International community to resume nuclear talks with Iran

[Steely Dan]

Show us a link demonstrating Israel has the technology to block all incoming nuclear weapons.

Although a little personal research would diminish your daily post count it would be really beneficial to you, it's easy, it just takes time.

Israel, amongst other things has

1. MIM-23 Hawk, a medium range radar guided surface-to-air missile and longest serving system, it is also the network's most victorious.

2. MIM-104 Patriot , a High to Medium Air Defense (HIMAD) medium tactical air defense platform capable of downing ballistic missiles

3. Arrow Missile system, an Israeli developed Theatre Missile Defence (TMD) system meant to stop ballistic missiles in the Stratosphere.

You can do your own research, but basically Patriot would stop anything. Patriot AND Arrow would not let anything through. Both missile systems are extensively deployed and manned 365/24/7

Downing a missile IS rocket science, there is no guarantee you will be able to stop every incoming missile and to assume you can is an enormous gamble.

[Ulysses G.]

Show us a link demonstrating Israel has the technology to block all incoming nuclear weapons.

You can do your own research, but basically Patriot would stop anything. Patriot AND Arrow would not let anything through.

I did my own research and it is no secret that neither Israeli anti-aircraft nor anti-missile defenses will provide total security against Arab nuclear weapons. Israel has good reason to prevent those maniacs in Tehran from acquiring them.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[nong38]

It is better to wait and let Iran make the first move and then respond, keep the moral high ground, rather than invite the terrorists responses from Lebanon and Gaza.

Israel cannot be sure they will do the job and without that its a risky strategy. Terror would be exported around the globe, its not worth it.

[GentlemanJim]

Show us a link demonstrating Israel has the technology to block all incoming nuclear weapons.

You can do your own research, but basically Patriot would stop anything. Patriot AND Arrow would not let anything through.

I did my own research and it is no secret that neither Israeli anti-aircraft nor anti-missile defenses will provide total security against Arab nuclear weapons. Israel has good reason to prevent those maniacs in Tehran from acquiring them.

Well maybe your research wasn't good enough. Try here if you can understand it.

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,241428,00.html

Nothing can provide a 100% guarantee can it. Is that your measuring stick now for the reason to invade a sovereign territory. As I said above and as you will see at the link, the Israeli air defence system is without doubt one of the best in the world, bettered only by the US air defence system, but they (the US) have a long time to plan an intercept. In terms of proximity to potential enemy, time from launch to intercept etc, the Israeli system IS the best in the world.

[Jingthing]

It's so easy to assert Israel doesn't have legitimate concerns and has adequate defenses from the comfort and safety of not living in TINY Israel.

[philw]

Talking probably isn't worth much, but it's what has to be done before any type of military action.

I doubt they are getting rid of any incriminating evidence....I think they are moving it to more secure locations.

And yes, everyone will speak badly about Israel, but, hey that's pretty much what happens no matter what Israel does.

If I were an Israeli, I would be more than happy to be alive to counter the bad-mouthing. In the end, a lot of people will be happy if they disable the Iranian nuclear aspirations.

You want a war and a further destabilisation of the world ???

[GentlemanJim]

It's so easy to assert Israel doesn't have legitimate concerns and has adequate defenses from the comfort and safety of not living in TINY Israel.

Wrong Jingthing. I have been to Israel in a military capacity and have seen first hand the extent and capability of their military machine. Amongst the best combat pilots in the world and they have ALL the latest gucci kit including the best air defence setup and a small territory to protect, it doesn't get easier to be honest.. It is 'so easy to assert' (as you put it) that we should embark on another military attack/war against another sovereign nation where hundreds of thousands would be killed from the comfort and safety of not being in the military or having any offspring in the military, AND whilst not living in TINY Israel.

[philw]

It's so easy to assert Israel doesn't have legitimate concerns and has adequate defenses from the comfort and safety of not living in TINY Israel.

Why doesn't TINY Israel offer a solution ??

We remove or disarm our nukes, you don't develop yours ???

