Fish And Shrimp Farm

[MB1]

Just remembered the name of the series.

The fishermens apprentice. A UK tv series

Sorry no link as I'm on my phone and aint got a clue how to copy and paste the link.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect App

[David48]

And may I say 1 other person who's been converted to the farming section of TV forums, ME.

An absolutely exellent thread/topic IMO and one I will follow with interest, so please keep up and on with the thread David and Miss Farmgirl and other posters <snip>

MB1, thanks for the kind words and the praise bestowed. Most of the credit has to go to MissFarmGirl, because she does the videos, photography and technical information ... I just bring it together in a readable and hopefully entertaining format.

And yes ... you are correct ... there is much 'dick slapping on the table to see who has the longest' over the General Forum ... but remember, that just makes you appreciate little cul-de-sacs like this where you can chat with some nice folk, exchange handshakes and swap stories.

There are many good stories being told here ... just takes a bit of time to track them down.

Lastly ... if you want to read something completely nonsensical, with over 1,500 posts and not one post deleted and discover how this fine Lassie relates to Cricket.

How that < leads into this >

Come and chance your arm at Thailand needs Cricket

Everyone is welcome ...

Edited June 7, 2012 by David48

[pigeonjake]

a up david,

ive just been speaking to the wife ive got her on the case of the baby prawns,,, she was laughing saying you want to try everything,lol, weve got pigs as you know, red talapia in the pond,laying hens and ive even said to her im going to make a mushroom shen when i get home, ive told her, when im away her and muma can do it easy,,lol,

i dont know if you saw the tred i posted about planet numbers, ery good for ringing home at 3p a min

take care all jake

[brit1984]

Great thread in many ways. I was especially interested to see your photo showing you are actually Shane Warne.

It seems like a very interesting venture and the family seem to know their industry well, but I am sure you can add a new perspective, especially as you are able (or forced) to take a step-back and look at the bigger picture.

You could also focus on commercialisation of the non-farming side of things as others mentioned. You could have a restaurant, a resort, classes for tourists to learn about fish farming / cooking, and maybe some water-sports on the pond.

[kuripot]

Just remembered the name of the series.

The fishermens apprentice. A UK tv series

Sorry no link as I'm on my phone and aint got a clue how to copy and paste the link.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect App

Fisherman's Apprentice is on You Tube and a simple search should bring up the goods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxqOQ5bpAHA&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLB0880A2E0681B81F for starters. I think this is really a superb thread and has given me a great insight into fish farming in Thailand.

[ray23]

This is waht I was going to use to into roduce the shrimp to the pond. Wonl;t get used till next year unless I can find some shrimp, no luck yet. The idea was to feed them for a while. The top isn't on yet. I was trying to find a way to introduce them to the pond and protect them till they got some size to them.

[David48]

Hi ray23 ... WOW ... very fancy!

I've got nothing really at this stage to demonstrate how the Thai Farm Family do it, but, like always, when that part of the cycle is captured ... I'll post it.

What I have read there seem to be three things which affect the Prawns in this juvenile stage and the Family do address them (in their own unique Thai way mind you).

Change of environment

1. Ph balance and salinity. So it's the gradual introduction of the pond water which maybe different from that at the Hatchery. Just employ a method as to not shock them.
   
2. Temperature. Same with the temperature acclimatisation
   
3. Feeding. Their feeding habits do change with time and small Juvenile Prawns are feed a pelletised feed until released into the pond.
   

Do feel free and post all your success and 'almost' successes with the Prawns (and your Fish, but I'm mindful of your own Thread running ... ) here if you wish as this thread is open all.

Good luck with your adventure ...

Edited June 7, 2012 by David48

[David48]

Following on from above ... this is how it's done with the Tilapia Fish fry.

Note, it's not Prawns there are handling here (I'll get that later), but they do address the temperature equalization, separation for feeding etc.

[ray23]

Not a fancy as you think left over sliding screen doors. I will say the Thai way works darn good. Lot to learn from them.

[David48]

Just inspired by a few other threads here on the Forum ... What You Like Doing Best On Your Farm and Which Place In Thailand Holds The Best Memories For You?.

