Give Thai People A Chance To Work, Not Free Handouts

[OzMick]

Ozmick, when your ability to ask a reasonable question in a reasonable manner is more evident you may garner a response to your questions, until such time I hope you do not find the absence of an explanation too "difficult" to understand

The traditional method of reply is to use the quote button. as it seems you don't like to back your assertions with facts, and I'm rude to ask you to do so, I'll help out with a few figures:

The BEST yield I have seen reported is 500kg /rai, the lowest 350.

Max subsidised price is B15,000 (but the current scheme gets very little to the farmer, 37% in its last try). This is a gross figure and doesn't allow for fertilizer, seed, extra labour........

On a 2 crop basis, a farming family would have a gross income of B15000/rai. Working 4 rai would achieve a gross income of B60,000pa or a subsistence level income of B5,000/m BEFORE farm input costs, IF he collects his subsidy and not forced to sell early. Of course, you can drop that again if he has non-optimal land.

Back to you - how many rai should a farmer work to earn what YOU call an income?

[Reasonableman]

Would you please go just one step further and tell us what they are. Many thanks.

Welfare system?? Comprehensive assistance? Who is going to pay for it if only 6% of the workforce pays taxes.

Dream on.

Tax is collected in a different way in Thailand and not on wages / salary, unless you reach a certain amount...! Many countries do not have income tax and manage extremely well.. Singapore for example.. You are Very narrow minded to think all countries operate in a similar style to your own.. In reality , income tax is a very stupid way to collect tax, and employs too many people on too big salaries.. But...Jobs for the Bhoys comes to mind..

100% correct.......there are much better ways to tax than taxing the working back bone of a country.

[473geo]

Ozmick, when your ability to ask a reasonable question in a reasonable manner is more evident you may garner a response to your questions, until such time I hope you do not find the absence of an explanation too "difficult" to understand

The traditional method of reply is to use the quote button. as it seems you don't like to back your assertions with facts, and I'm rude to ask you to do so, I'll help out with a few figures:

The BEST yield I have seen reported is 500kg /rai, the lowest 350.

Max subsidised price is B15,000 (but the current scheme gets very little to the farmer, 37% in its last try). This is a gross figure and doesn't allow for fertilizer, seed, extra labour........

On a 2 crop basis, a farming family would have a gross income of B15000/rai. Working 4 rai would achieve a gross income of B60,000pa or a subsistence level income of B5,000/m BEFORE farm input costs, IF he collects his subsidy and not forced to sell early. Of course, you can drop that again if he has non-optimal land.

Back to you - how many rai should a farmer work to earn what YOU call an income?

I guess I'm just not a traditional guy Mick

In answer to your income question, the average rice farmer can exist on very little, the profit on the rice they sell is actually mostly disposable income

Food, local fish from the paddies and home made ponds, homegrown chicken and eggs, vegetables usually purchased locally for a few baht, often a family pig, also ducks

Purchasing power is assisted by minimal use of electricity thus rendering it free, water from rain or bore holes, and the occasional profit from cattle reared on the rice land when the crop is taken

I point out this is one crop farming

Now think back.......my initial comment was the importance of a back up family smallholding for survival when employment disappears, giving the displaced earner the opportunity to survive on the family smallholding while seeking alternative employment.......I think the above provides exacty that don't you?

Edited March 4, 2012 by 473geo

[473geo]

Would you please go just one step further and tell us what they are. Many thanks.

Welfare system?? Comprehensive assistance? Who is going to pay for it if only 6% of the workforce pays taxes.

Dream on.

Tax is collected in a different way in Thailand and not on wages / salary, unless you reach a certain amount...! Many countries do not have income tax and manage extremely well.. Singapore for example.. You are Very narrow minded to think all countries operate in a similar style to your own.. In reality , income tax is a very stupid way to collect tax, and employs too many people on too big salaries.. But...Jobs for the Bhoys comes to mind..

100% correct.......there are much better ways to tax than taxing the working back bone of a country.

Any purchase tax

[Reasonableman]

We already have VAT, which people who already pay income tax also pay. Do you propse to abolish income tax? Where will the shortfall come from? Will there be exemptions from a purchase/consumption tax for some? How will corporations be taxed? As we have seen, they seem to find ways to avoid tax that the income-taxed wage and salary earner does not. So it seems 6% pay income tax, which is then redistributed to the benefit of all via the government. Would the poor be better off without the funds derived from that income tax, or would they end up paying more, or would taxation have a threshold, even VAT?

[473geo]

We already have VAT, which people who already pay income tax also pay. Do you propse to abolish income tax? Where will the shortfall come from? Will there be exemptions from a purchase/consumption tax for some? How will corporations be taxed? As we have seen, they seem to find ways to avoid tax that the income-taxed wage and salary earner does not. So it seems 6% pay income tax, which is then redistributed to the benefit of all via the government. Would the poor be better off without the funds derived from that income tax, or would they end up paying more, or would taxation have a threshold, even VAT?

In my view purchase tax is a more evenly distributed tax on all the population. Purchase tax takes the strain off the income tax system, which of course is why we have it, you will notice in Thailand the tax is at the moment low. When you raise the purchase tax you raise funding to allow controlled 'rebate' process to those most in need. Purchase tax also offers the benefit to rid the nation of the confrontational and devisive attitude that those who work are paying for those who are unemployed, pensioners etc.......although that would in general remain the truth, those who are in employment may feel they can actually control at least a portion of their input by selective spending.