TINY Israel actually does have an opportunity to defuse and make peace.

It would actually be a magnificent political statement.

We cancel our nuclear capability, you cancel yours.

Take away the heat...........

If they offered that, nobody could do anything but applaud.

Instead it's nukes for us but not for you........Can't blame the Iranians for feeling threatened.

It's ok that we can obliterate you, on our whim but you dare not threaten us, or defend yourself, even by implication.

Edited March 8, 2012 by philw

[Jingthing]

It's so easy to assert Israel doesn't have legitimate concerns and has adequate defenses from the comfort and safety of not living in TINY Israel.

Wrong Jingthing. I have been to Israel in a military capacity and have seen first hand the extent and capability of their military machine. Amongst the best combat pilots in the world and they have ALL the latest gucci kit including the best air defence setup and a small territory to protect, it doesn't get easier to be honest.. It is 'so easy to assert' (as you put it) that we should embark on another military attack/war against another sovereign nation where hundreds of thousands would be killed from the comfort and safety of not being in the military or having any offspring in the military, AND whilst not living in TINY Israel.

Hundreds of thousands killed? You don't know that. More likely the focused strikes happen, Iran retaliates to save face and then goes back to their program again from a new point.

[midas]

The U.S. Ready to Attack Iran according to Defense Secretary

When it comes to warmongering and increasing the size and authority of the state, the opinion of the people matters little. This has always been the golden rule of statism. War with Iran is coming despite all opposition

The truth amounts to very little on the eve of war. Iraq and the lies surrounding weapons of mass destruction proved this lesson almost a decade ago. Unfortunately for the people of America, Israel, and Iran, the political class and power wielders of their respective governments refuse to learn. Their desire is for more authority and prestige; no matter how many bodies it costs.

http://millergd.blogspot.com/

[Ulysses G.]

Show us a link demonstrating Israel has the technology to block all incoming nuclear weapons.

You can do your own research, but basically Patriot would stop anything. Patriot AND Arrow would not let anything through.

I did my own research and it is no secret that neither Israeli anti-aircraft nor anti-missile defenses will provide total security against Arab nuclear weapons. Israel has good reason to prevent those maniacs in Tehran from acquiring them.

Well maybe your research wasn't good enough. Try here if you can understand it.

http://www.military....,241428,00.html

i understand it enought to know that it is mostly talking about the future.

[GentlemanJim]

Well maybe your research wasn't good enough. Try here if you can understand it.

http://www.military....,241428,00.html

i understand it enought to know that it is mostly talking about the future.

NO, it is now. They also talk about upgrades in 2013 (in service, complete). The recently planned joint exercise was to display just how effective the air defence screen is. I don't really think you understand much of it at all do you, so your continued use of the rolling eyes smiley is a little silly don't you think.

Is your pic how the world looks in 2013? or are you trying to be smart again (and failing).

[Jingthing]

They can talk all they want. Why will Iran stop unless they are forced to?

Iran is not being completely open about its nuclear program, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency told CNN on Wednesday.

"We have the indication or information that Iran has engaged in activities relevant to the development of nuclear explosive devices," Yukiya Amano told CNN.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/iaea-chief-iran-not-telling-us-everything-about-its-nuclear-program-1.417283

[necronx99]

My two cents.

1. Iran is implacably determined to aquire a nuke.

While the current regime is openly hostile to Israel, whether they would seek to initiate the use of a nuke knowing the eventual atomic retaliation would turn them into a smoking glass carpark is unknown. They are not however led by rational persons, but the Republican Guard could be possibly more rational than either the theocratic or political leaders and it would likely be they who retain the key to the nukes.

Their desire for a nuke would take off the table any option to supply lightwater reactors operated under supervision in exchange for their giving up their domestic approach. Given point 3 below their desire for a nuke as a deterent cannot be completely discounted.

