mum, a daughter of a grain farmer and dad a shearer ... so it's in the blood and the spirit.

The idea of living off the land, growing and harvesting the fish and prawns has great appeal.

Becoming part of their community (as best a foreigner can) would be great.

BUT ...

The economics of it don't stack up.

To buy land there, in that community is not viable.

Because of it's proximity to Bangkok, the land has a premium built into it over and above that if arable or viable (water availability, suitable soil type, proximity to markets) farmland.

Based on rents in the area, the return, if you rented the farmland out would be closer to a 1% return on your money.

Farming the land as her parents do is more viable return wise, but inherently more risky.

So the Farm Boy romantic ideal has to be lived through frequent visits rather directly living the lifestyle.

What is so nice is that they encourage me to join with them at almost every level and never has their buffalo gotten sick! (They don't have a buffalo, it's a metaphor)

Though, the truth be known, occasionally I have come laden with groceries from TESCO and commenting once to the gf while we were in the store ... we are going to bring 4 bottles (litres) of (cooking) oil? ... <deleted>, is your dad going to change the oil in his Ute? Got a clip around the ears for that and a reply comment of, no David, you know the truck takes 5 litres!

Edit:- tingtong Will answer your question soon as I have to confirm the stocking rate.

Most definately are farmed together within the same pond.

The turnaround time for the Prawns is approximately 3 months.

Actually you have covered a lot of the next post!

...

Edited March 6, 2012 by David48

[David48]

For those who just want to look at the machinery being used here is the device which exchanges water to and from the pond.

Not sure is petrol or Diesel.

Is self propelled at roughly walking pace.

The Farm has 2, maybe 3 of these

But there could be shared ownership amongst the relatives

Returning back to the shed with Father driving.

YouTube run time 16 secs

This is an unlisted video which means that only people who know the link to the video can view it.

It is provided for the viewing of Forum members only and please do not forward this link to any person or company or misuse it in any way.

This disclaimer applies to all YouTube links I supply on this thread.

Edit:- didn't install the YouTube link correctly

Edited March 6, 2012 by David48

[David48]

The Fish and Prawn Farm layout.

The Thai gf parents own and lease a number of ‘ponds’ south of Bangkok.

All are adjoining and the ones that are not owned are leased from relatives.

When you fly into Suvarnabhumi Airport and you look down and see all those Ponds/Lakes glittering, she is one of a hundred, if not thousands down there.

There are more then 4 ponds, but the average pond size where the Fish and Prawns are grown and harvested from, is about 6 Rai.

For easy conversion of Rai into your local land unit …

1 sq. Wah = 4 sq. m.

1 Ngan = 100 sq. Wah (or 400 sq. m.)

1 Rai = 4 Ngan (or 1600 sq. m.)

1 Acre = 2.5 Rai (approx.) or 43,560 sq. ft.

1 Hectare = 6.25 Rai or 10,000 sq. m.

Source:- http://www.thephuket...i_to_Metric.htm

When the surface area of the ponds are added together there is about 24 rai stocked with Fish and Prawns. Of those smaller ponds there are some specifically dedicated to the immature Prawns and Fish.

Aerial view of Fish Farms near Bangkok.

The marker points to Boon Mar Ponds where you pay to fish Barramundi

Not endorsing that place ... never been there, just acknowledging the photo

The reason for saying ‘Fish and Prawn’ Farm is that while there are many more prawn harvests held each year, the sale of the prawns really just provide cash flow for the Farm (buying food for the Fish) and the real prize is the successful harvest of the Fish after they have maximised their growing cycle.

The Fish is where the real money is made … or lost as the case maybe.

...

Edited March 7, 2012 by David48

[ShopBoy]

Nice post David48

[David48]

There is a symbiotic relationship between the Fish, in this case Tilapia and the Prawns.

First of all the pond is roughly 5 foot deep, chest or shoulder height for your average person.

They reckon that 5’ is about the perfect depth for the pond which allows both species to co-inhabit … secretly I reckon it’s not deeper because most Thai’s can’t swim!

This depth of pond allows stratification of the pond for the two different species.

The Fish (Tilapia) are surface dwellers and the Prawns, bottom feeders.

The Fish are fed through a series of feeding baskets located at the ponds surface and are manually filled every afternoon.

The Prawns have two feeding cycles. When they are young they are kept in a separate part of the pond and feed a pelletised food and when deemed strong enough after approximately a month they are released into the ponds proper.

No further feeding of the Prawns typically occurs apart from the odd food scrap that we distribute into the pond when eating there (and having a scotch and soda) or some left over rice that’s been in the warmer for more then a day or two and the Farm dogs weren’t interested in eating it.

