The Quest For A Practical Peace Continues: Thai Opinion

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EDITORIAL

The quest for a practical peace continues

The Nation

Proposals for national reconciliation seem to be getting more unrealistic

BANGKOK: -- The King Prajadhipok's Institute's "reconciliation" proposal is not the first and will not be the last such idea to be attacked for its "divisive" undertone. The KPI has suggested three options to deal with the past work of the Assets Examination Committee (AEC), arguably the most controversial outshoot of the 2006 coup. To the institute, anti-corruption probes conducted by the AEC should be nullified for ongoing cases while finalised cases are not to be touched, or finalised cases are retried in a normal justice system, or both ongoing and finalised cases are nullified.

It's the last option that has raised many eyebrows. Total nullification of both ongoing and finalised cases will whitewash Thaksin Shinawatra, pure and simple. The KPI has been asked how that can ever bring reconciliation to Thailand, which is now polarised between those believing he is a victim of injustice and those absolutely certain that he is guilty as sin. The institute is not being confronted with evidence that Thaksin may have really abused power, but it is being asked how a proposal that a lot of Thais will find unacceptable can ever re-install political peace in the country.

The institute's proposal mirrored a campaign by the Nitirat movement, which seeks to erase legal consequences of the coup. Nitirat is accused of trying to help Thaksin because other coup consequences affecting anybody else other than him are either expiring or made irrelevant by the Pheu Thai Party's convincing election triumph. The banned politicians are coming back, regardless of what happens to legal consequences of the coup, and the dissolution of the Thai Rak Thai and People Power parties was effectively rebuked by voters in July last year.

Only Thaksin is still suffering from legal outcomes of the coup. His party has won back political power and his younger sister now serves as Thailand's first female prime minister. Economic and social policies she advocates, whether they are controversial or not, are either being implemented or clearing political hurdles. Her "mandate", when national interests are concerned, is not being impeded, at least not by the 2006 coup.

Remaining consequences of that coup have to do with something that does not involve governing of the nation. They are primarily related to whether Thaksin broke the law when his ex-wife bought land on Ratchadapisek and the massive wealth that was taken from him just before the bloody political turmoil. That is why Nitirat and KPI have been questioned for saying that the idea to have legal impacts from the coup erased has nothing to do with Thaksin.

The KPI's idea of retrying Thaksin seems the most sensible reconciliation option. One little problem needs to be sorted out, though. Thaksin never accepts he was wrong in allowing his ex-wife Pojaman to buy the Ratchadapisek block. Senior government politicians have emphasised what Thaksin believes - that while he might have violated the law, he was not wrong. With Thaksin apparently believing that the law is unfair, how can a re-trial be possible? Will he accept a reduced sentence while still being branded guilty, or is his bottom-line a "not guilty" verdict and anything short of that is unacceptable?

To join the KPI and Nitirat in the political focus soon is the ad hoc House reconciliation committee that commissioned the KPI to do its study. The panel, ironically led by 2006 coup leader Sonthi Boonyaratglin, will review the KPI proposal and have to come up with its own report. No matter how much the KPI proposal sounds like a slap on his face, Sonthi seems compromising and ready to embrace drastic ideas. The irony in Thailand's "reconciliation", it seems, is fast outgrowing any semblance of practicality. And stranger things may yet be in store for all politically weary Thais.

-- The Nation 2012-03-11

[yoshiwara]

I doubt that other than a few deluded academics see the so-called reconciliation process as other than a vehicle to get Thaksin back to Thailand with a get-out-of-jail-card. In fact the academics pushing such are probably less innocent than they claim to be. They know where all this is leading and still want to be seen as virginal in their not-so cloistered rooms. In practice they purely provide cover for Chalerm and are soberly tied to his apron strings. Years ago, there was a term for these guys: 'fellow travellers'.

[pimay11]

Senior government politicians have emphasised what Thaksin believes - that while he might have violated the law, he was not wrong.

The intelligence of any judge in Thailand or any other country would be insulted if this defence was used by a defendant. Evidently Thaksin and his minions view the Thai people as being stupid enough to accept this.