So ... if I maybe indulgent ... this is the sitting gazebo (for want of a better descriptor) on the Pond's edge where I have sat for many an hour with the Farm Family while they are rabbiting on in Thai as they occasionally glance my way to see if I have nodded off.

It's also the place to find a cool sleeping place on a Hot Thai Summer day ... always a breeze.

Doesn't look much without being populated with the Family ... but it's been a source of constant joy and contentment in Thailand.

[media=]

[/media]

So lets populate it for a second with the Family wishing me Happy Birthday, a few months ago.

Storm clouds

Panorama

Sunsets looking back across the Fish Pond.

[ray23]

Well that time of year agin, rice paddies full of water an those nasty little fish that ate all mine, last year.

This year all walled in. Put extra protection in sliding gate.

I have a deck a well. Haven't seen that many cuties on it yet

[David48]

There was discussion over in ray23's thread about the omnivore habits of Tilapia.

Put simply ... the plants they eat.

Well established that Tilapia love DuckWeed and it has nutritional benefits for them but I am curious to know what else toy have observed them eating?

In all the klongs around, they are almost chocked with water hyacinth.

Has anyone tried feeding it to their fish?

Is it unpalatable to them?

Is the water hyacinth’s growth rate exceeding the rate at which the Fish would consume it?

I'll put the research I discovered in the next post

In due course, I will ask the Fish Family, but thought I’d ask you guys first ...

[David48]

Some searching of the Web found this ...

Water hyacinth is also a good feed for fish. For instance, the Chinese grass carp is a fast growing fish which eats aquatic plants. It grows at a tremendous rate and reaches sizes of up to 32 kilograms. It is an edible fish with a tasty white meat. It will eat submerged or floating plants and also bank grasses. The fish can be used for weed control and will eat up to 18-40 percent of its own body weight in a single day.

Other fish such as the tilapia, silver carp, and silver dollar fish are all aquatic and can be used to control aquatic weeds. Water hyacinth has also been used indirectly to feed fish. Dehydrated water hyacinth has been added to the diet of channel catfish fingerlings to increase their growth. It has also been noted that decay of water hyacinth after chemical control releases nutrients which promote the growth of phytoplankton with subsequent increases in fish yield.

Water Hyacinth Ecological Value, Environmental Impacts

From the article above, some information for the Pig Farmers ...

5% of water hyacinth in the total diet of pigs leads to significantly weight gains. But feed containing 30 percent of more of hyacinth can reduce weight gain by over 90 percent. These tests show that water hyacinth as a feed for animals must be used with great care

[kevjohn]

Some searching of the Web found this ...

Water hyacinth is also a good feed for fish. For instance, the Chinese grass carp is a fast growing fish which eats aquatic plants. It grows at a tremendous rate and reaches sizes of up to 32 kilograms. It is an edible fish with a tasty white meat. It will eat submerged or floating plants and also bank grasses. The fish can be used for weed control and will eat up to 18-40 percent of its own body weight in a single day.

Other fish such as the tilapia, silver carp, and silver dollar fish are all aquatic and can be used to control aquatic weeds. Water hyacinth has also been used indirectly to feed fish. Dehydrated water hyacinth has been added to the diet of channel catfish fingerlings to increase their growth. It has also been noted that decay of water hyacinth after chemical control releases nutrients which promote the growth of phytoplankton with subsequent increases in fish yield.

Water Hyacinth Ecological Value, Environmental Impacts

From the article above, some information for the Pig Farmers ...

5% of water hyacinth in the total diet of pigs leads to significantly weight gains. But feed containing 30 percent of more of hyacinth can reduce weight gain by over 90 percent. These tests show that water hyacinth as a feed for animals must be used with great care

Very interesting. Thanks David48 for this information.

[David48]

When the plant starts to cover larger surfaces I can imagine that the ability for the ponds surface to allow oxygen transfer to be diminshed.

Just for fun ... EatTheWeeds: Episode 38: Water Hyacinth

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[/media]

It does run for 9 mins ... so a good internet connection is required.

Edited June 12, 2012 by David48

[David48]

Further ...