The prawns rely on what filters down to the pond’s bottom after the fish have consumed and digested their food. I tried to write that as ‘nicely’ as possible.

Considering what the Prawns staple diet is … they are darn tasty!

I’ve read that some Thai Farmers try and increase the feed coming to the Fish by placing a chicken roost over the pond as well and allow their droppings to be added to the Fish potential food supply.

In practise, at the Farms that I have visited, I am yet to witness this practise and would conclude that it’s fairly rare in the Bangkok area.

Thankyou ShopBoy

...

Edited March 8, 2012 by David48

[David48]

The Farm isn’t all about work. The family have a role to play.

This short clip was filmed while Mother was showering up before she joined us by the Ponds edge to eat some the day’s harvest that didn’t make it to market.

Actors in order of appearance …

Oom (who can be audibly hear saying ting tong to Mod at the end)

Fill, the youngest of the tribe

Hnuue, Sister #2 BBQing bananas

The Farm Girl Mod … who, despite the acting, doesn’t drink.

YouTube run time 38 secs

As stated in an earlier post here, I really miss sitting there by the ponds edge, listening to them babble on in Thai, not understanding a word, but still feeling that I am part of the action. Enjoy, that is, until the mosquitos arrive in force.

Different type of Shrimp this one and what we were eating that day.

Throw another Shrimp on the Barby Hoges (recognition limited to Australian audiences only)

Father (rare photo) repairing the boats engine

Mother before she scrubbed up and joined us by the Pond

Mod and niece First

The human element aside, in the attached clip, you can see the actual size of the pond as it disappears out of camera view.

They manage the equivalent of 4 of those size ponds.

Back to the serious stuff next post.

Edit:- Added YouTube run time

Edited March 9, 2012 by David48

[David48]

Why not Prawn only Farms?

There are many successful Prawn only Farms outside Asia where the end price for the product can justify the cost of the inputs required to achieve a decent yield.

We have many where I live on the Gold Coast Australia.

Another reason for the demise of the Prawn only Farm has been the high mortality rate due to diseases. The white spot disease in particular.

You can read a bit about here in this Japan study … http://www.biotec.or...s/soi-itami.pdf

This is where that symbiotic relationship comes into play again.

For some reason the Tilapia don’t eat (well, not many anyway … who is to know for sure) many of the healthy Prawns, judging by the harvest numbers.

But there is some deducted evidence that they consume the dying or dead Prawns with apparently little ill effects on the Fish. This consumption seems to limit the spread of the disease.

.

[David48]

Thermal Stratification

Even though the illustration below talks about a ‘summer kill’, it is in reality what happens in a pond on a daily basis.

The upper layer where the fish feed closest to the ponds surface is oxygen rich.

However, the lower strata, where the prawns feed starts to become oxygen deprived.

How quickly the oxygen is depleted is dependant upon a number of variables, salinity, surface temperature, stocking and feeding rate, rainfall etc.

But the #1 reason is the simple lack of wind. The wind repletes the oxygen and if it’s strong enough can mix the stratas a little.

What surprised me when I first started researching this and asking questions why the gf’s parents did such and such was how quickly the oxygen level drops.

Above is a chart which reflects this. Of course it’s for a still day when there is no oxygen being replaced to the waters surface. The chart is slightly wrong when compared to other research read because the low point in the oxygen cycle occurs about an hour before dawn.

I thought this fish farming was a bit of a lark but it’s not unlike many other animal farms and in a similar vein to dairy farms … it’s up before dawn to check the levels and start the aerators if required.

Remember this is Thailand and they don’t use a fancy machine to estimate the dissolved oxygen saturation so I am told “it’s a feeling thing David”.

Above is a good example of the stratification that occurs with both the water temperature and the dissolved oxygen.

What happens when you get it wrong?

Well, judging by what happened a few months ago … the prawns are the first to suffer.

Yep, the reason that we had the feast of those blue coloured prawns in the post above, is that they actually either died and floated to the surface or simply crawled out of the pond … and died.

Still tasty though!

.

[RedBullHorn]

good post above , "anaerobic cycle"... that's why we never raise above the limit of 1.5 metre in depth so sunlight can penetrate to pond bed in commercial farming...

[MissFarmGirl]

Hello. David48 worry little bit because of photo of family here.

Sorry for do. We not know should not do.

He has family permission to show photos.

Sorry again

[David48]

To the Mods, apologies if I have broken the rule of not posting photos of others, but I don't think I have contravened the 'spirit' of the rule and have verbal permission and can get expressed permission to publish photos if required.

Future presentation of any media I will do my best to show that which only directly relates to the Farming process.