[CalgaryII]

The quest for a practical peace continues, #1^

"Remaining consequences of that coup have to do with something that does not involve governing of the nation. They are primarily related to whether Thaksin broke the law when his ex-wife bought land on Ratchadapisek and the massive wealth that was taken from him just before the bloody political turmoil".

All consequences of the coup involve current Governance.

Anything to do with Thaksin legalities were launched, advocated and advanced by the self-serving coup perps.

As someone else mentioned on here, when dealing with Thai Politicians, there is a less than savoury MO about them, that one hopes evolvement of better Democratic practices will begin to address.

To single out Thaksin as the mother-of-all political deviants is self-serving to the extreme by the coupists.

They have long since been discreditted, especially so in last years election.

"Bloody political turmoil"?......First came the coup...... next came the taxpayer challenge to the coup....next came the bloody political turmoil initiated by the coup perps against said taxpayers, to protect their ill-gotten gains....gains thoroughly refuted by the electorate last year.

"The KPI's idea of retrying Thaksin seems the most sensible reconciliation option. One little problem needs to be sorted out, though. Thaksin never accepts he was wrong in allowing his ex-wife Pojaman to buy the Ratchadapisek block. Senior government politicians have emphasised what Thaksin believes - that while he might have violated the law, he was not wrong. With Thaksin apparently believing that the law is unfair, how can a re-trial be possible? Will he accept a reduced sentence while still being branded guilty, or is his bottom-line a "not guilty" verdict and anything short of that is unacceptable?"

Thaksin's coup inspired criminalization is null and void, considering its' origins.

To talk about verdicts and sentences is illogical considering the coupist roots of the thing.

"The irony in Thailand's "reconciliation", it seems, is fast outgrowing any semblance of practicality. And stranger things may yet be in store for all politically weary Thais"

Nobody is politically weary.

The unelectables perhaps are, but others are merely satisfied that the 'political ship' has been righted.

Edited March 11, 2012 by CalgaryII

[OzMick]

All rehabilitation and reconciliation processes begin with the first step - recognizing that you have a problem.

Thaksin would choke to death trying to utter "I was wrong." The sooner the better.

[CalgaryII]

All rehabilitation and reconciliation processes begin with the first step - recognizing that you have a problem.

Thaksin would choke to death trying to utter "I was wrong." The sooner the better.

The coupists would choke to death to accept they were wrong. The sooner the better.

But they have actually reaped the rewards of their mis-adventure.

The huge and widespread politicization of the populace was an unintended consequence. A politicization of their adversaries.

They in effect sowed the seeds of their own demise.

[gregb]

All rehabilitation and reconciliation processes begin with the first step - recognizing that you have a problem.

Thaksin would choke to death trying to utter "I was wrong." The sooner the better.

The coupists would choke to death to accept they were wrong. The sooner the better.

But they have actually reaped the rewards of their mis-adventure.

The huge and widespread politicization of the populace was an unintended consequence. A politicization of their adversaries.

They in effect sowed the seeds of their own demise.

Does anyone actually take you seriously? Do you simply spout pro Thaksin rhetoric for the privilege of typing? Perhaps you missed all the protests against the demagogue now in Dubai that were ongoing long before the coup?

The coup was a result of the attempts by the Thaksin regime to eviscerate the constitution and turn this country into a dictatorship.

Any peace or reconciliation starts by removing the source of the division. The courts let Thaksin skip bail willingly in the hope that exile would be sufficient to reach this. History has proven it wasn't.

The scourge of Thaksin needs to be completely eliminated once and for all so that peace and prosperity can return to this land. Any reconciliation necessarily has that as a prerequisite.

[Reasonableman]

Reminds me a dog dropping a t_rd on the living-room carpet, then sidling away before anyone can kick its butt.

Don't expect answers or reasoned debate, the m.o. is troll and broadcast. A waste of time.

[Unkomoncents]

All rehabilitation and reconciliation processes begin with the first step - recognizing that you have a problem.

Thaksin would choke to death trying to utter "I was wrong." The sooner the better.

The coupists would choke to death to accept they were wrong. The sooner the better.

But they have actually reaped the rewards of their mis-adventure.

The huge and widespread politicization of the populace was an unintended consequence. A politicization of their adversaries.

They in effect sowed the seeds of their own demise.