Nutritive value and utilization of water hyacinth (Eichhornia crassipes) meal as plant protein supplement in the diet of Clarias gariepinus (Burchell, 1822) (Pisces: Clariidae) fingerlings

Clarias gariepinus are commonly called the African sharptooth catfish (don't worry, I had to look that up also).

ABSTRACT: 120 fingerlings of Clarias gariepinus were fed five different experimental 35% isoproteic diets, a control (0% water hyacinth) and four diets containing different levels of water hyacinth (10%, 20%, 30% and 40%) in place of fish meal as protein source at %% of the body weight for 70 days under laboratory condition.

The study revealed ...

[David48]

But enough of that malarky ... what are you guys doing?

Anyone using it either ith suspension on the pond's surface?

Or including it as part of the regular diet?

[ray23]

But enough of that malarky ... what are you guys doing?

Anyone using it either ith suspension on the pond's surface?

Or including it as part of the regular diet?

Well I have added grass cuttings to the menu they eat it. What value it has I have no idea. I guess it's lie sanck between meals. Those little sucker's eat 24/7

One thing does bother me they are starting to MOO

[IsaanAussie]

Hi Fish Farmers,

I am looking for some advice. I am starting to produce pelletised feed for my pigs and a range of other products. I have been asked by a friend if I can make floating feed for his Tilapia. The answer is yes I can but the components required seem to vary a lot. The attached is the latest information I have and am intending to use. Can anyone comment on the formulations or point at better information?

Tilapia feed.pdf

The pricing is a few years old so it will have to be reviewed.

Thanks for any help

Isaanaussie

Edit: My ultimate goal is to produce organic feed and use alternate materials [rpduced on farm. Hopefully I can produce a good feed at competitive prices.

Edited June 12, 2012 by IsaanAussie

[David48]

Hi Fish Farmers,

I am looking for some advice ...

Hi IsaanAussie, I great question and I will ask the better half in Thailand.

But that could take some time for a definite answer so, for the moment, I'll defer to others.

One observation though ... my gut feeling is that, after reading the attached .pdf, Thai Farmers would not go to so much trouble.

Western Farmers might take the more scientific approach though.

Will reply here when I have updated information for you.

Ozzie / Ray ?

[ozzydom]

IA,That formulation looks the goods, as you say pricing would have to be updated.

The current best prices for main components I can buy at are

Rice Bran = 6 bt kg

soybean meal = 17.5 bt kg

fish meal = 25.5 bt kg

[ozzydom]

David 48, small leaf duckweed should be fed to fish via a floating feed station to restrain the plant from spreading, this can be made from PVC tube.

Water hyacinth should be thoroughly dried and pulverised before feeding in the pond,

Billions are spent each year trying to eliminate this plant from waterways around the world ,anybody introducing live W/H to a waterway would be classed as an environmental vandal and in many countries cop huge penalties.

[IsaanAussie]

IA,That formulation looks the goods, as you say pricing would have to be updated.

The current best prices for main components I can buy at are

Rice Bran = 6 bt kg

soybean meal = 17.5 bt kg

fish meal = 25.5 bt kg

Agreed. The real answer is in using alternatives that arent being price driven by other uses. For instance, if I fertilise my pond properly from the pig sty I can push the protein content of duckweed up to over 40%. It has virtually no fibre and at that level can replace the soymeal. Fish meal is the same deal, I can use local trash fish and sun dry then or I can buy the fermented leftovers from a shell fish packing place near Rayong, either way a lot cheaper than the commercial stuff. There is always BSF larvae but I can find any around here.

But as with all things get it to work first and play around later. Many things I have been told and have read seem to suggest higher protein levels than 30%.

[IsaanAussie]

I have rerun the current prices and added the manufacturing cost to come up with 27 baht a kg for the fry blend, the most expensive. Substituting the alternate ingredients but at the same nutrient level I am aiming for about 21 baht. Or 420 baht a 20kg bag for fry feed. The others below that. Is that competitive?

[David48]

Well this is my 2,000^th post and, with the same respect that I had for my 1,000^th post, I return to you good Folk in the Farming Forum and post.