[David48]

So, back to Pond Aeration

In post #23 there is discussion about Thermal Stratification within the pond and there is also a direct relation to dissolved oxygen levels, Pond Aeration overcomes that.

Aeration takes many forms, but the most commonly found in Thailand is mechanically driven Paddle Wheel.

Typical paddle wheel Aerator.

The paddle wheels are supported above the ponds surface polystyrene foam ‘boat’ encased in a lightweight plastic shell. The ‘boat’ is then held in place by bamboo rods which have been driven into the Pond’s bottom (sounds painful!)

The boats have holes pre-pressed into them which allow the boats to auto adjust as the Pond level rises and falls.

The Thais tend to use the cheapest and most practical things and, in the photos above, an old car differential acts as both gear reduction (slower paddle speed), change of direction for mechanical rotation and also allows one motor to run 2 paddle wheels simultaneously as shown in the photo below.

Fish Ponds, or grow out ponds in Thailand are commonly rectangular in shape and the Paddle Wheel is normally placed half way down the long axis of the pond.

Apparently this is the most efficient way to use it and causes the least bank erosion.

Inline bearing

As mentioned about, the Thai use low tech, money saving ideas wherever possible.

Above is a photo of an in-line bearing. A closer inspection of it reveals that it has been there for some time and works just fine.

Source: http://www.fish.wa.g...20/index.php?00

Paddle wheel in full flight

Standing on the wall between 2 Ponds and showing the engine hut, driveshaft, differential and that the paddlewheels are place ½ down the long axis of a rectangular pond. YouTube run time 14 secs

Paddle wheels in full flight. YouTube run time 25 secs

The Chaipattana Low Speed Aerator, Model RX-2 seen here on the right

Source: http://thailand.prd....nt.php?s_id=311

His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej (the current King) invented and patented an Aerator and it is also commonly seen throughout Thailand, but I am yet to see one being employed in a grow out Fish Pond because, while it would provide excellent aeration it is, most likely less efficient in mixing the stratas which form within the pond.

There is quite a bit of information around about windmill powered aerators and with a good wind I’m sure they do a good job of supplying oxygen to the pond. But if you have a good wind … you don’t need a lot of aeration!

For the hobby farmer with low stocking rates, aeration is not a big deal.

Bur for the Thai Farmer who could lose a considerable proportion of his/her livelihood in a day, or more likely overnight ... it's vital.

Really good Australian Government information in a easy to read format

http://www.fish.wa.g...20/index.php?00

Mississippi State University based literature, still easily read.

http://www.thefishsi...9/pond-aeration

More serious and for the technically minded

http://www.fao.org/d...4E/x5744e0m.htm

Edit: Embedding the YouTube links that keep dissapearing

Edited March 10, 2012 by David48

[supaprik]

thanks for all your work with regard to your posting information, whilst I am a city boy and have very little interest in farming I am finding your thread both educational and interesting, please keep up the good work as I am sure that many TV readers are following this with interest..

[ShopBoy]

David48 build some chalets on the farm with eat all you can prawn pricing.

I be the first to book.

[David48]

Fish Kill

Call it’s commentators curse but the Monday morning after the week-end when I wrote the above post, in one of the Ponds there was a minor (thankfully) Fish kill.

Apparently the previous day had some breeze and Mother, who tends solely to this pond, deemed that there was enough oxygen in the pond … wrong.

Maybe it was because the natural mortality rate during this grow out period was less leading to a higher stocking or density within the pond.

As soon as the floaters were discovered at dawn the aerators were fired up and all available hands at the Farm were called into action to collect the Fish and Prawns while they were still fresh.

Below are some photos from the recovery process.

This did bring this interesting photo of the 2 different Prawn species and their differing look at their respective growth cycle stages.

Mother has tried introducing a second species other Tilapia. Translated from Thai in English, the Thais call this species ‘Big Head’ fish. Apparently we call them ‘Big Head Carp’. The smaller, darker Fish in the above photo is a Tilapia and the rest are Carp.

With relativly lower proporation of Tilapia dying could indicate that are able to handle the lower oxygen levels then the Carp, thus making the Tilapia a hardier and more tolerant species then the Carp.

Information on the Big Head Carp species form the Queensland (Australian State) Government … http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/28_13049.htm

Source: http://www.gillhamsf...rp_species.html

Declared a noxious species in Australia and reported to grow up 35 Kgs and judging by the photo above, 35 kilos is very achievable.

When I asked the gf what are like to eat, she relied that she never had eaten one and Thais typically make their famous Fish Cakes from them … I love Thai Fish Cakes

Thanks to RedBullHorn, supaprik and ShopBoy for dropping by and commenting ...

.