2. Isreal does not have the capability to destroy Iranian installations with conventional attacks without full US air support. Iran today is not Iraq from the 80's. I do not believe that Isreals F16's and Strike Eagles have the capacity to launch conventional attacks to destroy Iranian atomic installations. Conversely, should Iran aquire or develop missile capable nukes Israel does not have the ability to prevent a ballistic delivery from succeeding. An Iranian ballistic delivery missile would be far superior to the scuds. The Patriot system struggled against scuds from Iraq and could not be relied upon to prevent an attack. The Arrow system has been tested..against scuds. There are only two Arrow

installations each with limited supplies of missiles. A 100% defense is theoretical at best. given the geography Iran would only have to be lucky once. If Iran were to demonstrate nuke capacity a preemptive strike by Israel is likely.

3. US hawks see a destabilised Iran as an improvement to it's current global position regardless of the nuke situation. They would rather see a completely destabilised middle east than face the status quo and see any nuke armed Arab state as totally unaceptable. They will go to war to prevent this. Non military measures (sanctions) will only accelerate Irans drive and ultimately will precipitate the war the US so desperately wants toshore up it's increasingly fragile economy.

In short, check your ammunition and watch this space.

Edited March 8, 2012 by necronx99

[Colin Yai]

It is better to wait and let Iran make the first move and then respond, keep the moral high ground, rather than invite the terrorists responses from Lebanon and Gaza.

Israel cannot be sure they will do the job and without that its a risky strategy. Terror would be exported around the globe, its not worth it.

Terrorist responses from Gaza and the Lebanon? ,Ahh I yes I remember now Iran is funding and arming Hamas and Hezbollah to fight an almost proxy war for them against Israel . Edited March 8, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Ulysses G.]

Well maybe your research wasn't good enough. Try here if you can understand it.

http://www.military....,241428,00.html

i understand it enought to know that it is mostly talking about the future.

NO, it is now.

There seems to be a large number of rockets getting in all the time. Maybe you don't understand it as well as you insist in order to to make a rather fallacious point..

Edited March 8, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

One post with only a link has been deleted. It is a discussion forum.

Please keep in mind that the OP is about Iran and not Israel. Discussion of Israel needs to include an Iranian connection.

[exeter]

Pakistan has abomb for over 10 years now, a muslim bomb is not new.

Iran is most certainly provocative but Israel must show utmost restraint, this situation could easily get out of control.

[Pakboong]

Right. It's not a popularity contest for Israel. There are much more important considerations. That said, I have no idea what they should do now. Most countries are worried about gas prices, who wins American idol, etc.. Israel is worried about existence crises. Iran is being squeezed now, yes, but no country is threatening their existence as a state/country for their majority ethic population. Also, yes of course Israel's current military is stronger than Iran's (or its closer neighbors). If it wasn't, there would be no Israel. I know many people will deny that obvious fact, but generally, they are people who have drunk the anti-Zionist Koolaid.

According to many, Iran supplies Hamas, you would think they would give them some good stuff that could actually do some damage not to mention, actually test these air defense systems. That would seem logical to pretty much anyone. It does not however, ever seem to happen. The intricate tunnels, weapons stock piles, etc... actually produce very little in the way of terror, and do nothing to tip Israel's hand with regard to their ability to defend against the lethal stuff instead of the made in Gaza bottle rockets which fall harmlessly in the desert. The Grad rocket is the most lethal weapon at use by Hamas and they are worthless. If Iran was actually the terror logistics provider that many believe they are, you would certainly think they could do a much better job of it.

[Jingthing]

Right. It's not a popularity contest for Israel. There are much more important considerations. That said, I have no idea what they should do now. Most countries are worried about gas prices, who wins American idol, etc.. Israel is worried about existence crises. Iran is being squeezed now, yes, but no country is threatening their existence as a state/country for their majority ethic population. Also, yes of course Israel's current military is stronger than Iran's (or its closer neighbors). If it wasn't, there would be no Israel. I know many people will deny that obvious fact, but generally, they are people who have drunk the anti-Zionist Koolaid.