I don't know Calgaryll, but from your analysis it seems it might be time to get out your noose and hang everyone indiscriminately. Your absurd, utterly predictable ramblings coupled with your obsequious responses to your legions of detractors indicate that EVERYONE is to blame. Maybe we should just burn the place down and then (try to) build it up again.

[pimay11]

All rehabilitation and reconciliation processes begin with the first step - recognizing that you have a problem.

Thaksin would choke to death trying to utter "I was wrong." The sooner the better.

The coupists would choke to death to accept they were wrong. The sooner the better.

But they have actually reaped the rewards of their mis-adventure.

The huge and widespread politicization of the populace was an unintended consequence. A politicization of their adversaries.

They in effect sowed the seeds of their own demise.

Does anyone actually take you seriously? Do you simply spout pro Thaksin rhetoric for the privilege of typing? Perhaps you missed all the protests against the demagogue now in Dubai that were ongoing long before the coup?

The coup was a result of the attempts by the Thaksin regime to eviscerate the constitution and turn this country into a dictatorship.

Any peace or reconciliation starts by removing the source of the division. The courts let Thaksin skip bail willingly in the hope that exile would be sufficient to reach this. History has proven it wasn't.

The scourge of Thaksin needs to be completely eliminated once and for all so that peace and prosperity can return to this land. Any reconciliation necessarily has that as a prerequisite.

Of course no one takes him seriously. And you are correct. Until Thaksin or his lap dogs have no influence in Thai politics there will be no political peace.

[Sing_Sling]

I think he offers a refreshing alternative view to the one prevalent here . . . and the fact that everyone is quite adamant in putting him down, or trying to, is testament to that

[DP25]

how a proposal that a lot of Thais will find unacceptable can ever re-install political peace in the country.

They don't care if restores peace or not. There was 46 billion Baht confiscated from Thaksin and a lot of people will benefit from it being returned to him. He is generous with his minions, and maybe with his former enemies too, like all smart mafioso. The elephant gorges and all the dung beetles line up to feast on his droppings.

They know that pardoning Thaksin and returning his money will cause chaos, but once Thaksin has that money back he can afford to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on paying his red thugs and squashing any dissent. Anti Thaksin protestors will be met with bomb, gun, and sword and the streets will run red with the blood of all who oppose Thaksin.

[Sing_Sling]

They know that pardoning Thaksin and returning his money will cause chaos, but once Thaksin has that money back he can afford to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on paying his red thugs and squashing any dissent. Anti Thaksin protestors will be met with bomb, gun, and sword and the streets will run red with the blood of all who oppose Thaksin.

At least you're not prone to exaggeration . . . (Umm, you do know whose side the army is on, don't you? )

Ah, the most classic of all classic posts . . . from an avid FOX News follower

[hellodolly]

The quest for a practical peace continues, #1^

"Remaining consequences of that coup have to do with something that does not involve governing of the nation. They are primarily related to whether Thaksin broke the law when his ex-wife bought land on Ratchadapisek and the massive wealth that was taken from him just before the bloody political turmoil".

All consequences of the coup involve current Governance.

Anything to do with Thaksin legalities were launched, advocated and advanced by the self-serving coup perps.

As someone else mentioned on here, when dealing with Thai Politicians, there is a less than savoury MO about them, that one hopes evolvement of better Democratic practices will begin to address.

To single out Thaksin as the mother-of-all political deviants is self-serving to the extreme by the coupists.

They have long since been discreditted, especially so in last years election.

"Bloody political turmoil"?......First came the coup...... next came the taxpayer challenge to the coup....next came the bloody political turmoil initiated by the coup perps against said taxpayers, to protect their ill-gotten gains....gains thoroughly refuted by the electorate last year.

"The KPI's idea of retrying Thaksin seems the most sensible reconciliation option. One little problem needs to be sorted out, though. Thaksin never accepts he was wrong in allowing his ex-wife Pojaman to buy the Ratchadapisek block. Senior government politicians have emphasised what Thaksin believes - that while he might have violated the law, he was not wrong. With Thaksin apparently believing that the law is unfair, how can a re-trial be possible? Will he accept a reduced sentence while still being branded guilty, or is his bottom-line a "not guilty" verdict and anything short of that is unacceptable?"