Here is the 1st clip (the 2nd I posted before) of two and the Night Harvest that occurs so that the fish are at the Market before Dawn.

So this is what 3,000 odd kilos of Fish look like awaiting transport.

Thanks to all who have read, replied and occasionally make positive comments even if they haven’t set foot on a Fish and Prawn Farm in Thailand ... or any part of the World!

I hope that I'm and let's not forget MissFarmGirl are still kicking around when it comes to post #3,000 ...

Edited June 15, 2012 by David48

[David48]

I have rerun the current prices and added the manufacturing cost to come up with 27 baht a kg for the fry blend, the most expensive. Substituting the alternate ingredients but at the same nutrient level I am aiming for about 21 baht. Or 420 baht a 20kg bag for fry feed. The others below that. Is that competitive?

IsaanAussie asks "420 baht a 20kg bag for fry feed ... Is that competitive?"

Mate I don't have the answer for you ... maybe others do.

The business man in me certainly says establish the selling market before production ... a 'back of the envelope' Business Plan.

[ozzydom]

I have rerun the current prices and added the manufacturing cost to come up with 27 baht a kg for the fry blend, the most expensive. Substituting the alternate ingredients but at the same nutrient level I am aiming for about 21 baht. Or 420 baht a 20kg bag for fry feed. The others below that. Is that competitive?

IA Is the "fry blend" in powder form or ball.?

In powder form I found during trials that soy meal sinks out of the mix and is lost to the fish.

I use frog food which is about the size of hundreds and thousands (nonparells) for my fry then go to small ball feed (1-2 mm) as soon as they can handle it.

Your anticipated price of 420 is pretty good for 30% protein.

[ray23]

I have rerun the current prices and added the manufacturing cost to come up with 27 baht a kg for the fry blend, the most expensive. Substituting the alternate ingredients but at the same nutrient level I am aiming for about 21 baht. Or 420 baht a 20kg bag for fry feed. The others below that. Is that competitive?

IA Is the "fry blend" in powder form or ball.?

In powder form I found during trials that soy meal sinks out of the mix and is lost to the fish.

I use frog food which is about the size of hundreds and thousands (nonparells) for my fry then go to small ball feed (1-2 mm) as soon as they can handle it.

Your anticipated price of 420 is pretty good for 30% protein.

Anything above 15.5% goes for 470 a bag here in Udon. But, it's not for fry. It's the bigger pellets.

[IsaanAussie]

I have rerun the current prices and added the manufacturing cost to come up with 27 baht a kg for the fry blend, the most expensive. Substituting the alternate ingredients but at the same nutrient level I am aiming for about 21 baht. Or 420 baht a 20kg bag for fry feed. The others below that. Is that competitive?

IA Is the "fry blend" in powder form or ball.?

In powder form I found during trials that soy meal sinks out of the mix and is lost to the fish.

I use frog food which is about the size of hundreds and thousands (nonparells) for my fry then go to small ball feed (1-2 mm) as soon as they can handle it.

Your anticipated price of 420 is pretty good for 30% protein.

Checking the sizes of extruder plate now, I hope to get under 1mm balls.

[IsaanAussie]

I have rerun the current prices and added the manufacturing cost to come up with 27 baht a kg for the fry blend, the most expensive. Substituting the alternate ingredients but at the same nutrient level I am aiming for about 21 baht. Or 420 baht a 20kg bag for fry feed. The others below that. Is that competitive?

IsaanAussie asks "420 baht a 20kg bag for fry feed ... Is that competitive?"

Mate I don't have the answer for you ... maybe others do.

The business man in me certainly says establish the selling market before production ... a 'back of the envelope' Business Plan.

David,

You have been busy with the posts. This is a new part of our business plan. The primary objective for me is to lower my pig feed bill. The ability to get more use out of the machinery on things like fish feed helps with the ROI. Take that a step further and the range of pellitised products we are targeting includes feed, fuel and fertilisers.

As most will know it is difficult to get higher than farm gate prices here for anything. I dont see that will change. But if I can lower my spending on retail buy-ins then things dont look so bad.

By the way I ran out of envelopes so I do most planning on the inside of old fag packets!