[Reasonableman]

That answers some of the questions, thanks. At the moment, income tax levels are low and a low % of the population pay. There is a nascent social security system that provides minimal support to the sick, unemployed, aged, etc., to permit them a dignified standard of living. Won't the increasing taxes required to fund social services still come from consumers, the mainstay of a theoretically ever-expanding capitalist economy? In other words, won't the consumer be required to bear the brunt, and consumption shrink due to its increased cost? And those industries and services that rely on everincreasing consumption in this scenario, what happens to them?

I have no axe to grind here. Just asking what you think.

[473geo]

That answers some of the questions, thanks. At the moment, income tax levels are low and a low % of the population pay. There is a nascent social security system that provides minimal support to the sick, unemployed, aged, etc., to permit them a dignified standard of living. Won't the increasing taxes required to fund social services still come from consumers, the mainstay of a theoretically ever-expanding capitalist economy? In other words, won't the consumer be required to bear the brunt, and consumption shrink due to its increased cost? And those industries and services that rely on everincreasing consumption in this scenario, what happens to them?

I have no axe to grind here. Just asking what you think.

There is a train of thought that control of consumerism is a more reliable plan for economic security, consumerism has been linked to inflation

Keep inflation low and sell your product abroad?

Edited March 4, 2012 by 473geo

[OzMick]

Ozmick, when your ability to ask a reasonable question in a reasonable manner is more evident you may garner a response to your questions, until such time I hope you do not find the absence of an explanation too "difficult" to understand

The traditional method of reply is to use the quote button. as it seems you don't like to back your assertions with facts, and I'm rude to ask you to do so, I'll help out with a few figures:

The BEST yield I have seen reported is 500kg /rai, the lowest 350.

Max subsidised price is B15,000 (but the current scheme gets very little to the farmer, 37% in its last try). This is a gross figure and doesn't allow for fertilizer, seed, extra labour........

On a 2 crop basis, a farming family would have a gross income of B15000/rai. Working 4 rai would achieve a gross income of B60,000pa or a subsistence level income of B5,000/m BEFORE farm input costs, IF he collects his subsidy and not forced to sell early. Of course, you can drop that again if he has non-optimal land.

Back to you - how many rai should a farmer work to earn what YOU call an income?

I guess I'm just not a traditional guy Mick

In answer to your income question, the average rice farmer can exist on very little, the profit on the rice they sell is actually mostly disposable income

Food, local fish from the paddies and home made ponds, homegrown chicken and eggs, vegetables usually purchased locally for a few baht, often a family pig, also ducks

Purchasing power is assisted by minimal use of electricity thus rendering it free, water from rain or bore holes, and the occasional profit from cattle reared on the rice land when the crop is taken

I point out this is one crop farming

Now think back.......my initial comment was the importance of a back up family smallholding for survival when employment disappears, giving the displaced earner the opportunity to survive on the family smallholding while seeking alternative employment.......I think the above provides exacty that don't you?

yes, subsistence farming is wonderful until YOU gave to do it.

[Sing_Sling]

I'm a Singaporean and i work and pay income tax! Unless a person who works in Singapore earns less than S$30,000/annum (that is 720,000baht/annum), you don't pay income tax.

Yup - of course there is income tax in Singapore, I paid every year for six years while there - there are very FEW countries that have no system of work-related taxation.

Welfare system?? Comprehensive assistance? Who is going to pay for it if only 6% of the workforce pays taxes.

Dream on.

Many countries do not have income tax and manage extremely well.. Singapore for example.. You are Very narrow minded to think all countries operate in a similar style to your own.. In reality , income tax is a very stupid way to collect tax, and employs too many people on too big salaries.. But...Jobs for the Bhoys comes to mind..

Yes, narrow minded . . .

[tlansford]

Starting right now, educators in this country need to stop with the "mai pen rai"/don't think too much-attitude. They need to start training Thai people to become skilled or at least semi-skilled in a range of different vocational skills. Language and ESPECIALLY computer skills need to be taken seriously (most Thais graduate and can barely type, let alone format an Excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop; skills seem relegated to the Angry Birds category). They need to take the Thai teachers out of the classroom during English lessons, adopt a curriculum or at least some curricular standards, and set a standardized 40000 THB/per month entry wage for degree-qualified foreign English teachers (who should pass a police background check and health check, which will weed out most of the lames, drunks, and pedophiles). Then the government needs to work to provide a variety of meaningful, well-paid occupations to Thai people who show special initiative and skills (NOT money). Do I think these things could happen? Sure. But not today, or tomorrow, or the next day, or many, many days to come. Firstly, the government's right arm needs to stop fighting with it's left arm everytime something is to be done.

I take it from your reply that you are a teacher and from your reply, this is a step in the right direction to address education in the long term.

What the article is talking about is people that have been laid off due to the flood situation, and with all honesty, i don't see that being able to format an excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop is going to be an advantage to say a 4G qualified welder or a crane operator. I am not having a go at foreign teachers here, but the general mind set from them is based on the curriculum that they follow in the classroom, as it should be, but with no reality of the actual working areas of Thailand.

In my opinion, for the greater part, there is too much emphasis given to English language learning in this country and more of this time should be given to teaching trades. The majority of Thais will never get to a position where they will need to speak English, and those that do make it, and show the potential should be afforded the knowledge of the language teachers. This is the harsh reality of Thailand.

BTW, if the school you are at can afford legal licences for Microsoft Office and Adobe Photoshop for its students, then you are far above the general working Thais educational limits to begin with.

"can afford legal licences for Microsoft Office"

OpenOffice is free.

[tlansford]

- sniper -

Any purchase tax

reinstate capital gains taxes.