Thaksin's coup inspired criminalization is null and void, considering its' origins.

To talk about verdicts and sentences is illogical considering the coupist roots of the thing.

"The irony in Thailand's "reconciliation", it seems, is fast outgrowing any semblance of practicality. And stranger things may yet be in store for all politically weary Thais"

Nobody is politically weary.

The unelectables perhaps are, but others are merely satisfied that the 'political ship' has been righted.

As usual sticking up for a convicted criminal.

Did it ever occur to you that if he was to drop dead today the reconciliation would happen at a munch faster pace.

It is the no nothings like you that keep pushing to have Thaksin returned and exonerated for his crimes that are slowing down the process. Makes no difference if the charges against him were politically motivated or not he was and still is guilty. When will you get that through your thick skull?

On the other hand if he were to die today who would tell Yingluck what to do.

[hellodolly]

I think he offers a refreshing alternative view to the one prevalent here . . . and the fact that everyone is quite adamant in putting him down, or trying to, is testament to that

Your to easily refreshed.

[Sing_Sling]

I think he offers a refreshing alternative view to the one prevalent here . . . and the fact that everyone is quite adamant in putting him down, or trying to, is testament to that

Your to easily refreshed.

So say the sheeple . . .

[animatic]

Thaksin doesn't care about realistic, he cares about POWER.

Practical power to make his face back, and because he craves little else.

Edited March 11, 2012 by animatic

[DP25]

Did it ever occur to you that if he was to drop dead today the reconciliation would happen at a munch faster pace.

That would be good for the nation. It would be very bad for the bank accounts of his minions. And then there is that 46 billion Baht just hanging there like an overstuffed pinata, with the rats trying to scurry in to position to catch some of it when it explodes

[CalgaryII]

how a proposal that a lot of Thais will find unacceptable can ever re-install political peace in the country.

They don't care if restores peace or not. There was 46 billion Baht confiscated from Thaksin and a lot of people will benefit from it being returned to him. He is generous with his minions, and maybe with his former enemies too, like all smart mafioso. The elephant gorges and all the dung beetles line up to feast on his droppings.

They know that pardoning Thaksin and returning his money will cause chaos, but once Thaksin has that money back he can afford to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on paying his red thugs and squashing any dissent. Anti Thaksin protestors will be met with bomb, gun, and sword and the streets will run red with the blood of all who oppose Thaksin.

"Paying red thugs"? - A little bit like the salaried, pro-coup aggressors attacking those who dared to stand up to said coup?

"Protesters met with bomb, gun and sword"? - A little bit like all those armanents in possession by the pro-coup forces, used to attack those who resisted?

"The streets run red with Blood of all oppose Thaksin"? - A little bit like 90 taxpayers slain resisting the coup. I remember one foto of blood literally trickling down the sidewalk of a coup-resister. Not just rhetoric....it was red!

A little bit like all of that DP25?

BTW, I remembered to quote your entire Post. I know you prefer that.

Edited March 11, 2012 by CalgaryII

[CalgaryII]

Thaksin doesn't care about realistic, he cares about POWER.

Practical power to make his face back, and because he craves little else.

The voters didn't seem to mind.

In fact they voted FOR it.

But then I forget....they are all idiots, preventing those entitled to govern from doing so.

Dam_n elections!

Edited March 11, 2012 by CalgaryII

[bigbamboo]

I think he offers a refreshing alternative view to the one prevalent here . . . and the fact that everyone is quite adamant in putting him down, or trying to, is testament to that

If he didn't exist someone on TV would have to invent him.

[animatic]

Thaksin doesn't care about realistic, he cares about POWER.

Practical power to make his face back, and because he craves little else.

The voters didn't seem to mind.

In fact they voted FOR it.

But then I forget....they are all idiots, preventing those entitled to govern from doing so.

Dam_n elections!

A percentage of the voters don't seem to understand what is a foot.

I won't call them mushrooms, but they spend to much time kept in the dark.

So maybe Mushroom Voters is apt. Goes well with Watermelon Police.

[hellodolly]

I think he offers a refreshing alternative view to the one prevalent here . . . and the fact that everyone is quite adamant in putting him down, or trying to, is testament to that

Your to easily refreshed.

So say the sheeple . . .