According to many, Iran supplies Hamas, you would think they would give them some good stuff that could actually do some damage not to mention, actually test these air defense systems. That would seem logical to pretty much anyone. It does not however, ever seem to happen. The intricate tunnels, weapons stock piles, etc... actually produce very little in the way of terror, and do nothing to tip Israel's hand with regard to their ability to defend against the lethal stuff instead of the made in Gaza bottle rockets which fall harmlessly in the desert. The Grad rocket is the most lethal weapon at use by Hamas and they are worthless. If Iran was actually the terror logistics provider that many believe they are, you would certainly think they could do a much better job of it.

You sound rather disappointed that Iran and Iran's proxies have been unsuccessful so far in accomplishing their oft stated goal of putting an end to the Jewish state of Israel. Nobody is denying Israel has the strong military in this conflict. As if that's a bad thing!

[Steely Dan]

Right. It's not a popularity contest for Israel. There are much more important considerations. That said, I have no idea what they should do now. Most countries are worried about gas prices, who wins American idol, etc.. Israel is worried about existence crises. Iran is being squeezed now, yes, but no country is threatening their existence as a state/country for their majority ethic population. Also, yes of course Israel's current military is stronger than Iran's (or its closer neighbors). If it wasn't, there would be no Israel. I know many people will deny that obvious fact, but generally, they are people who have drunk the anti-Zionist Koolaid.

According to many, Iran supplies Hamas, you would think they would give them some good stuff that could actually do some damage not to mention, actually test these air defense systems. That would seem logical to pretty much anyone. It does not however, ever seem to happen. The intricate tunnels, weapons stock piles, etc... actually produce very little in the way of terror, and do nothing to tip Israel's hand with regard to their ability to defend against the lethal stuff instead of the made in Gaza bottle rockets which fall harmlessly in the desert. The Grad rocket is the most lethal weapon at use by Hamas and they are worthless. If Iran was actually the terror logistics provider that many believe they are, you would certainly think they could do a much better job of it.

You sound rather disappointed that Iran and Iran's proxies have been unsuccessful so far in accomplishing their oft stated goal of putting an end to the Jewish state of Israel. Nobody is denying Israel has the strong military in this conflict. As if that's a bad thing!

Indeed, just as Jews became prominent in the banking system when it was one of the few jobs open to them we now have a thriving hi-tech military industry in Israel as a direct result of her enemies constant wish to wipe her off the map.

[Pakboong]

Right. It's not a popularity contest for Israel. There are much more important considerations. That said, I have no idea what they should do now. Most countries are worried about gas prices, who wins American idol, etc.. Israel is worried about existence crises. Iran is being squeezed now, yes, but no country is threatening their existence as a state/country for their majority ethic population. Also, yes of course Israel's current military is stronger than Iran's (or its closer neighbors). If it wasn't, there would be no Israel. I know many people will deny that obvious fact, but generally, they are people who have drunk the anti-Zionist Koolaid.

According to many, Iran supplies Hamas, you would think they would give them some good stuff that could actually do some damage not to mention, actually test these air defense systems. That would seem logical to pretty much anyone. It does not however, ever seem to happen. The intricate tunnels, weapons stock piles, etc... actually produce very little in the way of terror, and do nothing to tip Israel's hand with regard to their ability to defend against the lethal stuff instead of the made in Gaza bottle rockets which fall harmlessly in the desert. The Grad rocket is the most lethal weapon at use by Hamas and they are worthless. If Iran was actually the terror logistics provider that many believe they are, you would certainly think they could do a much better job of it.

You sound rather disappointed that Iran and Iran's proxies have been unsuccessful so far in accomplishing their oft stated goal of putting an end to the Jewish state of Israel. Nobody is denying Israel has the strong military in this conflict. As if that's a bad thing!

Indeed, just as Jews became prominent in the banking system when it was one of the few jobs open to them we now have a thriving hi-tech military industry in Israel as a direct result of her enemies constant wish to wipe her off the map.