Judging from the responses here there are only two of you.

[Sing_Sling]

I think he offers a refreshing alternative view to the one prevalent here . . . and the fact that everyone is quite adamant in putting him down, or trying to, is testament to that

Your to easily refreshed.

So say the sheeple . . .

Judging from the responses here there are only two of you.

I see, now I belong to 'his' group . . . are you sure you know how to conduct a discussion with opposing viewpoints without being sophomoric about it?

[Bagwan]

I am beginning to think that the only way to bring about reconciliation and the populace working together towards agreed goals is brain transplants all round. That, or if giant steps forwards were to be made in A.I., that governance be hand over to a computer.

[Sing_Sling]

My first thought after reading the thread title was that there was actually a new and potentially useful idea at addressing the troubles in the south . . . but then that's never going to happen as long as Bangkok treats that sector of the population as second-class citizens, or worse

[yoshiwara]

I think he offers a refreshing alternative view to the one prevalent here . . . and the fact that everyone is quite adamant in putting him down, or trying to, is testament to that

Refreshing is not quite the right word. The trouble with self-proclaimed political so-called junkies is that they forget that a junkie is someone who injects themselves with a poison that is going to eventually kill them and post-injection talk whatever rubbish will get them their next fix. A suitable description here of a wannabe Thaksin apologist. It is worth noting that for a number of Westerners, Thailand provides a perfect playground for their juvenile liberationist fantasies. They think they are on the left, but in their own countries generally run a mile from any serious socialist organisation. Having the opportunity to hitch their poor political understanding to an adventurist crook flirting with neo-fascism is sooo exciting. Not quite grown up posturing. And so it goes.

Edited March 12, 2012 by yoshiwara

[CalgaryII]

I think he offers a refreshing alternative view to the one prevalent here . . . and the fact that everyone is quite adamant in putting him down, or trying to, is testament to that

Refreshing is not quite the right word. The trouble with self-proclaimed political so-called junkies is that they forget that a junkie is someone who injects themselves with a poison that is going to eventually kill them and post-injection talk whatever rubbish will get them their next fix. A suitable description here of a wannabe Thaksin apologist. It is worth noting that for a number of Westerners, Thailand provides a perfect playground for their juvenile liberationist fantasies. They think they are on the left, but in their own countries generally run a mile from any serious socialist organisation. Having the opportunity to hitch their poor political understanding to an adventurist crook flirting with neo-fascism is sooo exciting. Not quite grown up posturing. And so it goes.

• I would argue we are all political junkies. It is a term of endearment. It is no fun talking politics when someone doesn't care in the least. And disagreement is essential to get ones jollies. Who wants to debate within a banal, uniform, group think environment.
  
• This is all the more enjoyable for me, with my perspective being definitely in the minority here, but nationally in the majority.
  
• Actually a 'wannabe Thaksin apologist' doesn't describe me at all. I object to misleading agenda driven characterizations, but he is not my primary interest. The discussion of Democracy vs. anti-Democratic practices such as coups are of interest, especially with those who have varying views on such a thing.
  
• Speaking of The Left" and other political spectrum things, suggesting that Thaksin is neo-fascist is ridiculous. Most discerning 'political junkies' would agree I think, that those behind the coup were far right to the extreme. PADite pronouncements always point to that, with their border adventurism being directly out of the Fascist playbook.
  

[yoshiwara]

A rather lame response but to be expected. The primary position of Thaksin apologists is never the defence of democracy. It is the defence of Thaksin. What arguments they use to defend him is secondary. What is clear is that the working classes of Thailand benefit little from the adventurist clowns hitching their political fantasies to a political crook who represents nothing other than a split in the Thai establishment (ruling class). Substituting a Thaksin image for one of Che is as far as their understanding goes. The odd thing is that this clown is crowding out all those forum contributors who used to claim that the struggle wasn't about Thaksin. Shot in the foot from your own side. Well done.

[whybother]

• I would argue we are all political junkies. It is a term of endearment. It is no fun talking politics when someone doesn't care in the least. And disagreement is essential to get ones jollies. Who wants to debate within a banal, uniform, group think environment.
  

<snip>

So your aim is to get disagreement just so you can get your jollies. That's pretty much the description of a troll.