No doubt this is true. My point was a simple one. The Israelis repeatedly claim that Iran is supplying missiles to Hamas. It would be no more difficult to get a shoulder fired guided system to Hamas than it would be to get the worthless grad rockets which have no guidance system at all.

"...And the problem with the Iranian government is not only that they're trying to build a bomb, but that they became the center of international terror. They don't respect human rights. Now they are financing Hamas, preventing the Palestinians from getting together, sending them arms and bombs and missiles, and encouraging them to shoot and kill."

Shimon Peres

If the situation is as Peres claims, we should be seeing some more leathal ordinance out of Hamas but for the last decade, it has been only the old worn out essentially useless stuff. Does it not make sense to give Hamas something with which to do some real damage? The logistical effort is difficult and elaborate so where are the bombs and missiles which Peres mentions above?

[Scott]

The point I am missing in this discussion is the role of the out-dated military equipment. Are you saying the armaments are not being supplied by Iran?

[GentlemanJim]

The drive of the argument as I see it is that getting a useless grad rocket from Iran is just as logistically challenging as getting a high quality SAM shoulder launched missile system. Ergo, if you are going to go to the trouble of providing armaments why not provide munitions that will give Hamas a decent chance of inflicting pain on their enemy. A modern SAM is quite capable of bringing down a helicopter or fixed wing, depending on the counter measures used on the aircraft. IF Iran are supporting Hamas by providing weapons, why are they not giving them something that is modern with a bit of clout to it? Therefore the question is, where do the Grad rockets come from?

[Pakboong]

The point I am missing in this discussion is the role of the out-dated military equipment. Are you saying the armaments are not being supplied by Iran?

I am saying that if they are being supplied by Iran, why wouldn't Iran give Hamas something a bit more lethal. After all, they have an entire inventory of Chinese, Russian and their own versions, why does Hamas only have rockets that repeatedly fall harmlessly in the desert.

We have been talking about WMDs, air defense systems, etc.. and Iran cannot get a decent weapon to their main proxy.

[Ulysses G.]

Therefore the question is, where do the Grad rockets come from?

The answer is from Iran, but many of the rockets are home made.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[Steely Dan]

The point I am missing in this discussion is the role of the out-dated military equipment. Are you saying the armaments are not being supplied by Iran?

I am saying that if they are being supplied by Iran, why wouldn't Iran give Hamas something a bit more lethal. After all, they have an entire inventory of Chinese, Russian and their own versions, why does Hamas only have rockets that repeatedly fall harmlessly in the desert.

We have been talking about WMDs, air defense systems, etc.. and Iran cannot get a decent weapon to their main proxy.

Plausible deniability.

[philw]

Therefore the question is, where do the Grad rockets come from?

The answer is from Iran, but many of the rockets are home made.

Exactly, and they are generally ineffective.

Rather defeats your argument does it not.

[GentlemanJim]

Therefore the question is, where do the Grad rockets come from?

The answer is from Iran, but many of the rockets are home made.

They are either from Iran OR they are home made. Israel doesn't get one F16 from the USA and then make their own does it. If I were the boss of Hamas I think I would be changing my supplier.

Steely's comment concerning plausible deniability has merit.

[necronx99]

Therefore the question is, where do the Grad rockets come from?

The answer is from Iran, but many of the rockets are home made.

They are either from Iran OR they are home made. Israel doesn't get one F16 from the USA and then make their own does it. If I were the boss of Hamas I think I would be changing my supplier.

Steely's comment concerning plausible deniability has merit.

I think there is another angle you are not seeing.

Iran do not expect Hamas to destroy Israel, or even hurt it. The point of these attacks is simply to keep the Israeli reprisals coming. This keeps the region on a war footing, maintains the general hate in the region and prevents any sort of reasonable settlement with the Palestinians.

If Iran were to supply truly effective weapons that caused actual damage it would likely precipitate a war that Iran is not quite ready for. The first truly effective weapon they supply will be a suitcase nuke.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Edited March 9, 2012 by necronx99